Resistant to reading

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Nuovena	27 May 2003
Hello, I'm new to the forum and new to tarot as well. You can find my introduction in the new member file. The reason I've signed on is I'm having an issue with a personal reading I've done for myself. I've recently added a pendulum to my readings. Not intentionally - it just happened that I picked up a pendulum, it started moving in a new direction which led to tell me I needed to do a reading to find the answer. That's how the pendulum became a new tool/enhancement to tarot. I'm in a situation where in looking at it logically would tell me the obvious answer in what I need to do. The pendulum as well as the reading which ensued tells me otherwise. My question is, have you ever felt your gut instinct tell you what you needed to do but have the readings come up differently? If so, which path did you follow and were there consequences either way? Nuovena

HOLMES	27 May 2003
My question is, have you ever felt your gut instinct tell you what you needed to do but have the readings come up differently? If so, which path did you follow and were there consequences either way? Nuovena here is the case where one should stay true to their path, their heart and their soul. for the tarot is just a guide, a map to the universe, a teaching book but it isn't the .. what is the word.. forget the word here is the phrase :O) do not give your live over to the oracle. but instead take the message the reading give you and then follow your gut instinct . if the gut instinct turns out wrong, it is time to examine that gut instinct to ask yourself , was it really my instinct or was i coming from an ego part of myself that really wanted what i wanted. or if turns out why then the readings needs to be looked at in a new light (that is why many people keep records of their readings so if they interpated it wrong they come back and see where they went wrong. it can be much the same as annoting one own chess game and then analyising it for weakness and strenghts ) i noticed in this paragraph. quote I'm in a situation where in looking at it logically would tell me the obvious answer in what I need to do. The pendulum as well as the reading which ensued tells me otherwise. quote there is no mention of gut instinct but just logic. that is why we seek oracles to give us another view on a subject for sometimes our logic is based on what we want, just the facts we have which could be incomplete or blocked by emotions, which makes us come from a flaw logic. pratice and experience will help you get past this hurdle. :O)(and study, but study can get addicting eheh )

LittleWing	27 May 2003
i consult the oracle to give me logic - 'food for thought', - to go with my gut instinct. no matter what your gut instinct is - each card can be related in some way.

Aerin	27 May 2003
One way to check out your gut instinct is to throw a coin.... if you are happy with what the coin tells you, go with it if not, do the opposite. It strikes me that Tarot, while more sophisticated, needs to be used in the same way. I am of the school that doesn't like asking 'what should I do' questions, I usually rephrase as something like 'what do I need to know to make a decision about...'. That way I keep responsibility for my actions. Something else you might want to do is to post your question, spread and cards in the Readings forum, since other people may bring a different perspective to bear. Incidentally, beware of using 'just' logic - HOLMES is right, logic is not the same as gut instinct. Sometimes, if the 'logic' tells you something different than your heart (which may be the case here given your pendulum's reaction) then there is something else niggling you that you haven't yet been straight with yourself yet about, or else just haven't yet consciously realised. Try asking yourself 'if there were a good reason I should go a different way from what my logic tells me, then what would it be?' You may think you don't know, and that's fine: just pretend you do know and guess. Aerin

Nuovena	27 May 2003
My ego is not wanting of what I believe I need to do. I do not want to do it, yet I feel that if I do not there will be consequences. I do believe that it may be flaw in my logic. That being emotional baggage. Fear based logic. Perhaps the cards are telling me I'm worrying about the situation too much. Such as carrying over past negative experience with the attached negative emotions. Perhaps the cards are telling me to let go of the past and look at the present for what it is. Which may not be ideal, but can be managed without taking the action my fear based logic tells me I need to do. I did another reading, a five card spread asking what the consequences would be if I do not do what I think I need to do. Here is the outcome - tell me what you make of it. The question: Queen of Cups The backround: Two of Swords The seeker: The Moon The environment: The Hierophant The answer: 6 of Wands In the end, it appears once again that if I let go of the past, trust new intuition, trust in God, that it will be ok. I should also mention that on particular readings I cut the deck three times. These cards are used as the resident factors, underlying tones of the reading itself. These cards were: The Chariot 5 of Pentacles 7 of Wands The issue involves money (and love, perhaps not in the now.) It appears there may be struggles and challenge, but if I find a way to be savvy about the finances as I much as I can that it will work itself out. Dunno - I'm still sitting here with my fear based logic telling me it will not work itself out!!! The 5 of Pentacles sends shivers of fear up my spine as does the 7 of Wands! Perhaps I need to cut away the illusion of fear and face the challenge/question in a new light. Thank you for your insight. It's been helpful.

Khatruman	27 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Nuovena I've recently added a pendulum to my readings. Not intentionally - it just happened that I picked up a pendulum, it started moving in a new direction which led to tell me I needed to do a reading to find the answer. That's how the pendulum became a new tool/enhancement to tarot. I am going off on an issue tangiential to your inquiry, but I hope that it ties in somehow. It is just that this is the second time the issue of using a pendulum has come up, and I am really not sure of the details of scrying with a pendulum are. When I was growing up (wayyyyy back in the stone ages, as I tell my students), I bought a Kreskin ESP kit. I can't remember everything that was in there, but I do remember that it had cards with colors and shapes that you were supposed to have someone look at, think about, and you were to use ESP to determine what card it was. There was a friend of my sister who used to do it with me and we got scarily in sync after a while. Also, there was a pendulum with the kit. In fact it was glow in the dark!!! (ahhhh, marketing. :D) There was a board which had letters in a circle, kind of like a ouija board, and a way to do yes or no questions by asking it and seeing if the pendulum swung back and forth, one way for yes, another for no, or whether it went in circles, meaning the answer is maybe or unclear. I figured out that I could mentally control in what direction the pendulum swung. In fact, I could do it with any hanging device. I didn't at all move my fingers, it wasn't a cheat. I held it between two fingers as steadily as possible and concentrated on which direction I wanted it to go: back and forth, in circles, and even change direction while it was moving. This wasn't a superpower on my part because I taught other kids how to do it. So, if that is possible, isn't an answer from a pendulum simply telling you what you consciously or unconsciously will it to tell you?

Nuovena	27 May 2003
Ack! The third time I'm trying to post a reply! I'll try one more time... Firstly, thank you all for the replies. Lots to take into consideration as always. I'd like to address the pendulum question posed here. Here's the story behind it. I'd gone to an Oracle store in town looking for a pendulum. I tried the clear crystal and it wouldn't budge for me. My first thought was that it was not for me, or did not work as I'd been told. The salesgirl suggested a different stone as not all stones are meant for all people. I tried the rose quartz and it worked immediately. The pendulums movements: East/west is no, remaining centered is yes, circles are maybe's. One day I was asking it questions and it took a new direction > north/south. I had no idea what this meant. Was ready to hang up the hat on the pendulum altogether. I then looked up and realized my tarot deck was sitting in the position the pendulum was swinging towards. That's how I came to discover the pendulum as a tool towards tarot. I was being directed to it for the answer. This was all unintentional, a complete surprise. Without realizing it, the pendulum had been left with another option in regards to answer. There is now, yes, no, maybe and ask the tarot. In regards to whether or not the stone pendulum picks up our personal energies, I have no doubt it does. I do find though that it does not always tell you what you expect to hear despite your energies. I have come across two occasions when this has happened. In the first instance I could swear the answer was a gloomy yes, yet the pendulum insisted it was no. It then directed me to the tarot - which I yet again denied to be true. In the end, the pendulum and the tarot were both correct. The answer was no, it was not the gloomy yes answer I felt in my gut. The topic of this post was resistance to readings. It was the pendulum which initially gave me the answer, which was no. The question to the pendulum was, "Do I need a part time job?" My gut surely told me I did. My finances certainly said so! But it said no? So I asked the deck, the deck said it would turn out ok if I didn't get a part-time job. As it happens I don't think I need one. My job is offering OT which will carry me through the summer months. A little lean perhaps for what I'd like, but enuf. So there's the answer I guess to both of these questions. Can one resist a reading because logic and gut instinct tell them it can't be so? Yes! Can the pendulum surpass our energy and *not* give us the answers we believe to be true? Yes! Regarding the pendulum, I did a test. I asked my skeptical children to ask the pendulum a question and not tell me what it was. I likewise did not tell what direction meant what. The answers came up correct in each instance. While I do believe the crystal can move in the direction we will it to, I think that's only because it's validating what we already know - sometimes consciously, sometimes not. It appears though, that through the two examples where I have not known the outcome and believed in my gut that the answer was such and such, it did not give me the answer to correlate - it gave it's own. Which as it happens I resisted. I think I need to learn to trust more. Be guarded that it does not run my life, but trust just the same... Regards, Nuovena

Alex	27 May 2003
"should I kill myself"? Then do your throw and come back tell me that you rather follow the cards no matter what; or just tell me, you would *even* consider following the cards' advice. Pendulum. My doctor used a pendulum to choose from his homeopathic remedies, when prescribing for me, but as time passed, he started following his own gut. Sometimes, the pendulum was *seemingly* wrong_ so he said. I'm glad, cause I'm still alive and it was a life-threatening condition, or could become, with the wrong treatment. Alex.

HOLMES	27 May 2003
should I kill myself"? at first i thought to myself holy cow , then i thought to myself suppose a weak willed person asked that question ( not saying novena is weak willed , but i mean a beginner to tarot comes here, thinking that the tarot is the end all (some total beginnners do initially) and then i thought to myself it is the teacher who says you ready ? then here is the test, and the student walks away wondering why they failed the test . here the answer is there are certain questions to not ask the universe that we are our power and we shouldn't follow crazy questions and answers. an example of that is my freind asked the cards "is **** brown"when i was first starting , we were teenages. i said stop that and took the cards away from him. (it was just playing cards and we were using a psychic book , which included a chapter on playing cards ) plus i was mad at him for not having respect for the card all the while he was laughing his head off. so nice and blunt and direct alex :O) *gives disclaimer in no way am i endorsing asking that question ever to any beginning tarot people who have just arrived *

LittleWing	28 May 2003
when using tarot - or divination tools - we are still all responsible for the outcome. they enhance and inspire our thinking - do not be easily influenced - follow your gut instinct. even when you flip a coin - you proberbly still go with your gut instinct - that is why we get 'best of 3' etc - we know in our hearts what is right.

Nuovena	28 May 2003
Holmes wrote: " here is the case where one should stay true to their path, their heart and their soul. for the tarot is just a guide, a map to the universe, a teaching book but it isn't the .. what is the word.. forget the word here is the phrase :O) do not give your live over to the oracle." Thank you for this. This particular insight is invaluable. Likewise, other replies that are not quoted here. The reason I initially signed on to post is because the reading I'd done did not make sense to me - all logic and gut instinct said it was incorrect. Wet behind the ears or not, I came here to question it because I was not about to follow it's advice. It did however leave me to question the tarot's authenticity. It just happens that it appears to have worked out. Then again, what may be true today may not be tomorrow, eh? Holmes wrote: "here the answer is there are certain questions to not ask the universe that we are our power and we shouldn't follow crazy questions and answers." We are our power, aren't we? You're awesome! (I take the entirety of this quote) as a lesson in correlation with the quote above. As for being weak willed and needing the tarot to direct my life? Possibly. Possibly not. I am alone in the world, that I am. Tarot has been a gift and a blessing to me, like a mother inspiring, leading and guiding. Thank you again for the insightful, thoughtful replies, and even the blunt ones... :0) All necessary and well taken. This is humbly written, despite how the tone may appear. Then again, I just may be that gung-ho newbie I'm perceived to be without even realizing it. I'm sure I'll learn the hard way. Best, Nuovena

full deck	29 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HOLMES should I kill myself"? at first i thought to myself holy cow , then i thought to myself suppose a weak willed person asked that question ( not saying novena is weak willed , but i mean a beginner to tarot comes here, thinking that the tarot is the end all (some total beginnners do initially) and then i thought to myself it is the teacher who says you ready ? then here is the test, and the student walks away wondering why they failed the test . Word. Sometimes Tarot are living symbols that burn in the mind's eye, other times they are just slick-surfaced cards. The ability to know the difference is what is important and not to fixate upon formula as a substitute for discernment. As most know, there are several different ways to enter New York City and each is different but the important thing is to know you are *there* and not to wonder why it doesn't look, smell, taste the same as you remember from your last journey.

Alex	29 May 2003
There are several ways to get lost trying to enter New York City. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by full deck As most know, there are several different ways to enter New York City and each is different but the important thing is to know you are *there* and not to wonder why it doesn't look, smell, taste the same as you remember from your last journey.

DeLani	31 May 2003
I'd just like to chime in here about the way the question is worded. Anytime you ask the Tarot (or whatever) "should I" do whatever, you are releasing your self from responsibility. Well, yes, maybe you "should," so that you can crash and burn and learn to listen to your gut instead of the cards... Better to ask for information so you can make a better choice. Blessings!

Nuovena	31 May 2003
Pretty soon these broomsticks are going to broom me to the curb! Thanks DeLani and all... :0)

The Resistant to reading thread was originally posted on 27 May 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.