Story minors, your opinions?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

C.N.	08 May 2003
What is your opinions about decks with story minors, for example Ancestral Path and Mythic Tarot decks. Myself I don't like them, I feel that the stories most often don't work and restrict the design of the cards, making the deck worse than it should be.

HOLMES	08 May 2003
What is your opinions about decks with story minors, for example Ancestral Path and Mythic Tarot decks. Myself I don't like them, I feel that the stories most often don't work and restrict the design of the cards, making the deck worse than it should be. i don't know the background of the story behind the ancrestral path. it is a matter of taste i love illustrated tarot pips, some don't . i think it is a mental block that the deck doens't work due to the story. how i do is i use "traditional " bah , i use my meanins i learned along the way to learn and understand the tarot, the picture is for me a way to understand the minors on a differnt level. or if i get stuck trying to associate the tarot with accepted meanings(accepted by who i don't know lol ) and getting no where.. i like the fact that i can rely on a story behind the cards to help me out . or if that doens't work then i look at the symbols themselves, and if that doens't work, i try a differnt deck (but almost all my decks have a pictureral minors which lend themselves to "stories:) and finally i say i just can't read for you today i am getting nothing sorry , but the pictures help me as a tarot reader rather then hinder me.

C.N.	08 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HOLMES it is a matter of taste i love illustrated tarot pips, some don't . I think that there has been a misunderstanding, so I have to clarify myself. I didn't mean illustrated or not when I wrote story minors, I meant decks where the sequence between 1 and 10 of a suit is supposed to tell a story.

Lee	08 May 2003
One of my favorite decks is Mythic Tarot, but I can't use it, for the reason you mention. I find the stories for the minors get in the way when I try to read with them. -- Lee

HOLMES	08 May 2003
in using the ancestral path tarot it is clear it must be a story for me when using all the decks as it shows the same character (thinking of the england minors ) and i guess it helps me. but i never really looked at the story line behind it as i never got the book for that deck. so i can see where you are coming from. question c.n. to me the minors in the rider waite are story like, do you feel that is so, and do you find any trouble using the rider waite and clones. ? i think that is why the thoth works so well for others there isn't the story of the picture to hinder them. while i need a picture to convey a story . it especialy helps on when i build a reading based using the first card as a foundation. and is there any storied minors that work ?

Mimers	08 May 2003
Hello CN, I don't think we have 'met'. Welcome to Aeclectic. If you posted in new members, I apologize for missing your thread. Hmmm, I have never given this much thought, but I can see what you speak of. My favorite decks to read with don't have story PIPs so maybe this does affect me. I do have Ancestral Path, though not for very long. I really love this deck and I have done readings with it, but not many. I must say that I did not feel any problems reading with it. It is not, however, my primary reading deck. I also have the Mythic tarot. My Mom just picked it up for me the other day at a church tag sale. I did a reading for her with it which went very well, but I must admit that I could tell there were stories there that I don't know. I did what Holmes did and went with the numerological and suit meanings. I did pull from some of the symbolism in the cards, but I still felt that I was missing something. The deck she found did have the book, which I will read if anything to enjoy the stories. In general, I am finding that I prefer to read with unillustrated, or partially illustrated decks for a number of reasons. One being that in these decks the Majors that come out in the spread stand out more as well they should. The deck I read most often with is the Gill Tarot. Close second would be the Vision Quest Tarot. CN and Holmes, do you have a particular deck you feel most comfortable reading with? Take Care, Mimi Mimers

C.N.	08 May 2003
Holmes, Mimers, I don't have any trouble with the standard RWS-type decks and I don't feel that they have a seqential story (different people on each card). For reading, I prefer Osho Zen mainly, but Robin Wood, Hanson-Roberts, Rider-Waite and The Arthurian also works for me. I also have Ancient Egyptian, Thoth and Stairs of Gold decks for their art but I haven't taken time to learn to read with them yet. I had a larger collection earlier, but I have given away most of the decks I didn't like. I'm not new here I only have been busy and haven't had time for the forums. It is over a year since I registered, but thanks for the welcome.

HOLMES	08 May 2003
since it was asked, the rider waite system and clones. and when i opened it, the olmpus tarot that tarot is just so beutiful :O) cn, when i come to the forums i do new posts that way i don't have to look at all the forums and i keep up on the latest. i think that if you dont' come for a few days all the new posts save up for you. for once i came i had like 10 pages and i remember thinking holy cow people posted a lot today . the 78 degrees book when using the suits backwards from 10 to one makes a good sequental story ,, well may not sequential but a nice flowing overall story :O)

Astraea	08 May 2003
Ancestral Path is my favorite deck and the story-line running through the minors has actually helped me to understand certain cards better than I might have otherwise -- but this is an exception. In my experience, the stories that go along with the minors in some decks are infuriating, limiting and can even spoil the deck for me.

Keslynn	09 May 2003
I believe the Art Nouveau tarot (the Myers? one) has storyline pips as well. Unfortunately, I haven't really had the chance to read with this deck much so I can't really say if it would get in my way. However, I do have some problems reading with the Ancestral Path although I love the artwork. Still, I think I could work with it if I let go and read more intuitively. That's what I've been trying to do so I might start to work with that deck more often. :) Kes

truthsayer	09 May 2003
i moved this thread to talking tarot b/c i believe it'll be more appropriate for that section. sorry, i'm running a tad late on this action but i've been burning the candle at both ends lately.

jamesriouxctm	10 May 2003
Hello all, Even in decks where the story told by the suits is not obvious in the imagery, or narrated by the author in an accompanying book, it's my opinion that there is still a story there, if we look for it, and that this story can be helpful in understanding the card meanings. As many of you are probably aware I am currently writing a novel-length book containing 78 chapters which are based on the cards of the Rider-Waite and its close relatives. This feat would not be possible (or, at least, would be considerably more difficult than it has turned out to be) if the cards did not relate to one another in some discernable way. But even a deck which is not based on the Rider-Waite (the first examples that come to my mind are Thoth, Osho Zen and the Witches Tarot) can still be used to form such stories. It might take a little more imagination but it can still be done, and it can yield fabulous insights into the nature of the individual cards. This does not mean that you have to treat the cards as if there is an overall story linking them. It simply means that you are free to do so if you wish, with any kind of deck whatsoever assuming it has illustrated pips, of course). There are also ties that bind together all of the Major Arcana, though certainly not of the same type as those found in the suits. To use an obscenely bad pun, that's another story entirely.

Rusty Neon	10 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jamesriouxctm This does not mean that you have to treat the cards as if there is an overall story linking them. It simply means that you are free to do so if you wish, with any kind of deck whatsoever assuming it has illustrated pips, of course). You can also do so with unillustrated pips (especially "unillustrated" pips with random pictorial symbolism like the pips in the Tarot de Marseille), but it obviously is more difficult.

felicityk	10 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jamesriouxctm Even in decks where the story told by the suits is not obvious in the imagery, or narrated by the author in an accompanying book, it's my opinion that there is still a story there, if we look for it, and that this story can be helpful in understanding the card meanings. I wanted to point out that according to the first volume of Kaplan's Encyclopedia of Tarot, the Rider-Waite minors do tell a story, in reverse order from 10 to 2. The story of the suit of swords is explained on p 272. I can type it in later, but I don't have time right now. Felicity

Fulgour	05 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by jamesriouxctm As many of you are probably aware I am currently writing a novel-length book containing 78 chapters which are based on the cards of the Rider-Waite and its close relatives. This feat would not be possible (or, at least, would be considerably more difficult than it has turned out to be) if the cards did not relate to one another in some discernable way. searching the web there is only: "Realm of the Black Shadow - James Rioux's speculative fiction, short stories and essays. The complete 'Confederate' series of novels are available to read online. He also has an introduction to the Tarot and to the casting and reading of Runes." Canadian Arts & Entertainment

Little Baron	05 Sep 2004
I have the Matt Myers deck and the problem I have with it is those minor cards. There are stories that work through each of the four suits; each suit having a set of characters. I may be wrong, as my memory of the deck is not that great, but in the Coins/Pentacle suit, the story is based around a couple making the coin - the troubles and successes that they encounter. When I bought this deck, I thought that it would be a great 'roundabout' way to learn the cards, but infact, it was more of a distraction. The stories are okay if they relate to the question - cups for emotional issues, coins for questions relating to work and finance, but when they pop up in a spread regarding something else, it is difficult to apply their strong meanings to what you are trying to seek an answer about. I find the minors in this deck very limiting. It is hard to pull anything other than the obvious story connection from them, for me. I also feel the same about the Winged Spirit deck which also has the same characters weaving through its minors. Even though there is a connection between all of the cards, I prefer decks that have minor cards that can equally stand alone. Hopefully, I have got the right end of the stick with this question, C.N. Best wishes Yaboot

Cerulean	05 Sep 2004
I'm going to post a new thread in the RWS forum. There's a summary of storylines, although I do not know where the original stories came from...but I'll post it to the study group there and inquire from someone that might have some information. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30855 Thanks! Cerulean

Ace	05 Sep 2004
Thank you Cerulean for posting that quote from Stuart Kaplan, I never knew there was a special story to the RWS, especially a 10 to Ace story! I believe I had was vaguely aware of a story line with each suite of the Ancestral Path, but I just ignored it. I find they get in the way of the reading and of the art (in the case of the Mythic). When I first learned the tarot, it was suggested I lay them out in rows and make up stories about them to get to know they and start figuring out what the cards mean to me. (I just suggested the same to a newby a week ago!) but I don't really care if they have a special story attached to them, I think if I thought about it, it would keep me from reading well with them.

The Story minors, your opinions? thread was originally posted on 08 May 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.