117- year old tarot on ebay
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| sirona86 |
25 Jun 2003 |
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just a little link i thought might be of interest
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2180541465&category=1438
the deck is called the viassone tarot and according to the seller it was published around 1885. some of the cards shown include, the fool, the emperor, the hermit, temperance and the sun. not sure about the authenticity of the cards though..
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| Red Emma |
25 Jun 2003 |
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Thanks for the link, Sirona. It's a fascinating glimpse into the past of our passion.
My husband wants to know whether it would give me any better news than the decks I have. (tongue-in-cheek)
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| baba-prague |
25 Jun 2003 |
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Yes, I saw this too. I couldn't buy it in any case, but I suppose anyone seriously interested could check the tax stamp. Kaplan has a section on tax stamps (that gives dates) in, I think, Volume II.
I do know that tax stamps tend to be used for quite a long time so they can usually only provide a rough date. We have four Bohemian decks (32-card playing cards - very interesting in terms of symbolism) with WWII tax stamps on them - but that's particularly easy to identify as the WWII stamps here were very distinctive.
It's a very interesting deck, but I'd also be a little wary about just how old it is - then again, as I can't afford it (and to be honest, if I had this sort of money to spend it's the Minotarot I'd want), why worry!
Thanks for starting this thread. It is really good to see these rare old decks.
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| SingingTarot |
25 Jun 2003 |
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*passed out on the floor*
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| Gerbear |
25 Jun 2003 |
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The seller has many old, historical tarot items. He will authenticate it for you and answer any of your questions. His personal collection has over 800 decks. He is somewhat of a scholar and I would recommend him highly. This particular item is a bit out of my range though - alright it's WAY out of my range, probably always will be.LOL
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| Gerbear |
26 Jun 2003 |
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This is the Pier Canosa Tarot, limited to 1000 copies. It is in stock at the Tarotgarden for $350!! One of the most desired of the high-end art decks. This artist also produced the much less exspensive Genovesi Tarot which will be in my hands soon!!
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| Alobar |
26 Jun 2003 |
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tax stamp and reputation notwithstanding , i would still want some kind of provenance for that kind of investment.
i found it interesting that the Justice card is #8!
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| jmd |
26 Jun 2003 |
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The Justice card was interchanged with the Strength card only beginning with the Waite/Colman-Smith deck... an interchange which has certainly stirred things to say the least.
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| Diana |
26 Jun 2003 |
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Alobar: I have never understood how Justice can be anything else but 8.
Numerologically speaking, 8 represents Justice (amongst other things). It is action and reaction. It represents Cosmic equilibrium (circulation of energies). It's the number that represents Karma.
All one needs to do is to look at an 8 to see this..... Even just visually.
I sometimes wonder what Waite was actually trying to prove when he changed the Strength and Justice card around. I understand it was to re-arrange the cards to suit the astrological signs. But why was he so keen to do that? Why couldn't he leave astrology to astrologers and leave Tarot up to tarologues.
He and I would not have got on at all. I don't think I would have invited him round for tea on Sundays.
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| Major Tom |
26 Jun 2003 |
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Originally posted by Diana
I have never understood how Justice can be anything else but 8.
In common with Anglo/American tradition - Mr Waite provided me with a foundation in tarot that was available in English.
Nonetheless, the more I learn about tarot, the more convinced I am that Justice should be 8. It just seems to work that way in practical applications - soul, personality, key, shadow or year cards for example. I'm going to have to change it in Major Tom's Tarot. :laugh:
Mr Waite always avoided saying why he made the switch. I think his motivation may have been to protect. The Golden Dawn were certainly aware that Justice is 8. Was he protecting the knowledge do you think or the world from people who might misuse that knowledge? })
I reckon he must have slurpped his tea. ;)
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| Diana |
26 Jun 2003 |
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Originally posted by Major Tom
I reckon he must have slurpped his tea. ;)
Aha!!! Major Tom, you live in England. Do the English like to put a dash of alcohol in their tea on the sly?
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| jmd |
26 Jun 2003 |
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It's probably about time that I take time to enter one of the papers Waite wrote on Tarot (one of his less verbose papers), just to show how well read he actually was. Like Major Tom, I agree that Waite has provided much of the material which enabled Tarot to be further investigated (as he also did, incidentally, for Kabbalah and Freemasonry especially).
For what it's worth, and though Waite doesn't directly say that Justice and Strength are swapped because of Astrological considerations based on Hebrew letter associations, he does say sufficiently in various places to not leave this in doubt.... but this does seem to be becoming off-topic.
Would but I be in the position to bid!
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| baba-prague |
26 Jun 2003 |
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This is perhaps getting off-thread too, but I've been reading Kathleen Raine's book on Yeats and the Tarot (before everyone says "Where on earth did you get it?" I should say I was extremely fortunate as a very kind person swopped it for a copy of our deck)
and it DOES bring home the sheer amount of learning that Yeats had. Yes, I know it's perfectly obvious that he was hugely well-read, but it's enlightening to know that he used a Marseilles-type deck himself and seems to have known a great deal about it.
BTW, maybe it's worth explaining that it was almost certainly W.B. Yeats who was the "advisor" that Waites refers to in his writing (Yeats was prominent in the Golden Dawn). It was also almost certainly Yeats who designed the Celtic Cross spread. I find it very apt to know that it was designed by a poet (and a brilliant one at that).
JMD - if it's ever of help to have a summary of that book I'm willing to try to produce one. It's definitely essential reading for anyone interested in RWS history - and also in Celtic esoterica.
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| jmd |
26 Jun 2003 |
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... given that I know you're pretty busy with your deck coming out, I'm quite willing to just receive the book and summarise it - would this make things easier for you (I'm just trying to be of help, honest :)).
But seriously, a thread with a description of the book (in the Tarot Books section), and maybe a review of the book for the main part of the site (submitted to Solandia) would be a great resource for us all!
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| Major Tom |
26 Jun 2003 |
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Originally posted by jmd
For what it's worth, and though Waite doesn't directly say that Justice and Strength are swapped because of Astrological considerations based on Hebrew letter associations, he does say sufficiently in various places to not leave this in doubt....
I'll grant this - but he never says it directly. P.F. Case makes a better case for the switch. :laugh: And in some ways the switch does make some sense - hence it's longevity in our thinking.
Nonetheless, I demand a bid! Justice should be 8! })
And to attempt to deftly turn this back to the subject at hand, this particular 117 year old deck shows Justice as it was always numbered before Mr Waite appeared on the scene.
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| DarkElectric |
28 Jun 2003 |
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It's been my understanding that the Golden Dawn and offshoots thereof purposely did the bait and switch with their tarot, as well as other esoteric tracts because they were so freaked out about "The Uninitiated" getting into their stuff. They wanted to make sure that if some average Joe were to ever stumble across anything, it wouldn't be any use to them at all.
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The 117- year old tarot on ebay thread was originally posted on 25 Jun 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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