intuition vs tradition

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

anjocoxo	02 Jun 2003
I sometimes go to another tarot forum, and on the other day we were talking about court cards, because one of the members was having some difficulties with them.... I said that I took all the court cards from my decks, because they mean nothing to me. It's not that they're difficult to read or something, I just couldn't get the "vibes" out of them. From the moment I took them out, I felt a lightness, and that old enthusiastic feeling came back to me. Well, after I wrote this, some other members fell down on me; that this way it wasn't really a tarot deck, so I wasn't really reading tarot, that if it has 78 cards we have to read them all, bla,bla,bla. Now, according to my opinion, tarot is all about intuition. You know the meaning of a card, for instance, but on one reading you look at it and you think about something completely different... follow your intuition... so, if my intuition tells me to take out the court cards, am I right doing so? Or am I actually "destroying" tarot? Wanna hear some opinions about this, what do you think? I'm not saying that everybody should take out the cards they don't like (this way no deck would have the 3 of swords :D ), but shouldn't we feel at ease with our decks? Are there really strickt rules? Anjo

zorya	02 Jun 2003
there are tarot decks that are nothing but the majors! do what feels right to you anjocoxo. when you use intuition, then the tarot is just a tool or key anyway. if the reason someone doesn't use courts is because they find them confusing. then i would suggest really getting to know them. but you've said that wasn't it, in your case :)

jema	02 Jun 2003
yes and no, but the main thing is - does it really matter? For me tarot is about tradition, the cards have meanings that are more of less common for a lot of readers. inuition is good too but it comes in at a later point. for me to be able to read the tarot I must first know the cards and then I am free to do with that knowledge as I please. but if I pay no attention at all to the "generally accepted" meanings, or to the symbols on the cards I could just as well use birch-leaves or used matches. it is a bit like a language. to write poetry you need to really know the language, only when you know it and really feel it in your heart and soul can you break the rules. to remove the courts is to strip the deck, to make it something else. so yes, I have to agree with the person who told you that it was not really tarot anymore - but yet again - does it matter what you call it? or what someone else calls it? does it work? if it does then good for you:) no one can tell you that what you do is wrong. but at the same time we cannot claim that someone else is wrong in having an opinion about just what the tarot deck is. a question to you: if someone reads a deck of playing cards - is that still tarot? if someone took a marsielle deck and removed all majors - is that tarot? what makes something tarot? (i am not looking for answers here just want you to think about it a while) for me it is 78 cards, 22 majors and 56 minors with 16 courts. for you it might be something else.

allibee	02 Jun 2003
and some people use playing cards with no majors at all. Have to agree with Zorya about the cards, they are just signposts anyway. I too would be interested in why you get confused by them though. Could the Aeclectic help to unconfuse you? Let us know :O) A.

Umbrae	02 Jun 2003
I too have visited other Tarot Forums. One in particular comes to mind, where the moderators ALWAYS have to have the last word – as they ARE the worlds foremost authorities…and woe unto those who disagree with them. I was told that because I ignored history (I asked if they were ‘locked’ into pre or post Golden Dawn interpretations) I had no business using Tarot. If your intuition tells you to toss the court cards, toss the court cards. THEY most likely read by memorizing little paragraphs and mimicking other readers. They are not readers…they are parrots. There is no speed limit on the divination highway – pull over for no police. I would go back to that web-site and tell them that they are ignorant parrots, frauds… I suppose if I toss one card out of a deck of Soul Cards they have no soul?

Sobeknofret	02 Jun 2003
Chuck tradition and go for intuition. You've paid a higher price for your intuition and it's worth more anyway in this case. --Sobe

lawguy51	02 Jun 2003
If you are satisfied with your readings, then what difference does it make. You always pull the right cards, that's my take on things. So if the court cards aren't there, well, the right cards will get pulled anyway. But may I suggest you take a look at the Thoth deck's court cards because until I did, I too had little connection with court cards. Now they are all my little friends! The Thoth court cards are the best!! Evocative, beautiful, individualistic, loaded with symbols and colours and shades of meaning. Check them out...and here's where: http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/Crowley/thoth/mainnav.html Lawguy51

Tor	02 Jun 2003
Tarot is just a tool for the intuition. By the way - other tarot forums??????? ;) Guess I'm a steady partner and just stick to AT :D

sagitarian	02 Jun 2003
I had a deck once that shedded the death card. Then again, the way I look at the death card was change, and well, we are ALWAYS changing, so what's the point in making this significant? The deck itself "lost" the card, I didn't purposely throw it out, in any case, my views on the death card has changed, and I now find a very good reason in it staying with the deck. In any case, if it doesn't feel right to you, then don't do it. I commonly make up my own spreads (at the time of the reading) b/c of intuition tells me, no set up the cards this way instead this time. I then answer myself back internally by saying oooooooook, if you say so, and just go with it. In any case, do what you feel is right, follow your intuition, not what other people say which is nothing mroe then them sharing their personalized intuitive interpretations, relations, or information about this.

Alex	02 Jun 2003
where the moderator has to have the last word, always. Some lady who thinks of herself as the ultimate authority in Tarot readings ... very aggressive towards any new insigth. No wonder her forum has about 10 subscribers only. Alex.

Trogon	03 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alex where the moderator has to have the last word, always. Some lady who thinks of herself as the ultimate authority in Tarot readings ... very aggressive towards any new insigth. No wonder her forum has about 10 subscribers only. Sounds more like she has 10 followers. I wouldn't call that a forum for open and free discussion of all things Tarot. But that's okay, if it works for them, then fine. Anyway... I'll have to cast my vote with the rest of the responders here. Once you have reached a point in your Tarot journey where you feel you're better off without the court cards (at least in the deck you're currently using) - then leave them out. You may find another deck sometime where the court cards do belong... then you'll use them with that deck. There is much to be said for studying and having at least a basic understanding of the tradition and history of Tarot. By the same token, there are many reasons for learning the "traditional" meanings of the individual cards. It gives us a base from which to work in developing our own intuition and insight into the Tarot. But, not everyone learns in the same way and not everyone uses the Tarot in exactly the same way - how boring would the Aeclectic Tarot Forums if this were the case? Basically, do what works best for you...

anjocoxo	03 Jun 2003
well, it's not that I think court cards too difficult to read with, it's just a gut feeling... when I speak about this I always remember those readers who feel shills (sp?) down their spine when they take the first look at Thoth... I'm not scared of court cards or anything, they just... don't fit, I think that there's isn't one final truth in tarot, and there are many different readers; some tarot readers only read with the major arcana... By the way, this does not mean that I will never pick the court cards again; maybe one day I'll get back to them, but I have to "feel" them calling me (sorry if I seem crazy...) Anjo thanks a lot for your answers... and the ohter forum moderator keeps telling me "she/he is only looking for the truth"

Alissa	03 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by anjocoxo Now, according to my opinion, tarot is all about intuition. You know the meaning of a card, for instance, but on one reading you look at it and you think about something completely different... follow your intuition... so, if my intuition tells me to take out the court cards, am I right doing so? Or am I actually "destroying" tarot? Wanna hear some opinions about this, what do you think? I'm not saying that everybody should take out the cards they don't like (this way no deck would have the 3 of swords :D ), but shouldn't we feel at ease with our decks? Are there really strickt rules? Anjo, reading this post reminded me strongly of the first post I ever posted here which was regarding my own Tarot "conflict of faith". http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6390 I received such fabulous advice that I think it's absolutely applicable here. Following your intuition should take precedence when reading ... even when that seems wacky. Just do it. So you throw out the court cards, who cares? It's YOUR deck, right? Believing in what feels right to you, internally, and following that course is far more important in the long run when reading, IMHO ;). You're doing just fine ... the water feels a little deep, I'm sure, but you're fine! Ignore those who say otherwise (and watch how many sink when they hit deep waters themselves and aren't prepared for it).

The intuition vs tradition thread was originally posted on 02 Jun 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.