Party girl vs. Bring home to Mom girl

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

divinerguy	23 Jun 2003
There are girls you date for fun, and then, there are the girls you bring home to meet your mother. If the same holds true for Tarot cards .... The Princess of Wands is my party girl. Energetic, rebellious and a passionate lover. Yeah, baby, you're all right. The take home to Momma girl is the Star, with her hope and trust, or the Empress, a very good mother type for the 19 children I plan to have with her. What do you think?

Indigo_lady	23 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy a very good mother type for the 19 children I plan to have with her. how obvious is it that you're not the one giving birth... I think that sounds more like a Xerox machine :-p

allibee	23 Jun 2003
I actually see the bring home to mamma girl as Temperance .... all around martini. Well blended. btw, the Tshirt I'm wearing says "I'm the girl your mother warned you about", LOL. Now, what would call her? Chariot? LOL A.

Mimers	23 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Indigo_lady how obvious is it that you're not the one giving birth... I think that sounds more like a Xerox machine :-p I am laughing histerically right now!!!! You go Girl! Divinerguy, do you know what it feels like to birth a child?? It feels like you are........ Nevermind. I can be both. I know when to behave :) and I know when to be naughty }). Best of both worlds.

cricket	23 Jun 2003
*mumbles someting about watermelons and lemons... pauses a moment for thought, then adds something about lemons and peas* ;) :D })

Mimers	23 Jun 2003
Hi Crickett! How are your beautiful little girls!? And how is Mommy feeling? Back to your old self yet?

cricket	23 Jun 2003
The little girls are doing wonderfully! (Right along with the one little boy. ;) ) Mommy is a bit confused over some dreams, coming off the antidepressants prescriped when the postpartum hooptie-hoo set in, and not looking forward to losing these few pounds, but has decided that life's way too short to lose any sleep over all that stuff. Besides, it's summer! *laughs*

emily2otters	23 Jun 2003
queen of cups and pents you also can take home to your mother. unless you're a woman and your mother is a bigot, in which case, you're running a certain risk taking _any_ girl home. my mother would disapprove of a page or knight of swords more than any other court cards, i think.

Dark Inquisitor	24 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy There are girls you date for fun, and then, there are the girls you bring home to meet your mother. What do you think? Oh dear. I can only hope in your next life, you will be female ! Tarotphelia

Cerulean	24 Jun 2003
one night is the High Priestess the next day (what is in that book she's reading?) Is there a tail behind the chair peeking out of the Tarot of the New Vision? Mama likes...(?)

jog1118	24 Jun 2003
DEFINITELY...LOVERS :smoker:

LittleWing	24 Jun 2003
hmmmmmm ......... well my mother told me ...... i was the kind of girl that men wanted to 'date', 'have fun with', ..... rather than marry. i don't see why!!! i see myself as a mix of temperance and the queen of pentacles ..... (with a little of the devil, and wands!!) - now is that not a good catch?!

firemaiden	24 Jun 2003
I don't really know about the Princess of Wands really being a great partier. I think she might prefer just to have an audience. If too many other people are talking and she can't be heard, she might leave sullking...

Trogon	24 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by emily2otters queen of cups and pents you also can take home to your mother. unless you're a woman and your mother is a bigot, in which case, you're running a certain risk taking _any_ girl home. ROFLMAO Emily!!!! I don't reckon I'd better be bringing any girls home to my mother either... she'd almost certainly tell my wife!! :eek: However... those things aside... :D I lean towards the High Priestess... she knows "things" that other women don't... ;) And... I would think she would know how to impress "mom" too...

rota	24 Jun 2003
Queen of Pents: who wouldn't think twice about a rich girl? Queen of Cups: I like things that runneth over. High Priestess: what's not to like about a little Hidden Wisdom? Empress: oh, baby...! Temperance: an androgyne who can cook? or even Death and the Devil: a little goth never hurts... ;) The girl I'd want to 'bring home to mama' should have aspects of all those cards. If I'm going to have a wife, she's gotta be playing with a full deck!

Teranar	24 Jun 2003
I bring the partying girls home to meet my parents anyway. }) Usually I worry about meeting HER parents. The last girl's parents I met told her "I think he looks gay. He's gay. I think you should stay away from him and not speak to him." She ran away 6 months later and is currently living in Idaho, but since that unsettling encounter, I've been hesatant about meeting anyone's parents, even if we're just friends and going to stay that way.

oliveoil	24 Jun 2003
I think you are not ready for marriage...and if you think you are, then you will marry the Empress (who in my opinion is a very passionate woman in her own right, and not just a baby machine), and cheat on her with - well take your pick. BUT, do you believe that there are men that women date and those that they marry - and where do you fit into that characterization? Excuse me, but I think that is arrogant and rather insulting - and speaks to the whole Madonna v. Whore crap us women have to contend with. One should seek balance! I would never date or marry a man who could be simply understood by one element. My fiance is a combination of the King of Swords, the King of Pentacles and the Page of Cups and I couldn't be happier!

SingingTarot	24 Jun 2003
Well said Oliveoil! Couldn't agree more! It's hilarious to view women like that!! Thank Heavens, we don't have to make a choice between being fun, passionate, with a personality or being a walking uterus with cooking and cleaning skills! Good Luck Divineryguy! Alice My Big Fat Greek Wedding: "We, Greek women, are lambs in the kitchen and tigers in the bedroom"

Baby Owl	24 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by oliveoil I think you are not ready for marriage... That's an understatement! Quote: ...and if you think you are, then you will marry the Empress (who in my opinion is a very passionate woman in her own right, and not just a baby machine), and cheat on her with - well take your pick. BUT, do you believe that there are men that women date and those that they marry - and where do you fit into that characterization? Excuse me, but I think that is arrogant and rather insulting - and speaks to the whole Madonna v. Whore crap us women have to contend with... I'm with you, oliveoil. This was my reaction to the initial post, but I figured anyone who would make that post would not "get" what was offensive about it even if someone explained...It makes me furious when I think that someone can be labeled "party girl" and thereby automatically placed in the "reject" bin for a long-term, serious relationship. If she doesn't want the long-term relationship, that's fine, but no one else has the right to categorize her. Baby Owl

cricket	24 Jun 2003
um... Would this be the wrong time to point out that this is supposed to be a light-hearted and JOKING thread?

Baby Owl	24 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by cricket um... Would this be the wrong time to point out that this is supposed to be a light-hearted and JOKING thread? I guess we each find humor in different things.

cricket	24 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Baby Owl I guess we each find humor in different things. I guess so. Though I'll be the first to admit that, if the mood were wrong, it would have struck me as being very wrong as well. Not trying to lay any blame on anybody, or to make anybody feel bad or anything, just for the record... Just trying to break the tension that was building.

Indigo_lady	25 Jun 2003
Seriously lighten up Part of wisdom and maturity is to recognise and know what battles to fight and in my opinion this couldn't be further away from a reason to start one in any case, there are ways and WAYS of saying things and I personally don't see anything wrong with the thread divinerguy ;) Teranar, by the way... I feel your pain for some odd reason every time I bring a guy home at most 3 days after my parents are asking me if I'm sure they're not gay It's a damn uncomfortable situation, because you're not only doubting your guy, but you're asking yourself "so what if he's really gay, what is wrong with me that I attract gay men?" besides of course the whole "my parents won't accept him" issue... (and if they're like mine, WILL NOT let the issue go) and the inevitable "are they right???" see.. that's why I've decided to stop bringing guys home until I hopefully meet *the one* (now, since *offending* seems to be in the air, nobody go taking charge against me... it has happened to me at leats once that I've had a guy asked me out to later find out it was an attempt to pretend they're straight, but that has more to do with their sense of self worth and personal issues) but don't let that put you off from moving on and developing a healthy and loveable relationship ... hummm... maybe now I should put a post to finally answer the original question girl to take home to mom? as in a girl to settle down... Well I guess it depends on YOUR personal taste of course but I guess tradition would definetely say that Queen of Pentacles and Empress are probably the quintessential homemakers... And mom wouldn't be able to find faults in them for her beloved son, right????? ;)

divinerguy	25 Jun 2003
I'm sorry you took offense, and I promise not to post any more messages that could be construed as "madonna-whorish" in nature. Please let me know if I say anything else which is politically incorrect.

anjocoxo	25 Jun 2003
Oh, well, I haven't had a laugh for a long time as I had with this thread. Offenses apart, I just loved some of the answers given here... keep up the good spirits. hummm... woman to party... de Devil, of course, but then you'll get stuck to her for the rest of your life, even if she cheats on you and you know it.. LOL woman to show your mother... ahhh, the lovely empress, so "motherish" and tender... actually, she's just LIKE your mother... so, you better run for the Queens, who are more independant, and you have for every taste: sensitive (cups); fierce (wands); a bit cold, but inteligent (swords); and rich (pentacles)... in that case, pick one. And later tell us which one is better ;) Anjo (ROFLMAO)

Ruby7	25 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy I'm sorry you took offense, and I promise not to post any more messages that could be construed as "madonna-whorish" in nature. Please let me know if I say anything else which is politically incorrect. Hey divinerguy I think that we can all be a bit to serious sometimes about these issues. Your post was meant in a light hearted manner and a lot of people seem to have enjoyed it, myself included. But that doesn't mean that I like women being split into these two very limited categories. Why can't a women be both??!! Divinerguy, I'm assuming the best of you that you are a decent guy who likes women and thought it would be interesting to explore different aspects of the female tarot cards in a humerous way. I've enjoyed many of your humerous posts, keep posting! Ruby7

Baby Owl	25 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Indigo_lady Seriously lighten up. Part of wisdom and maturity is to recognise and know what battles to fight and in my opinion this couldn't be further away from a reason to start one. I give up. You win. Enjoy the thread. (But I still agree with oliveoil.) :)

oliveoil	25 Jun 2003
The beauty of the Internet, is that the whole thing is a battle field. Unlike, the real world, where one must edit or disguise what they say or think - anything goes on the Internet. Which means, that I can be dramatic and opinionated, and others can be light-hearted and jovial, and what we should walk away with from all this is to learn how to pay attention to the reactions people invoke in us, and to feel the freedom to say whatever we want, because we don't have that freedom in 3-D - which should hopefully allow us to develop a greater understanding of ourselves and the world...and which, should lead all of us, ultimately, to be much better TAROT READERS. And as I type this. I am smiling...come on - it's fun, not that serious!

Diana	25 Jun 2003
divinerguy: I thought your post was very funny. As I'm a married woman, I found it a bit hard to answer it though.... I asked my husband whether I was the kind of woman he wanted to bring home to Mom. He reminded me of the looks I got from his family when he introduced me to them! :) Must have been the Devil incarnate for them. Please please don't stop your politically incorrect posts. My favourite TV show by a long run is South Park because they are SO politically incorrect. (They haven't mocked Tarot yet, but if they do, I will be the first to laugh....).

Diana	25 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by oliveoil The beauty of the Internet, is that the whole thing is a battle field. Good lord........ Now I understand why I have all that barbed wire under my table. *Off to see if there are any good bargains on second-hand bazookas. I'm also running out of hand grenades. See you later.*

raeanne	25 Jun 2003
Hi all, Wouldn't the whore be an archtype? Seems to me it would be. Is there a male negative archtype that would be a counterpart to the whore? I'm not talking about a gigolo, but a male who is unfit to marry? Scoundral isn't the word. Neither is "bad boy". Both of these still have a somewhat sexually desirable quality to them. Remember in the original Star Wars when Princess Leia called Han Solo a scoundral? He took it as a compliment! There has to be a word for a male who is too "dirty" to marry and something that no man would want to be called. Hhhmmm. Anyone?

Indigo_lady	25 Jun 2003
Doesn't she eventually end up with Han???? so much for a scoundral...

Teranar	26 Jun 2003
I have friends who call men who are like whores a 'man whore'.

WolfSpirit	27 Jun 2003
Whatever girl you take home to meet mom, make sure she is not reversed as that would make the meeting awkward. "Hello mrs. divinermom, eeeh, nice feet" :laugh:

DarkElectric	27 Jun 2003
Poor Divinerguy, let's take it easy on him. That double standard thing sucks, but it's a fact of cultural history. Men used to think that way, for a long time. They actually believed there was something to it. It's not that way anymore, and I seriously doubt he meant to be insulting. This is a good example of how attitudes are changing in America, and elsewhere. As far as undesirable men, who aren't fit for female company, my girlfriends and I refer to those as "Jerkoff Loser Dogs" and that says it all.

firemaiden	28 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by raeanne Wouldn't the whore be an archetype? Short Answer: no, it's a profession. Long Answer: yes and no... Tarot cards are types too! So what wrong with matching types to types? Just as we can each all be ALL of the cards, so too can one woman be both the fun gal and the serious gal. As for the cards, themselves, however, sure, the Princess of Wands is a picture of the fun-sexy aspect of ourselves, and the Star is a picture of the sincere unconditionally loving aspect in all of us. Women are both and everything and more, but cards are just cards. Please, lets not confuse cards with people.

Umbrae	28 Jun 2003
But then again…look at Erin Brokovich… How was she judged by others? How did they see her? Was she ‘that way’? And did she not use that as a tool? What archetype did she ‘play’?

firemaiden	28 Jun 2003
Is this a quiz Umb? Are we being graded? Because I am afraid I am going to flunk. Lets see, is Erin Brokovitch a princess of swords type? am i getting close? She was the one who blew the whistle on a big chemical company, got fired and harrassed, She sued, and won, then got a movie made about her? So I would say, she is the Queen/Princess of Swords archetype, and er.. how exactly does this fit in here?

DarkElectric	28 Jun 2003
Hey, I've been called certain things, because if I really like someone, I'll express it physically. I'm not ashamed of myself, or my sexuality. The people who've called me bad names because of that are sorry sods indeed. I'm sure there have been people who haven't brought me back to meet the folks for one reason or another. Conversely, there have been men I won't introduce to my folks either, and it's usually because of my parent's limited paradigm as far as this subject is concerned. They still haven't come to grips with the idea that I don't want to get married, settle down, all that traditional stuff. So if I happen to spend time with someone else who isn't into all that stuff either, it vexes my folks. And occasionally, a J.L.D (*see my previous post) sneaks in under the radar, and this person cannot be introduced because my dad can intuitively identify these, and will go ballistic.

Umbrae	28 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden Lets see, is Erin Brokovitch a princess of swords type?…She was the one who blew the whistle on a big chemical company, got fired and harassed... how exactly does this fit in here? As a person, she was viewed by others ‘one way’, when in reality she was quite different. Some folks saw her as that fourth face of a woman that folks are in denial about (and which card would that be?), and in another she was the Princess/Page of Cups…

cricket	28 Jun 2003
...and then there's the plain old clay pots... :D ;) Just my couple of cents, but every woman (and every man, for that matter) could easily be represented by the World. We're all a little bit of everything all rolled into one. We just can't show all facets of ourselves at the same time.

divinerguy	28 Jun 2003
I'd like to make a point here - I used the term "party girl" to represent a girl who is fun to be with. I didn't intend to imply that fun girls are promicuous, and that "take home to Mom" girls are analagous to the Virgin Mary -- someone else did. I find nothing inherently wrong about either archetype, or with either lifestyle choice. I posted the message as my analogue to the post about what "King" I'd want to marry. So, I'm not the first to raise the issue about "marriageable" qualities as a Tarot card archetype. (King as husband - http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15148) (Magician as husband - http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15009) I did, however, raise the unspoken corollary - the opposite archetype of female marriageability. Someone else associated that characteristic with promiscuity, not me. In the earlier threads, numerous comments were made about the Magician not being a good husband, and being a "toy," but I don't seem to recall anyone getting upset with the stereotyping of men. I guess gender bias only cuts in one direction. There are people, both men and women, who have no desire to build a nest and raise a family. Frankly, when it comes to recreation and leisure, they are fun people - but not necessarily someone who would fit into a nuclear family role. Some men look for women who would be good wives and mothers, just as some women look for men who will be good fathers and husbands. I didn't invent marriage, and I didn't invent dance clubs, so please don't call me to task because I raised the question of which cards (archetypes) are associated with each lifestyle choice. I don't believe in the inherent superiority of either gender, howver, I do believe that we are different in many ways. It is those differences that bind us togther, while at the same time, creating discord.

Diana	28 Jun 2003
I understood you divinerguy. I saw absolutely no harm in the title of your thread. It reminded me more of the kind of title that a journalist will use to attract attention to his/her article. Party girls are not always those that Mum would approve of! And indeed, they do not always make suitable spouses. They are too keen on their freedom - sexual and otherwise. They could very well be the High Priestess....... I think Mum would like the Empress. I feel like giving you a hug. And if my husband's not looking, I'll give you a kiss as well.

DarkElectric	28 Jun 2003
Again, I stand forth as one of those females who has absolutely no desire to settle down and raise a family for any reason. I'm just not into it, and never have been. People, you wouldn't BELIEVE the crap I have to put up with from some folks because of this. The cultural whammy stereotype of Madonna/Whore has been applied to me so many times, it feels like wallpaper. Men sometimes, but more often than not, I get whomped upside the head with it from other women. For some reason, I have been seen as an anathema to femalekind because of my unorthodox approach to relationships. Thank the Gods the culture is changing. These outdated ideas are going away. Which is a good thing.

Diana	29 Jun 2003
DarkElectric: That's exactly it. Because you don't want to settle down and have a family, Mum would not like to have you as a wife for her son......... She will probably not mind him partying with you, after all, Mums want their children to enjoy life, but if he came home and said "I'm going to marry that party-girl", then that might worry her a bit.... Because of any future children who always benefit from a stable, long-term relationship. Doesn't mean Mum may not think you're a great person. Why, she may even love you and want to go out partying with you! My mum would not have liked my marrying a party-man, for instance. But she thought my party-men friends were a lot of fun! Lots of giggles........

jmd	29 Jun 2003
Certainly stereotyping has its negative sides, for it may certainly prevent us from seeing the person as s/he is, and rather focus on the image projected upon him or her... Here I have gone back to much of the thread, and the reactions the thread title caused. Though the title clearly implies that there are some people one may certainly want to share fun with (and this does not necessarily imply sexuality), there are others one may consider as more staid personae. As either implied or mentioned by some, this may very well be the same actual person... after all, when at a rejoicing gathering of any kind - what may be referred to as a 'party', my own behaviour is certainly different to when running a group at a pedagogical conference. Here, different cards may very well represent these different aspects (in my own case, perhaps the Magician in the first, and perhaps the Pope/Hierophant in the second). The stereotyping occurs when others can only see me as the one or the other... With regards, then, to the title of the thread, it certainly connotes the various ideals a man may have of the woman sought, or even of the ideals a woman may have of herself: one who can, at times, let go and have and be fun, and at others provide particular types of genuine 'responsibleness' (whatever this may mean). Now the question becomes: how are each of these possibly presented and reflected in the Tarot? Our answers undoubtedly, apart from reflecting, possibly, our understanding of the cards, also reflect our views and understanding of each of those 'behaviours' implied in the title...

DeLani	29 Jun 2003
Just taking the thread title at face value: the kind of woman you would want to marry vs. the kind you wouldn't - I'm having a hard time seeing how you can pick cards for that. Every person has a different taste in spouses. If one person wants the mature, responsible, earthy Q of Pentacles, another might want the passionate Q of Wands. Myself, I am mostly Q of Swords, but also exhibit a lot of Q of Pentacles traits. I am a wife and mother. My mom is Q of Wands all the way. And her (much younger) husband seems to be pretty happy with that. Turning it around, as to what kind of hubby I'd want vs. just have fun with, I always see the Knight of Cups as a total "player." All about the smooth moves, good looking, and probably dynamite in bed, but about as reliable as nothing. A good husbandly card, I think, would be the King of Pentacles. Or King of Cups.

DarkElectric	29 Jun 2003
Diana :) I agree with Mum, I don't want to be a wife for her son either!

Diana	29 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DarkElectric Diana :) I agree with Mum, I don't want to be a wife for her son either! Well then, the two of you will get on just fine! :) Divinerguy! There's a girl over here you can take over to see Mum!

MeeWah	29 Jun 2003
Given the previous discussions regarding a King or The Magician as a potential spouse in *Tarot terms*, this thread of Divinerguy's is of the same vein & deserves the same consideration as those other speculative discussions. As with a particular King or The Magician, it would depend on the qualities in a person & the type of relationship desired. Based on the range of extremes each card is capable of, some of the preferred qualities could be included in either a casual or serious relationship. A person could possess both sets of traits. The traits could depend on the stage of life, whether in youth or older (though some folks make an early decision as to the life-style) as the view can change & evolve with the life experiences. The Fool can be a happy-go-lucky fellow or gal; one with a Peter Pan complex that is wonderful for spontaneity & fun. Would tend to understand a need for personal freedom & not being ready to commit or settle down. Once the decision is made to end the wandering days, this person could be very stable; stodgy or a stick-in-the-mud; humourless. The High Priestess could be difficult to pin down due to a certain emotional detachment, but once she is struck the loyalty is unwavering & a relationship would be conducted with a fine hand--unless she feels betrayed. The Empress could be seen as an embodiment of a nurturing, motherly/wifely energy; devoted to family & friends. On the other hand however, it could also be obsessive with a tendency to over-possessiveness &/or smother-love applied to both the spouse & the offspring. Queen-Pentacles is stable & grounded; has common sense with a good head for managing a household; a regard for familial relationships; enjoys entertaining & is a good hostess. The other side of the coin is that she could be a workaholic in the home &/or career which could adversely impact the personal relationships; overly concerned with acquiring the material trappings of life or "keeping up with The Jones'". Queen-Swords tends to be ruled by the intellect or logic so the mental faculties are the avenue of appeal. Organized, prefers to be in charge or to direct; could be manipulative inadvertently or intentionally. Excessively logical & not always open to spur of the moment whim but could be appealed to based on logic. If she feels maligned or betrayed, watch out--vengeance hath no fury like a woman scorned. The rapier tongue slices & dices. & the steel-trap mind plans a suitable revenge. & so on it goes, but these are just quick assessments & by no means limited to them only.

Macavity	29 Jun 2003
Dare I say it, I think SOME of these situations remind me more of (the Marseille version of) the Lover(s)! }) For, isn't THAT card really about parental (or even society) control over our partnership choice? And, moreover, the development of our own "pickers"? (I was careful about how I typed that!) :laugh: In the Lover(s) card, the "mother" has the advantage of life experience and "same-sex knowhow". But, as that young man may learn, to allow his mother to say: "See Son, I was RIGHT about her" is excuse himself responsibility and maybe ALSO to allow "Mom" to retain (perhaps perpetual?) control of his life... Is it not also about a young man's need to escape BOTH women and develop as "his own man", before embarking on any relationship. An ideal, afforded to few? For, like the rest of us, he will only learn by his mistakes, and doubtless become aware that ultimately he has no REAL control over what his partner may yet become. He may, as a result, find himself resigning from the game, single, jaundiced by it all. But, he will have to own that choice too. For ultimately it was his... :) The beauty of the cards is that they seem to work for any choice of gender combinations? Boys and Mothers, Girls and Fathers etc. etc. Ah, the wonders of the Archetype... :D Macavity

The Party girl vs. Bring home to Mom girl thread was originally posted on 23 Jun 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.