what do you think of this?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

anjocoxo	11 Jun 2003
I found this article as I was hanging around the internet... I think we better rescue our children from evil, shouldn't we? Strange is, they start well, explaining pretty well what a tarot deck.... just to discover that it is bad for you. So, I want to hear your opinion on this. Anjo "Tarot Cards: What's in a Deck? The tarot card deck is made up of essentially two parts: 56 pictorial cards that are surprisingly similar to a regular deck of playing cards and 22 additional cards called the major arcane. These cards include pictures with names such as the Fool, the Devil, Temperance, the Hermit, the Sun, the Lovers, the Juggler, the Hanged Man, and Death. Those who believe in tarot and have their cards read regularly say that the readings help them prepare for the future by not only revealing truths about their lives, but also by divulging secrets about people all around them. Experienced psychic tarot card readers claim that they are the only ones who can deliver a truthful reading and caution against just reading interpretations out of the book that comes with the cards. In order to get the best reading from the cards, the one who desires the reading must concentrate on the cards with the psychic reader, and the psychic reader helps that person make contact with the cards and put their own "special vibration" on the deck so the cards will reveal all their mysteries. Readers of tarot cards lay the cards out in special combinations called spreads. In these spreads, it becomes possible for the reader to see a detailed, pictorial representation of the situation for which their client has come to them. In a traditional 10-card spread called the Celtic Cross, a reader can look at the positions of the cards and determine what past actions have contributed to or caused the situation, and based on current events in the client's life, and the "energy" of the cards, what will most likely occur in the future. Tarot Cards: What's the Harm? The use of tarot cards does not seem to be a religion in the sense that it does not involve the worship of deities. However, in another sense, it is very much a religion (or some would say obsession) when it becomes a practice or activity that someone is completely devoted to. At some point, it can take on cultish or occultish aspects. In fact, there are many people who place tarot cards in the same category as other occult fortune-telling techniques such as the ouija board, astrology, crystal balls, palmistry, and tea leaves. Of course, some maintain that tarot cards are just harmless fun. Tarot cards fit in well with the New Age movement that is so prevalent these days. New Agers use certain practices or methods to "get in touch with their inner spirits," and tarot cards can be a perfect way for them to channel their thoughts and connect with the "Oneness of the Universe." So where is the harm in tarot cards? If those who use tarot cards are not worshipping Satan and are not conjuring up evil spirits or sacrificing virgins, how can tarot cards possibly be a danger to anyone? Oddly enough the danger of tarot cards is admitted within the ranks of tarot card readers themselves. The readers cannot explain how the tarot readings work, and the decision to use a particular system in reading the cards is entirely a matter of the personal preference of the reader. In other words, two readers could read the same spread of cards and come up with entirely different interpretations of those cards. Tarot card readers also say that the tarot can only provide a static "photograph" of a situation, and that our own choices and actions determine our future-not the cards. If this is the case, why use the tarot cards at all? Tarot Cards: No Hope for the Future Tarot cards represent the fact that we all want to know what the future has in store for us. One could argue that it's actually commendable to want to make good decisions in the present based on our knowledge of the future. However, since the future hasn't happened yet, there is no power here on earth that can tell us what's in store. In order to have a hope for the future and gain the wisdom to make sound decisions now, we must tap into the power of the Creator of the universe - the only One who knows our future - God. Your future is written in the pages of God's Word, the Bible; and God never changes, and His Word is not open to multiple interpretations. So, rather than basing your actions on a deck of cards and betting your future on the whims of card readers who admit that "nothing is written in stone," why not place your trust in the unchangeable God who wants to be personally involved in your future." you can read the whole article in http://www.tarot-card.org/

sagitarian	11 Jun 2003
I find this article to be funny and very easily disputable! First off, there are SEVERAL people who know how tarot work. They are the tools of an empath. And um, sorry, but there ARE several ways to "see" the future. I've seen my own SEVERAL times as well as friends, family, including when people are going to die. When they get close to death, I can feel their spirit slipping and crossing over, beginning the journey. I usually deliver the message to the person that so and so is in the process of passing, they'll probably be gone in the next 6-12 months. Also, tarot doesn't tell you anything you don't already know, except maybe some insights into the situation (that was floating around in your sub concious) that tarot helps bring to your concious, making you aware of...etc. So why do a tarot reading? I don't know, why don't you tell me why you want one done. Some people just want a tarot reading to see for themselves if there is any truth to it, testing readers. Other people honestly want some kind of clarity in their life, and then of course you have your typical "when will I find someone" questions which are asked in desparity (usually, NOT all the time). Some readers use tarot ONLY for themselves, so are they doing evil unto themselves? I mean come on! Oh and another thing, about that whole God thing, there are SEVERAL readers that I've met, and I'm one of them, that DOES believe in God, and I believe that God gave me my gifts so I can help people psychologically with understanding their emotions (being an empath) and seeing (best done with cards) where they should direct themselves to, in order to bring peace (and God) into their soul. Everyone I know believes in some type of higher power, and none of them are of satan, or demonic, or evil. So in essence, we are all following the path that what ever spiritual path you have choosen, that higher power helps guide you into that path. The more you listen, and can be intuned with that higher power, the more you CAN do the work you are meant to do here. Just b/c someone is clairovyouant, or reads cards, or has a knack for astrology DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE EVIL. Most of us are rather nice, good hearted, hard working, respected citizens of our beloved country (whichever country you live in)! >:)

Minderwiz	11 Jun 2003
Well said Sagitarian!! As I read through my first impressions were of a genuine attempt to explain Tarot by someone who doesn't really know that much about it. As the article goes on the 'objectivity' of the writer begins to break down at the edges and tben we come to the final section where it is clear that the writer is not objective at all but is taking a highly subjective and prejudiced view on the basis of a rather weak understanding of God. One might answer back that there are a lot of bible readers who seem to disagree as to what God actually meant (assuming for the moment that He/She/It inspired or wrote it). The author of the article does not have a monopoly of God's wisdom. As we have seen in another thread the Tarot is highly Christian in its origins and both depictions on cards and meanings grew in a Christian environment. There are many Christian approaches to God's message and rather than invalidate Christianity this multiverse of approaches actually strengthens it - there are many routes to God. The trouble is that the article is highly insidious rather than mounting a frontal attack it tries to appear reasonable and objective and this may lead to it be treated seriously.

Kiama	11 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by anjocoxo In order to get the best reading from the cards, the one who desires the reading must concentrate on the cards with the psychic reader, and the psychic reader helps that person make contact with the cards and put their own "special vibration" on the deck so the cards will reveal all their mysteries. Readers of tarot cards lay the cards out in special combinations called spreads. This is an over-generalisation, since we can see many Tarot readers here on Aeclectic who do not do any of this. Not a good start to an article. Occultish.. Yeah, so what??!! This made me laugh, because of course the Tarot is occult. (Occult quite simply means 'secret', and has come to denote anything to do with fortune-telling and most New Age subjects too) Again, I laughed. So what? Of course it's in the same field as the things mention above... The Tarot can be seen as a divination system, which is exactly what all the other things mentioned are. I don't see what the writer of this article is saying here. Other than that they know very little about what they are criticising. I can explain, in my opinion, and can also list several other views on how it works which I have discussed with other readers. Although I have seen in practice that this very rarely happens, and either the two different readers say the same thing, or get different cards which say generally the same thing anyway. Because of all the other uses of Tarot. Because it doesn't just claim to tell the future, but also shows the most likely future. Because we can explore what's going on around us. Because we can eplore our own feelings and reactions to everything: Something most people would not do otherwise. Of course the cards do not determine the future, and of course it is our actions that do so... The Tarot just helps us ewxplore what actions are available to us and what we are most likely to do, in order to help us choose what actions to take to determine the future. Wrong I'm afraid. Everybody has the ability to tell what's in store in the future, even though it hasn't happened yet. I'll use the same example I always use... There you are, standing by the side of the road, and you see a man standing in the middle of the road. There is a bus speeding towards him. The bus hasn't hit him yet: The future has not happened yet, but if you cannot see that future, you are blind and foolish. You can see the future (The bus hitting the man) simply by examing what is going on in the present (The bus speeding towards the man standing in front of it.) In the same way, the Tarot examines the causes (Past and present) to tell us the most likely future, in just the same way as we would examine the present situation to come to conclusions about the most likely future. Then we get to the Christian part of the article, and I won't criticise that because it's somebody's personal religious belief. Whilst I do not agree with it and find that it actually ignores much of reality and history (The fact that the Bible has changed... Far too many times for comfort), I will not go further. The writer didn't know enough about Tarot to be able to criticise it effectively. I just wish people would take the time to fully explore the subject before coming to shakey conclusions about it, and telling other people their conclusions, claiming it is the 'truth'. Kiama

Trogon	11 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama The writer didn't know enough about Tarot to be able to criticise it effectively. I just wish people would take the time to fully explore the subject before coming to shakey conclusions about it, and telling other people their conclusions, claiming it is the 'truth'. Ah... alas, the problem is this article was probably mostly aimed at people who already share the beliefs of the author. It is unlikely that a person who is capable of freely thinking for themselves is likely to read this article and blindly accept the conclusions therein. The person who thinks for themselves would read it... perhaps begin to wonder about the Tarot and perhaps begin to explore it (he or she has already had run-ins with the type of person who won't think for themselves on these issues). Pretty soon, we have a new member of Aeclectic Tarot...

Sobeknofret	11 Jun 2003
Personally, I got a bit of a giggle out of it, but then again these things always do make me laugh. I agree with Trogon though, it seems as though this is not a particularly persuasive article, meant to persuade people who do not share the author's belief of the validity of the argument, but rather a "preaching to the choir" article. The person who's going to agree with this article already is of the same persuasion as the writer and is already predisposed to believe in this trash before they read it. I teach rhetoric and technical writing at the University. I'd love to print this article out and give it to my more advanced students to tackle as a rhetorical analysis. They'd tear it apart in five minutes it's so poorly constructed. Sobe

allibee	11 Jun 2003
I notice that all sections are seperately named sites, but all lead to here: Contact Information: All About GOD Ministries, Inc. 20532 El Toro Road, Suite 209 Mission Viejo, California 92692 949-420-0275 949-420-0276 fax Email: Questions-2@AllAboutGOD.com Website: AllAboutGOD.com *wink*Perhaps they would enjoy being told how much joy and laughter they have brought to my life ;) A.

Logiatrix	11 Jun 2003
It was an article very much like this one that brought me to Aeclectic! Just as trogon said, such writings are aimed at the already converted. A searching, independently thinking individual would read something like this piece and say, "Hmmm, that sounds interesting--I think I'll look up more about that." That's exactly how I found THIS website three years ago...I was rooting around on the internet, reading articles about death, dying and the afterlife. I found a Christian website with these topics, and one of the articles strongly disputed other belief-systems that upheld the concept of reincarnation or an afterlife (other than Heaven). Then, it discussed the occult--the HORRIBLE occult!--including in that realm--yep--tarot cards. I said, "Hmmm, that sounds interesting..." I did another search, and here I am. God works in mysterious ways. :)

SingingTarot	11 Jun 2003
I cannot belive the article says that there is only one way to interpret the Bible! Bible bash anyone? I mean it would seem quite of obvious with the number of christian faiths out there. Obviously, they are the ones who have this ONE interpretation... I really dislike people who try to prove everybody else wrong in order to prove that they KNOW THE ONLY way! I mean, only I know that! Just like many, I giggled quite a bit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In fact, there are many people who place tarot cards in the same category as --- intense stillness in the audience---- other occult fortune-telling techniques such as ---- can we bear the tension?---- the ouija board, astrology, crystal balls, palmistry, and tea leaves ---- this is where members of the audience start gasping for dear air, some of them even pass out--- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As many of you mentioned, this article has been written by and for the members of this one congregation, to simply reaffirm what they all already know. Alice "... you should care I'm going to hell, even though I'm NOT!" Elaine, Seinfeld.

jog1118	12 Jun 2003
I am a roman catholic and, sad to say, admit that there are those ,even among other religions, who think "one-way". I believe in God and I believe as long as you are not hurting others (physically or otherwise) you are not evil. I also believe that if you do not truly understand something then you should not condemn it. For fellow-aeclectics who were offended by this article (I for one got offended), let's just pray (or whatever you do in your religion) for these close-minded, judgemental kind of people PEACE!!! :smoker:

Minderwiz	12 Jun 2003
Well said Jog, The article is intended to keep the 'faithfull' on the straight and narrow and say to them words to the effect of Tarot may seem harmless but it's leading you away from God (and presumably to a nasty hereafter). There is no intention to look seriously at Tarot because it starts from the premise that Tarot is wrong/misguided//silly/supply suitable adjective. And its inteded for those who don't know but might just let their curiosity get the better of them (and who knows where that might lead!) This sort of approach gives Christians a bad name but thankfully it comes from a small minority (worldwide) of Christians, or at least I hope it does

catboxer	12 Jun 2003
It wasn't a particularly virulent attack. The writer's thesis only came at the very end -- he or she is arguing that the only legitimate approach to God is the Christian Bible. That seems to have been the whole point. This writer chose a very roundabout way to make an argument, and in the end only ended up saying that tarot is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can't be a good thing because it's not the Bible.

Diana	12 Jun 2003
I read it like catboxer. Just sounds like someone who loves his Bible very much indeed. As much as we like Tarot.......

Emily	12 Jun 2003
I don't think it reads too bad, it isn't an all out vicious attack on tarot or readers but I think the person who wrote it didn't do their research properly. If it was intended to frighten people off from getting interested in learning the tarot, it wouldn't have worked on me lol - I might go and read the whole article though, it might get worse lol

Minderwiz	12 Jun 2003
I didn't suggest it was a virulent attack - I think its much more sophisticated than that - it's function is to say that the Tarot might seem interesting but it is essentially a dead end and something that you don't need, when you've got this wonderful direct link to God. A virulent attack may provoke a reaction and if the attack is shown to be on false premises it can do much more harm to the attacker than the attacked. By keeping this low key and with careful wording it becomes difficult to refute the attack unless you are quite familiar with Tarot to start with. However, It's aimed at waverers and its aimed at trying to stop them 'defecting'.

catboxer	12 Jun 2003
Minderwiz: Yes, you're right. A low-key attack is certainly a much more effective way to undermine something than one which is shrill and panic-stricken. When people hysterically condemn our cards as "the work of Satan," then go on to demonstrate their utter ignorance of the subject at hand, they simply become a laughing stock. This person is more subtle than that. The writer also gains credibility through his or her carefully crafted description of the uses of the cards. It's not terribly sophisticated, but then neither is it entirely off the mark. It kind of reminds me of Pat Robertson's laughing-boy approach to the subject of hell and damnation.

Macavity	12 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by sagitarian I find this article to be funny and very easily disputable! Yes, but (respectfully!) I could dispute e.g. the following: >> First off, there are SEVERAL people who know how tarot work. There are? Well, fair enough, but I'd call that faith or belief NOT fact :) >> Everyone I know believes in some type of higher power, They do? But e.g. I don't believe in a higher power... currently :D etc. I know I might appear to be picking on you, but I'm not really (much!) and doubtless (eeek!) more folk will subscribe to your view HERE? But the problem is one has to be extremely careful to distinguish between beliefs and facts? Heck, I'm OK with folk saying "I believe that..." or "It is my experince that..." and I think if one looks at MOST respected Tarot authors, they usually make no more claims for Tarot than that. Yet I find that in significant contrast with many of the quite definitive claims made on a daily basis on Aeclectic. Wherein lies the difference between that and the author quoted? Neither necessarily a bad thing but an observation anyway... I think over my life I've concluded that the world is divided into two types of people: those who "KNOW" stuff (definitively!) and me... ;) Macavity P.S. You got off lightly - it could have been a five point calvinist! })

Khatruman	12 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by anjocoxo it is very much a religion (or some would say obsession) when it becomes a practice or activity that someone is completely devoted to. At some point, it can take on cultish or occultish aspects...... Your future is written in the pages of God's Word, the Bible; and God never changes, and His Word is not open to multiple interpretations. So, rather than basing your actions on a deck of cards and betting your future on the whims of card readers who admit that "nothing is written in stone," why not place your trust in the unchangeable God who wants to be personally involved in your future." Ok, here are a couple sections that I found particularly laughable (and if I am making a point that others have here, I apologize. I didn't look through all of the posts). On the cultish dismissal: Quite frankly ANYTHING becomes a religion by definition if you make it an activity or practice that you are COMPLETELY devoted to. If you worship corn dogs, it is quite unhealthy, but do we dismiss corn dogs based on this?? On the future written by God aspect: his work is not open to multiple interpretations???? Ohhh, reallly????? Well, it seems to me that the wealth of Christian sects do JUST THAT. They interpret the Bible in vastly different ways. And pretty much any homily is a matter of putting an interpretation on the Bible. For that matter, the differing translations of the text are themselves different interpretations. Take a simple word translated as "command"...that God commands us to do this or that. I was fascinated in reading Pollack's Forest of Souls that the word which is translated as "command" bears more resemblance to our word "desires" as in a passionate want. Boy doesn't that put a different interpretation on things! Rather than God sternly telling us to do, he is expressing a passionate desire for our doing something. It is a shame that this author begins with what seems like an open minded attitude, and quickly closes it up with his religious bias. What I love about us tarotists is that our minds are open to many ideas, and thus willing to learn and grow in our understanding. This author obviously has shut his mind down.

The what do you think of this? thread was originally posted on 11 Jun 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.