Other Systems Linked To Tarot?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jog1118	11 Jul 2003
tarot - kabbalah - numerology - astrology does anyone know of any other system linked to tarot? very curious about this :smoker:

Trogon	11 Jul 2003
Printing? Sorry... couldn't resist... :|

Macavity	11 Jul 2003
:laugh: Yeah, Money making? ;) BSF, I guess you mean correspondance with Hebrew and Magical Alphabets... and also I-Ching... Runes... etc. - As in the Haindl, the Quest Tarot etc. There are a number of claimed associations between Tarot and the divinatory "meanings" of other methods - and a number of threads that discuss them here. Such links are perhaps notable for a general lack of concensus? ;) One suspects that there are no a-priori reason for such links... other than it's something we humans like to do? That said, some ideas carry interesting hints of something "deeper" and (imo) often add significantly to the basics of tarot... Macavity

Rusty Neon	11 Jul 2003
The Golden Dawn set up tarot correspondences with Kaballah, astrology, geomancy, mythology, the four/five elements, colours, and the GD's magical system based on Elizabethan magus Dee's two systems of magic. (I'm probably missing a couple of things. Feel free to add.) On top of the GD overlay, Crowley set up a whole bunch of tarot/Kaballah correspondences with other things (e.g., I Ching, precious stones, the body, perfumes, Buddhism's Eightfold Path and other Buddhist categories, more mythology, more astrology, etc., etc.) in his book _777_. The esoteric system of BOTA (Case et al) includes tarot correspondences with musical notes.

NiftyKracker	11 Jul 2003
The correspondance of alchemical ideas to the tarot is not as clean-cut or convenient as that of Kabbalah or Astrology, but I believe that the underlying themes of transformation and synthesis greatly aid one's understanding of the Greater Trumps, and of the rest of the deck, to a lesser degree. The most significant deck (in my opinion) to incorporate these ancient ideas into the modern tarot is the Alchemical Tarot by Robert M. Place... I'm sure there is a review on this site, if you are interested.

Huck	24 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jog1118 tarot - kabbalah - numerology - astrology does anyone know of any other system linked to tarot? very curious about this :smoker: :-) Depends, how you think about your question. Do you look for: 1. Systems already existing and linked by somebody in a book or other text or a deck or 2. Systems potentially sensemaking, when linked. or 3. Systems not very sensemaking, but somehow possible. Let's take the throw of 2 dices. There are 21 possibilities. This you can sort to the Major Arcana. It is already suggested, that Tarot was formed by this analogy (Moakley), perhaps even somebody did that for his/her deck. Geomancy: The perhaps oldest Tarot cards had only 16 Trumps, and we know, that the inventer had 4 books about geomancy in his library. So the 16 geomantic figures are in the Tarot - somehow. 12 Olympic gods. We know, that the same inventer used the old system of the 12 olympic gods for this. http://geocities.com/autorbis/marcello1.html Boiardo used a poem: http://geocities.com/autorbis/boiardo-bio.html I-Ching is possible .... and was done in unelegant ways occasionally, for instance by Crowley. I've a book, that refers them to the 22 chapters of the relevation. One of the older decks refered to a famous Italian text of 16th century, the "Orlando furioso" from Ariost. One poem of 16th century refered the cards to the ladies of a court. Many older German decks have so many different themes ... social themes without number. Oh well, there are so many curious examples, that I do stop here. World was creative with them. It depends a little bit, what you define as Tarot.

jog1118	24 Jul 2003
hello huck and welcome to the forums. i'm more interested in the (what niftykracker termed as) clean-cut / convenient correspondences to the tarot (i.e. astrology and kabbalah) as i've metioned inthis thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16081 i'd like to study other systems linked to the tarot to broaden my understanding of the tarot and improve the accuracy/content of my readings. currently, i'm applying some concepts of numerology, astrology and (soon) kabbalah to my readings...perhaps you could suggest an addition to my tarot correspondences? :smoker:

Huck	25 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jog1118 hello huck and welcome to the forums. i'd like to study other systems linked to the tarot to broaden my understanding of the tarot and improve the accuracy/content of my readings. currently, i'm applying some concepts of numerology, astrology and (soon) kabbalah to my readings...perhaps you could suggest an addition to my tarot correspondences? :smoker: Tarot exists with various systems and ideas. One of the main streams is divination. Tarot as divination-system also exists in various systems, occasionally contradicting each other. There is the "English system", there is the "French system" and there are others. Probably you do believe, that one of this systems is "right" and others are "wrong" and that's "your system", but other decides, that another system is "right" and that's "their systems". It's as with religions ... not everybody feels the same truth. That's what you can learn of it: You're free. All these system are born in the mind (of somebody) and they've the state of creative play, "I define, that this card presents this or that to me ...", that's the begin. Some people related in their creative play the row of the Hebrew alphabet to the row of the Tarot cards and said: "that's true", and this became the main context for French and English school, as both did the step to Kabbala with that (the relation is differently drawn by these schools). Kabbala already had in its own creative play already related astrology with Hebrew letters, so by this way Tarot also got some astrological components. Historically this became the main line of interpretation. But Kabbala in its long history - as Tarot - has related astrology and letters not only in one way. So again: a multiplicity of various systems are possible, each contradicting the other. For instance: The card Moon - a clear moon and nothing else in its origin - somehow has now something to do with Pisces, in the system of the Golden Dawn. Well, divination was always so, also in the "ancient world", where all this started. Divination was made with various media: You can watch the birds. throw some coins, lay down some cards, view in your hands or in the rest of the coffee in the coffee-pot. The easiest way: Take a coin, Yes or No. The question was the system. Did it work somehow? And you've the same problem. Does your system work? Or does no system really work? Or does any system work? A first step: Understand freedom. Inside of any system is a "nothing". You asked: " ... perhaps you could suggest an addition to my tarot correspondences?" Well: First do not add but subtract, that you get a clear base. Then "adding" and construction of various mind-mandalas of exquisite elegance, taking free advantage of various productions of human minds of the past, is easily possible. No problem. I for instance liked to involve the I-Ching.

The Other Systems Linked To Tarot? thread was originally posted on 11 Jul 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.