From learning to understanding

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jmd	26 Aug 2003
I wasn't quite sure what to name this thread, actually... Over time, various discussions have been made on the merits or otherwise of book learning - or learning the basics, and what is sometimes presented as an opposite, namely 'intuition' (whatever this precisely refers to). Numerous threads pick up on various aspects of these two, including: Intuition vs what the book says in which I claim that ' the moment is what speaks '; Intuition and the Reading in which a number of people discuss the very concept of intuition, and in which I suggest that, in terms of a reading, the being-at-oneness with the situation at hand is indicated by this term; and Psychic Powers, Intuition or Common Sense - How Genuine Are We? which, though addressing a different question, has so many related aspects. In this last thread, what I suggested was of high importance was the integrity of the person in the specific reading at hand . What strikes me in each of these threads and examples is the commonality of views expressed by so many of us in such various ways. In each case two central element seem to emerge: the need for allowing the situation to unveil itself and the reader to be receptive; and the background work the reader is assumed to have done. For the first of these two points, many beginners seem to need to develop trust - allow the process to just unloosen one's tongue. The second, however, is also as important, at least in my opinion: to read and meditate and discuss some of the basic views which others have of the cards' fundamental possible meanings, given the images or symbolic language employed... Some have a phenomenal memory, or have developed wonderful mnemonic techniques... and how useful this can be in advancing towards an understanding cannot, in my view, be overestimated. Even the person who just reads from a book cards' suggested meanings may truly assist in developing their understanding of the cards. I would, however, also add a qualifier... In the same way that a person who only ever reads from a book limits the possibility of quite a profound readings, so does a person who never takes the time to deepen their understanding of the cards by actually reading what others have to offer through their insights, offered not in short posts as in this Forum, but through longer narrative such as a book. Each, in my view, has its place in developing learning towards an understanding of Tarot: the use of intuition, and the usage of what others have suggested in books, posts and discussions... :)

Kiama	26 Aug 2003
I have begun to see it as the Hierophant and Priestess. The Priestess teaches us about inner wisdom, understanding, and following one's intuition. The Hierophant teaches us about the value of listening to our 'elders' or other people, and about seeing everything and everbody around us as a teacher. He also teaches us that books often offer some great advice. Like you say JMD, using just one of these leaves us unbalanced. But if we blend some deep study of the cards, book reading, learning of other's ideas of the cards, and a little intuition when it comes to the actual reading itself, I think we've achieved something very beautiful. I have always said that I love the 'intuitive' method of reading, and indeed, if somebody I meet wants to know if it is difficult to read Tarot cards, I hand them the deck and tell them to 'say what they see', using their intuition and understanding of the situation. This always makes the point that it isn't that difficult to actually read. However, if these people were then to want to go further, I would give them a reading list, give them the address for this site, recommend some decks, and get them to go study, research, read, and learn from others. This way, they not only know how to read using their intuition, but they develop a deep insight into all the cards and an understanding of them. Kiama

Umbrae	26 Aug 2003
Umbrae ascends the soapbox. “Ahem. Er uh yes. Lovely bit there Jay Em Dee. Nice Key-Ahma. I have a question? We live in a world filled with information which is boxed and sold to us as knowledge. Amazon dot bomb…heck, even this site! Information. Data. Facts. Some folks roundly distrust some of us from the intuitive school stating that we are really just book readers. Where is the opportunity for true intuition? Where does one begin with true intuition. How does one begin reading with true intuition once we fill our heads with ‘supposed meanings?’ We are a minority out here. Our own members, some who confuse reference books with reverence books, have laughed at me and pointed in disdain… But where does one learn intuitive readings? Where do we learn to read from the heart and not the head? Can we have some examples you cry? Keep an eye out for a ‘featured reading’ appearing sometime around the weekend.” Umbrae falls off the soapbox, landing flat on his face…

Kiama	26 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Where is the opportunity for true intuition? Where does one begin with true intuition. How does one begin reading with true intuition once we fill our heads with ‘supposed meanings?’ We're not talking about colding memorising book meanings word for word or by rote, Umbrae. (At least I'm not, and I don't think JMD is either! ;)) We're saying that to have only one (either intuition or book learning) causes imbalance and difficulties. Without intuition, we find it difficult, if not impossible, to apply the cards to the querent and their question. Without book-learning and some deeper study of the systems embedded in the cards and their symbols, we find it difficult, if not impossible, to get really deep into the cards' meanings and the issues they tackle. I wonder if you'd be so kind as to take a quick peek at my Hanged Man card I created for the SACT project? Take a look at the description I wrote for it. Somebody praised that description as scholarly, which I was very pleased about. If I hadn't done some book-learning, if I hadn't researched all the aspects the Hanged Man card looked at, if I had simply used my intuition and nothing else to determine what this card focuses on, I would be merely tapping on the surface of the card. I think the same is true of the rest of the cards, at least for me. I don't read a book's meanings and say 'these are the one true meanings for the cards and I won't change them at all'. Instead, I read many different books with many different takes on each card. I read other peoples' opinions of the cards on this forum, and finally, I also add my own feelings and intuition. But the intuition for me only really comes into play in a reading, where I need to apply what I have learned and studied about each card to somebody's life. Kiama

WolfSpirit	27 Aug 2003
Hm, I think most members of AT love reading books, digesting meanings, discussing it here, myself included. I love reading books, I love to learn by reading. I don't know if it is the best way to learn something, but my way of learning is a lot like jmd's and Kiama's. There may be lots of great intuitive readers out there who feel no need to discuss card meanings or books here. I would like to hear more from intuitive readers :) I think most here could learn from them.

mercenary30	27 Aug 2003
Personally, I am quite torn at the moment on this exact subject. Umbrae's article was so insightful and made so much sense to me, that I want to be able to just let the cards speak, through me. The problem is, I am just not good at that. I don't know what colors mean what, or what a specific animal symbolizes. The red rose versus the white ones......all things that people point to for meanings in cards. Some of these cards don't 'speak' to me. (mainly the court cards in the minors) So I have to seriously struggle with that. What I am doing, is reading, and reading, and listening to you all here. I do have a page in my journal for each card, as instructed by Umbrae, and putting in my own interpretations of cards, based on visuals and readings. I just have this primal need to validate myself (that is the Leo in me). I hate working with something and not knowing for sure if I am headed in the right direction or not.

AmounrA	27 Aug 2003
My personal view on this subject is that books are the life experience of some one else. If you have trust and respect for the person and there work, chances are you are on similar wavelength. Many books are development of previous books [or another’s life work], like Crowley for example. He wrote a wonderful book to go with the Thoth deck, yet many other authors have since written books for Thoth. Personally Thoth is the only deck I use, so I should in theory have an interest in these other books…. but I don’t. I don’t perceive them as being needed. However if some one else gets value out of reading them, then I guess they are justified. Tarot and books on Tarot are in my mind like the Whale and the suckerfish. The Whale does not need the suckerfish to exist, but they both do each other a favour. The Suckerfish keeps the whale clean and fresh .In return gets food and security. At no point is the magick and meaning of the whale affected by the suckerfish. The Tarot lives and has meaning without words and instructions. Another view is that when you read a book, you are meant to be reading it. I have often wanted books for years, had the opportunity to buy them, and haven’t. Perhaps a few years later I will buy and read them. How often the book will be surrounded by synchronicities of a similar nature during and after reading is actually funny! I wonder if you got two people [identical twins] who had never seen or heard of Tarot. Gave one person a tarot deck, then sending them off for 3 years, 3 months & 3 days in a secluded cottage, then giving the other a tarot deck and 55 books on Tarot, sending them off to live in a Tarot commune for the same amount of time. Who do you think after the time has elapsed would have a better understanding of the Tarot Deck?

Melvis	27 Aug 2003
I think a hard step in the beginning of one's learning curve with the cards is learning to read without consulting a book for every single card. For me that step came when I would read the meaning of a card and a little voice inside me would say, "But that's not what the card means in this reading, though!" Learning to trust that voice as my own intuition was a big, but necessary, step. Once you've been reading for a while I believe it's another big step to be able to go back to the books on a regular basis. Going back to the books allows the ideas of other readers to blend with those you've developed through your own intuition, providing fertile ground for further insights. Using Kiama's allegory, I believe it's the interplay between the High Priestess and the Hierophant within the reader that allows one's intuition to grow. Wonderful thread, jmd! Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

rota	27 Aug 2003
"But where does one learn intuitive readings? Where do we learn to read from the heart and not the head? Can we have some examples you cry?" ++++++++ This is a little like the Nature vs. Nurture argument or Chicken-and-Egg: attempting to separate one from the other, thinking to determine some kind of mechanical linkage, goes pretty much nowhere. They operate together. You can make an argument for a totally intuitional reading of Tarot spreads, ignoring all the book-learnin', and be a wonderful reader of cards. You can even make an argument for *only* using book-learning, becoming merely an oracular channel, and be a wonderful reader of cards. But most of us are going to say that some Instruction and some Intuition each will be required. We know Instruction takes time, and seems like a burden and a grind. Intuition also takes time; it only *seems* to appear out of nowhere, brilliant like a nova; it grows like anything else. In this, I sorta compare Tarot to other arts, such as painting or dance or poetry or architecture. One can have an infinite amount of *talent* for painting, yet without adequate schooling in perspective, anatomy, color theory, art history and whatnot, you the beginning painter will be working in a void, and having to reinvent techniques on your own. Why not take simply four years of your life, learn a few of those basics thoroughly, and THEN go on to become an amazing painter? Those four years are no burden and no restriction, really. They're fun. In art school, the phrase used to be -- you gotta learn the rules before you can break them. I feel Tarot is rather like that. Nothing happens from nowhere. Even intuition has to be backed up by experience. It seems important to me to spend time absorbing history and opinion and background from every source, learning both the gestalt and the uses of the cards from your chosen teachers (Case, Waite, BOTA, Crowley, whoever). The time spent on Instruction is like water and sunshine to a seed, and the Intuition that comes from it has the benefit of a fairly solid foundation, grounded in the consensus of generations of Tarot scholars.

AmounrA	27 Aug 2003
The egg came first :-)

Elle	27 Aug 2003
I think what helps the intuitive reading of cards is validation by the querent. You start to speak what you see in the spread, and the querent pushes you along with his/her responses. Then you just go with the flow. People (querents) find meaning in your words; they can apply what you say to their life. Don't you find that the process goes this way, generally? In the beginning, we all started with "the Little White Book" or other books in order to get our minds around the meanings of the cards. Over time, you will find yourself reaching for the books less and less - this takes trust in yourself and in the knowledge you have already accumulated. Trust. Trust youself and your querent... Warmest, Elle

Mimers	27 Aug 2003
I love the way my 9 year old daughter reads. The other day, I did a one card spread. The question was, "what is my purpose in life?". My daughter asked me if I could teach her a spread and I said sure! I told her to ask her question out loud and pick a card from her deck (She uses the Fey deck). She drew the 5 of Pentacles. She looked at it for a few moments and then asked me what it meant. She picked up the card to show it to me and I told her not to. I told her to describe it to me, then I asked her to describe how she thought the characters in the card felt. Here is her description as best I can remember: There are some fairies in a nice warm cozy livingroom and they are all happy because they are friends and they are together. Oh look at the poor little monster outside. He is sad and lonely. He wants to be their friend, but he thinks they will be afraid of him. I think he is really nice. Then I reminded her of her question (the same as mine), what is my purpose in life? and I said, how does the card descibe what you are here to do? She said that she is here to make friends with people that don't have friends. She will make sure that no one is left out even if they are not cool. She also said that she is going to invite people over to play more. I told her that she just told me the meaning of the card. I have read many books, but I really don't disipline myself to any definition that I have learned. I let my impressions speak first. However, If I am drawing a blank, the learned meanings are a good way to get my intuition going. I think a balance is good. Mimers

Alissa	27 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by rota In art school, the phrase used to be -- you gotta learn the rules before you can break them. Yeah, in dance I've heard ... you need a solid foundation in technique in order to forget it all once you're performing, so you can just *dance* the dance. That makes a nice analogy to tarot, I think. (And, right now I am in a long phase of reading, after years and years of both book leanring and intuitive reading, where I can't make heads or tails of my cards half the time, so I'm not speaking from any glorious sense of personal achievement with my own reading skills in the above statement :D).

HOLMES	28 Aug 2003
from learning the cards, to understanding the cards to only seeing in my case the needs to learn more such as aspect of psychology , zen, spiritual topics, numerology and astrology to applying them to the tarot... to people saying these can be applied to the tarot for it is it's own system, i would concur halfway example in the system i currently use, i use a simple system of relating the cards by adding, and subtracting the face numbers and applying them to minors as a whole cycle of understanding, and the court cards are used to be understood by me qabalistically, but there is so much more to learn , to understand .. yet all that i have learn as i apply it to the tarot only serves to expand the tarot meanings i have learned and not to surpass them. or to say they have no meaning for astrologically speaking,, (then one would be focusing on astrology and giving an astrology reading eh ?) instead i now realize that all we learn , and undertand about the tarot we have to apply to our lives if only to learn and understand ourselves on a level we ca not using the ways of the world as it pertains to having no tarot understanding. and i realize that in this understanding as we strive to understand the tarot deeper and more in dept ,, we strive to understnad ourselves ( or ideally so ) as well in depth , while realizing that the truths of the tarot are still the basis for our whole understanding, and so the truth of our whole beliefs system also comes from our own heart. some tarot readers come from fear, ,, from attacks,, and some come from love and acceptance, these speak of their own heart, it is the ideal hope that the tarot and the signs it points as we apply them to our live will help us change dark aspects of our hearts ,,and to expand the light in our heart to see yes i must learn more,, understand more if only to learn more about myself.

Elle	28 Aug 2003
..and have the courage to truly "see" what is there inside ourselves, in those we read, from the cards... Warmest, Elle

Summerdream	28 Aug 2003
What a great post!!! I learned over 2 years ago using Joan Bunning's "Learning the Tarot" book as a guide and using my own intuition to help me uncover more meaning. I think when one first starts to learn the tarot her book is A++++. She challenges the reader to do their own excercises and find their own meanings, not just recite out of the book word for word. I have a friend who reads out of a book word for word because she never learned what the cards represented. I own 44 decks and every deck that offers a companion book to go with it, I buy it. I believe I learn a little more each time I read a book but I don't follow it to the letter. Once again, I incorporate what is useful and throw out what is not. Sometimes I will read a author's viewpoint and something really clicks. When I am doing readings, however I do not pull out the book. I do it solely on what I feel the cards are telling me. I believe a good knowlegde from the books can be beneficial but the individual must use them only as a supplement, not rely on them fully. Momof3girls

Aun	28 Aug 2003
As I consider myself relatively new to Tarot, I find it hard to move on at this point without refering to books, online articles, and MAINLY this forum. However, I feel that my intuitive concepts are improving in a fast pace through practicing, but not without that kind of support. I belive that each author 's (or any other person's) concept of the cards always add to the spectrum of meanings that I am currently building. Thats how I feel. Sometimes I agree with what i read, and sometimes I dont. Thats how it goes. Peace.

MeeWah	28 Aug 2003
Mercenary30 et al: There is *no* one "right" way as there are many approaches that can work for each person. What can contribute to the learning & then the understanding are techniques such as working with a daily card, journalling & keeping a running record of card meanings as they strike ye. Card meanings are fluid, & may not appear with quite the same meaning depending on the moment or surrounding cards. 'Tis a learning experience in itself to see how card meanings can change. Personally have not read much of Tarot books. I did, however, write my own meanings for every card in the RWS deck before I read any book, mainly because the Arthur Waite book & another by Eden Gray left me cold (but I have since acquired some appreciation for Waite's book). I used familarity with numbers & playing card meanings as inspiration, but I found the meanings of the latter oft differ greatly from the impressions of Tarot cards so I could not rely on those. The daily card & journalling have been of the most help. Also, doing readings. Can also see the validity in reading Tarot books; however, there is something to be said for reading books on various subjects, related or otherwise to gain a well-rounded thought pattern & to expand the thought process. From those varied sources of materials, one can absorb information that is deposited into the consciousness. This collective body of knowledge can contribute towards providing the understanding & the associations.

Cerulean	29 Aug 2003
I've been paring down tarot-wise on books because I'm finding what makes me happier in terms of certain learning. I do enjoy looking at Oswald Wirth and Thoth occult decks--in some instances I can apply what the cards mean to me. And because many enjoy the Rider-Waite styles of pictures and meanings, it is useful for me to learn their common and deck-driven associations. But what I think I understand best--because I believe these decks allow for more flexibility--is a nice historical Italian reproduction based on the Milanese patterns. Or a theme deck with Marseilles ordering. The books that have stayed with me best are the two Gareth Knight texts where Marseilles patterns are used. Oswald Wirth and other picture examples are referenced---but only the Marseilles styles are pictured. The imagination is guided through exercises. The end of the book suggests making one own's deck as a final project--and I like this very much. I think doing card designs really give the best of both worlds--helping one take the learning in a new way, to a better understanding. My best learning this year came when I tried to design a Temperance card that followed old Italian models. The Di Gumppenberg designs worked the best for me--and I began to understand what I liked best in tarot designs.

The From learning to understanding thread was originally posted on 26 Aug 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.