Help with reframing request,please!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

greengoddess	16 Sep 2003
Greetings, Gentle People! Most of my friends continue to ask for things i can't ethically do: third party readings, the future, dates that something might occur. Recently, a coworker asked: Tell me about the length of time my Mom has (dying). I reframed this by asking the tarot what their "work" was together during this time. How would others have handled it? Same person wanted to know if her fiancee whas coming back, and would get his act together. Would they get married? Again I reframed it by asking the Tarot what the focus and gifts of their relationship was at this time, and what "energies of the Universe" were at play. All ideas welcomed!!! greengoddess

Marion	16 Sep 2003
Hi greengoddess! I am moving your interesting question to talking Tarot where it is sure to generate some discussion. Your Readings is specifically to post your own tarot throws and ask for comments from the other readers on the Forum. Marion

Tallarico	16 Sep 2003
Greengoddess I believe your rephrasing was perfectly constructed!

HudsonGray	16 Sep 2003
I agree. People want hard facts, not realizing their actions totally affect outcomes between now and then. Refocusing them on the hows & why's instead of the dates is much better for them & gives them something to work with. If they insist, you'll have to stick to your guns & tell them it just doesn't work that way, if it did you'd be getting the lottery numbers right every week & be a rich person.

Lee	16 Sep 2003
I agree with that kind of rephrasing. But, I do have a suggestion, and that is that most of the time, we should rephrase the question to ourselves, in other words don't tell the client you're going to rephrase their question, but simply do the reading as an answer to the rephrasing you've done in your own mind, if you see what I mean. I think it might alienate the client if you imply to them that their question is no good. I know that's not what we mean but they might take it that way. If they complain that you didn't answer their question, then you could explain to them why you couldn't. -- Lee :)

Diana	17 Sep 2003
I would have answered her question (to the best of my abilities). As timing is rather difficult in Tarot, I would have done my best, i.e. "very very soon", "soon", "not yet" "still got a long way to go". Some tarologues are able to pin-point dates more exactly. I cannot. I would have warned the person about my inability and, as I have said, done my best. Having had people dying around me, (there are two at the moment), I know how important it can be to know when they are going to die. It makes things a lot easier to know. After having answered the querent's legitimate question to the best of my abilities, I would then have asked them if they wanted a spread on their final days together. Sometimes I get bewildered why certain questions "shouldn't" be answered by the Tarot. I've noticed that a lot on Aeclectic. And in some of the more new-agey Tarot books. One always has to ask the Tarot about deep, philosophical stuff. Why? It's like "yes" "no" questions. They seem to be a kind of a no-no. I don't see why. There is no such thing as a silly question.

catlin	17 Sep 2003
The only questions I consider as silly are questions like "Will I be a lotto millionnaire?" , "Do I have to die?" etc. I usually tell my querents well before not to ask such questions.

Kiama	17 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Sometimes I get bewildered why certain questions "shouldn't" be answered by the Tarot. I've noticed that a lot on Aeclectic. And in some of the more new-agey Tarot books. One always has to ask the Tarot about deep, philosophical stuff. Why? It's like "yes" "no" questions. They seem to be a kind of a no-no. I don't see why. I agree with Diana on this one, but I also think the way you rephrased the questions, greengoddess, was excellent. If you are uncomfortable reading about questions such as these Diana talks about, it is cool to rephrase them. Some people just don't feel that reading for such question is 'allowed' or that it is possible. Until recently I thought yes-no questions were impossible, but now they're the readings I do most frequently! The great thing about using Tarot to answer yes-no questions, is that not only do you see yes or no, but you can also examine the effects and things around the reason why it is yes or no. For instance, 'Will I have a good time at my party?' is answered by the Queen of Wands: to me, this is a definite yes, and it also tells me that the party is going to be excellent, and I'm going to be the life-and-soul of it. :D As of yet, I haven't had to delve into doing 'timeline' readings, but I can see theoretically how they would work. Depending on the card you get, you just think about that card in relation to the time. For instance, I'd say the Knight of Swords is a 'now' or 'fairly soon' kind of card, whilst the 3 of Wands is the 'wait and see' card and therefore the 'might be a while yet' kind of card. As for specific dates, I don't think that is possible unless: a) One is psychic aswell and can use one's abilities to pinpoint exact dates. b) One has a date-finding system within the deck. (The Quest Tarot is an example). However, I think that since the future is always in motion, maybe trying to pinpoint exact dates would be a little pointless anyway, since it is likely not to happen: it is such an exact thing, and the slightest effect can change it radically. Whereas with effects or events, I think it takes more to change them. In conclusion, I think I'd do what Diana suggested: try to answer the querent's question to the best of my ability, but tell the, that I am not particularly good at doing so, and give them the reasons why. I'd then offer to do an extra reading which is more my forté: one about the effects, events, feelings, etc. Blessings, Kiama

MeeWah	17 Sep 2003
GreenGoddess: I think ye have a fine understanding & rephrased the questions appropriately. I usually try to answer the question as expressed though it depends upon the nature of the inquiry. Regarding the issue of third-party readings: if an inquiry concerns a relationship, usually the cards *do* address the other party & can describe intent & possibilities. My view is that anything that is given is to be considered. Of course, the information needs to be communicated in a responsible manner. Regarding the future: that can be tricky & may depend on the phrasing of a question as well as to the spread used. A throw can be done to include the operative time frame of within days, weeks or months. The spread used may lend itself better to time configurations, but it does not always. In the Celtic Cross version I use, the card designated as the "Immediate future" oft gives a view. I also use an extended version that includes a timing card but that canna always be relied upon as things change; are constantly evolving according to the individual. Also, regardless of whether there is a time element involved, any spread can give an impression--it depends on how one tends to see the overall result. I do not have a set system of divining time or dates, but oft rely on the type of cards or just whatever comes to mind. On occasion, it may be the suit &/or the number of a card in no particular position. This free-style has produced fairly accurate results based on feedback. As for the yes-no questions: again, it depends on the view of the reader & how one sees the resulting cards; possibly also the type of spread & *the nature of the query*. Any spread that gives a view of the situation or an analysis of *the aspects underlying same* can provide information to contribute to an assessment, which is why I tend to see a throw in layers. Keep in mind that the aside from the on-going choices of the querent, outside influences which are not under one's control also affect a possible outcome. The "answer" need not be complex, but fairly to the point or in the face, too. At times, I get an impression just with the question alone, but for the purposes of the reading process & to enlighten the querent with all that may be involved, a spread is more expressive.

Lee	17 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Sometimes I get bewildered why certain questions "shouldn't" be answered by the Tarot. I've noticed that a lot on Aeclectic. And in some of the more new-agey Tarot books. One always has to ask the Tarot about deep, philosophical stuff. Why? It's like "yes" "no" questions. They seem to be a kind of a no-no. I don't see why. There is no such thing as a silly question. You know, I think Diana makes a good point here. I do think some questions need to be rephrased (if only to oneself), but at the same time, another part of me feels that the client is coming to us with a question and they deserve to have the question answered. Who are we to say whether a question is an appropriate or inappropriate one? I obviously don't have the solution to this dilemma, but it's certainly an interesting question. I think the best way to handle it is on a case-by-case, common-sense basis. -- Lee

Diana	17 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by catlin The only questions I consider as silly are questions like "Will I be a lotto millionnaire?" , "Do I have to die?" etc. I usually tell my querents well before not to ask such questions. You know catlin, I had to laugh here. One of the first questions I asked my Gypsy fortune teller some years ago, was whether I would ever win the lottery. She was not able to answer the question directly. However, she assured me that I will never be rich :( and that I am wasting my time playing the lottery. Since then, my husband and kid do not let me choose the numbers when we play together... :laugh: I have to buy my own tickets! (I still do occasionally, because even if I know I will never win the million, who knows, I may win the ten-thousand and that would be nice too.) The question "Do I have to die" is very funny, and perhaps it would be advisable to ask the querent to rephrase it slightly. ;)

Kiama	17 Sep 2003
I was thinking about this thread, and I realised that there is one kind of question I would rephrase... It's the question somebody asks about their choice, e.g, what they will do in the near future. One guy wanted a reading from me, and his question was: "Will I be using magic unethically and for selfish purposes next month?" With questions like these, I don't even think we need to draw any cards, but instead ask the querent, 'Well, what do you think the answer is?' Kiama

MeeWah	17 Sep 2003
Kiama: It sounds more like the guy was expecting to do something dubious or had an inkling of the temptations & wanted to know the possible repercussions :D

Nevada	17 Sep 2003
I would say that there's a fine line to tread here. Coming from a customer service background I think that if you're reading for pay you need to seriously consider the querent's actual question and if you do rephrase it get their buy in on the rephrasing. On the other hand if as the reader you feel strongly that you need to rephrase, then you need to in order to get a good reading. For that reason I would say you were correct in your rephrasing. When I started reading Tarot for myself, I used yes/no questions all the time. I don't as much now, but sometimes even in other types of questions, a card says very clearly, almost shouts, yes or no. I think no question should be considered improper, or unreadable unless it's so unclear as to prevent understanding or a definitive answer. And even then, as you know, the cards sometimes give us puzzling answers! I see no problem with third party readings. At one time when my mom was dying, there were some very strange things going on, and I would like to have had a reading about how much time she had. But I also think there are a lot of variables when someone is very ill. That's a time when the tiniest thing can affect their health in profound ways. It's tricky. Doctors who are experienced are often wrong about this. Either they don't know when to give up and let someone go, or the person surprises them by holding on much longer than anyone thought they could. Sometimes I've wondered if there isn't more free will involved than we think in the timing of someone's death.

Diana	17 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Nevada34 But I also think there are a lot of variables when someone is very ill. That's a time when the tiniest thing can affect their health in profound ways. It's tricky. (..........) Sometimes I've wondered if there isn't more free will involved than we think in the timing of someone's death. Rhiannon But that's just it. The Tarot knows all these variables..... It even knows that we are going to do a reading on it and that the reading may affect the outcome.

Nevada	17 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana But that's just it. The Tarot knows all these variables..... It even knows that we are going to do a reading on it and that the reading may affect the outcome. Yes, you're right, Diana. I believe that. So asking the direct question about time, with a disclaimer to the querent that reading time is tricky, as you said, would be appropriate.

catti	17 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lee part of me feels that the client is coming to us with a question and they deserve to have the question answered. Who are we to say whether a question is an appropriate or inappropriate one? -- Lee i have to side with this point of view. I usually talk with someone before hand, offering for suggestions for types of questions. but what ever they say is what goes. then i state the question to make sure that we are both asking the same thing, if they look at me funny or what ever then i ask if that wasnt the question/ it was? Lets say they are still stuck on the yes/no , does he love me , etc..question. I try and adjust my spread to the question and do my best....I feel like i am just a coduit..who said that we are midwives for the tarot? I cant tell people what to ask what not to ask...goodness knows i ask some strange questions myself!

Aerin	18 Sep 2003
I think this is a question that each person needs to answer for themselves, in line with their own beliefs and values. I am uncomfortable with the idea that one person can answer it on behalf of another, even though they can obviously comment from their point of view. So please take my comments in that context. For example, if I were to answer (say) 'Will I marry person X in 2 months' would not sit well with either my belief that it is important not to hand over your life to the cards, or my belief that the future is not set in stone (I tend to think of a reading as providing 'probables given the situation now' and not definites. Even if I did answer it, I would be very incongruent about it and might end up answering a rephrased question anyway. Now, these are my (strongly held) beliefs, I don't claim them to be true but I do claim them as mine. They may change, that's where I am at the moment though. So, I prefer to set my position to the querent and give them a choice - they can seek someone else to ask, we can rephrase the question together. I would never say 'your question is inappropriate', rather 'your question is one that I, personally, am not comfortable in answering as it stands and this is why - others might feel differently'. From where I am sitting, the way that you handle the questions you fell you cannot read with as they stand is fine. I don't really like the idea of rephrasing and not telling people, it seems a little disrespectful to me in that it removes their choice. Aerin

The Help with reframing request,please! thread was originally posted on 16 Sep 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.