world events and there trumps?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Dark_angel |
07 Sep 2003 |
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I'd agree with that, but not just for the US government. I think those two cards are applicable to a great deal of modern international politics. But not in a positive way; there's so much destruction and avarice going on, and not enough creation and generosity. Another card that springs to mind is Justice from the Vertigo deck - when people take justice into their own hands, a truly unjust outcome (war, death) can come of it.
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| AmounrA |
07 Sep 2003 |
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Yes, an interesting thought that if ,say, the justice card was a real power to be held on Earth, who holds it? Is it the U.N or the worlds one remaining superpower?
After reading that article, by a former British cabinet minster, I would like to have put it down to the fool card. But I think that is the card that applies to us, unempowered citizens.
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| Diana |
07 Sep 2003 |
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I see no Tower here.... none at all. Neither upright, nor reversed.
I immediately saw an Emperor. Tyranny and despotism. A dictator.
Next to the Emperor, on the left, I saw the Moon. Murky muddy water, with a crab (cancer) crawling out between two howling wolves. Lies, thievery, confusion.
And to the Moon's left, I saw the World. Superficial, isolated, abandoned.......
And I feel the icy hand of fear on my heart. And despair too, because it is too late.
But I see no Tower.
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| AmounrA |
07 Sep 2003 |
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Diana, I fear too, because it does seem to be to late now. The cards you felt, make perfect sense also.
I have done a bit of research , and on this link you go straight to the 'Project for the New American Century' website-
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
The following link leads straight to the report called "Rebuilding America's Defences" written in 2000 , and cited so powerfully in my original posts article.-
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
I wonder if the High Priestess card has any hope against 'the emperor', or will the corrupted tower of our civilizations power holders resist the lightning?
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| Inana |
08 Sep 2003 |
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Mmmmh... devil is the king, chained to power, spiting money from his mouth, walking over the mankind heads and playing with the Wheel of Fortune making spin it like if it was one of those "diavolo" juggling sing. In the meanwhile... ordinary people battling to take control in their Chariots or sleeping.
Thats the world in the XXI Century, not only the events related to war. By the way, have you noticed This century has to be in theory the "World Century"? I mean it because of the number... funny thought.
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| marlowe |
09 Sep 2003 |
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some very interesting links there, amoun - this is a subject that greatly interests me, and I think a lot more people should get involved in informing themselves on the subject, instead of lazily relying on a corrupt mass media and a corrupt government
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| Diana |
10 Sep 2003 |
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marlowe: How many people do you think WANT to know the truth? And that is the perhaps the most terrible and frightening thing of all.
Brecht once said something like this: "The people have failed the government. Let us elect a new people."
Tarot.... we read Tarot to find out about ourselves. But what is the point of knowing who we are, if we do not know anything about the world we are supposed to interact with. How selfish.....
Today, Wednesday 10 of September, there are approximately 40'000 people who will die of hunger.
Can Tarot help these people?
AmounrA: There is no High Priestess in my throw. And the Tower will UNFORTUNATELY not crumble (yet......).
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| Inana |
10 Sep 2003 |
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Originally posted by AmounrA
Perhaps if this is the World card century, there is a happier end to it than the first 3 years . I guess the last century would have been the Judgement card
Ye, we still have 97 years left to make things better... ;) i dont know if makes any sense relate the number of the century with a Major Arcana. Was just a thought while writing... Has the XX century showed Judgment qualities? Im not sure, but last years people seems to be more "awakened" maybe...
Originally posted by AmounrA
The tarot is all about truth. When projecting tarot onto the world, it seems the cards which make most sense, are negative cards or more negative facets of the cards.
Nobody is very optimistic with the world situation or the future of mankind an Earth, but this is nothing new. Is the human way of thought, has been always this way. Im that way too.
Have to give a look to those links. Thanks for sharing.
Originally posted by Diana
Today, Wednesday 10 of September, there are approximately 40'000 people who will die of hunger.
Can Tarot help these people?
Tarot cant do nothing about these people, but we can. The world is the way that is because the people who live on it (thats everyone of us) make it this way. We can not only blame governments and do nothing to change the things. Every little act can help, even if you think it doesnt count for nothing in the final balance. Call me a dreamer, but its better to beat the stabilshed wall than to rest with our shoulders on it...
And dont say is selfish to want to know ourselves better. Im sure if everyone were knowing fine ourselves, we would be able to interact better and make the world a better place.
But better i shut up, i understand the feeling about what you are saying.
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| Diana |
10 Sep 2003 |
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Inana: I hear you.....
But the fact is that I have noticed time and time again that there are people who, for example, get more upset about having a missing Tarot card in their deck, than the 40'000 people who died of starvation today.
If Tarot leads us only to our inner World, and not the outer World, then there's a dimension missing.
Shouldn't Tarot be connecting us to ALL things?
Couldn't we also do a weekly, or daily, or monthly Tarot spread and ask: "What is the best way I can reach out to the world today?" Do our Tarot spreads always have to concern our little selves?
Perhaps they could teach us that the little Arab kid is just as important as the little American kid. Yes, even if he IS a Muslim (gasp!).
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| Indigo_lady |
10 Sep 2003 |
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I came to terms long time ago with the fact that I will not solve word hunger, opression, violence, or tyranic regimes (at least not the big ones)
I know though, that I can lend a helping hand to everyone I can see needs one. I know I can be a responsible and respectful productive member of the society and the community I live in.
And I am certain that will make a difference, and set an example, hopefully starting a domino effect
As crude as this may sound (and I know I will regret ir afterwards for saying it), if anyone needs to wait for a Tarot card to tell them that a little Arab kid is as important as, not only an American kid, but as any kid out there, it is sickening
If you can't help yourself you can't help anyone around you, if you don't know yourself you can never get to know anyone around you.
I don't think it's selfish, I think it is part of the process of recovering our lost humanity
Part of the problem is that the value of human beings and their potential has been totally destroyed over the last 2 centuries. Our self esteem and sense of purpose has been crushed (by our own kind sadly enough) for us to believe that we are not trully capable of making a difference. Great acts are only those of extensive self sacrifice and penance, and human beings in their core are evil selfish beings, with only 2 or 3 exceptions in mankind's history being able of helping others around them.
And since none of us is any of those saintly characters we might as well move on with our pityful mediocre lives, whether it's in a 60 mill dollar mansion in Dubai or living in a manhole in the streets of Colombia
Every human being has their flaws and we have to learn to accept them and improve them, and it's a very bumpy ride
A mother who's capable of providing a nurturing, loving and caring environment for her children is as much of a hero as a the a doctor who has found a cure for a life threatening disease, because both, within their possibilities, resources and abilities have changed lives, achieved greatness and fullfilled their potential
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| AmounrA |
10 Sep 2003 |
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My real point is that it’s to late now. It’s out of our hands. Do what thou wilt!
Here in the west [where i am] the state is soon going to have 24 ‘security’ cameras covering most of the country, I .D cards, which will lead into a society where actual money [10-15 years] does not exist…’money’ will be transferred from account to account, and will be on ‘cards’. Therefore everything you, we buy will be on a computer somewhere. What materials chosen to be flagged are up to security services. Fewer and fewer people are already controlling Media companies, and as Marlow implied, this is NOT healthy. This includes publishers. The bigger companies only see Dollar signs on everything. Information is the key to manipulation. At the moment the enemies seem to be ‘ the Muslims’, but this is this is simple the system. The enemy is within.
The links I gave where only to show how open the net is. To the seriously rich families, who control this planet, through ‘business’ more than any government, we minions are needed to work and to consume. I am from the west; so I get the chocolate, while most of the world eat mustard. The number one arms dealer on Earth is the United States of America. The second is the United Kingdom. We are the bad guys, as I am sure the people of Cambodia will testify. [500,000 killed by covert american b52 bombing]
The motto of success is easy ‘DIVIDE AND RULE’…and boy o’ boy they are masters at dividing. To bring tarot into Earth…’they’ hold the cards.
Do the cards point to humans, the most cunning of the primates, as a failure? Is the tree of life dying?
Or does a belief that the Tarot work, imply the existence of bigger forces? If so where are they? Is the only hope of finding utopia now only within the mind? Is the external world lost? Has the ‘devil’ got the sheep?
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| alexisyael |
10 Sep 2003 |
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wow, this is a weird thread (in the traditional meaning of the word; look it up in an old dictionary)... just last night I did a tarot reading for myself (first "real" one with a new deck) and the outcome was the Tower (reversed). Doesn't make much sense in regard to my life so I pulled a card to clarify -- guess who? The Devil (also reversed). [ok, maybe i hadn't quite shuffled enough yet:d]
And I was just thinking tonight while I was walking my dog that maybe this reading wasn't about me at all, but maybe it was a reflection of the world. The cards do this to me sometimes, even during other people's readings...
Oh yeah, and the "obstacle?" Justice!
I can apply it to my life, but it also fits the world right now, dontcha think?
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| Umbrae |
11 Sep 2003 |
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It’s so easy to blame (Queen of Swords).
Blame governments. That’s easy.
Finding mass media examples to support a paper argument (Moon), is very easy.
“Pick a card any card” and you can find a vision to match.
But what do you do – to change, it…the world, its situations, its values, those around you? (Tower)
Do you wave a placard? Disseminate hate in the name of reason?
Justify your opinions? (Justice)
If all you have is a voice – your chair is getting cold. If you want to tell me what you do (8 of Pentacles) – I want to listen.
It does not matter how poor you are, you can still be kind. It does not cost anything. Perhaps those you are kind to are not kind back. At least you know you tried to leave the world a better place, even if all you could afford was a smile.
You can spread love or you can spread distrust. One is easy, the other difficult.
The World is your mirror…
What you are filled with, you will see – and bring to the table. They always said, be careful what you wish for…
I’ve always said, “just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.”
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| AmounrA |
11 Sep 2003 |
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alexisyael, I'm not sure if its a nice synchronicity, but it seems to be a meaningful co-incidence. :-)
Umbrae, I agree in a sense, and dis-agree in another.
Mass media is in a worst state than ever before. Goverments serve Buisness, not the people. One of the worst nations for spreading Torture, war and injustice is the United States of America. Reich is a interesting case.-
http://wilhelmreichmuseum.org/
You can spread the Emotional plague.
Being kind to people does achieve results in our personal lives, but overall state of humanity is not helped. My belief is if the mass population gets to much empowerment, war starts, and the young get called up and sent to fight 'that' war.
Recently the Chinese leader was in London. All free Tibet protesters [peaceful] where arrested, to ensure the Chinese leader saw no protests against his nations human rights record....meanwhile the Chinese leader had tea with the Queen and dinner with Tony Blair. The WTO protests are similar. The people protest.....and are arrested or kept at a great distance from the 'decision amkers'....invariably from private schools. Bilderburg meetings are even worst, released information is zero, debate involving citizens is zero, people present...the most powerful.
Be as kind as you want, but it won't bring global justice.....and time is running out....as it did for 500,000 Cambodian killed by U.S bombing, and the further 2,000,000 killed by U.S supported Kamer Rouge. Thats a lot of dead people, mostly civilians.
Can humanity survive the 21st century? How far are we as a species from the death card?
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| Umbrae |
11 Sep 2003 |
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Only the Magician attempts to change the world.
The Fool knows that you can only change yourself – and lead by example…(The Star). Changing a few here and a few there. Here a community there a town. A City over yonder and nation…
Preaching despair serves no good – it serves only the Moon.
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| Ruby Red Slippers |
11 Sep 2003 |
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Umbrae.......
AMEN
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| AmounrA |
11 Sep 2003 |
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AMEN,.......AMEN RE. Hidden light show yourself!!!
'Only the Magician attempts to change the world.'
Come on, this is mere word play. Umbrae, I dis-agree :-). Self Delusion serves no-one, although to be fair, there is quite a lot of evidence that the 'plasibo effect' is real.
The fools knows nothing, it mearly floats down the river. Oblivious.
'Preaching despair serves no good – it serves only the Moon.'
On one level I agree with half of that , in reality it has no effect on those who serve no good.
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The world events and there trumps? thread was originally posted on 07 Sep 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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