cards tell us future or our imagination?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Oct 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kether__	11 Oct 2003
Dear friends: during th few years I am experimenting with Tarot, I have proved myself, that it often reflect, in the spreads, the fears and hopes of our mind, rather than a credible inage of future. Carl Gustav Jung also says that, as I have read from his works about. I mean: If you are worried, the Tarot will display cards meaning worrying, if you´re hoped, good cards will appear. I f it is so, which lessons should we extract from this? If we-for instance- are sad and hopeless because the attitude of our partner towars us, and we ask to Tarot for the future developing of the relationship and the Tarot reflects in bad cards all our sadness, hopeless and fear, we could fall into misleading if we interprete that Tarot is telling us to give up the relationship. what is your opinion?

catti	11 Oct 2003
hello kether :) TAROT has been interpreted as "ta- rot "( i read that somewhere) the road, meaning only a map is provided , that it is up to everyone to choose the way they will go....i always try and remember myself and impress on people i read for , if you see a future or things you dont like then dont despair, take it as a warning ,a sign, change what you can.. that is alot easier said than done , of course, but that is why it is only a tool.. and then there are the truly predicative readings..where the thing turned out just as your future ,outcome, goal cards said it would...regardless of your apparent effort to change....but do any of us ever "know" with no doubts whatsoever that they are seeing the future.. i think that is why it is so difficult to read "relationship' spreads or questions for yourself...non specific daily readings are much more effective personal tools. of course probably 90 % of peoples initial experiences with Tarot involve love or loved ones or would be loved ones...to me it is the same thing as the love spell or love potion trap...sooner or later you realize that it just isnt worth it even if it works..

Aoife	11 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kether__ I mean: If you are worried, the Tarot will display cards meaning worrying, if you´re hoped, good cards will appear. This pre-supposes two things: 1. That cards have fixed meanings 2. That a card is either good or bad. I take the view that there is no such thing as 'good' and 'bad' cards - that all the cards carry the full spectrum of light and darkness. I also believe that whilst each card suggests a theme, what it 'means' is determined by a variety of factors including, what other cards surround it, what was the question asked, and most importantly, what my intuition tells me. I suspect that many of us have experienced some initial anxiety if a certain card appears in a certain position in relation to a certain question - just as much as many of us will have smiled to see the 2 of cups appear in the outcome position of a relationship reading. The challenge for me, though, is to pay heed to my mood when drawing the cards and my first reactions to the cards drawn, but then allow myself the time and space to 'look beyond'.

Diana	11 Oct 2003
I really think that Tarot gives us what we want.... We create our own reality, so people say. Now my experience has been quite the opposite of yours, Kether. My experience with Tarot has been that it shows the future very accurately. I use it just as much as a fortune-telling tool as a tool for personal development. I have found both to be quite satisfactory. Because I WANT it to be a fortune-telling tool, so it gives me what I want. See what I mean? However, I have not found that the Tarot reflects my mood - UNLESS I ask it to explain my mood to me. Now if the Tarot tells me that I am heading for a divorce. It is accurately telling me what will happen if I continue behaving such as I do in my relationship. So I ask then "what must I do to change this future?" And the Tarot will give me the answer..... Sometimes it will tell me that the path I am on is inevitable. Then I am better prepared.

Kether__	11 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife This pre-supposes two things: 1. That cards have fixed meanings 2. That a card is either good or bad. I take the view that there is no such thing as 'good' and 'bad' cards - that all the cards carry the full spectrum of light and darkness. I also believe that whilst each card suggests a theme, what it 'means' is determined by a variety of factors including, what other cards surround it, what was the question asked, and most importantly, what my intuition tells me. I didn´t express myself correctly. Yes, I know there are no bad nor good cards, depending it of many factors. I was meaning that often(and this is a subjet many people I know share with me), the Tarot readings depends sometimes of your emotional moment. Also, we know that there are cards which are closest to good interpretations than other. i.e, the World is easier to have a good meaning, than the ten of swords. Then, I see-in my personal experience and other friend´s-that this phenomenon sometimes occurs(not always), and in these cases, one doesn´t know wht is the exact advice from Tarot and what is a fear or a hope reflect from your unconscious. thanks

Alex	11 Oct 2003
My oppinion is that you're right. There's a difference between reading for self and having someone reading 4 you. If you read for yourself you just get your fears and/or hopes reflected in the cards, and you have to pray, that the right cards will come up. I mean, if the relationship is hopeless, and you get hopefull cards, you are in bad shape. But when someone reads for you, they may be able to break into your unconscious and verbalize something you have not been able to verbalize, and that is controlling you from bottom up. For example, you come to have your cards read and I notice that you are a very insecure person. I read your cards and I find in them confirmation for what I sense. If I find the right way to say it, you might finally realize, you're insecure, and then you look at your situation from another perspective. I have an idiossyncratic view of the Tarot, but I think in general it is similar to what you have said. Alex. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by Kether__ what is your opinion?

nina	12 Oct 2003
Hello, I find that your mood/ expectations/ fears tend to affect the way you interpret the cards that come up, no matter what they are. A lot of times I'll be looking up a particular card I drew's meanings in a few books and one of the sentences will really jump out at me, then that makes me think "wht did I key on this phrase? what's going on with me on a subconscious or intuitive level that would explain that?" Also I think we've all had the experience of a particular card coming up frequently during a certain period in our lives- for a while last year I kept getting The Devil in my spreads and it was really bothering me because I was trying not to hear the message. And definitely when I'm depressed I'l go to great lengths to put the most negative spin on a reading. Those are the ones that, when I reread my journal a few days later I shake my head and remind myself that I simply shouldn't do a throw in that state of mind. I don't know if the cards can tell the future, I know they've helped me a great deal in getting to know myself better. And I have had experiences where they have been eerily prescient. -nina

HudsonGray	12 Oct 2003
One of the hardest things to do is to disassociate yourself from what you 'want' when you do a reading for yourself, to give the cards & your interpretations open play. By stress and worrying, you only get that showing up in the cards. Keeping removed from it when you do the spread will give you a very different reading.

WolfSpirit	12 Oct 2003
Yes it is sometimes difficult to do readings for yourself and to detach yourself enough. It is also difficult to see how accurate you are for yourself, I guess you only learn this with experience. Someone here - I have forgotten who it was, sorry - came up with the idea of, before doing a spread, write down what you think the cards are going to be, and then lay the cards. I often think of what one card is going to be but I don't do it for a whole reading though. When I read for myself, I make the spread into an objective story first as if it is for somebody else and only then I fit it into my own circumstances. Both methods help read more objectively, but I don't know if your mood also influences what cards you draw ? I think you have to assume it does not, or it will be impossible to do readings for yourself.

matfav	12 Oct 2003
The Tarot is a cosmic mirror able to transcend time and space, body mind and spirit, as such, it is many things for many people. The answer is it will reflect what you expect from it. Nothing more, nothing less. Matfav

jmd	12 Oct 2003
There is certainly a school of thought which would make of the Tarot only a psychological reflector, and as such a useful tool for psychoanalysis, enabling one to verbalise and narrate one's own psychological state. If only this aspect became Tarot's usage, it would be a great loss. As Diana has mentioned, Tarot can provide a lense through which one may see avenues unfolding into the future. They are given, however, in the precise language of imagery, which requires the use of the developed imaginative faculty in order to properly understand its veiled analogical correspondences. Coomaraswamy, in 'The Nature of Buddhist Art', writes: Symbolism is a language and a precise form of thought; a hieratic and a metaphysical language and not a language determined by somatic or psychological categories. Its foundation is in analogical correspondences [...] symbolism is a calculus in the same sense that an adequate analogy is a proof Study, reflection, meditation, and insight are all required for the art - the calculus - of interpretation. Of course, one may have particular ontological views which precludes a proper reading of the images presented, limiting them to only moods, wishful thinking or fears. These, however, indicate not what the cards are presenting, but one rather limited reflection of the psychological state of the reader or querent.

Lady Mary	13 Oct 2003
I find it very difficult to do readings for myself. Usually I get only reflections of my fears and hopes. Once I was worried about a flight and I had also a "bad" card (10 Swords) for this day. Next question I asked was: Should I be worried about this flight? I got the 9 Swords. At this point I couldn't help smiling (a bit). It was as if the cards were telling me: Well, you want to worry, you obviously get something out of it, so worry!

WolfyJames	13 Oct 2003
I agree with Diana. I started using tarot with fortune-telling in mind, and 10 years it is still my main goal. I also use cartomancy as well. I talk with my cards, explain them the spreads and how I'm going to pick up the cards. When I shuffled them, at first when I got them, I told them:"Tell me the truth, just the truth and only the truth", I still do sometimes. Because I knew at that moment, from my mother's experiences, that strong emotions can screw up readings. I think I have a relationship with my cards and it is up to me to tell them what is going on, what I expect, what I think, always having in mind that the cards are smarter and wiser than me. Since I've been here, I've discovered that I can make more indepth readings, about myself and the others. I've started doing daily readings. So again, I ended up explaining that to my cards.

The cards tell us future or our imagination? thread was originally posted on 11 Oct 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.