A Reader's Worst Nightmare
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Ruby7 |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Shoshin, thanks for sharing that with us. I had never heard of this group before. Are they a large group in the U.S.? I was horrified reading their version of events. I don't think that Jesus would have approved, Ruby7
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| Astraea |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Oh, this just makes me cringe! These days, there is a major resurgence of the kind of ignorance and hatred within the Christian church that has fueled some its factions from the beginning of time. It is simply appalling. I wouldn't even be surprised, in this climate of violence and self-righteousness, to see crimes (which I won't name, lest I add to that whirling mass of energy) that I had hoped belonged to a very distant and disgraceful past.
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| Sulis |
06 Nov 2003 |
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There does seem to be a lot of this sort of thing happening. I watched a programme on TV the other night about a group of fundamentalist Christians in Australia called the black shirts who go around terrorising those who they think are guilty of adultery.
What gives these people the right to think that they can tell others how to live their lives? They always seem to have quotes in abundance from the Bible.
As Ruby 7 has said, I'm sure that Jesus wouldn't approve. If this is christianity (and I know it's not representative of all who follow the christian faith) then I want none of it.
It just saddens me that the followers of a god who is supposedly a god of love should be filled with such hate
Love and light
Sulis xx
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| Macavity |
06 Nov 2003 |
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What always makes me cringe is the photos of designer-casual "protesters" bullying some unfortunate I think they would be just the sort to dump in some inner-city no-go zone and then tell 'em to look for souls. Though, in fairness, it'd be unfair to the "sinners". I see their LEADER stands, fully-clothed, in swimming pools and once ran a BAR called the "Mad Hatter Saloon". Hmmm })
Macavity
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| Diana |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Wow, where's my bazooka? Am in need of a little target practice.
Evil comes in many forms. This is evil personified. I shudder to think of how many groups like this there are in the United States, and pray to all the gods and goddesses that I know of and also those I have never heard of that they will not grow in Europe. (But I'll keep my bazooka nice and warm just in case.)
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| Nevada |
06 Nov 2003 |
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This is hatred in the guise of love. Aside from that I am speechless...
Nevada
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| Kiama |
06 Nov 2003 |
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I nearly cried when reading the article. It saddens me to think that these people felt their own beliefs were worth more than others, and that they would quite happily break the law and terrorize other people in their own homes and businesses, just cuz their beliefs aren't the same.
Not everybody's going to believe exactly the same as each other, that's an obvious part of the world. But why do we have to fight about it? Why do we have to judge one belief to be righter than the others?
It is true that the Bible tells Christians to disagree with 'Witchcraft', sorcery, fortune-telling, abortion, homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc. But it doesn't tell them to terrorize those who do. It does not tell them to stand outside abortion clinics scaring those who enter half to death. It does not tell them to shout abuse at gay bishops.
And what saddens me most is that there is so much good and love in Christianity, but most of it is forgotten and overshadowed by this terror.
Kiama
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| faunabay |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Can I put a thought out there? Please don't let things like this control you with fear!
As I read this surprisingly enough I was smiling. It was ridiculous! It almost read as a satire. I had to go back to the top of the page just to make sure they were serious! :-) But even as I found out for sure they were I felt no fear that things like this may spread. I totally believe there are many more enlightened people now than people who live in fear like them and we are growing in numbers while they're numbers shrink! :* :)
Take heart!!
(big hug to all - even the people in the article)
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| Dark_angel |
06 Nov 2003 |
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ROTFLMAO....
...so funny....
...hang on, this IS a joke, right?
No? Hmmmm, I think I might have to do a reading for them. What cards should I email them about - The Devil, Death, The Tower? "You're a bunch of bigoted idiots and one day the evil Satanists that are all psychics and tarot readers will use our witchcraft to destroy you! [cue evil laughter]"
It's quite sad really, that people have so much time on their hands that they spend it trying to make everyone the same. They should get a hobby.
xxx
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| lark |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by Dark_angel
It's quite sad really, that people have so much time on their hands that they spend it trying to make everyone the same. They should get a hobby.
xxx [/b]
Tarot is a very nice hobby. :D
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| Star Spirit |
06 Nov 2003 |
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That just sickens me. You know you're pathetic when you have such a high opinion of yourself and your own beliefs that you take it upon yourself to ruin the lives of people with different beliefs who have done nothing to harm you. Those people need to be told to get a life and not try to tamper with things they truly do not understand.
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| Shoshin |
06 Nov 2003 |
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The funny thing is that they love to use Bible quotes to condemn these things. What they fail to realise is that the Bible is FULL of sorcery and divination. Moses was the greatest magician of his time. It says right in the Bible he was better than the pharaoh's magician! (Who was probably pretty hot stuff if he kept the pharaoh happy) What about the entire book of Revelations? That's not divination? Unfortunately, not a bit of this would ever filter though their tiny brains.
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| Star Spirit |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by Shoshin
The funny thing is that they love to use Bible quotes to condemn these things. What they fail to realise is that the Bible is FULL of sorcery and divination. Moses was the greatest magician of his time. It says right in the Bible he was better than the pharaoh's magician! (Who was probably pretty hot stuff if he kept the pharaoh happy) What about the entire book of Revelations? That's not divination? Unfortunately, not a bit of this would ever filter though their tiny brains.
So true...the Bible tends to contradict itself a lot.
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| ihcoyc |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Don't these people have a garden hose and a lawn sprinkler?
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| Red Emma |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Actions such as these are supposed to be illegal in the good old USA. But the South has an unfortunate sub-culture all its own. I've known about such kinds even in the Pacific Northwest, especially in farming communities. These people are sick, but I can only hope that as time goes by, their influence will lessen.
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| Diana |
06 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by Red Emma
the South has an unfortunate sub-culture all its own.
Very sub indeed. So sub that it's practically impossible to be really sure that it is even realted to culture. :laugh:
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| HudsonGray |
06 Nov 2003 |
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We've got extremist groups like that in Milwaukee too, what they do outside the two clinics that offer abortions has gotten up to 200 of them arrested at one time. They 'save' the sinners of anything, yet they don't do anything to help like being foster care parents or such. The clinics also offer psychiatric counceling & dentistry & when these groups are protesting, NOBODY can get in for appointments. The day I went over to look (it was 2 blocks from home at the time) they were standing in the street, having a loud prayer meeting, the preacher was calling down a 'holy angelic airstrike' (as a plane went by overhead) and two members were picking on people waiting at the bus stop. The old guy waiting for the bus punched the other in the nose to get left alone & the groups started screaming bloody murder to get a policeman over--who promptly sided with the old man & ordered everyone back 50'. That didn't last long....they moved right back up to the doors & physically blocked them again. Reading about what they did in Dallas was mild compared to the right wing groups here. They haven't done much with the city psychics yet (we have about 10 in the phone book). But give it time.
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| Majecot |
06 Nov 2003 |
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I am horrified!!!
Isn't this the type of behavior that led to the persecution and crucifixion of Christ?? And they consider this "CHRISTIAN" behavior???
Somebody needs to go back to Sunday School. I see not Christian behavior here!
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| Jeanette |
06 Nov 2003 |
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This is sort of like one of my neighbors (but on a different level). This neighbor has a sign of the Ten Commandments on his front yard (which is OK with me). However, the neighbor proudly displaying this sign is a KNOWN adulterer! How ironic ~ and typical! Where do these people get off doing this stuff? AAARGH it is maddening and disgusting.
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| Ross G Caldwell |
09 Nov 2003 |
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The scariest thing is that law-enforcement was on *their* side.
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| lunalafey |
09 Nov 2003 |
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If I was the person living & doing business there and these people showed up.....I'd break out the lemonade with a giggle and start handing out muffins. Then I would break out one of my decks and pull three cards on who ever was picketing closest to me. I'd read their cards to them........then I'd go to the next one.....and the next one.......my readings would give them chills......."oh dear lord...that evil woman has seen right through me"..........then they would go away. problem solved.
perhaps this might be some violation of tarot ethics- but what about thiers? I can only fight fire with fire, and tarot is my tool.
~amen
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| Nevada |
09 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by lunalafey
I can only fight fire with fire, and tarot is my tool.
~amen Amen, indeed!
Lunalafey, that's the best idea I've read yet for how to respond to this kind of behavior. I think it would speak most loudly to them. I especially like the muffins and lemonade. Just behave nicely and do for them what you do best.
Niceness rules (hee-hee). :P
Nevada
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| Melvis |
09 Nov 2003 |
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Brilliantly put, lunalafey!
The wisdom I read on this forum of people's responses to the hatred and oppression of others always inspires me!
My reaction to the picketing would probably have been to throw muffins and lemonade at the picketers and shout things like, "You all suck!" ;)
I learn so much from you guys!
Peace,
Melvis
:STRE
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| lunalafey |
09 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by Melvis
shout things like, "You all suck!" ;)
THAT
I would save for when they where in there cars & driving away....})
muhwahhhaha
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| Kiama |
09 Nov 2003 |
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Kinda related incident:
I went to Witchfest UK yesterday, and discovered to my horror that there was a group of FundamentaChristians protesting against the event. From the literature they handed out, I think they see Paganism as 'occult' and therefore evil, associated with prostitutes and drugs.
My question is, do they do the same to Muslims outside the mosques? Do they picket the synagogues? Do they protest against Hinduism? (I'd like to see them try to do that to devotees of Kali! }))
I bet they don't. At least, I've never heard of it.
Now, why protest against Paganism, which is just as valid a religion as Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism?
Mind you, there were 15 FundamentaChristians against about 4000 Pagans. Not good odds for them!
They also got slightly annoyed when, in response to the question "Where do you think you're going when you die?" my boyfriend promptly replied, "In the ground, duh." ;)
They were also very confused when our liberal Christian friend who was attending Witchfest with us responded to their question "Why do you do Witchcraft?" with, "I don't, I"m a Christian." He he he.
Kiama
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| catlin |
10 Nov 2003 |
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@Kiama
I wish I had seen this Witchfest. I like the answers your boyfriend and your other friend gave.
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| MoreMagic |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Join the people who are seeking God. Run like blazes from the people who've found God. :)
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| Red Emma |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Monday morning
Luna LaFey, BRILLIANT!
The next time I'm involved in a seemingly insoluable situation, can I call you!
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| Celtic_Dragon |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by MoreMagic
Join the people who are seeking God. Run like blazes from the people who've found God. :)
I love it!!! Mind if I use it for my sig?
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| spoonbender |
10 Nov 2003 |
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I first thought the article was a joke, I wish it was just a joke... :( This thread made me think of this quote:
"Once in a hundred years Jezus of Nazareth meets the Jezus of the Christians. They talk with each other for a long time; and every time Jezus of Nazareth leaves with the words: 'My friend, I'm afraid we'll never, never agree." - K. Gibran
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| punchinella |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Yeah, uh, I've been thinking about this situation since I first noticed the thread last night, & I'm curious to know why the reader in question closed-up her (I think it was her?) shop . . . whether or not it was just to open again 20 minutes later? --All things considered, this could have been the simplest solution . . . in which case, of course, the 'Christians' would not be publicizing, or possibly even noticing, that she had reopened . . .
I am VERY disturbed to hear that law sided with the protest, although I'm not terribly surprised, seeing that the incident took place in the state of Texas (apologies to any forum members from Texas . . . or should I say, sympathies . . . ??? )
Really, it would be interesting to hear her (the reader's) side of the story. I would like to know why she closed her doors.
P.
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| MoreMagic |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Be my guest! (She had a million of 'em...) :)
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| firestorm |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Your grandmother is my kind of woman, Moremagic! Very wise.
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| Kyrea Gold |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by MoreMagic
Join the people who are seeking God. Run like blazes from the people who've found God. :)
I love that! You should publish that as a bumper sticker...or if you are single use it somehow in a personal ad LOL
Kyrea Gold
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| Artemis Sans |
11 Nov 2003 |
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*shudders* I feel sick. Just a little sick to the stomach, nothing at all to be concerned with... hmm... everyday we take another step closer to the United States of Christ. Now I remember why I took Texas off my location.
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| punchinella |
12 Nov 2003 |
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Well Artemis actually I've heard that San Antonio is a bit of an oasis--P.
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| bighairymonster |
12 Nov 2003 |
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okay...we so do NOT have any of these weirdos in hong kong, mainly because tarot is still a new concept here (and many of the ppl here don't have the sufficient English reading level to read texts and stuff).
But I do know that when I told my heavily religious friend about my hobby, he looked at me and scoffed, "Not THAT rubbish you're talking about?" and then..."hmm...say, is that stuff accurate?"
At least he's not impaling me with a stake or anything. :)
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| psychiclayla |
16 Nov 2003 |
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Eeek, if heaven is full of people like that I'd rather go to the other place!
On a lighter note, that little house with neon signs in the window was WAY COOL! I'd love to have one those in middle of town...
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| psychiclayla |
16 Nov 2003 |
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BTW, In my experience the best way to deal with pushy religious people is to accept a Bible from them, smile, shake hands, thank them for saving you, lock up your reading room and tell them you're going to go home and have a good, long think about Jesus Christ. Then go sit in the nearest cafe for half an hour while they clear off and bother someone else! It really works and nobody gets upset.
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| MoreMagic |
16 Nov 2003 |
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Except for the fact that it only encourages them to continue....
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| lunalafey |
16 Nov 2003 |
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Originally posted by psychiclayla
BTW, In my experience the best way to deal with pushy religious people is to accept a Bible from them
but then they come back and want to talk to you about it!
I'd rather share my beliefs with them- but they don't want to listen.
We have 'nice' bible pushers here (CA)....they don't picket
or anything like that. They just leave their reading material, have a little chat and ask if they can come back....
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| Artemis Sans |
16 Nov 2003 |
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Ah, if only it were that easy in good ol' TX, lunalfey...
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| Ivy Rhiannon |
05 Jan 2004 |
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THERE ARE NO WORDS to portray or show my aggrivation towards those stuck up, closed minded, I'm-right-your-wrong-your-going-to-burn-in-hell activist fools!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! What idiots! People shouldn't judge what they haven't a clue about! I mean how many have died and and suffered for a christians good judgement? Not to say that all christains are that way...just those crazy jesus freaks!
Ok, that being said, I am feeling much better now...
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| Indigo Rose |
05 Jan 2004 |
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I am a Christian and I am very saddened by the horrible wrongs these people and others like them have committed in the NAME of JESUS! They are not of Christ. They are proud, boastful, inflammatory, and LIARS! History is filled with their kind. White Supremists/KKK who have murdered and abused God's beautiful people...in the name of Jesus(burning Crosses of all things). The "Christians" who assaulted the family of Matthew Shepard(the young Gay man who was murdered in Wyoming-a victim of hate crime), as they were grieving his loss during his funeral...these people had the audacity to stand outside the church with signs stating he was burning in hell. People actually flew in from other states to participate in this EVIL!!! When I clicked on the link to the website regarding what the group did to the Psychic in Dallas, CHILLS ran down my spine as I saw them take MY LORD's name and USE HIM as a scapegoat to launch an assault against this Psychic and family. Let me assure you THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT CHRISTIANS....they are ANTI-CHRIST. People have taken scripture and twisted it to fit their rigid militant dogma, that has nothing to do with the message of JESUS CHRIST. The mission and message of Jesus was to bring love, understanding, and hope. TO BUILD A BRIDGE BETWEEN GOD and HUMANITY.....NOT TO abuse.
Jesus condemned self-righteous Pharisees and Saducees from his time. HE went so far as to say THEY were NOT of GOD....amazing since they were a "religious" group who claimed to be GOD's oracle. SO IT IS TODAY....these false prophets are NOT of GOD.
Here is what MY LORD JESUS CHRIST had to say:
Matthew 22:37-40
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[1] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[2] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
LOVE is the MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST; so when a message is spoken in his name that is NOT of LOVE, please remember it is NOT OF HIM.
Thank You.
Blessings,
Indigo Rose
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| Ivy Rhiannon |
05 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Indigo Rose
I am a Christian and I am very saddened by the horrible wrongs these people and others like them have committed in the NAME of JESUS! Let me assure you THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT CHRISTIANS....they are ANTI-CHRIST. LOVE is the MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST; so when a message is spoken in his name that is NOT of LOVE, please remember it is NOT OF HIM.
Thank You.
Blessings,
Indigo Rose
Finnally! Well said Indigo Rose! I wish I could hug you right now! I dis no ones religion, but am heartbroken when things are done in the name of...whomever! Thankfully there are still souls out there whom understand, and choose not to participate in such maddness!
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| Indigo Rose |
05 Jan 2004 |
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Ivy, thanks for your kind words. YOU get it! LOVE is what it's ALL ABOUT. :)
Blessings.
Indigo Rose
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| lunalafey |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Indigo Rose
Ivy, thanks for your kind words. YOU get it! LOVE is what it's ALL ABOUT. :)
Blessings.
Indigo Rose
Indigo~
thank you for being true to your faith!
you are one of the few true Christians
you are a beautiful person!
{{{{IR}}}}
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| Shade |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by psychiclayla
BTW, In my experience the best way to deal with pushy religious people is to accept a Bible from them, smile, shake hands, thank them for saving you, lock up your reading room and tell them you're going to go home and have a good, long think about Jesus Christ. Then go sit in the nearest cafe for half an hour while they clear off and bother someone else! It really works and nobody gets upset.
Ok... I know that this is probably the best way to handle the situation... yes I get that... but I was bored, looked up their phone number on the site and called them. I asked (politely) about why they wanted to bully people in this manner. The lady claimed she wasn't aware of the incident... so not gratifying. I once called another group like this and told them I was praying that they would be blessed with compassion and that they would be forgive for abusing others.
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| Jypsie |
06 Jan 2004 |
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As a Christian, Southerner, human being, I am SICK for mankind. We are so quick to point fingers before we think. While Jesus was on this earth, his closest friends were the worst of the worst. And he loved them unconditionally. I feel like psychic powers are a God-given talent and for me, tapping into my own intuitive abilities only draw me nearer to God (or whatever anyone else feels like calling Him/Her). I feel so uncomfortable when people try to prosyletize me because they see me reading a book about tarot or wearing an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt or hanging out with people they don't think it is fit for a young lady to be hanging out with. How can I convince them I believe the same thing they believe in, just in a different way? I can't. That is the same reason I don't try to make everyone in the world believe the same things I do, too. Freedom of choice is the best gift God ever gave humanity- it is what makes us human.
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| Red Emma |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Probably I should be ashamed to admit the following anecdote, but both Mars and Uranus are in my birth chart...which I take to mean that I can sometimes be kind of aggressive about being unconventional.
Anyhow. As I've mentioned before on these boards, for the past year I've been under some pretty heavy treatment for some pretty heavy depression. Previously when the un-Christian Christians came to the door I was very polite, explained that I had my own religion, and all that good, lady-like stuff. And they kept coming back. And back. And back.
Then on one of my extremely bad days, a day when I was even livid with the sun for shining, the door bell rang. I stomped to the door, opened it to find two obvious "Bible thumpers" as my father called them, with their hopeful little faces. That was the last straw. "NO RELIGION!" I yelled as I slammed the door.
It's been nearly a year, yet NO ONE, absolutely NONE, has been here since.
There are three or four different organizations who worked this beat, I've often wondered why my bad temper seemed to discourage all of them. It occurs to me...during the 1930's depression hungry men would come to the door and my Mom always gave them at least a sandwich. One day my sister and I discovered some strange markings on the sidewalk by our house. I later found out that houses with residents who treated the hungry with kindness were so marked.
Do you suppose that somewhere in our yard is a marking about the evil woman in this house?
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| Diana |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Red Emma: It's fun to yell sometimes, huh? When I was young and silly (about 18), there was this guy who used to come around often trying to distribute his religious stuff and try and convert me and my flatmate. I seem to recall he was Jehovah's Witness... but don't they normally come in pairs?
Anyway, my friend and I got so sick of him that we set up our flat to look like a Devil worshipping place. We put on some weird music, the chorus of which was "666", black candles and all sorts of other devil-looking ornaments. When he came round at his usual time of the week, we invited him in. He looked so pleased.... at last, the two girls were interested! His insistence had been worth it.
Needless to say, he didn't stay longer than two minutes and we never saw him again.
That being said, since I have joined Aeclectic, I have always been horrified at some of the stories that some American members tell us of the problems they have living with their Tarot in their neighbourhoods. Some of the stories are quite shocking. And I want to just say that I admire all of you who stick with your beliefs through thick and thin and that you are able to bring up your children in a healthy manner in spite of the mental unhealthiness that surrounds you. I take my hat off to you and if I could send you some courage, I would.
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| Agathe |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Now that is a very interesting thread. I, in fact, am a Christian and I believe in God, Jesus, Holy Ghost,... . I go to church, I pray, I always wear a cross on my neck. I believe it protects me. I've had it for several years now and rarely take it off.
But at the same time I read cards and I am proud of it. I KNOW these two things: My faith in God and the knowledge of Tarot, make me be a better person, more understanding, full of compassion. I also believe I am more loving and caring.
I've met many people who call themselves Christians but it does not mean it makes them better people.
I will give you one example, which might be off topic a bit, but it makes me sooooo furious every time I receive it by email. Few years ago, when I first had the internet and I knew only 2 people who actually had email addresses and they were on my list. I received an email saying: If you love Jesus send it to 10 people. It will be the proof that you are not ashamed of him. Aha, so I didn't know 10 people with email addresses. What does it mean? I am ashamed of Jesus...What a TOTAL and COMPLETE rubbish!!!!
So now, every time I get such email, I delete it. It just irritates me soooo much.
Ok, I'm going now. Sorry guys, I just had to write this :D I feel much better now. Thanks for listening.
Blessings to all,
Agathe
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| Red Emma |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Diana
Anyway, my friend and I got so sick of him that we set up our flat to look like a Devil worshipping place. We put on some weird music, the chorus of which was "666", black candles and all sorts of other devil-looking ornaments. When he came round at his usual time of the week, we invited him in. He looked so pleased.... at last, the two girls were interested! His insistence had been worth it.
Needless to say, he didn't stay longer than two minutes and we never saw him again.
Diana, you're full of surprises. I love it!
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| lunalafey |
06 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Diana
Anyway, my friend and I got so sick of him that we set up our flat to look like a Devil worshipping place. We put on some weird music, the chorus of which was "666", black candles and all sorts of other devil-looking ornaments. When he came round at his usual time of the week, we invited him in. He looked so pleased.... at last, the two girls were interested! His insistence had been worth it.
LOL......Paul {RIP} did the exact same thing! one of his roomies was into skulls & such so there was not much need for 'setting the stage'.....but they invited them in and they very quickly left, never to return.
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| Simone |
07 Jan 2004 |
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Shoshin, thanks for sharing this.
I must confess I have not really taken the time to read all the posts in this thread (have to go back to work in a min'), but I must say I am shocked, though not really surprised...
The US - forgive me, all of my friends on the Forum, don't take it personally, it isn't - have been, in my opinion and my observation, fostering a loooong list of religious (and other) fanatisms which make me think that people there are in bitter need of a real sense / purpose in their life...
I am afraid that all the fanatism is, IMHO, not the solution, but seems to be the only way for those people to commit themselves to a cause (besides it being the very same thing they reproach to Moslems, isn't it)...
Pity....
I'll send a lot of light and love to the world, especially for this kind of people, so that they may find peace.
Simone
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| Alissa |
07 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Simone
The US - forgive me, all of my friends on the Forum, don't take it personally, it isn't - have been, in my opinion and my observation, fostering a loooong list of religious (and other) fanatisms which make me think that people there are in bitter need of a real sense / purpose in their life... GoooOOOOO Puritans~!
What do you expect from a nation founded on Puritanism??
Acceptance? Liberty? Freedom? Tolerance?
Still, it's not so bad here. As soon as someone else finds Utopia, I'll move there. Until then, at least I live in a nation where you can conveniently buy ice cream at midnight.
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| ros |
11 Jan 2004 |
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2 cents:
Didn't religion create the Devil for control? This shows who playing with the Devil pointing the finger?
How does that saying go
The one who points the finger, stirs the chaos?
Isn't crazy what people will do to others for attention?
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| Keslynn |
11 Jan 2004 |
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Hey ya'll,
I do agree that what these people did was not true Christianity. Indigo Rose, you said it best honey.
But... legally I don't know if the policeman could have done anything even if he didn't agree with them. In the US, the sidewalk is public property so protesters are allowed to do their business on the sidewalk and remain perfectly legal as long as they don't stray onto the actual private property (anyone can correct me if I'm remembering this wrong). Legally, this helps protect freedom of speech by allowing public protest. However, it's a doule-edged sword because any group can use it as long as they're peaceful. At least that's my understanding. Unfortunately, in this case, it was a group that we don't really agree with, but I do support their freedom of speech. They have the right to share their views and consequently look like the idiots they are in full view of many people.
:) Kes
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| Diana |
11 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by ros
2 cents:
Didn't religion create the Devil for control?
I don't know if religion created the Devil. There are some who believe that "God" created him in order to allow people to transgress His laws. A very generous fellow, God is. :D
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| Astara |
11 Jan 2004 |
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quote:
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Originally posted by Shoshin
Having these crazy SOBs show up!
http://www.operationsaveamerica.org...ic-outreach.htm
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It's impossible to have a discussion with close-minded people, unless you are agreeing with them. So sad.
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| Alex |
11 Jan 2004 |
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It's something I have trouble understanding about this culture here in the US. It's a pervaiding belief that one here is "free", but all too many people take "freedom" too far, as meaning that they are free to control others.
The site is called "opreraionsaveamerica" and the way they want to "save america" is by restraining other citzen's freedom to operate their own businesses, which are in accordance with local law.
The problem, as I see it, is not that of being "against' psychics or readers or even abortion clinics. The problem is believing one has the right to judge and control others, from Clinton's sexual life to abortion clinics to tarot readers.
In my humble oppinion, these radicals belong in jail. Religious freaks.
Alex.
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| Alex |
11 Jan 2004 |
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As a Christian by baptism, Southener-of-the-Ecuator, alien dressed as female Homo sapiens, I too feel sick of mankind.
God forgive me but I barely can stand most people anymore.
Alex.
Originally posted by Jypsie
As a Christian, Southerner, human being, I am SICK for mankind.
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| cricket |
12 Jan 2004 |
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I've been following this thread, admittedly a little bit reluctantly, and have finally decided to say something. It might not mean a whole lot to anybody, or make any sense, but it will be my couple of pennies' worth.
Yes, it was an outrage that these people showed up to bother that unfortunate person. Yes, it was their right, and they were not breaking any laws in being there - as long as they didn't step on the lawn or block the flow of traffic. If I remember right there were actually pictures of them going up to the house, however. These could hold up in a court of law on a trespassing charge.
Unfortunately, pressing charges just might make those people even worse. The groups that do things like that tend to fight back when a person stands up for their rights.
No offense meant, but it's very difficult, if not impossible, for people that haven't been in the southern US - especially in the bible belt - to even start to understand what it can be like. So many have posted on this thread that what this group is doing is wrong, that they should be punished, etc. I don't know how many have experienced how different the south is than from the rest of the country, but maybe it would help if they could. It sure changed me.
For most of my life I didn't have to worry about what the community in general thought about my odd way of thinking. (Even as a young child I would question entirely too much for the church's comfort. None of the preachers liked seeing me in church - if only for that reason.) People might have told me that what I thought was wrong. They might have tried to talk me out of thinking a certain way. Sometimes it worked. Most of the time it didn't. Even then it was a very rare thing for people to use a strong physical presence to enforce their ways on a person.
Then I moved to the south.
Now I live in a kind of state of fear. It won't keep me from thinking differently, or from doing things differently, or from telling the community at large to kiss off. I've done all of those things in the four years I've been here. The results have, for the most part, been surprisingly favorable. Certain letters to the local newspaper have even tipped the scales in local elections.
What I am afraid of is that the fact that even my children are starting to reject much of what I have fought for. My oldest - my son - is four years old. He started a preschool program last fall. Up until that time I was the one most responsible for him, his well-being, and his teachings. Up until a couple of weeks before the break for winter holidays we didn't have any sort of problem.
Then, even though it's illegal, some of the parents started preaching to their children while they were in the preschool building. This being the south, nobody thought anything about it. It's a normal occurrence. If taken to court, there's a good likelihood that anybody that protested would lose the case. To be completely honest, it didn't even bother me, at the time. Then he started shunning me. My own son, not even five years old yet, was brought home from preschool by my husband and refused to have anything to do with me.
Why?
Because he had been told that anything that wasn't the same as what he had been taught in church and in school was wrong.
It stunned me for a moment. How could somebody un-teach in a few weeks what it had taken me over four years to teach? Simple. This is the American south. This is where fanaticism and fundamental ways run rampant. This is where they more or less brainwash people into thinking that anything that's not like the main group is evil, and should be washed from the face of the earth.
He's still in that same preschool, and will be for the rest of the year. He will most likely be taught more of the same things in the years to come - perhaps even through high school, and on into college. Now I know it's happening and I can fight back. I'll just have to try harder to teach him to be more open-minded than his classmates.
What happens next year, though, when my older daughter starts preschool? Will there be two of them turned against me and my way of thinking by southern society? Maybe. Maybe it will be even worse when another few years go by and all of my children are in school. All I can do is try to help them to see differently than those that have been raised by the prevailing fundamentalists, and to pray that they are more open to different things.
And I can hope and pray that, until they learn differently, we can all be spared from being run over by groups much like the one that picketed the people in the article.
I can also firmly believe that I wouldn't have to worry nearly as much about this if we were living in any other area of the United States. I've lived in many of them. None - NONE of them can even come close to comparison.
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| Indigo Rose |
12 Jan 2004 |
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Crickett,
I know what you speak of. I have lived in the south 2 different times in my life: Tennessee and North Carolina. I HATED IT!!! I also lived in Indiana during my high school years, and then again for a few years as an adult. The entire "BIBLE BELT" is a very TOUGH place to live. Needless to say, I DON'T live there anymore!In fact, I have lived on the west coast for almost 8 years. I have lived in LA, San Fran Bay area, Seattle, and Portland. The west coast has a more open mentality. Racial diversity abounds, and is appreciated. There is acceptance of different religions and cultures. I LOVE IT OUT HERE!! Consider how blacks were allowed to be oppressed and abused long after slavery had been abolished, in the south. It is a rigid, abusive, constrictive environment. I think those who live there by choice must not know how bad it really is....I couldn't hang there. I know there are pocket areas in the south that aren' t as bad: New Orleans I think is an exception to some degree; but forget the rest. Texas to me is a really hard place too. I have never lived there, but have visited a few times. My husband lived there for 5 years, and has confirmed it to be as difficult as I thought on my visits.
Perhaps as we evolve as a nation through this millenium, more doors will open in the south and people will change. As for me, I will stay on the west coast.
Blessings,
Indigo Rose
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The A Reader's Worst Nightmare thread was originally posted on 06 Nov 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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