Another ebay silliness

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Cerulean	21 Nov 2003
Some poor soul is buying "Tarot Trumps in Minature" by John Shepherd for $100.00 on ebay when it is listed on abebooks.com, multiple copies, beginning at $15.00 and $17.00. Tarotgarden also lists its titles on abebooks.com for a reasonable price---you don't pay the international shipping. Anyway, here's the link to the $15 to $17.00 title on abebooks.com http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookSearchPL Sometimes oop decks appear on amazon.com and abebooks.com for very reasonable prices. Inquire to the bookseller before you buy and likely they will tell you if it's in stock or has all the cards, etc. I've found more than a few reasonable titles, some as low as $8.00. Happy hunting this gift-buying season. Mari H.

Umbrae	22 Nov 2003
Please please please people - there are a lot of shysters on E-Bay (and a lot of good people too). Check the sellers ratings. How many auctions have they done? What kind of feedback do they get? Don't buy from a seller with less than 300 sales. Do they have any negative feeback? Alarm bells should be going off if they do. Then check with either AbeBooks, or Tarot Garden databases to see if the prices are correct. In addition, is the item really OOP (out of print) or IP (in print). Often HTF (hard to find or HTG Hard to get), have nothing to do with in or out of print. Please be wary... Also you will notice that some sellers consistantly over-price and lie about their stock.

Star Spirit	22 Nov 2003
Quote: Some poor soul is buying "Tarot Trumps in Minature" by John Shepherd for $100.00 on ebay when it is listed on abebooks.com, multiple copies, beginning at $15.00 and $17.00. That's sad....it's a crime against nature.

Le_Corsair	22 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Please please please people - there are a lot of shysters on E-Bay (and a lot of good people too). Check the sellers ratings. How many auctions have they done? What kind of feedback do they get? Don't buy from a seller with less than 300 sales. Do they have any negative feeback? Alarm bells should be going off if they do. Then check with either AbeBooks, or Tarot Garden databases to see if the prices are correct. In addition, is the item really OOP (out of print) or IP (in print). Often HTF (hard to find or HTG Hard to get), have nothing to do with in or out of print. Please be wary... Also you will notice that some sellers consistantly over-price and lie about their stock. Hmm. If we never buy from anyone with less than 300 Ebay sales under their belt, the majority of people will be shut out of the process, and no one will ever be able to accumulate the necessary 300. I rather imagine that the remaining merchants will profit spectacularly at that point. Sounds like the music industry. Bob :THERM

firemaiden	22 Nov 2003
I know what you meant Umbrae, but I was grateful to sell my ex bf's excercise machines on ebay, having never made a single sale before. Of course, there is a difference between buying from an individual trying to unload stuff and buying from a store attempting to make a profit.

ros	22 Nov 2003
Mabee that should start calling ebay the learning station for the beginner.

lilsher	22 Nov 2003
The problem is that some people are too trusting. They just assume that a price is fair and never think that someone could be marking the price up just to see if someone will buy it. I can't tell you how many times I've seen high prices on there for things and titles saying "Rare" or "Hard to find" when I just saw the thing in Wal-mart. I don't think it fair to not buy from sellers with less than 300 feedback, though. I, myself, only have about 98, but haven't gotten a negative yet, so I think that shows something. My suggestion is to note any negative feedback and search through their feedback and read it. Sometimes there are jerks out there that don't buy what they bid for and they leave negative feedback to cover themselves. Just investigate a little, and you shouldn't have many problems.

firestorm	22 Nov 2003
I am always super careful about doing business on ebay now, after being burned once and if at all possible, I try to get my decks from another source. In addition to Umbrae's comment to check out the negative feedback, I would only add that the one unforgiveable (there could be more) feedback for me is the seller misrepresenting the condition of the deck, box or book. I won't deal with a seller with even one of these comments.

Lee	22 Nov 2003
I think it's also important to point out that anytime you buy a used, opened item, you're taking a risk, no matter who you buy it from. Besides all the unscrupulous people out there, it's also possible that the seller didn't bother to count the cards and doesn't realize it's not complete. The only way to be sure an item is safe to buy is to buy it new, factory sealed. Of course, if it really is an out of print deck, you don't have that option, and then you have to decide if it's worth the risk. I personally wouldn't buy from ebay at this point unless it was something I really, really wanted and couldn't get any other way. I recently bought a copy of Prediction Tarot from ebay. Fortunately, the cards were in absolutely perfect condition. Unfortunately, the seller had neglected to mention that there was no box. -- Lee

lunalafey	22 Nov 2003
Here's one ebay story to add...... I saw someone selling the Decameron as "rare".......thought "WHAT?!!" I could get the deck in a heartbeat! So I did the ask seller a question thing- "how do you determine that this deck is rare?" I thought it was polite..... the response the seller gave...."do you see it listed elsewhere on ebay?" well excuse me!.....

Dark_angel	22 Nov 2003
I had a bizarre experience on eBay, fortunately didn't pay. I won an auction at a fairly low price (below what you'd pay in the shops, even including shipping), but then the seller started acting strangely. Firstly she wanted my credit card details (WARNING SIGN!), then when I said sorry, because that wasn't the stated method of payment, she got huffy and said to send her a cheque. I asked for an address to send it to, and never got a reply! That makes me think she was a bogus seller who just wanted my credit details. I don't buy from eBay anymore, because I can't afford to take the risk. xxx

dolphinprincess	22 Nov 2003
I think the big message here is to know what you are buying, check prices elsewhere, and check feedback.. I have sold a lot on Ebay and bought quite a bit there as well... It really isn't a bad place to do business as long as you are careful.. Yes, there are sneaky sellers over there.. but there are also a lot of honest people selling things from their home - and small businesses that find Ebay to be an affordable way to get their goods out there... I find that I often buy from a lot of the same sellers... and you can develop a trust over time.. I feel badly that some of you have had negative experiences (I've had about one or two myself).. but I still feel the site has a lot of positive attributes... just my 2 cents :o)

tabbycat	22 Nov 2003
I've been really fortunate with my purchases on eBay, most of them from sellers with far less than 300 feedback points. Maybe things are different on eBayUK, because everyone I've dealt with has been friendly, helpful and honest. When I'm buying tarot decks I always check for price and availability on amazon, and for rarity and OOPness in the Aeclectic database and on other tarot sites. All of the decks I've bought have been complete, but some of the deck/book sets have been dented a little in the post. I'd be wary of the pricing on abebooks too. They currently have two copies of the PoMo tarot on sale at $150 and $180 - I bought it on eBay two weeks ago at £26! Jilly

Umbrae	22 Nov 2003
E-Bay has a policy about negative feedback. Get enough, and they remove your ability to sell on the site. Scammers usually don’t last long. So they have to create a new account and new account information to restart their scams. Buying from reputable sellers is important. Check the feedback. My point about buying from folks with ratings in the hundreds is that usually, they have earned their reputation.

Jewel-ry	22 Nov 2003
I agree with tabbycat, I have had some good purchases from e-bay UK, and most of the people have been very friendly and helpful. Only last week I brought the Morgan Greer at a very reasonable price, it was brand new and wrapped. When I opened it there was a card missing, my heart sank! I really didnt think I would get anywhere. I was wrong. I e-mailed the sellers, they were very apologetic, opened a new deck and sent me the relevant card! Recommend them anyday.... I too always check the deck and price and find out as much as possible about the deck before bidding. I have to say that the best piece of advice is NOT to believe everything your told. Check it out for yourself. Jewel-ry

HudsonGray	22 Nov 2003
That 'be cautious' works both ways. My very first bid on an ebay item (actually my winning bid out of 4 bidders) was 'cancelled'. When I asked the seller, he said it was a problem with ebay. When I asked ebay they checked & said the seller cancelled my bid because likely he got nervous that I had never bought anything from anyone on ebay before & had no track record. Well, if you aren't allowed to bid, you can't GET a track record! Fortunately the 2nd through 5th sellers took my bids & we had great transactions. I've only gotten 5 things on ebay. The first guy was a jerk, I had a money order all set to go--it was cash in hand and it was ONLY $15 bucks for the item! There was no way he could have lost

VGimlet	22 Nov 2003
I have found several hard-to-find decks on e-bay and other good (non-tarot) stuff as well. But yeah, there are a lot of *RARE* sellers out there. You just have to use common sense, and do a little research. And there are a lot of people who are selling stuff with no real idea what it's worth, including Tarot cards. I've been scorched a few times but usually it was my fault. I never pay with personal check, always either pay-pal - which has it's own set of cautions - or cashier's check.

Star Spirit	22 Nov 2003
There are a lot of things I don't like/trust about Ebay. But you just have to be careful and be your best at it with what you have to work with. I always check the seller's feedback rating first, it helps if they have hundreds or thousands of replies. And if they do have ANY negatives, I look at them. Usually the seller has replied to the negative feedback explaining that it was the buyer's problem and why. All the people I've dealt with so far have been good and trustworthy, you just have to know what to look for. I've been lucky, never lost an auction. It's my secret though ;)

bighairymonster	23 Nov 2003
I've had my bad bit of experience on e-bay. I've only bought on e-bay 7 times, and 5 out of 7 left feedback that said I made immediate payment and communicated well. The other two were negative feedback. One of them sold me a pirated CD, which was shipped a month later after payment, and refused to refund until I threatened to sue her. The second one had about 300 feedback, and shipped late. The good were damaged very badly, he had substantially overcharged shipping costs, AND didn't reply to any e-mails that I sent him. He's now an "unregistered user" after recent negative feedback from other users. To add insult to injury, both users left ME negative feedback for no reason whatsoever. I had paid in less than an hour after the auction ended, and tried to communicate with the sellers. Now, my rating is like, 77%. That's just really stupid and unfair.

HudsonGray	23 Nov 2003
I think there's a complaint area you can ask them to look at stuff like this for you, but I can't remember where it is--ebay is huge & I had trouble finding some things even after almost 2 hours of looking (live animals are not supposed to be sold, I was trying to report that someone had put a pet up on it & was taking bids). ALWAYS check shipping costs. I got taken badly when someone tacked on $8 for shipping. It was 4 ounces of possum fur, the actual shipping cost was $1.35, no insurance. When I emailed him he said he's 'had to drive to the post office to get it out'. There are some who inflate the charges for no reason except to make more money. He was in Illinois, they've got post offices everywhere, it wasn't like he was in the upper tundra or something.

Le_Corsair	23 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HudsonGray It was 4 ounces of possum fur... HudsonGray, would it be impolite to ask what you wanted the possum fur fer? :laugh: Bob :THERM

HudsonGray	23 Nov 2003
Well, it hasn't been used yet. I wanted it to make a possum! Yeah, that's right. Actually it's to do up a sort of anthropomorphic type animal with a shaman staff, a beaded vest, backpack, decorated feathers, necklace, etc. done in fake fur, real possum fur (face, neck, maybe front belly) and be lifesize as a decorative piece. I picked up a bunch of fox and raccoon fur low cost from a coat manufacturer for the same reason, but haven't actually started the projects yet. The raccoon & fox will have all fake fur bodies. I'm sort of hoping to do a black fox geisha, raccoon fortuneteller, and the rest as shamans of some sort. I found a whole bunch of aged, gnarly staffs about 14" tall when they cut the heavy brush along the golf course on the city's west side (I was there to pick catnip, but I know good gnarles when I see them!). I'm not sure about working with fur & figured to start with experimentation & only with common creatures used in the fur trade (NO felines, nothing big), hopefully nothing objectionable. The fur I got from the guy was so pressed flat I've got to get it fluffed again (and it smelled of mothballs). If you want to see some of the stuff I've got, which is all fake fur, cottons, etc. I've got a lot of pics up over at www.falconsmew.com

TygrEyes	23 Nov 2003
Does anyone know what the last Greenwood Tarot went for? I know one about a month ago went for around $202. Thanks!

Cerulean	23 Nov 2003
Chelsea Potter's site had a notation from her that she saw around November 15th that Amazon.com had her Greenwood for $170.00. I think it was purchased within a week. Scarcity, I suppose. In comparison, I saw recently on Abebooks.com a listing for a 1975 printing of Pierpont Morgan Visconti in a leatherette case with historical commentary (35 pages in a pamphlet) originally from a museum press for that much. A comparison with Tarotgarden.com's archives shows it is an out of print edition---but it wouldn't be worth that much to people who can get a $35-50 version from Abebooks.com, Alidastore.com or otherwise. But then again to a an avid or historical collector, it might be worth it... Mari H.

Star Spirit	24 Nov 2003
Quote: I think there's a complaint area you can ask them to look at stuff like this for you, but I can't remember where it is--ebay is huge & I had trouble finding some things even after almost 2 hours of looking (live animals are not supposed to be sold, I was trying to report that someone had put a pet up on it & was taking bids). Poor animal! How are you supposed to ship a pet???

HudsonGray	24 Nov 2003
Aahhh! July of 2002, someone was looking to sell the Greenwood for $17 lousy bucks! It was in 'good condition'. !!! http://www.tarotbychristiana.com/majordomo/tarottopics/msg00486.html Amazon has pictures of the book that goes with the deck, you can 'page' through it but it takes a little time to load: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1855383845/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-4168137-9803364#reader-link I was very surprised to see that actually. Another Aaahhh! I found a write up of a 1997 science fiction convention where one of the guests of honor was one of the two the artist/authors of the deck: In the evening, Mark Ryan held a workshop on his Greenwood Tarot deck, which was attended by about one-third of the congoers and lasted for four hours. The Greenwood Tarot differs from other tarot decks in several respects. Many of the symbols are reimagined and the cards have an order according to the wheel of the year. Mark first held a slide show displaying the major arcana, discussing the meaning of the characters and designs on each of the cards. After a break, the participants then returned to the room and each picked a face-down card from the major arcana. Mark then seated the participants in a circle in an order based on where each of our cards belonged on the year wheel. He then turned down the lights, instructed us to close our eyes and then gently narrated a scenario of exploring the mystic wood, guiding us through the landscape depicted in the deck and "introducing" us to its archetype, urging us to imagine having our own interactions with them. At the conclusion of the guided meditation, Mark brought the lights back up and asked each of us what we had seen and felt during it. There is no one particular emotion or insight that an individual is meant to have as a result of the meditation - Mark has said that the deck and the meditation are both tools for exploring our individual subconsciouses. Indeed, when we shared what we'd seen in our minds during the meditation, the images and sensations were often strikingly different from person to person. A store in Ohio still lists it in their catalog for $32, it's probably a false hope though (but I left a message with them, just in case). http://www.flybynightbookstore.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=35

TygrEyes	24 Nov 2003
Whoever got it for $17 is a lucky ducky indeed! I've seen it on a couple sites & when I e-mail to order it they've told me, oh, our site hasn't been updated in awhile. Someone posted here that they got it at a half price book store/site. I guess persistence pays off. Check the zshops on Amazon. I found my used one there. Do you guys use your OOP/HTF decks? I'm very careful w/ books, decks & things I care about in general, but I'm almost afraid to use it since it'd be difficult to impossible to find another one.

The Another ebay silliness thread was originally posted on 21 Nov 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.