Decks with Real People (Photos)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Requiella	04 Nov 2003
I've noticed that, for many of you here, the use of photos of real people in a tarot deck is something of a turn-off. I include myself in that contingent. Question is, those of you for whom this is true, why do you not like the idea of using people's photos in decks, be they collage or other? As for myself: When I am using the tarot as a tool for self-development (meditation or study), I tend to think of the concepts and principles on a very abstract level. Seeing real people's faces on cards is somewhat distracting. The photos seem to almost reduce the significance or seriousness of the principle or concept. For example, every time I look at "The Lord" card in my Sacred Circle deck, I cannot help thinking that he looks a little dorky! Then, I catch myself thinking about the model and what he or she must have been thinking when the picture was taken, and that obviously gets me way off. The same thing can happen in readings. I guess that, overall, using drawings instead of photos gives the tarot a more universal, transcendent feel. I'm curious what the rest of you think.

Nevada	05 Nov 2003
I don't know. I still like Voyager Tarot, which has real people, but they're made to appear less specific somehow. They blend into the card symbolism. I think that's it--I don't necessarily want to identify one particular person with the card. I do like painted decks where real models have been used. Not professional models, but real people who are painted, not photographed. But a photograph somehow takes away the mystical quality that Tarot needs for me. It's too starkly real, and as I said too specifc. I like the card images to be more vague and--as you say--abstract than that. Nevada

WolfyJames	05 Nov 2003
I'm don't like decks with real people, but my case goes deeper than that because I don't even like art with real people, or pictures. If I had the choice between the picture of a flower and a painting (or drawing), I would take the painting. And for people, not only I don't like them in picture, I don't even like them in paitings. So, usually, I prefer landscapes, natures scenes, animals or fantasy scenes. My guess is it's because I don't like people in general and I don't trust them at all. I don't feel comfortable with people. I think they are dangerous so they must be avoided. Maybe it means I prefer living in another world than reality. There are paintings I have seen, and some I have, with people on them that I love, and usually, they have something special and stunning, and I'm bot bothered that much. I can think about The Lady Of Shalot by Waterhouse, that I have on the top of my bed, that I love dearly. It causes problems with decks because tarot decks are full of people. I can forgive to the artists if they are not packed with talents and that they make mistakes about landscapes, flowers... but not the people. To me, they have to be perfect, or near perfection, for me to be able to look at them and work with them. I had trouble with a few cards with my Enchanted Tarot, people on the cards that bothered me. But I love this deck so much, and it's been so long we've been together, that I've learned to appreciate the cards I didn't like at first. There's my Lord Of The Rings Oracle that has many cards that are places, lanscapes, animals and trees and I like that.

cjtarot	05 Nov 2003
Hi, I'm a Sacred Circle person.... The fact is I like decks with bold colors. The use of people or drawings seems kinda insignifcant. When it comes to actual people in the deck I sometime see changes in the faces of the models(even dorky models can tell you something..hehe). These changes tell the story. I would suggest that you "never say never", there may be a deck with a real persons face that you will be drawn to. So for me the next level question is color...do you go for intense, soft or black and white... Blessings CJ

dolphinprincess	05 Nov 2003
When I buy a deck, I am often times drawn to the art... And the people in the deck are usually very similar - due to the artist keeping with a certain theme... With a deck of real people, there is a much greater chance that you'll love the way the people look in some cards but hate others... At least that is why I tend to not like photo decks... The animal-wise is my only one (and that's not people ;o) However, I keep looking at the tarot of timeless truth.... so there is a first for everything.

Bean Feasa	05 Nov 2003
I think photos of real people on the cards can spoil the sense of mystery a bit, particularly for the Major Arcana which, after all are archetypes rather than actual people. It tends to lessen the impact if you see a face that you might see next to you in the bus queue. Having said that, I do like the Sacred Circle deck - I use it more for meditation than readings - I like the atmospheric landscapes and I think in some cards (e.g. the High Priestess) the artists really did overcome the drawbacks of photos and got across the essence and mystery of the archetype. In other cards I don't think they succeeded so well e.g. the Lovers which for some reason I always find a bit silly. I like the Gendron deck too, again a lot of the photos are pretty effective. I adore the Hermit card in that deck. But I also love the Fool which is non-photographic. So I think what I'm trying to say is that it varies with me from card to card, and photographs sometimes do and sometimes don't work for me. Interesting thread, Requiella, well done. Kate, XX

SongDeva	05 Nov 2003
I have a sacred circle, I checked out the major arcana of Cosmic Tribe online. I don't generally like photos of people either. All I can think of is this is a friend of the author/artist and they agreed to pose for the Empress or whatever. They strike me as kinda dorky in SC too, as someone said. Just distracting, I guess. SC is lovely though. It was my second deck (I started with Thoth). There maybe be an SC set coming up for trade soon. ;)

Alissa	05 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WolfyJames I can think about The Lady Of Shalot by Waterhouse, that I have on the top of my bed, that I love dearly. Heyyyyyy........ I have Waterhouse's Lady of Shallott hanging by my bed as well! (I remember when I saw it for the first time in person, I had to have it ... I wanted to run across the museum and take it off the wall -- except it's so bloody big). I have, and hate, Franklin's Fairy Ring oracle deck. The real photos she used drive me nuts, I can't stand them. I really like, but don't own, the Sacred Circle too, but I dunno if I can handle any more of that same style artwork. Yuck.

TygrEyes	05 Nov 2003
My reason for not liking photo decks is simple - technology is not there yet for them to look like they're really there! They look like what they are, just pasted in. They can be real people, but paintings so the scene looks "natural". I don't like collage either for the same reason.

sagitarian	05 Nov 2003
For me, there's is a definite seperation between spirituality and humanity. We often see the heavens us "up" towards the sky. Psychologically, this causes us to think of "them" (our higher power) as "above" and better then us. We view them as some form of perfectionism. Sense we have this idea, and it's imbedded deeply into our subconcious, we have the feeling that we're not perfect, but spirituality is. Therefore, it's abstract to see everday (photographed) humans as part of a tool used with spirituality due to the imperfectionism of humanity. Somehow we seperate art from humanity, even if it is drawing humans. From art, we can see pictures of unicorns, dragons, wizards, princesses from fairy tales, and a whole range of other concepts that remain perfect in art form. They reflect that of the "heavens" and even though it was a human that drew it, and some of the people in the pictures are human looking, (Lady of Shallott as I own the picture as well), somehow it possess it's own power to be the mediator in between worlds (the high priestess). Art is neither all spiritual nor is it all realistic to the earth world, but in between as we see pictures of Jesus, Fantasy art, and other aspects of spirituality as well as pictures of vases, flowers, gardens, and empty coffee shops that remain unspiritual. Does any of this make sense? smiles softly.

DeLani	05 Nov 2003
I don't like photographs of people either, for all the reasons previously stated. It just takes away from the "mystery" or the subjectiveness that I need to go into a card and get its meaning. As for art style, I'm a big fan of line. The colors can be bold or soft, but it has to have good, interesting lines. Two opposite ends of the spectrum: the Nigel Jackson and the World Spirit. Nigel Jackson has very thin, intricate lines and soft colors. But the lines tell the story (to me). The World Spirit has big, bold colors, and the lines are so thick and black they demand as much attention as the colors. So I love them both for different reasons!

WolfyJames	05 Nov 2003
Yes exactly! Art makes everything better, flowers become more beautiful, landscapes get a certain light... It has to be superior than reality, it has to reveal the light and beauty we can't see with our own eyes. Art is there for that, to divinise everything, put them on a higher level. It's refreshing for the soul. I'm stuck in reality all the time, I have no use to have real pictures around me. I need to see beauty and inspiration, and I can find that, and more, in paintings.

IrishRiotGrrrl	05 Nov 2003
I dont really like to read with my deck that has the real like pictures on them. It's really really pretty, it just doesn't feel right though. LOL! I kinda felt bad for keeping them up and out of the way, but now I dont feel as bad about it.

Dark_angel	05 Nov 2003
One photographic deck I really like is the Vision Tarot. It's a fairly faithful Marseilles-type deck, and although there are people, they don't seem pasted in, because they've actually stood on that rock, leant against that tree, etc. in most instances, and the fact that photographs and models are used isn't shoved to the fore of every card, the focus of the card is on the SCENE rather than the individual in it.

Majecot	05 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Bean Feasa I think photos of real people on the cards can spoil the sense of mystery a bit, particularly for the Major Arcana which, after all are archetypes rather than actual people. It tends to lessen the impact if you see a face that you might see next to you in the bus queue I happen to agree, whe the charaters look too much like Joe Blow on the street corner, you lose some of the mystery and ingrigue. Although I have seen some cards that, even though Joe Blow was used for a model, the artist has given them an unearthy quality that brings the magic back to them. I don't want to recognize my hang-man on the street. I think a lot depends on the quality of the artists imagination and work.

tabbycat	05 Nov 2003
Weird subtext here - I have JWW's Lady of Shalott on my wall too! Synchronicity or what? I have the Sacred Circle and the Fairy Ring Oracle - I love the artwork in both of them. I also have the Vision and that's okay, but not as good as the Franklin/Mason decks. The sort of decks that I really dislike are the naive/primitive art ones, like the Shining Tribe and the Motherpeace. I feel rather like the character (think it was Lord Vetinari) from the Pratchett Discworld books, who imprisoned a mime artist in his dungeon and left him to die there looking at a notice that read 'Next time, learn the words'. If you're going to inflict a tarot deck on the world, learn to draw first! Jilly

Major Tom	05 Nov 2003
I like tarot decks that use photos of real people. For many of the same reasons that people cite for not liking them. That's why Major Tom's Tarot uses photos of real people. Here's the way I see it (your mileage may vary): God is everything. Tarot is a book that lets me speak to God. As my friend Ravenswing has pointed out on another thread tarot is also a mirror. People are not archtypes, but can, at their choice, assume the aspect of any archtype. By utilising photos of real people from my life I remind myself that I can assume the energy of the archtype. For me, photos of real people and things remind me of the scaredness of everything. It's only natural I'd want to use photos to create my deck. })

Requiella	05 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WolfyJames There are paintings I have seen, and some I have, with people on them that I love, and usually, they have something special and stunning, and I'm bot bothered that much. I can think about The Lady Of Shalot by Waterhouse, that I have on the top of my bed, that I love dearly. I have that same print!! Before I moved a couple of weeks ago, it was on the wall opposite my bed. I've been told a few times that I resemble the likeness in that painting, so it's kinda special to me for that reason too, in addition to the fact that it's a beautiful painting. Now it resides in my office here at the new house.

Requiella	05 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Bean Feasa Having said that, I do like the Sacred Circle deck - I use it more for meditation than readings - I like the atmospheric landscapes and I think in some cards (e.g. the High Priestess) the artists really did overcome the drawbacks of photos and got across the essence and mystery of the archetype. In other cards I don't think they succeeded so well e.g. the Lovers which for some reason I always find a bit silly. You know, I really like the SC deck too, despite the photos. You're right about the High Priestess card in this deck--the archetype comes through nicely. And yeah, that Lovers card *is* rather, well, silly...hehe. Quote: Interesting thread, Requiella, well done. Thanks for saying so! :)

Requiella	05 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by sagitarian Does any of this make sense? smiles softly. Totally!! I think you've articulated a rather complex idea here, and I would agree. Btw, I cannot believe how many of us have that same Lady of Shalott print!!! LOL There must be some sort of correlation here--people who are into to tarot also share a preference for mystical, fantastic art...?

tabbycat	06 Nov 2003
Requiella said - Btw, I cannot believe how many of us have that same Lady of Shalott print!!! LOL There must be some sort of correlation here--people who are into to tarot also share a preference for mystical, fantastic art...? I have to say that I like Pre-Raphaelites because they aren't mystical and fantastic. The whole ethos of the Brotherhood was to go back to a painting style that was as accurate and detailed as possible. While the subjects may have been based on myths and poetry, the images are realistic and scrupulously observed. Just out of interest, I consulted my book on the Pre-Raphs to find out who posed for the Lady of Shalott. Waterhouse used the same model in many of his paintings, but he left no letters or writings, so her identity is a mystery. Jilly

Alissa	06 Nov 2003
A quick tangent on the Pre-Raphealites for anyone whose interested : The Pre-R's were a small group of Victorian poets, painters and thinkers, who banded together to create their own artistic movement. They chose, as their subject matter, themes which were often taken from medieval poetry and/or classical themes of mythology (such as Arthurian legend, or Greek/Roman myths). They wrote a lot of poetry and painted some beautiful pictures. Tennyson, the Rossettis (both brother and sister), Waterhouse, and *more* were the influential names we most remember from this entire movement. Tennyson was not *truly* part of the movement, but was named Poet Lauereate during Qn. Victoria's reign, and often chose Arthurian legend subjects (in modern Victorian coxtext), which the Pre-R's were known to then expand upon. It was both their choice of romantic subject matter, as well as their painting style, that they termed, "Pre-Raphealite," a misnomer since both the subject and style they painted in were not, truly, before the painter Rapheal's time. They also were the first to make "bee stung lips" BIG TIME FASHION long before the age of collagen injections. But my favorite Pre-R fashion is, of course, their models' long flowing locks.

WolfyJames	06 Nov 2003
I didn't know I was going to cause that much with my small comment. I'm glad to see there are people here who love that painting as much as I do. I really love that period of art, Pre-Raphealites, as well as Romantics and Symbolists.

WolfSpirit	06 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Major Tom People are not archtypes, but can, at their choice, assume the aspect of any archtype. By utilising photos of real people from my life I remind myself that I can assume the energy of the archtype. For me, photos of real people and things remind me of the scaredness of everything. I like this way of explaining, MT. I too have a soft spot for photographic decks, but maybe that's because I don't have many in my collection yet }) I have the Sacred Circle, but that is different because it uses montage, of landscapes, pagan symbols etc. Decks I am drawn too now are the New York tarot (very expensive though :( ) and the Mountain Dream tarot, that show people in everyday situations. It takes a creative mind to translate tarot into pictures of everyday life and I think it can help me expand my understanding, if only because it is different from the decks I already have. Maybe these decks are great for my daily readings, when you also have to take the archetypes into the mundane. To me these decks that show everyday situations look very sympathetic, instead of the distant dreamy mystical decks - that I sometimes like as well, but there are so many of them already !

Diana	06 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Major Tom I like tarot decks that use photos of real people. For many of the same reasons that people cite for not liking them. That's why Major Tom's Tarot uses photos of real people. I like Major Tom's Tarot. The Two of Wands is my favourite card. ;)

Requiella	06 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by tabbycat Requiella said - Btw, I cannot believe how many of us have that same Lady of Shalott print!!! LOL There must be some sort of correlation here--people who are into to tarot also share a preference for mystical, fantastic art...? I have to say that I like Pre-Raphaelites because they aren't mystical and fantastic. The whole ethos of the Brotherhood was to go back to a painting style that was as accurate and detailed as possible. While the subjects may have been based on myths and poetry, the images are realistic and scrupulously observed. Yes, I know. :) I was referring to the specific subject matter of the painting that we were talking about.

WolfSpirit	07 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I like Major Tom's Tarot. The Two of Wands is my favourite card. ;) Now that is something I would put above MY bed. Have the lady of Marseilles watch over me when I am asleep ;)

TemperanceAngel	10 Nov 2003
Interesting thought that one and I do think it would be a fun deck to have! I read Tarot professionally and part of my work is psychic/energetic which includes reading from photos. Sometimes clients bring in a photo of a friend, family member, x-partner etc and I work from that image. So, for me, I would be reading the person in the phtos' energy and not the card. XTAX

Major Tom	10 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel So, for me, I would be reading the person in the phtos' energy and not the card. Therein my friend lies the art in a photo tarot. ;)

Rusty Neon	13 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DeLani I don't like photographs of people either, for all the reasons previously stated. It just takes away from the "mystery" or the subjectiveness that I need to go into a card and get its meaning. Agreed. I'd like to give the example of the Mountain Dream Tarot deck (Second Edition). That deck is closely cloned on the RWS imagery. However, what seems mysterious and otherworldly in the RWS looks banal in the MDT. The MDT is essentially a deck that, if you had the time, energy and skill, you could photograph the 78 cards for in your backyard using modest props. I have the deck from winning a contest and it's fun to have it because a "backyard" deck is an intriguing idea which I probably will never get around to doing myself (although I do sometimes picture it in my head), but I could not imagine ever really using the MDT for layouts.

TemperanceAngel	14 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Major Tom Therein my friend lies the art in a photo tarot. ;) Major Tom I just checked out your tarot deck and I like a lot, can't pick a favorite though, there's too many to choose from! XTAX

The Decks with Real People (Photos) thread was originally posted on 04 Nov 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.