Doom, gloom & death

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

psychiclayla	26 Nov 2003
"What do you do if you see something bad in the cards?" "Whaddaya mean bad? Stub your toe bad or end of the world bad?" "Well you know, death and accidents and stuff," I've only been asked this question about 100 times this year. My answer is always that I don't look for doom and gloom. I concentrate on the postive and the useful. But if I do see something terrible then I will spill the beans. I haven't seen a death in the cards thank goodness (although I did once in tealeaves when I was just starting out, but that's another story...) So what do you do, or what would you do if you saw something truly awful in the cards?

Cerulean	26 Nov 2003
as many different collectors are here, is there a specific deck that you might be talking about? The fortune-telling aspect of playing cards that carried over in some books or decks of meanings do have 'financial ruin' or 'illness' written in their meanings, which is very discouraging when starting out. I'm likely not use or see them as accurate in themselves as event predictors--I see them as modifiers signalling what the questioner might be feeling or their personal slant on the question or situation. If you do see predictive trends in your reading and dislike the layout/reversals or cards, sometimes it's best just to realize that the question as asked isn't going the way that you like. You don't have to accept the ideas--most likely you will take action to avoid the situation or problems suggested. Some of the art of European decks, pre-1910 reproductions can seem gloomy if historical art and stories of the time period of the deck aren't familiar. Many decks after the Rider Waite scenic decks seem to me postively cheery or the softer side. I'm also thinking of the 'negative cards'--let's say you see successively, the Nine of Swords, Ten of Swords, The Falling Tower and the Hanged Man and Death and Devil. It could be read: Personal dread or depression (9Swords), a bad or bottom-of-a-well dark period or environment that has a bit of light in the distance (10Swords), a radical change following this situation (Falling Tower) that may reflect the sacrifices made or it may be a period of waiting after the change (Hanged Man). During or because of the wait, a period where change, conflict and transformation will be faced and mastered or passed through (Death). A choice or choices reflecting material gain and temptation to escape from the feelings will only yield temporary band-aids--it's better to acknowledge the road may be harder than desired and the questioner should not gloss over the challenges. (Devil). Some other negative cards such as 7 of Swords for theivery or temptation or sneakiness or 4 of pentacles for miserliness or ten of wands for burden might reflect what the questioner feels and so suggestions to face their fears or situation might be up for evaluation. I don't know if the ideas were helpful--but I was thinking even if successively you found negative cards being laid out, that it might be helpful to view them in a storytelling kind of context. Hope this helps. Mari H P.S. If you can take a break and do something else such as write in a journal or do what balances you physically, like a walk, some soothing tea or taking care of a dirty corner/bathtub/leaf raking...sometimes this helps give perspective or you end up using a different deck or doing a fresh reading...

full deck	26 Nov 2003
If something "bad" is revealed, it just is. I only try to understand it afterwards. I have lost much of the distinction between what one considers bad and good some time ago, simply because it seems that sometimes what appears to be bad may not be quite so and what we desire often ends up being insignificant. How one deals with adversity is far more important than how one deals with things fair (IMHO). Usually, if I did read something bad and it is acute, I will feel repercussions from that reading afterwards, like an aftershock, that confirms the actual situation. In that sense, it is good to have the confirmation. Basically, one needs to spend time honing their own awareness and insight *before* picking up a deck of cards; those cards are still just a tool and if you burn them, it's just another little fire.

ros	26 Nov 2003
If I see bad in the cards I tell that there is an ending coming & a new beginning. Anything that ends begins again. Just like when a door closes a new one opens. You just have to find some way of giving compassionate thoughts.

WolfyJames	26 Nov 2003
When I see bad cards in my readings, I prefer focusing on the good ones to remind myself that the world won't stop turning; being hopeful (it's in my nature), it usually works. If there isn't any good card, then I'll wonder what is driving me there and what I can change to make it less worse. The worse reading I came up with (cartomancy) was danger of dying. I was worried for weeks, and it happened for real. I had a deadly allergic reaction and I spent a week at the hospital to recover. Let's just say that since then, when I see bad cards, I take them more seriously.

Umbrae	27 Nov 2003
Sometimes the cards deliver messages that are not good. Part of our ‘job’, is to tell the truth. The big question is how. A while back I was reading for a friend, who also reads, and plain as day there’s a death. I can’t tell if it’s family, friend, or acquaintance – but it’s death (and not the card). So I hem and haw, make small talk, beat around the bush…and she says, what are you not telling me. I looked at her and said, “There’s going to be a funeral.” Two days later, the man across the street from where she lives dropped dead of a heart attack. The EMP’s revived him – and nine days later he died for good. A couple weeks ago I’m visiting her, and she’s telling the story to her father. I asked her if she could remember what the cards were. She didn’t, but she added that nowhere where any cards that would ‘mean’ a death or funeral. Sometimes the strongest messages come from between the cards – and those messages, must be relayed.

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
If I saw something truly awful....it's my job to tell the truth. How, I guess that depends on the querent and the situation.

Kiama	27 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae A couple weeks ago I’m visiting her, and she’s telling the story to her father. I asked her if she could remember what the cards were. She didn’t, but she added that nowhere where any cards that would ‘mean’ a death or funeral. Sometimes the strongest messages come from between the cards – and those messages, must be relayed. I also find that such meanings come from a combination of cards... To me, predicting something like death doesn't happen with just one 'negative' card. It's when there are multiple cards all reiterating and pointing to it, coupled with a card that maybe tells you 'how' or 'why'. For instance, cards that seem to say 'illness' for the querent (maybe 5 of Pentacles?) coupled with cards such as Death, 10 of Swords, Judgement (release from pain...) And also coupled with a knowledge of the querent: If the querent has cancer for instance, and it is quite advanced, looking at the above cards and simple saying 'oh, you're going to go through some minor, spiritual changes in the near future...' is an case of not following the facts. But because I don't believe there are any 'set' meanings or 'circumstances' for certain cards or their positions in the spread (eg- "If the Empress card and 4 of Wands are next to each other in a spread, this definitely means childbirth and pregnancy") I would never agree that there are no cards that 'mean' death or a funeral. Anyway, rambling aside... Life is not all fluffy and cuddly. We do not wake up in the morning, go walking in the sunny woods, and sing with the birds and animals of the forest. Instead, we are humans, and our lives have the capacity to both be wonderful and fun, and be miserable and painful, often all at the same time. It is inevitable that we will all die one day, and that at some point in our lives we will all feel immense pain and grief. So to say that the Tarot will never predict such things, or that a Tarot reader shouldn't let on these things if they see it in a reading, to me sounds like... well, lying. However, the future is always in motion, since it is entirely dependent upon the present (which is always in the process of being chosen and actualised and therefore also always in flux) and so we can offer the querent advice on how to try and either avoid the bad outcome we see in the cards, or make the most of it. So whenever I see something truly terrible in the cards, or even something that I know isn't what the querent wants (eg- telling a young woman that the relationship she thinks is so wonderful won't work out...) I pull a few extra cards to give them advice on how to change it: often the bad future is being caused by something the querent is failing to do in the present, and they can easily avoid it by simply taking the action now. Kiama

Simone	27 Nov 2003
Fortunately (or is it?) I did not, as yet, have any bad news to tell, the "worst" thing I saw was - little sidetrack - when I was doing a reading for two of my colleagues at work. For one of them I saw that she had been "cheating" on her husband to lift up her self-esteem and I couldn't tell her because the other one was present (I did though, later on, and she confirmed my reading) :) Sidetrack aside, there is something serious in my life: a friend of mine has been told by a psychic that her husband would die as a consequence of an accident around middle/end of 2005. She being a Tarot reader too, she now is obsessed with this and draws death cards all over the place, even for topics / questions that do not seem related. She literally freaks out. Now I wonder if it really is always that well to tell? Because she is going through hell because of it... OK, she might be preparing herself for the blow, if ever it was to materialise, but - well, the situation is not very simple: in this marriage, which, by the way, goes through a serious crisis at the moment and is in danger of breaking, there are two children, her daughter of another marriage, his son of another marriage, but both feel very responsible about the children (the marriage for the moment only holds because of the children). And now she begins to think about ways to keep both children in her care in case her husband dies. Cannot hurt, you'll say, and me too, but still... My questions now are: could this so-called psychic have been wrong? Could she have seen the break-up and misinterpreted it? Was this person acting responsibly? For my friend, there is the potential of learning a lot out of this situation (dealing with bad news, preparing herself, dealing with death, and lots more), so I presume the message had a sense - but how burned-out will my friend feel if the psychic was wrong? She clings to the marriage (and suffers) because of the children, because of the issue of child-care which is bound to come up if her husband dies (divorce makes it impossible for her to keep this child in her care). She will have gone through a lot of unpleasantness for "nothing"... What do you think? Light and love Simone

ros	27 Nov 2003
Simone: "It's not where you have your thoughts, it's where you're thoughts have you." Your friend keeps pulling the Death card because that's where her thoughts are now. The psychic told her that, because that is her knowledge of reading the cards. Your friend needs to be grounded & relax, a lot can happen between now & 2005. Look at all the time she is wasting worrying about something that may never happen, we don't know if it will. Death may be a new beginning in 2005 for both parties involved. Hope things turn for the better!

Mystic Zyl	27 Nov 2003
To me tarot cards only read the energy that is around a situation at the time. Since God has given us free will, we change the energy to effect the outcome. If I see this for my clients I warn them to change their pattern of energy on a certain situation. If it is something like illness, I ask them to consult a doctor for a physical.

Cerulean	27 Nov 2003
by someone actually is a very intuitive designer, actually the maker of the tarot deck he read. It was a combination of cards and frankly I took it as, "Oh good, you are telling me a cautionary tale. " Since it was a near full-deck reading, we always had the potential to get negative card combinations. The facts later that I took stronger care of my health, finances and car so that this passing year, no major horrors have happened--some sad or somber adjustments have actually had me taking precautions. But I also felt like extending and preparing myself for more risks in sports, art or exercise that are turning out well--so I'm better balanced for living. In terms of your friend, she and you are probably feeling that the end of a marriage relationship could be a deathly blow. How you both interpret such situations that arise after the readings--I believe you are wise to go with your understandings. As stressed as she was during the time of the reading and her worries for her kids now, it sounds like she is turning the worry into looking into solutions. You are right, no marriage breakup is simple, nor easy and children can suffer either way. I wish better times for her and her family. Best wishes, Mari H.

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Sometimes the strongest messages come from between the cards Marvelous sentence!! :D Thank you, Umbrae :)

The Doom, gloom & death thread was originally posted on 26 Nov 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.