Nudies

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

wynde	20 Nov 2003
whoa so i got mermaid tarot in the mail today totally out of the blue (ordered it a while ago when it wasn't being distributed.) and what an interesting deck it is. really stunning. i was walking down the street totally engulfed in and amazed by the images but when i sat down next to someone on the train i suddenly became aware of the nudity in the cards, (which i hadn't really noticed) and while i was defiant towards the feeling, i was still unwillingly embarassed by it. it seemed so weird that when i was looking at them by myself i didn't even notice, and the deck seemed to be saying so much to me with so much power, but when i got around other people, my attention turned in a negative way. ugh. has anyone had a similar experience? i don't mean just having a deck with nudity, but having the weird feeling of embarassment about said deck around people. i'm wondering if this will pass or if i'll always have to be careful about who i use the deck for in readings. also, as a side question, have any of your respective querents ever been offended by nudity in the cards. thanks

ros	20 Nov 2003
I think you have to have an open mind about the nudity on the cards. I don't see anything wrong with it, because that is where the artist is at the moment they create the deck, that's there creation not ours. I don't care for them & wouldn't use them, but that's a personal choice.

ros	20 Nov 2003
Who likes nude pictures on the tarot cards? I don't but I think it is o.k. for others.

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
Well, riding the train in New York City can make one feel embarassed about a lot of things... (that's why some books get read with brown paper covers...) Otherwise, I adore nudity in cards, especially nude mermaids. (LOL) -- well, I don't like gratuitous nudity, but if its artistic...

lilsher	20 Nov 2003
I don't try to get decks with nudes, but if they happen to have a couple in them, I don't mind. I do like them to be tasteful, though. I don't want my mind to be drawn away from the meaning of the card because of sexual content.

Le_Corsair	20 Nov 2003
Well, habitually reading with the Erotic Tarot of Manara or the Tarot of the Gardens of Priapus is definitely going to lead to some awkward moments! :laugh: :joke: Bob :THERM

LadyMedusa	20 Nov 2003
Wynde, The word embarrased doesn't quite fit for me personally, but there are some decks that I am not quite "comfortable" with having out in the open with some people. I think it's because I know they are uncomfortable with nudity. By my putting them in an awkward position by showing them the decks, I feel discomfort for making them feel uncomfortable. As for covered books as someone else brought up, I am guilty of that. This last summer my children and I spent quite a bit of time at the public swimming pool. I live in a very closed minded town so I decided to cover my tarot books rather than cause a disturbance by what I knew my reaction would be if I had been approached in an unfriendly manner. LadyMedusa edited for spelling

Star Spirit	21 Nov 2003
I haven't really had my deck around strangers (nor does my deck have any nudity). I'm not sure how I would feel if I did. I probably wouldn't end up in that position normally, unless I was in a situation similar to yours. I'd try not to let it bug me though. People can think what they want, chances are they don't even know what you're looking at. Personally I think the nudity in some decks can be unnecessary, but I'm not totally against it as long as it's tasteful.

Star Spirit	21 Nov 2003
I'm not against it in certain decks where the pictures are tasteful and seem more about meaning and less about the actual nudity, but I tend to find that when I am looking at decks with nude pictures, it's kind of distracting and drives me to go look at another deck. Not because I like to look at naked people :D just because it tends to be something that often stands out on the cards and I would think might distract me from a reading. It's not really necessary.

Cerulean	21 Nov 2003
and even paint and draw figures without flinching in art studios or study the Silver Mantegna or my Celesta Porta (Tarocchi of the Stars, Tavaglione) alone...but when there are kids around or people likely to sit near, looking over my shoulder, I do not have my figure illustrations open to show. The color in the Mermaids is so attractive---but they are subdued and fanciful, so they might be less likely to draw attention if you were in a seat alone or at a table where not many people were standing around. You're right, I have a tendency to keep my Mermaids not in an open area. However I notice that if I use decks or have art books with line drawings or a rather light color palette--say my Dal Negro Mantegna or Mitelli--there's not a lot of color, so it doesn't attract attention. I have a tendency to keep my art books paper-covered and try to do word translations with Italian text instead. I think that many of us are trained to be very sensitive to NOT attracting attention. And we get protective or careful around strangers, because we are taught this is more acceptable. If we are more cautious, perhaps it is because we are taught this from a very early age. Mari H.

Diana	21 Nov 2003
Nothing against nude people anywhere. Whether it be on Tarot cards, or on the beach. But what gets my back up is that the majority of the Tarot nudes are so-called "perfect". When I go to the beach during my holidays, I always land up in places where people are very free. Some wear swimming costumes, some are topless, others are completely naked. Well, I have observed the naked people.... there are not even 1% of them who look vaguely like those so-called perfect nudes you find on Tarot cards. They have fat legs, or fat stomachs, or their breasts hang down, the women have stretch marks. Even some of the teenagers show budding signs of cellulite on their legs. I mean, there is so much variety there. I wish nudes were depicted as normal people. Anyway, here in Europe we're a lot less hung up about nudity than in the States. It's kind of normal here. And it should be normal, damn it.

Tallarico	21 Nov 2003
No likely nudies...

Sulis	21 Nov 2003
I'm with Diana, I have no objection to seeing naked people but I do object to the only depictions of the human body being so called 'perfect specimens'. Get some real people in there, clothed or unclothed I don't really care which. Love and light Sulis xx

Majecot	21 Nov 2003
I can understand you feeling that way looking at them in public... while I am neither a prude nor offended by nudity ( done tastefully) I am concious of not wanting to be offensive to others. I have a deck that has some nudity, I would not take them in a public place to read simply for that reason. I guess out of respect for my mother... because she was easily shocked by such things, I tend to treat other people with the same regard.

Diana	21 Nov 2003
Majecot, your respect for other people's sensibilities shows your empathetic nature. But still, do these people never go into art museums which are full of nude paintings and sculptures? Do they get embarrassed when they look at the sculpture of a naked Greek athlete? Aren't many Tarot cards also a form of art?

Mystic Zyl	21 Nov 2003
Tarot cards are a tool of our profession. I would just like to ask. Has anyone ever seen a nude on a stethoscope? We as readers can choose to make it dignified or not. Certainly I would find the Erotica deck interesting, but would I ever do a reading for a client with it? No, because I feel to a greater extent tarot is misunderstood by the masses.

Majecot	21 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Majecot, your respect for other people's sensibilities shows your empathetic nature. But still, do these people never go into art museums which are full of nude paintings and sculptures? Do they get embarrassed when they look at the sculpture of a naked Greek athlete? Aren't many Tarot cards also a form of art? Oh I absolutley believe in them as a form of art. (that is why my "need to have " list is so long). The first thing I do after looking at every card myself, is to share that experience with others. But I do think that some people probably do get embarrassed at the museum, it is sad really that we are not all raised to be enlightened. (I still have some of my mothers hang ups I guess but not, gratefully, all of them )

Dark_angel	21 Nov 2003
A lot more medical students would buy stethoscopes if they came with nudes! At the mo we get to choose between red, blue or black. lol.

destinyawaitsme	21 Nov 2003
I know what you mean. There's been many times I've read for people and they've mentioned nudity in the cards when I guess I'm so used to working with them I really don't motice the nudity. I remember doing a reading for a friend with the Universal Waite (tame as far as nudity is concerned) and she said something about the Star and World card about them being naked. I guess I never really noticed..lol

spoonbender	21 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Nothing against nude people anywhere. Whether it be on Tarot cards, or on the beach. But what gets my back up is that the majority of the Tarot nudes are so-called "perfect". ... I wish nudes were depicted as normal people. Anyway, here in Europe we're a lot less hung up about nudity than in the States. It's kind of normal here. And it should be normal, damn it. Right on! Well put, Diana. That's why I love the Universe from the World Spirit :). Spoonbender

DeLani	21 Nov 2003
I was just going to say the exact same thing - here here, Diana! And the Universe card was what sold me on the WS deck - it has depictions of all kind of people, black, white, Asian, Latino, fat, skinny, glasses, all kinds. I love it. I suppose I was lucky, I was raised in a very open household, where my mom went around nude all the time. And since she's also an artist, I saw tons images of nudes as well. It's just natural. I think it's a very disturbing thing that people are offended by the human form - it is what we are, so how can it possibly be offensive? To me it's like being offended by a blue sky or carrots. No offense to anyone - but please, I encourage you, if you have a strong negative reaction to the nude human form, to try and work through it into wholeness and acceptance of yourself and others. Blessings (as I sit here nude writing!)

rota	21 Nov 2003
I'm surprised and amused this subject keeps appearing. Tarot is supposed to be about archetypes. A figure wearing clothes is automatically finite, specific and dated, whereas a nude figure is more likely to represent something eternal. ----- "Has anyone ever seen a nude on a stethoscope?" No, but I've seen a stethoscope on a nude. I also remember that it was a lovely afternoon... -

Le_Corsair	22 Nov 2003
When I think of art masterpieces of an earlier age,* I don't recall seeing too many of them showing anything but perfect human form, either. Did Michelangelo do any sculptures of fat or ugly people? Did Leonardo or Raphael paint any? Fra Angelica? Rubens painted fleshy women, but I don't recall any grossly obese or ugly people in his ouevre. I will admit that Goya knew how to paint ugly people, but I don't recall him painting any ugly nudes. Artists, it seems, are just as sensible of beauty as the rest of us; no ordinary/ugly people need apply. *note: I speak as a layman. I have no art degree, nor have I studied the subject in detail, so I am quite willing to be corrected in this matter. Thanks! Bob :THERM

Tallarico	22 Nov 2003
I am not offended by it nor do I have a strong negative reaction to it, it's just something that I choose not to use. Like blue skies or carrots! I prefer dark, windy days and early June baby peas!

Alissa	22 Nov 2003
Gaugain painted nudes and semi nudes while in the West Indies that don't strike me as particularly "perfect" by any means -- however, he was painting several centuries later that Raphael.

MeeWah	23 Nov 2003
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Emily	24 Nov 2003
I don't like nudity on the cards - some of them like the Star, the Devil, Lovers etc are ok because the nudity is expected but I don't like to see cards full of ladies breasts or nudity that doesn't really fit into the card. I'm not a prude by any means but it does make me uncomfortable to see and to use around people cards that contain images that might make them and me uncomfortable. I think this is probably why I've never gotten on with the Robin Wood and the Ancient Egyptian tarot, the nudity is too in your face. The Tarot of the Spirit used some nudity also but with the way they've been drawn, its not gratuitous - most of the cards you can't even tell the gender lol Edited to add:- I quite like nude art, sculptures, paintings etc but I don't like to see it on my tarot cards.

Dark_angel	24 Nov 2003
I don't have a complex about it or anything, but I just can't see the point in a deck where everyone's naked. But then I don't appreciate the great nudes either. I just don't understand the obsession with nudity in society - we're all human, we look essentially the same, so where's the attraction to having lots of pictures of naked people?

Indigo Rose	28 Nov 2003
I'm with Emily and Dark Angel. I too don't mind the nudity in the Star, the Lovers, and The Devil...it fits there. however I DON"T care for decks where nudity is a central theme. 2 decks that come to mind are Rohrig Tarot and Tarot of the Ages; both are filled with it. To me the Rohrig Tarot is filled with nudity and materialism. I just don't see the balance in this deck. Temperance is a virtue, and it is also a key ingredient to a happy and balanced life. Our focus on nudity and sexuality has become imbalanced in this world. Everything has a time and a place; but TOO much is just TOO much!

Lethe	28 Nov 2003
Certainly Diana has made a really valid point. I believe our reaction to nudity is a product of 1000's of years conditioning and consequently a system designed for self-realisation and for breaking the bonds of oppressive taboos, should feature nudity (well not SHOULD, but CAN). Howver to have images of "perfect people", defeats the object and is again trapping us in the conditions of society. So yes all shapes and sizes please!

Lethe	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Indigo Rose Our focus on nudity and sexuality has become imbalanced in this world. Everything has a time and a place; but TOO much is just TOO much! I have to disagree slightly (but in a friendly way ;) ) like I said above we get nervous or embarrassed with nudity if others are around because society has made us feel that way. Even if we think we are aloof from this, there are deep-rooted fears planted many generations back. I don't think you can have too much nudity, but I think you are correct in asserting an imbalance and that is the problem. Much nudity that we see now is not about freedom, but merely the imposition of yet more chains. Titilation has its place but not in a Tarot deck, for it is distracting. However you could have an entire deck of nude images if they were explicitely designed for us to understand our primative selfs, our sexuality, the real us beneath the skin (clothes).

The Nudies thread was originally posted on 20 Nov 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.