The Devil Card
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Palomadov |
08 Nov 2003 |
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I would like to explore the difference interpretations of the Devil card. Some associate this card with obsessions, other with humor.
I do not particularly like this card but since it is a dear friend's birth card along with the Lovers and he does have a great sense of humor, I would like to view it in a different light.
What is your take on this card?
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| Alissa |
08 Nov 2003 |
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This is a short reply on a very complex card, but it's a great question.
Traditionally, yes ... the Devil represents times when I (or my querent) is bound by ... something. It could be an obsessive behavior or outlook on an issue, it could be an addiction at play, it could be any mentally "binding" set of thought patterns.
To me, personally, the Devil card often represents the Critic in my head, and the Critic is Devil-ishly good at tying me into mental knots.
Someone on the boards once said something I've found profound about the Devil : he always lies.
Earlier this week, I pulled the Devil for my daily card - about 7 am and I'm thinking, "great, look what I have to look forward to".
That day, I *did* have a day where the Critic in my head took an emotional event, and proceeded to beat me up about it for hours and hours. I went to TOWN on myself, had myself in tears all day.
And you know what? Everything that s.o.b. told me in my head was WRONG. I had "what iffed" myself into believing terrible things that were complete lies that I had told to myself, in the absence of any real information to work on.
Once the facts were seen, the illusions fell away and I was fine again.
That's the key, to me, to understanding the Devil. However, I do NOT mean to imply that your friend is a lier by nature with this as his card, let me assure you!
I don't know if that example is helpful, but to me it's been a very good lesson (mostly for myself, and how to handle those issues when they occur).
I'm looking forward to other responses you may receive on this.
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| WolfyJames |
08 Nov 2003 |
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This is just my opinion on The Devil. I think the Devil is our "shadow" (I'm using a psychology term here) where darkness lies, greed, perversion, lies, superficiality, lust, anger, addiction, aspects of our personnality we deny and can't face... A shadow to which we are not emprisoned, even though we believe we are. When we acknowledge our shadow, what it wants to tell us and teach us, and that we are in there because we want to, then we can free ourselves.
I think the card, when it shows up, means you've been lying to yourself about yourself or someone or a situation, but now the Devil is here and you have to confront some truths about yourself (or someone or situation), it won't be fun but you will feel a bit better after that. We're the one causing the troubles, the shadow is a mirror that shows us our true face.
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| Palomadov |
08 Nov 2003 |
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I see the Devil card as when it comes up for someone very differently to when it is someone's birth card. I find your interpretations, Alisa and WolfyJames, very right on about it.
As birth cards, there are several levels to a card and since it is in combo with the Lovers card, it is also about choices one makes in one's life.
I have another friend that has the Devil and Lover's cards as tarot birth cards and I certainly see their obsessive side and the wrong choices in their life.
I think the dear friend I spoke about initially is at a very high spiritual level and therefore able to balance the two energies of his birth cards nicely.
I also think the Devil card is about knowing when to release something that is not right, it certainly can show us that too. So I guess it serves its purpose.
And then the chains on the Devil's card, using RWS, are LOOSE, so it is our choice to want to free ourselves.
But it can certainly play on our negativity when we do not recognize it as such and are bound to it. It depends how we choose to feed it.
Namaste
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| firemaiden |
08 Nov 2003 |
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Seriously, Palomadov, read the thread Diana linked to. It is a very interesting thread called "The Devil, poor misunderstood fellow", and went into quite a bit of depth, with a very interesting discussion.
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| Palomadov |
08 Nov 2003 |
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I read Diana's post on the Devil card, where she asks if he is Lucifer or the Devil and also she states that he is the "bringer of Light". NOT SO! I TOTALLY disagree.
He is NOT the bringer of Light. He is the bringer of chaos.
Lucifer IS the Devil. Lucifer was God's most beautiful angel in Heaven but because he was corrupting the other angels in Heaven because he wanted to be more powerful than God, he was banished and thrown out of Heaven down to Earth, where he roams for the ruin of souls. "Nothing unclean can reside in Heaven."
When we look at the Devil and the Lovers cards in the RWS deck, we can see that the Devil has the two figures chained because he wants CONTROL over them, whereas in the Lovers card the archangel Raphael is blessing the two figures and they have FREE WILL (not chained).
Yes, we misunderstand the Devil because we underestimate him and his power and his agenda: wanting control. He will blind you to his own truths and lead you astray IF YOU LISTEN TO HIM AND LET HIM TEMPT YOU.
God gives us free will and we are ALWAYS free to choose our path of Light or Darkness.
Namaste
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| Palomadov |
08 Nov 2003 |
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Here is an interesting meaning I found on the Devil's card.
"The Devil card represents the querent's bondage to forms: physical (in terms of objects and possessions), emotional (in terms of unfulfilled desires), or mental (separate thoughts and egocentric ideas). In essence, the person is trapped in a reality that inhibits the ability to grow, create, and develop. The Divine Energy is dormant and the current situation will bring harm and destruction. Another interpretation is that the querent has given up his/her will power and is being controlled by someone of a very selfish nature."
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| HudsonGray |
08 Nov 2003 |
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Interesting, but know that not everyone on the board is Christian & can see different meanings in the Devil as well as the traditional form.
For me, the Devil is all internal stuff that has to be watched, looked at, taken into consideration or just plain paid attention to. This is not an external card where something outside is pushing in. This is 'in' pushing 'out'.
It can be lousy, nasty, bad, etc. representing obcessions, addictions, weakness and things out of control. It can also be the internal dialog a person's own mind does when the rational side doesn't shut down to let you think. And it can be a reminder that we need 'inner' time as well as outer time. To take time to think things through, to really look at all the reasons we're doing something, to watch our actions from a different place inside us for that new perspective (sort of an internal hanged man). Just like the Sun card isn't all happy happy joy joy, the Devil card isn't all nastiness and evil.
I was a little taken aback by your intense post from a religious point of view, you'd be missing a lot of what's in this card if you restrict your interpretation based just on what the Bible says about the Devil. This is tarot, there is no 'god' card, therefore I'd give the tarot a break by not thinking of the Devil card as strictly Lucifer.
But then, you do have to make your own choices in how the cards speak to you. Just remember that all the cards are very complex, subtle, and not so very straightforward as 'Devil, ok, that's all it is'.
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| Dark_angel |
08 Nov 2003 |
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My favourite Devil is in the Adrian tarot, and for me he shows a perspective that I sometimes overlook with other Devil cards - abandon. He is lustful, hence the connection with the Lovers - he shows the more physical side of relationships, a card of passion and experimentation. He goes against convention, and does not care what others think of him, which can be a good or a bad thing. His charisma makes others willing to follow him through fire and brimstone, and he acts wilfully, following his instincts rather than the rules.
xxx
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| Adele |
08 Nov 2003 |
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hi HudsonGray.. yes, I agree w/ your interpretation of the devil card... it is an internal thing going on w/ the person.
as for the religious connection... I was just making a point about Diana's post about the devil being lucifer "bringer of light"... that can NEVER be so.
Dark_Angel... I like your interpretation of the card also.
both interpretations give a nice perspective to the card.
I also see this card as having a wicked sense of humor... as my dear friend has (this and the lovers card being his birth card).
the cards also have religious meanings... in the RWS deck... the 3 archangels (michael in temperance, gabriel in judgment, raphael in lovers)... that was my point in bringing out the religious aspect of the cards.
I realize not everyone is catholic and I respect that.
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| TemperanceAngel |
08 Nov 2003 |
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amongst other things, I call the Devil the "confrontational card" because people can feel confronted when it is in their spread and quite often there is something that you do have to "confront" about yourself.
Light and love!
XTAX
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| DesertHowler |
09 Nov 2003 |
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A few weeks ago I did a shamanic journey. I was thinking about the interpretation of some of the cards. My spirit animal took me to see some characters in the Major Arcana of my Universal Waite.
One of the characters I met was The Devil. The Devil said, "Sure, I tempt them, but it is their choice. A lot of the card is about taking responsibility for your actions. They can take off the chains and walk away any time they choose to do so. They are responsible, I'm not."
DH
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| Star Spirit |
09 Nov 2003 |
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I see the Devil as temptation/obsession/indulgence in "forbidden" things such as food, drugs, sex, etc. You could be bound by these in overindulgence or bound by not giving into them enough/at all.
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| Diana |
09 Nov 2003 |
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All Tarot cards have two, three, four, five...... etc. etc. sides to them and can be interpreted in numerous ways.
To say that one card is "bad" or "good" or "light" or "dark" therefore doesn't make sense.
"There is nothing either good nor bad but thinking makes it so" (I cite the Bard here).
This week the Devil helped me get through a terrible week - so full of stress that I thought I was going to crack. I pulled the Devil at the beginning of the week for my advice card. Wow. He helped me hang on. He gave me the strength to get through all my tasks, even those that I thought I would never ever get done. It was like a fire that burned constantly and didn't let me down for one second. He showed me where my priorities were. I pray that he will accompany the week that is to come, which will probably be even "worse".
Although I have slept no more than about four or five hours a night, thanks to the Devil, I am not too tired.
Poor old Devil - such a misunderstood old fellow. I love him to bits. ((((((((((Devil))))))))))
Let us never judge a book by its cover.
(oh, and Lucifer is most definitely the bringer of light....)
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| Emily |
09 Nov 2003 |
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As much as I love my Morgan Greer I have to say that it has the worse Devil card I have ever seen. This card is so negative that it pours forth evil - With its black Goats head, yellow eyes, fangs, upturned pentagram, candle stuck on top of its head and a fly lol. To me it is the traditional Devil image but it doesn't convey the meaning of the card at all.
When I first saw it it made me think of Dennis Wheatley novels and the 1970's Hammer Horror films lol.
To me the Devil is about choices, really my views are Traditional Rider Waite, you have the choice to walk away from a situation or you can keep the chains on and stay. I get the Devil when I have a bad day at work and I know its mainly my own fault. I don't see the card as being overly negative and certainly not evil.
I'l love to know why they used such an image in the Morgan Greer and can only think it is in to shock.
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| Sulis |
09 Nov 2003 |
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Emily, your thoughts about the Devil card in the Morgan Greer deck echo my thoughts exactly. I really don't like this card and find it lacking in readable symbolism.
I too think that the devil card has a wide range of meanings. He's our shadow side. He signifies bondage to the more negative aspects of our psyche but he's also the God Pan, the Lord of the wild beasts - he signifies our base animal instincts and he reminds us to enjoy the material things in life but he warns against becoming tied to them.
He's lustful, abandoned, he tells us not to take ourselves too seriously and he's got a wicked sense of humour.
Life is all about balance and the Devil is part of that.
There is light and dark, good and bad in everything. I love the devil and think that to think of him as purely negative is to miss out on many of his aspects.
Love and light
Sulis xx
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| TemperanceAngel |
10 Nov 2003 |
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Lest we forget that poor ol' Lucifer is a fallen Angel himself!
I always have such a soft spot for him.
XTAX
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The The Devil Card thread was originally posted on 08 Nov 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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