Idea - what do you think?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Simone	13 Dec 2003
I am of the opinion that physical or health problems find their origin in deep self-limitative beliefs which rule our life, like (yeah, I know, it's simplistic and a bit stupid, example, but here it is) : If I do not believe that I can do handicrafts, every time I try to sew on a button, I'll prick myself in my finger with the needle - which confirms my belief. If ever it happened to me that I can do it without stinging myself, I'll say "it was just luck" - so as not to correct my limitative belief that I can't sew on a button... instead of reviewing the belief and building on a first experience to get enough self-confidence to say "but, yes, I can do it". I have realised that all of those beliefs - and not all so simplistic as the one in my example, leave traces in the body - energy and muscle blocks which can lead to actual illnesses or physical problems if not heeded. I have also realised that, when I do physical work with persons, like massage, Reiki, or other treatments with my hands, I often sense those physical or energy "knots" and the implications of those knots to their beliefs. An if I treat those knots, I have realised that this very often triggers a reaction in the person - like memories or emotions coming up. My idea now: I have thought of treating a person first by massage or energy treatment for let's say half an hour, and use the things that come up during the treatment as a starting point for a psychological Tarot session afterwards - as back-up and support for the person treated (my aim is that the person will not feel abandoned with what has come up). I'd do a reading/advisory session like starting with seeking out the root of the "problem" (the belief), seeing the implication in everyday life and looking out for a new way to deal with it so as to solve it. (for anyone asking the question: yes, I do have psychological / psychotherapeutical training) What do you think of the idea? I have a "guinea pig" to try it out, but I'd like to hear your opinions / suggestions to enrich and develop the idea (or to drop it if there are serious reasons to do so). Thanks in advance for your input! Light and love Simone

Mimers	13 Dec 2003
Great concept Simone! I know when I have Reiki or massage done on me, I always spend some time afterwards thinking. Things about life always pop up probably because of the energy releases you described. The only setback I could potentially see, and this might be just an induvidual thing, is that after Reiki or massage, I am all mush. I am so relaxed, I don't know if I could sit through a reading. Like I said, this could just be me. Otherwise it is a great possibility for your clients to explore what their limitations are. Mimi

yve	13 Dec 2003
I agree with Mimers...when I've had a deep massage (even a short one of 10-15 mins), I'm so relaxed I just want to fall asleep and may not be fully open to what the cards are telling me...a suggestion, what about a brief relaxation/meditation session? Meditation also has the benefits of relaxing tension and stress, but perhaps only just enough to get rid of those "knots" and still allow for the client's full attention and awareness??? Just a thought...it's all personal, and I guess trial and error would best tell what clients respond to what...perhaps you can just personalize it to the client?

Moonbow*	13 Dec 2003
Speaking as someone who has never had reiki, (but I have had 2 massages). I like this idea because it would seem to treat the person holisticly, in the mind body sense. Would it be possible to reverse these and do the cards first? Moonbow*

Simone	13 Dec 2003
Good point, Mimers - I haven't thought of that (being all "mush" after a massage or Reiki session...) :) Yve, Meditation is a great thing, too, but I had specifically thought of working on the person's body, because I have made the experience of the emotion-releasing effect of my massages/Reiki. For me, the physical facette of the whole idea seems important, because emotions are a great point to start work on, and a massage or Reiki often allows people to let go where they otherwise wouldn't. But here comes Moonbow*'s idea of reversin' the two, which I also like very much - though the approach is different then: you work on the mind first, discover things and then take decisions, and afterwards you work on the body to help it integrate the new way of thinking. My way was starting out by seeking the problem physically, undo the blockage to help the mind to easier work out the solution to the problem. Both ways have their advantages and their disadvantages, so, what I'ill do will probably be what Ive suggests: costumize it! Great! Thanks for your input - and, like always: lots of light and love on your ways! Simone

Diana	13 Dec 2003
Simone: I think this is a perfectly wonderful idea. The order you do it in will have to be experimented, I think. Once people have received a treatment (reiki, massage or whatever), I would imagine that they are usually very relaxed and more open to messages from the Tarot. They have already opened up themselves to you, the therapist, and also their bodies and minds are more at peace and not so confused. However, after having had such a treatment, one is not always in the mood for sitting down and talking - one wants to sometimes just go and let the body adjust to the new vibratory levels. I will be very interested to see the outcome of this new idea of yours.

lark	13 Dec 2003
I thought of a third thing you might consider (if you don't feel the person needs to actually be present for the reading.) If they are feeling to mushy for a reading you might tape one for them while your impressions are fresh in your mind and send it to them later as part of their massage/Reki experience. Just a thought I had as I was reading this thread. Sitting quietly and listening to the tape would be very helpful and also bring up other questions and things to work on in there next session.

Mimers	13 Dec 2003
Simone, I think lark has an excellent idea here! Definitely worth considering. Good luck and I will also add how impressed I am at how you want to help your clients in any way you can. This makes for a wonderful healer. Mimi

Cerulean	13 Dec 2003
On dexterity: If you did a self-finger massage and then also rubbed the muscles in the base of your thumb, would that help your dexterity and delicacy of touch? I actually think sewing in terms of threading a needle or doing a button involves visual cues and dexterity, which is easier for me than for some people. But I've got to read and work with tiny print and numbers a lot, so contacts that can see tiny detail and fingers trained at manipulating keyboards, small spaces and what they call small hands can assist. ------------------------ On massage with tarot: A gentleman that I know over fifty was interested in massage studies, but the young female therapists said that most likely unless he was working in a related field (like coaching, atheletic fitness, physical therapist, nursing or choiropractor), they thought his clients would be limited. He wasn't into related health studies, so he didn't pursue it. Your impression of doing hands-on relaxation would not appeal to me if I was interested in a tarot reading. I don't ever plan to consult palmistry experts, as I am incredibly picky about my hands--no nail salons, etc., The people who cut my hair are brotherly and sisterly, so I feel comfortable with their services. This is a minority opinion. I do workouts and have a partner strong enough to assist with muscle knots. Possibly many would prefer your services if someone likes East Indian reiki, Japanese shiatsu and is open to more Western ways of thoughts as well.

Star Spirit	14 Dec 2003
I just wanted to say, I like your idea, and I like the concept :)

Simone	15 Dec 2003
Hi, all, Thanks for your lovely feedback - I really appreciate! Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki On dexterity: If you did a self-finger massage and then also rubbed the muscles in the base of your thumb, would that help your dexterity and delicacy of touch? I actually think sewing in terms of threading a needle or doing a button involves visual cues and dexterity, which is easier for me than for some people. But I've got to read and work with tiny print and numbers a lot, so contacts that can see tiny detail and fingers trained at manipulating keyboards, small spaces and what they call small hands can assist. Actually, I do not sew ;) - but if I sew on buttons, if necessary, I can do this quite well. It was just an example to illustrate... :laugh: Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Your impression of doing hands-on relaxation would not appeal to me if I was interested in a tarot reading. I don't ever plan to consult palmistry experts, as I am incredibly picky about my hands--no nail salons, etc., The people who cut my hair are brotherly and sisterly, so I feel comfortable with their services. Sure, but with specific persons, interested self-developement, this could be quite an interesting combination ;) But I would like to clarify something: I am not working professionally neither in massage, nor in the psychological branch, nor in tarots, even if I have, to some extent, trainings in all of those. So those people I work with are not really clients, and the services I propose are rather friendship-services based on exchange. And I wouldn't really call myself a "healer", Mimers :) Of course, even with friends, I do my best, and my first "guinea pig" has reported very interesting results: she told me that, instead of being "all mush" after the treatment, her clarity of mind and level of energy had been raised so that the follow-up session went very positively for her... Light and love Simone

Alissa	15 Dec 2003
I've held off replying to this until I could give it a little thought .... I also do a type of bodywork (nueromuscular re-education) that facilitates the body's ability to release emotional holds, as you described. I've seen the powerful and beneficial effect it can have. But, combining Tarot with massage, or with my own bodywork ... I wouldn't do it. They might be relaxed afterwards as mentioned, blissed out and not paying much attention. Also, for my own style of work, I believe you already give the pupil's body and mind so much to digest in one of my lessons, that adding a reading to it would be too much for them to absorb, to assimilate. Lastly, someone who just released a hold within the body (be it from emotional trauma, physical injury, or psychological armoring) is in a very ... tender state. They're vulnerable. That's why they held on to that spot for so long, it gave them some security and/or control over what they've been through. I prefer to honor that emotionally fragile state and remain quiet, to be with them instead of talk at them during those times. From my own times that I've been the pupil, and experienced spontaneously bawling from an emotional hold releasing, the last thing I'd want to do is sit down and *analyze* it. I'm too wiped out from the process of releasing.

Simone	15 Dec 2003
Alissa, up to a certain degree, you are right, and I am grateful to you for bringing the topic of analysing or not after an emotional release. I think there are people wanting to, and others just needing to be accompanied with presence afterwards. In the latter case, I think I'll just need to adapt the session: no reading or talking session, but a fix appointment for a new session for back-up and to see how things are progessing and integrating themselves in the person's live. In my experience, often it is simply not enough to just relieve the tension and release the pent-up emotions - it's learning to prevent oneself from re-creating them over and over again... and if you discover consciously why you have created the tensions and find out a new way to deal with the same kind of situations, it helps. So, as I said, I'm still in a trial-and-error phase, but I think all of your input plus intuitive adaptation to the specific individual needs will help me find the right way for everyone! Thanks Light and Love Simone

Imagemaker	15 Dec 2003
I have a massage therapist who always starts each session asking me to form an intention for the massage. She and I haved worked together for about 4 years on mindfulness practices, independently of the massages I receive from her. And occasionally after a massage from her, I do a tarot reading for *her*. The massage opens up my channels of awareness and we are very connected. We get very clear messages from the cards and the experience is awesome.

Moonbow*	15 Dec 2003
I have a friend who has reiki regularly and she told me that her reiki bloke tells her things while she's being done! Then after he's gone she thinks about what he's said and has questions for him for next time Moonbow*

Simone	15 Dec 2003
Moonbow*, "reiki blokes" :laugh: often see / sense things during a session. I do too, sometimes I even say things I do not understand myself. But I always ask the person if he/she wants to hear the things. It's worth considering to use this during my "experiments" too. Thanks for the idea! Light and Love Simone

Alex	27 Dec 2003
and it's also not new. W.Reich dedicated his life to developing them. Cheers Alex.

Simone	28 Dec 2003
Alex, Yes, I can imagine that the idea is not new - is there anything new in this world after all this time of developement of humanity on earth? Is there a reference where I can find the work of W. Reich? I've never heard of him! Simplistic? Certainly not - it'll have to be adapted to each individual, this I have already seen. But I think it very interesting and would really like to try it out and go some way into this direction. The "Observer" in me wants to experiment ;) ... not malign though, I always put my actions in the interest of love and developement! Light and love Simone

Alex	29 Dec 2003
If you go to amazon.com and type "Wilhelm Reich" it will bring a few references. I particularly like "character analysis" and "the function of orgasm", followed by "The Mass Psychology of Fascism" and of course "Listen, Little Man!". I don't know where you are, but in Brazil there's a Reichian therapist in every corner. Here in the US, he's nearly ignored. Reich took exile in the US during the war, but ended up dying at an US prision, after being charged of charlatanism. Alex.

Simone	29 Dec 2003
Thanks, Alex, I'll look it up later today. Those titles certainly sound interesting! I'm located in Luxembourg - I'll have to see if Wilhelm Reich's works can be available over here. Light and Love Simone

anjocoxo	29 Dec 2003
I don't know if this might help, but here's my story; I have a friend whose mother died a year ago, more or less. She's 23 years old, and since her parents were divorced, she is basically alone when it comes to family. She is a very sensitive person, one of those who can see auras and sense things, and we really get along well because we have similar ways of thinking. This weekend I went over to her house and did her a reiki treatment (I only have reiki 1), and I could really feel she needed it, her body was shaking as I was doing the treatment. I did it in 30 minutes and after that we did a reading about her mother. The cards said simply that her mother knew very well what her status was, and that she had died in peace (she got the 4 of swords), longing to rest. I have seen a feeling of total peace in my friend's eyes, it was as if she had finally got rid of this big burden, which was the psychological weight of her mother's death. I felt so good... it's on those ocasions that I really liked to have my own "holistic center" or something like that, because I really want to help people. Good luck with your idea. :) Anjo

Simone	29 Dec 2003
Hi, anjocoxo, What a beautiful story! My sympathy to your friend! I think you helped your friend's body and mind to accept the death of the mother in order to let her go on her way in peace... I believe to know that in general, Southern Europeans (I noticed you come from Portugal) have a different approach to death, due to their catholic environment and growing up. Would it be an idea to work on the concept of death together? (i.e. for example that the death of a person is an individual (subconscious) decision of the person's soul him/herself, to move on into different realms, instead of seeing it as something coming from outside, which would take away its aspect of tragedy or injustice? Light and love Simone

anjocoxo	29 Dec 2003
I don't know if it's because of the weight of the catholic church here in portugal, but we see death as something very painful, even when we know that the person was suffering too much and it was better this way. I'll give you an example: my great-grand-mother became a widow at the age of 30 and never remarried again. From the day of the death of her husband until the day she died she never, ever, wore another colour other than black. I've always remember seeing her in black. She mourned all her life, I supposed, but with that attituted, she basically died inside, for the rest of the world (I also never heard her laughing... and seldom saw her smiling). I'm hoping that the new generation, in which I'm included, starts seeing things differently. I can see small differences, with people I know (friends, mostly), but here death is always seen with much grief. I guess we love too much life to feel or think that it's possible to pass on to a better place. We don't discuss much about souls... Anjo

The Idea - what do you think? thread was originally posted on 13 Dec 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.