Where do you draw the line?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Justin	07 Jan 2004
I've been doing readings for a friend of mine for months now. In total there have about 10 readings. She has really enjoyed the readings and i've been able to provide her with a lot of advice. I'm not trying to give myself more credit than is do, but i have given these readings free of charge and she continually asked me "when is our next reading?" I haven't charged anything and i'm beginning to feel taken advantage of. The crappy part is that i don't feel she's doing this on purpose. My question is, where do i draw the line and how do i bring up the fact that i'm feeling drained by these readings and not getting anything in return? How do i let her know that reading takes energy and that i'm at a point where i don't feel i can continue to do this for free? Any advice would be greatlly appreciated. How do you go from doing readings for practice to doing them for an exchange???? Justin

Simone	07 Jan 2004
Hi, Justin, is there any problem about simply telling that you feel taken advantage of and that the readings are draining you? If it is not conscious on her part, all the better reason to tell, or else, this will continue. You could explain this gently and give your friend the choice between - spacing the readings in time and do them only in emergency cases if you do not want to charge - asking her something in exchange (like: does she have any special talents or capacities you couls profit from in exchange?) - not to read for her any more (pretty radical, I know) if she's not ready to "pay" in one way or another. There are some thoughts coming to me: - does she think of other people in general, or just in this case? Is she self-centered without any regards (even if this might not be her view of it and she's not conscious of it)? - too frequent readings could perhaps do more harm than benefit (note that I said perhaps), i.e. if she feels that insecure, she could rather try to work this out than trying to calm herself with readings... Anyway, in short, I'd say talking about it is vital if you do not want this friendship to die because of lack of exchange (feeling taken advantage of creates bad feelings...). Light and Love Simone

Jen	07 Jan 2004
Hi Justin, Maybe you could tell her you're no longer doing reading's for *anyone* without an exchange. You can explain to her the way energy works and that you now realize when you read for anyone you need an exchange of energy so that you're not left drained. By using the term anyone, it seems less directed at her and more "across the board". And this really could be your new rule. See you tonight! Jen

ros	07 Jan 2004
Hi, Mabee tell everyone that you want to take your readings to a more professional level & by charging will make your reading more professional.You will appreciate yourself more also. You will find out what your friends really think of you when you begin to charge. Some will stick by you & the others will be long gone. Just an idea.

ros	07 Jan 2004
P.S. "Put value on the things you value" Does that fit in here somewhere?

Rusty Neon	07 Jan 2004
Yes, I agree it is hard to draw the line. But when considering whether you have received fair exchange, consider the other factors: Do friends charge when they invite you over to dinner? Do friends charge for the value of their time, their story-telling and humour? Do friends charge when you need a shoulder to cry on?

allibee	07 Jan 2004
You could help her to help you, and help herself at the same time ... simply involve her in the decision process. "Hi ... guess what, I've decided to turn professional as people keep suggesting I should get something back for my help and guidance ... how much do you think I should charge?" "... what would you say is a reasonable price ... how much would you pay? Obviously my friends like you will get it a cheaper..." To which one would hope for a reply ... "Oh no, I'll pay the same as everybody else..." Thus planting the seed. I KNOW its a manipulation of sorts, but some people do need a prod sometimes, especially when they are niave Good luck! allibee (heathen at large ... or maybe just a large heathen ;) )

Imagemaker	07 Jan 2004
You all have such great suggestions, some I can use in other energy-draining situations. The hard step is deciding to let go of anxiety/fear over what the person's reaction will be--embracing whatever happens. Sometimes that's waving goodbye to a friendship and sometimes it's finding a deeper level of connection. I'm finding that careful honesty on my part in one of these situations is a real test of another's caring for me. I don't want them to fail--we both lose. Ok, thoroughly depressed now.

LadyMedusa	07 Jan 2004
I really like Allibee's sugestion. I have used similar tactics many times on the job. As a manager, I found involving the "problem" in the solution worked wonders. When you make someone feel like they are an integral part of the solution, many times they never notice that THEY were a major part of the problem. LadyMedusa .

Majecot	07 Jan 2004
Justin, I think you need to decide what kind of a friend she is.. is this your best friend that you share everything with? or is she just a "casual friend" but not a close one. I would try to work out an exchange of some type. I would never charge my best friend for a reading, (or dinner). But I have friends that are on different levels.. I have a "friend" that I know casually who asked me to sew her Halloween costume (with out pay of course) and had asked after not having seen her in several months. That was trying to take advantage. edited for an after thought... have you considered teacher her to read tarot???

miss_apples	07 Jan 2004
maybe you can get her a deck of her own tarot cards as a valentines day present and teach her how to read for herself. I know that some people say its not a good idea to read for onesself. But at least it would keep her off of you for awhile.

Emily	07 Jan 2004
I like Majecot's idea - next time she asks you to read for her, tell her that this reading is going to be a little different. Lay the cards and ask her what she can see. If she's had at least 10 readings from you she must be interested. Then ask her if she wants to learn how to read them herself because your not going to be able to continue with the readings for anybody for a while not just her, as you need a rest. :) Failing that have some business cards printed up, with rates on, and after her next reading give her one, then tell her that from now on your going to be charging for your readings. :D

HudsonGray	07 Jan 2004
I was leaning towards having her learn tarot on her own, too, maybe get her one of those low cost used Rider decks online or such & walking her through her first reading, basically get her more involved in her own decisions on what to do with the future. Unless this would have her running to you with all sorts of questions about the deck....that wouldn't get rid of your stress levels I guess. Otherwise tell her you've reached the level where you want to start charging, and see what happens. Free is nice, but not when you end up in the situation you're in.

TemperanceAngel	07 Jan 2004
All really sound advice :) 1. Make her do the work in the reading? 2. Tell her she doesn't need another reading (10 is a lot in a few months!) 3. Do a 'swap' with her. Eg: I was doing a reading for a woman who worked with my husband yesterday, I know her as well. She arrived with a dozen pink roses in her hand. LOVELY :) It doesn't have to be a reading in exchange. I have had friens give me a massage, a book, cook me dinner, the list is endless... 4. Tell her you find it draining. 5. Tell her you think she is taking advantage of the situation, but tell her gently. 6. Guide her to purchasing her own deck. How close is your friend? I would never do free readings for friends and then out of the blue ask for money. You need to be honest with her, that's the key. Honesty makes a great reader :) GOOD LUCK XTAX Edited to add no. 6!

TemperanceAngel	07 Jan 2004
P.S. Maybe she has a crush on you.....

Majecot	07 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel P.S. Maybe she has a crush on you..... aaahhh!!!! perhaps that is it exactly **nods**

Shesawolf	07 Jan 2004
I personally would be flattered if someone close to me felt that the information I was giving/discovering was so helpful that they asked for more. But I do understand the aspect of feeling 'drained'. Like Jen, I would be more comfortable with an "exchange" of talents or skills, instead of money... I've never had much luck mixing luck with friends. For instance I have one friend that is always there to calm me when I'm upset... and another that has a truck when I need one. Maybe you feel drained because she isn't 'giving' you something you need from her? Money is both too easy and too hard to ask for...

Black dragon	08 Jan 2004
I'd more agree with "Rusty Neon" you shouldn't really charge anything to friends as they wouldn't do so to you. just mention how draining it is, if she is a good friend then she will slow the requests or try learning herself. Black Dragon.

TemperanceAngel	13 Jan 2004
I am still wondering how you have handled the situation, or how you plan to handle??? XTAX

Majecot	14 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel I am still wondering how you have handled the situation, or how you plan to handle??? XTAX Me too

sprite	14 Jan 2004
i know i was reading for some girls i had worked with and at first i didnt charge them and that was fine while they were getting used to me and realizing that the reading ere working for them. and after a short period of time i simply asked for donations and they were fine with that. the least i got was 5 bucks and the most 20. and when they brought their friends to me they already let them know and they came prepared. it just seemed to work well for everyone, and i felt not taken advantage of

anjocoxo	14 Jan 2004
I started having the same problem where I worked; I didn't mind at first, but then I got tired, mostly because it was always the same people asking exactly the same questions... So, I got one solution: I'm not taking cards to work anymore. I only take when some people ask me for them, and next day I take them. But just when it's someone who has a different question, or when I see that someone really needs it. I don't have the guts to ask for money, but I was getting tired of being always the same thing... especially when they 1) didn't hear what I say, and next day they were asking again (as if tarot was a cute game) 2) they take everything I said for granted and spend all day terrified because they got the tower (of course that my advices were ignored...) So, now I simply don't take them... my cards are taking holidays. :D Anjo

TemperanceAngel	14 Jan 2004
BUT where is Justin :confused: XTAX

Justin	15 Jan 2004
Sorry, it's been a crazy couple of weeks!! I haven't checked this thread in a while and i didn't know that it was getting such a good response! So, i'll fill you all in on some more info and on some stuff that i've decided. I haven't a reading with her since my last one that sparked this thread, she's been extremelly busy as well. As far as the crush is concerned, i don't think that's an issue. Kimmi is actually the best friend of my boyfriend. He and i have been together for over two years and she knows i'm gay, and even if i wasn't, i'm totally not her type. As far as what i've decided to do, i'm still kind of up in the air. THe last reading we had was kind of blank. THere just wasn't a lot of new information. Because she and i did so many readings in a short amount of time, i think we've pretty much exhausted all of the answers and the cards have told her all that they need her to know for right now. I'll probablly explain that to her as well either before she asks for another reading, or when she does, which ever comes first. I also really like the idea of getting her her own deck. I think she'd like that and be open to learning about tarot. There's a whole different side to this issue that i didn't clarify in my original thread. The readings are definitely and issue and i am feeling drained and like i'm putting a lot out there and not getting enough in return. However, the three of us are having issues right now about how much time she and my boyfriend spend together and how much she's involved in our lives. She's kind of become a personal assistant to my boyfriend and he's having her help him some pretty personal things as far as our relationship is concerned. SHe helps him with his taxes, does he computer work for him, and a ton of other things. THere's basically a lot of boundary issues in general that need to be dealt with. Without getting too much more involved, i do want to say that regardless of all this stuff, i really do like this girl as a person and a friend and would still be having the same problem with the readings (and being drained) even if there wasn't all this other stuff involved. I just thought that i'd tell you all a little bit about the circumstances so you would have a better idea of what's going on. So as of right now, i haven't decided anything for sure yet, but i'm leaning towards telling her that the cards are "used up" for right now and getting her her own deck. Thank you all for your interest AND your ideas. I've learned a lot and appreciate all the input. And i will keep you updated as to what's going on. Sorry again for the absence and thank you again for the adivce~!! Justin

MeeWah	15 Jan 2004
Justin: In answer to your original question "Where do you draw the line?": one draws the line whenever/wherever one feels uncomfortable & unable "to process". Ye owe yourself that or ye would be doing a dis-service to self & to the querent. People who do not read or do not know Tarot oft tend to have no concept of the process; what is involved in reading nor of the demands it makes upon the reader. Such demands depends upon any number of variables including the nature of the query & the reader. Whilst there may be as many ways to read as there are readers, generally it requires the engagement of at least part to all of one's faculties & resources. As in any endeavor, reading requires an exchange of energy. Ye decide if ye want to establish some type of exchange/barter. Reading can be draining & especially so if there are personal or other issues related to the querent, let alone the possible reciprocation of energy. Aside from the usual matter of separating from the querent to do the reading, there is the additional need for detachment other than the mere detachment from a querent, such as from any personal knowledge & its associated emotions or the relationship dynamics. Despite the number of readings your friend has received, she may be ignorant of the process. A frank discussion of your view *as a reader*could assist the particular situation. Ye could tell her that readings can take time to fully express. Too frequent readings do not permit what is already in effect to work out. If what is given is not used or if no changes have occurred at her end, the nature or the level of information will not change appreciably. If anything, the cards tend to be repetitious or to not make sense, thus impart confusion rather than clarity or insight. It can be difficult to understand that one is responsible for oneself. The cards in & of themselves do not do *anything*. The cards can describe a trend, the status quo, the underlying basis of a matter & possibilities pertaining to any or all of these. Thereby contribute to insight or to inspiration but will not necessarily provide "an answer" or a "fix-it". If she is so inclined, encouraging her to get her own Tarot deck or giving her one may be part of a solution. I encounter people who ask for readings as casually as if one would ask the time of day or just in passing. Whilst some of the requests are serious, most of them are just to pass the time, such as at work where I am not confined to my office but usually visible & on call due to the nature of my job (they follow me to breakroom or restroom). I prefer to keep my regular job separate from Tarotwork because not fair to my employer so I do not publicize but word-of-mouth does. Depending on what else I may have on the burner--make that burners--I tell them to get back to me & hand them a business card. To those who have internet access, I also direct them to this website. Unless they are completely clueless, this signals I am serious about my work. This also weeds out the casual request. With time, practice & experience in reading & dealing with various querents, the comfort level will adjust as well as the knowledge with which to handle each querent & reading.

TemperanceAngel	15 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Justin So as of right now, i haven't decided anything for sure yet, but i'm leaning towards telling her that the cards are "used up" for right now and getting her her own deck. Thank you all for your interest AND your ideas. I've learned a lot and appreciate all the input. And i will keep you updated as to what's going on. Sorry again for the absence and thank you again for the adivce~!! Justin Justin, I am glad you have given this some thought :) It sounds as though the Tarot issue really is part of a bigger picture that you have to deal with, good luck :) People often think because you are sitting there that you don't use any energy :confused: XTAX

The Where do you draw the line? thread was originally posted on 07 Jan 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.