Im So Confused!
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Feb 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Snuggle_69217 |
06 Feb 2004 |
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i was Reading through the cards and im trying to learn What they mean..And i am having a Very hard time..Whats The Difference Between Basic Tarot Meaning and Thirteen's observations..If anyone COuld possibly Put down FOr What the fool means or any other card like magician Or High priestess i would appreciate it..thanks a ton :)
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| cricket |
06 Feb 2004 |
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The problem with putting things down like that is the fact that the meaning of the cards can change with each spread. Before you let that put you off of learning, let me give you the best piece of advice given to me after first picking up the cards.
Don't let anybody else tell you what it means.
Each person has had different experiences in life, so each card will resonate differently to them. The best thing you can do is to either keep researching and choose the meanings you like best or to start your own journal. Completely ignore what other people say, unless you ask their advice on it, and put your own meanings into a book. That way you'll have your own associations and you will have learned by doing it yourself.
Another thing you could do is to put all written meanings aside completely and just take your clues to the meaning from the pictures on the cards themselves (assuming you're using an illustrated deck). This will waken the intuition and often give a better meaning than any by-the-book reading.
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| lawguy51 |
06 Feb 2004 |
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Originally posted by cricket
Another thing you could do is to put all written meanings aside completely and just take your clues to the meaning from the pictures on the cards themselves (assuming you're using an illustrated deck). This will waken the intuition and often give a better meaning than any by-the-book reading.
Let me muddle things up a bit and say that I must respectifully disagree with Cricket, although there are many in this forum who would agree. There are tremendous books on Tarot for the beginner and with Tarot having such a rich and storied history, steeped in esoteric tradition, why anyone would suggest to a beginner that he or she go it alone with his or her intuition only, baffles me. Yes, I understand the purity of it, but please, how many of us could have made any sense of these 78 cards without the help of a few good books. But then again, I love books and I love the authors who have taken the time to impart their particular wisdom to the public. My advice, get hold of a copy of 78 Degrees of Wisdom.
Lawguy51
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| HudsonGray |
06 Feb 2004 |
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Best advice I ever got was that each card is a small story in itself. Each card basically contains part of a larger story so the entire deck actually covers most everything that can happen to a person.
Keep reading--compare what each book says about each card (check how they all compare the Fool, for instance, then the next card, etc.), and you'll start seeing similarities.
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| lawguy51 |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Hmmm, that's weird, my post appeared twice. So I deleted it in this one. Never mind :)
LG51
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| Umbrae |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Here’s one for you, ever hear this:
"Who caught his blood?
I said the fish,
with my little dish.
I caught his blood.”
It’s Verse 3, from The Death and Burial of Poor Cock Robin. You’ll find it in old “Mother Goose” books.
You know, just an opinion here, times change. Language changes with the times. Back when the ‘Death and Burial’ verse was written, the word ‘gay’ carried a very different meaning
Now I may have a different idea of the real history of the Tarot. But we are not here to discuss what I believe.
Historians tell us that the meanings of tarot cards were essentially ‘made up’ by a couple of guys. The Tarot did not come from Egypt; it did not come from the Roma, (or Gypsies). It was a card game that had a few folks saying, ”Oh my…deep meanings” and Tarot for divination was born. We can learn this from "A Wicked Pack of Cards, The Origins of the Occult Tarot” by Decker, DePaulis, and Dummett.
The meanings ascribed to the cards by some experts between 1750-1850 have never changed with the times. The world has changed (it is dynamic), but the meanings of the cards have remained static.
Nobody can adequately agree on the “Meanings” of the cards; which is why I preach – throw the books away! You want to learn Divination by Tarot? Throw the books away and start with an empty mind.
I want you to think about the time period from which most of the Little White Books plagiarized their source materials. Turn of the nineteenth century, and the author was Arthur Edward Waite.
Times change, but Little White Books do not. Most authors never look at history when they write their overpriced books either. Most are trash.
I admit that I’m passionate about this…
Tarot meanings are not set in stone, and that's the problem with books - the writer attempts to lock meaning into their world-view. Remember, as we learn to read tarot, that books stress the card meanings…this means this and that means that. Spreads tend to have static positions also.
Neither spreads nor meanings should be static. Even a three-card spread is not a static ‘thing’. That’s why I have always stressed that time should be spent learning the three card spread, in order to learn ‘how cards relate to each other’.
Life you see, is dynamic, and tarot should reflect life.
When you begin reading for real, you will find that a lot gets revealed by the substance and quality of that which is exchanged between the sitter and the reader.
What I’m discussing here is that, (IMO) you cannot learn to read for others from a book, you learn by doing readings.
You can ask others, including me, for advice and opinions, but the only thing that counts in your readings, is your own advice, opinions, and knowledge.
So there is a difference between listening to the cards, and attempting to impose meanings based upon what our ego knows.
If you read Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom, you will find that Rachel Pollack specifically states that the meaning ideas presented in the book are ideas – and not set in stone.
So toss the books and begin journaling. Learn your own style – find your own voice.
Edited to add: If you become a parrot – repeating memorized meanings, your readings will contain no ‘context’ with the sitter’s life.
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| lunalafey |
07 Feb 2004 |
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one thing you might try is to do daily; 3 to 5 card spreads about something you have planned for the day. Do readings about the past, things you know. Write your thoughts, the things you see. Then look at the traditional meanings- from there you will see other things, that are related to the issue and the things you wrote. More thoughts will come to you from that. It was this sort of 'connect the dots' sort of thing that helped me learn the meanings, and how everything blends together with the cards & the spread.
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| Star Spirit |
07 Feb 2004 |
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I have to agree mostly with Umbrae. The other readers make good points though, too. Start with simple spreads, try to draw your own meanings from the cards. What do they make you feel?
It's hard being in that raw beginner stage. We were all there once, I remember what it was like. It takes a while for you to really get your feel with tarot. I don't think research and books are all bad, as long as you also apply your own meanings and realize that nothing in tarot (not the card meanings, the symbolism, the spreads, the readings) is constant or static. The bad thing about book meanings is that tarot was not made to be read like a book. It is made to be read intuitively, to change and transform with each reading. It creates a new story every time, and it could not do that if the meanings were always the same. It is kind of hard to learn, however, soully on one's own interpretations, because as humans we tend to doubt ourselves when we are not sure of something. In this case, it is fine to research and listen to other insights. Journaling is a very good idea. Keep track of your studies and what you learn along the way. One thing I suggest is that if you really feel you need some assistance, seek out a good book--I've heard 78 Degrees of Wisdom is quite good (I wouldn't know I've never owned a real tarot book, I just got my first and it's a book of spreads :D). But before you read, look at each card, write down what it makes you feel, what you see in the symbolism, etc. Then compare and contrast with the book meaning. More often than not your interpretations will match, and sometimes it won't. But that's a good thing ;) Don't forget that. You'll find your footing.
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| Phoenyx* |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Originally posted by lawguy51
Let me muddle things up a bit and say that I must respectifully disagree with Cricket, although there are many in this forum who would agree. There are tremendous books on Tarot for the beginner and with Tarot having such a rich and storied history, steeped in esoteric tradition, why anyone would suggest to a beginner that he or she go it alone with his or her intuition only, baffles me. Yes, I understand the purity of it, but please, how many of us could have made any sense of these 78 cards without the help of a few good books. But then again, I love books and I love the authors who have taken the time to impart their particular wisdom to the public. My advice, get hold of a copy of 78 Degrees of Wisdom.
Lawguy51
I have to agree with Lawguy here. I love books too, so that may be a problem as well, but, without some sort of foothold in understanding at least what the symbols are, how can you get beyond what are very simply, pretty pictures?
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| Snuggle_69217 |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Thanks Everyone for your help!! THis really helped me a lot
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| catdoc |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Snuggle,
Having begun my own study of the tarot not so very long ago, I thought I might chime in with my thoughts on learning 'card meanings'
I think that most people who are drawn to the tarot would agree that memorizing an arbitrary list of meanings is not what held their attention beyond their initial exposure. There is something far more useful and facinating about the tarot than that.
One of the reasons I believe that tarot has seen such an explosion of popularity is the fact that it provides an avenue of personal growth and insight about the human experience that one may pursue in his or her own individual way. Is it also a way in which we may receive information from that which lies outside of our concious realm? Perhaps, it sure seems to function in such a way for some readers.
Those who are most adamant that you should not let anyone tell you what a given card means may perhaps be responding to the fact that learning the tarot (at least in this day and age) is not an entry into a 'priesthood' with a set of proscribed rituals and secrets available to only the select few at the top of the hierarchy, and any suggestion that it is raises hackles.
"life is dynamic and tarot should reflect life"
Life may have changed dramatically since the late 1700's, but I do not believe human nature has changed all that much since our days as hunter gathers. I like HudsonGray's comments. The description of tarot cards as little pictures that are part of a bigger picture (i.e. the entire deck) which manages to contain most anything that can occur in a lifetime works well for me. Tarot decks have certainly evolved over the years. I would consider that dyanmic. The pictures have changed to reflect changes in our culture and symbology. There are decks suited to so many tastes and asthetics. And yet as Umbrae herself suggests, "the meanings have stayed the same". There are many decks of cards which do not follow the structure of a 'tarot' deck and those are popular and quite useful, however the 78 card deck of little pictures remains a standard that we come back to time and time again. Perhaps because the meanings and structure of such a collection of images serves well as an expression of what we have found to be true about ourselves.
My advice then would be to learn the 'structure' of tarot decks. See how all of the little pictures fit together. Then the meanings of individual cards will begin to make sense to you and you will eventually be able to allow your intuition to be your guide. I think that it is foolish to not employ the many books and other materials available to increase you awareness and depth of understanding of the tarot. That is far different from letting someone tell you what the cards mean.
Deb
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| lawguy51 |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Originally posted by Umbrae
If you read Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom, you will find that Rachel Pollack specifically states that the meaning ideas presented in the book are ideas – and not set in stone.
Hmmmm....looks like someone read a book on Tarot ;) .
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| Umbrae |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Originally posted by lawguy51
Hmmmm....looks like someone read a book on Tarot ;) .
Yessss, I have.
However I read for others, for many years before I cracked my first book on Tarot. So I already had a foundation - rather than attempt to build one with the thoughts of others.
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| lawguy51 |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Originally posted by Umbrae
Yessss, I have.
However I read for others, for many years before I cracked my first book on Tarot. So I already had a foundation - rather than attempt to build one with the thoughts of others.
Ouch. Umbrae, you know I respect you but on this point we are so far apart. Methinks thee protest too much. Your method works for you, but for we mere mortals, the thoughts of others come in very handy indeed. By sifting through those learned thoughts, we build upon our own intuitive understanding of the cards and create a much fuller connection with them. Oops, gotta go. My books are due back at the library.
LG51 ;)
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| HudsonGray |
07 Feb 2004 |
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Yes, us common folk still metamorphisizing out of the slime & primordial ooze---(it's ok, I'm a bottom feeding scum sucking Merchant in the SCA so I'm proud of it).
Books! Libraries! It used to take me two hours just to get OUT of one when I went in through the door. I'm better now, I keep all my books at home.
Damn! I can't even spell today! And me with no dictionary at hand...
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The Im So Confused! thread was originally posted on 06 Feb 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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