RWS vs PiPs vs Thoth vs ???

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Feb 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mercenary30	17 Feb 2004
In my studies, I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out why there are so many different interpretations for the minors, especially in comparing the current list of deck types. I have come to my own conclusion, that there really is not a lot of differences between them. The biggest difference is in what interpretation is being selected when creating the illustration or writing the book. There are very few instances where I don’t see any correlation between a particular illustration, and the myriad of other possible meanings of the card. So Mrs. Smith decided to use darker images for some cards, say 10 of Swords for example. I have found a negative description that fits the illustration depicts. There were other descriptions available, many of the them more positive. This includes some of the meanings found when using numerological definitions for the cards. The problem for me is that I am learning to read using RWS, clones, and other illustrated decks. I also want to be able to read using my 1JJ Swiss, my Marseilles, Old English, or even my Egyptian Tarot. So now I am working on expanding my “vocabulary” for the different cards so that I have a better understanding of what that card could possibly represent. I don’t want to be tied to the RWS representation or my interpretation of it. (Sorry Umbrae) I have been reading many books on tarot and on the different takes of what the cards mean. This is not to say that I don’t look at the card and decide what it means to me. But since Marseilles is a legitimate form of tarot, (at least that what Diana says), and 10 cups on a card looks like someone is well on the way to a hangover, I want to be able to understand the card and not rely on the picture in my head. I find myself wanting to rectify the differences. Determine my own proof, so to speak. I am finally starting to get more comfortable with that. What say you? (big edit to word it better.......)

ros	17 Feb 2004
I think of all the studying I did to get it right & I became aware that there is no right or wrong way of reading the Tarot, everyone interpretations are right according to their ideas. If we use the book or interprete we are learning for ourselves & it doesn't matter as long as it works for us. It's like asking 10 people their interpetation of a tree. You will get tall, Maple, bushes, shade, leaves, roots, home for animals, nature etc. they all are right. RWS vs Thoth or any other I find the "roots are the same but the branches grow different". lol how this? I feel after we let go of having to know the meaning it all falls into place with the knowledge we found along the way on our path of learning. Just an idea.

Alissa	17 Feb 2004
I find I have different ways of reading, different styles, that emerge with different decks. A RWS or RWS clone will often click the traditional interpretations of a card, either minor or major. Other decks that stray far and wide from the RWS school push me away from that impulse when reading. I'll try to give an example... 10 Swords in a RWS deck often has me talking about experiencing difficulties, and perhaps making more of one's trauma than truly exists. I may discuss betrayal issues. The 10 Swords in the Vargo deck shows a skeleton in the same position as our standard RWS illustration (almost a RWS clone), but the swords pierce his skeletal remains. There are no wounds. There is nothing left. This keys me more into saying something about the "end of a cycle" or realizing something has long since finished, and it's time to let it go. And, to go even further, the 10 Swords in the Decameron deck shows a half clad woman astride a companion whose face is covered with foliage. Her expression could be considered wary, or enamoured... hard to tell. With this deck, I might say one is in a situation that may or may not be dangerous, that they should beware of rash actions or decisions in the matter and to be sure they "know who they're dealing with." Ok... now... In my opinion... all three of those are legitimate 10 Swords interpretations. They all have a similar element of truth, almost like an energy, that shifts through the prism of the deck in hand, distorting and/or magnifying its underlying message due partly to the cards' illustrations. They say the same thing differently, like ros describes. And, just my opinion, book learning is helpful when it provides authentic answers. We know when we aren't getting authentic answers... we go and find another book, right? If you get fed up with the books, just set them aside and use the cards. You said you wanted to read with your 1JJ Swiss, my Marseilles, Old English, or even my Egyptian Tarot, so do it! Personally, 10 cups = hangover is another legitimate interpretation of that card, and one I would have never thought of. There doesn't have to be just one right answer, right?

mercenary30	17 Feb 2004
I guess, now that I think about it, that this has gone from a study to understand the cards, to more of a quest to 'search the trees to see if they share the same roots.' I believe I have found enough evidence to say they do and be comfortable with my decision. I was doing just fine until someone pointed out that pips were read differently. Then I dug in and found numerology references correlated with the 4 minor types. I found astrology references, and all kinds of stuff. I have not even done many readings since then because I have been trying to rectify this. (Pretty lame.) Thanks for the responses, they helped me determine that I am comfortable with tarot roots and my path in growing with these powerful tools. See, the members here are just SOOOO helpful. Thanks again.

crystal cove	17 Feb 2004
I, too, believe that there is not a large stretch between meanings that seem on the surface to be different. The more I study, the more ideas and meanings I get from each card......which is why as time goes on, I favor pip decks or at least minors where the images are somewhat abstract. Images are very powerful; something that advertisers know and use to their every advantage. As a designer, I can walk into a beautiful, finished interior that I created and literally be frozen by the beauty for a few minutes, unable to think of anything else. It's hard to convince one of a contrary meaning of something when the image is staring them square in the face. Once, I tried to do a reading for a fellow interior designer about a business she wanted to start. It was her lifelong ambition and something she sacrificed for many years to do. I used the RW deck and the 3 of swords came up. All in all, it was a very positive reading, but all she saw was that big 'ole red heart with the swords going through it. I don't think she heard half the reading, she was mesmerized by the image. It was shortly after that I started questioning the images on some decks. Good for you for searching for your own answers. Just because a thing is the most popular, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have limitations. When I searched for my own truth, I became a much better reader.

crystal cove	17 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mercenary30 I was doing just fine until someone pointed out that pips were read differently. Thanks again. I don't consider pips to be read differently, I think there are more options to them being that numerology and the suit are the original motivators to find meaning. In the RW deck, I find most of the card images to be plausible. However, some of the cards, the swords in particular, are extreme and/or negative interpretations to a number or suit...which is ok, it's an option. What I DON'T understand is why that interpretation is the one on the card out of the miriad of choices. It's kind of hard to convince a querent of the positive aspects of the 9 of swords when they're staring at that negative image. People tend to take things literally. Tarot is an "un" literal ;) art, I just think that the abstract works better. Of course, this is all JMO :)

The RWS vs PiPs vs Thoth vs ??? thread was originally posted on 17 Feb 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.