Tarot Ethics

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Feb 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lady Eclipse	03 Feb 2004
Hi everyone! A situation arose yesterday on a tarot reading board I frequent. Someone wanted inside information on some relatives but didn't say why they wanted it or give any indication that there was a problem of some kind. A male Pro on the board asked her if she had permission from the relatives to do a reading about them. He brought up some very good points about tarot ethics. He said her question was crossing the line of tarot ethics and doesn't think it's appropriate to abuse the tarot to spy on others without just cause. Most of the group disagreed, some in a not so polite manner (One even accused the Pro of trolling, which he wasn't). The general consensus from this group was that spying on someone else anytime you wanted to wasn't harming anyone so if you felt like doing it, go right ahead. Some said it was okay because they aren't professional readers so it's different for them to do it but a Pro shouldn't. My question for you as readers is, where do you draw the line in your readings? What questions are off limits? Thanks in advance for your time! :-) Joy to you, Maralee

gloria	03 Feb 2004
I agree with the guy on the board. You should have the querent's permission before reading for or about them! G.

mercenary30	03 Feb 2004
I would feel like I had done something wrong if I pried into someone else’s life like that. Like I was reading their diary or something. I am very careful to avoid anything of that nature unless I was involved in some fashion, or someone involved asked me.

contrascarpe	03 Feb 2004
This is a very interesting question. My first reaction was pretty similar to everyone else's here, but now I am on the fence. I believe you need to know the motivation behind the request. If someone is doing it to be nosy or vindictive, then definitely not. But there are times where maybe you want to know more about yourself and how that person fits into the scheme of things. In the initial example, I would not do the reading. I feel that there is some underlying problem there. However, something like this recently happened - I was in Salem with my fiancee before Halloween and she wanted her reading done (for some reason, I have a difficult time reading for loved ones). She really hit it off with the reader and got a nice concise reading. When they were done, the reader asked her if there was another question she had. My fiancee said that she was wondering how her daughter was (she is still in college and recently started seriously dating someone). The reader went ahead and did a reading for her daughter. I would have thought she would have done a reading for my fiancee to see the connection there, but she actually did a seperate reading for her daughter. To be honest, I did not see anything wrong with this. I guess I am going to have to wait and see how I would react should I be faced with this question. Oh, and after reading your post Maralee, it makes me appreciate the AT boards all the more. I hate it when you express an opinion and someone either flames you or calls you a troll. The Pro was stating his opinion and, right or wrong, they should have respected that. Dan

miss_apples	03 Feb 2004
I dont necessarily agree w/the pro. I dont think theres any harm in asking how someone is doing or trying to understand another persons motives if you feel they are acting strange. I think it actually helps with basic human understanding of another person. I suppose if the person asking the question is asking it for vindictive reasons that wouldnt be cool. But I know that if a situation happened to me where my lover of..lets say 4 years just up and left me and didnt give a reason...Id ask want to ask a reader why he did what he did!

mercenary30	03 Feb 2004
But in both of those situations, I would say that you are involved in some fashion. Your own kid, and your own relationship are your interests and that, to me, seems acceptable.

contrascarpe	03 Feb 2004
Agreed mercenary, which brings up the point of the original post, there is nothing indicated there IMO that sends up a red flag for ethics violations. I agree the words "inside information" have a negative connotation, however, nothing to signal that there is something sneaky. Maybe I am naive, but I cannot think of too many situations where a querant would broach something that I would consider an ethics problem (in the spirit of this discussion). Most questions tend to deal either with the seeker, or with someone close to them and how they interact. Here's an interesting question along these lines - someone comes to you to say they are married, and believe happily so. However, in the depth of his/her heart, they suspect their spouse is cheating on them and want you to do a reading for the spouse. Would you do this reading? Would you even think there is a question of ethics in play here? Personally, I may hesitate to do the reading because I would not be comfortable contributing to spousal disorder, but I would not do so because of an ethics issue. It would be the same situation should someone ask me when they were going to die. Definitely the question has given food for thought. And here I was believing my brain had shut down for the day, hehe. Dan

ros	03 Feb 2004
I'm sitting on the fence with this question also. I feel if it is just surface issues fine, the rest I'm iffy on it. Just my idea

mercenary30	03 Feb 2004
But if the reading is done on the realationship, the marriage, then I think the reading is involving the seeker. I would have a much harder time reading on just the husband, especially with that train of thought....... :(

Lee	03 Feb 2004
I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's unethical. But my personal preference is to do readings about subjects over which the client has control, i.e. what do I do with X situation, how do I best handle such-and-such a relationship, so that the reading opens up opportunities and insights for the client which they then can use to improve their lives, rather than simply telling them something about someone else. If I were to get that kind of question, I would probably turn the question around so that the emphasis is on the client's relationship with the person. -- Lee

Indigo Rose	03 Feb 2004
I see this subject as one of the grey areas of Tarot. Most readers will end up reading about others, besides the querent or themselves, at some point. However, I agree that there is usually a personal connection involved. Honestly, I think it depends on the spirit of the matter. What is trying to be understood? What will be done with the information once it is received? Then there is that whole debate over political/social/celebrity readings people do to understand what is going on with these mainstream issues that affect us, yet they are not "personal". I think it is wrong to use Tarot as a tool to spy on people and get into their lives for no good reason. I think it is also wrong to do so and use the information to harm them, or deceive them in some way. When choosing to do this type of reading the reasons should be clear; the disposition of the querent even clearer. We all are learning here and I appreciate this kind of topic being discussed. We as Tarot readers have a responsibility with how we conduct our readings, and the impact they have on those we read for and about. Blessings, Indigo Rose :)

MeeWah	03 Feb 2004
Each reader needs to make the personal decision of the boundaries if any. At times as a reader there is involuntary access to information. That is handled according to the particular moment, reading or querent. Whence approached as to whether a significant other is cheating, I tend to do as Lee does: *focus on the querent*. That is, what does the querent need to know pertaining to whatever the subject? In my view, any thing, & I mean *any thing that appears within the context of a reading is "fair game", whether via the cards or other means*. How one chooses to impart information or knowledge is key. A few repeat clients came for readings because they wanted to know if their significant others were cheating. Nearly all denied there were concerns because their others were good providers or generous, kind, etc. I focussed the readings on what did they need to know. The cards told the same story each time: the significant other was indeed, cheating. I saw them with other persons, including relationships originating from an online chatroom.

TemperanceAngel	03 Feb 2004
I don't know if I have off limits questions, but sometimes I get teenage girls wanting to know what their boyfriends are thinking and I just tell 'em *That's cheating* and laugh :laugh: XTAX

miss_apples	03 Feb 2004
I agree with Lee...I think in any way shape or form if someone asks a question regarding someone else...if you keep the reading revolving around the relationship between the querent and the other person you'll be just fine ethically. Arent most readings regarding some sort of relationship of some kind or another. If we could only do readings regarding just the querent...we might never get to do readings.

Umbrae	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Plagiarized from one of the old Process posts …Context – a reading should have context. Remember, this ain’t about me. It’s about them. A common ethical question is, if it is acceptable to do a reading upon a person who is not present and without their knowledge. It is usually viewed as wrong – but then folks will go right ahead and do a reading of a movie star or famous person (justifying that it is okay)… It is rash for anybody to run up to another and say, “Hey, I had a vision! You need to get your prostate checked!” However, it is something that tragically, many “new” readers and psychics do. When I see something, a medical, a vital family or personal issue, how I handle it, is of more importance than the knowledge itself . Reading for others carries an onus. When you are sitting with Person A, and reading about Person B, the outcome may be coloured by the bias of Person A – conclusions may be drawn – in error. But then, that’s just my opinion…

sagitarian	04 Feb 2004
I refuse to do any "legal" readings, such as "what advice will the cards give me to "win" this case" or things of the sort. One is asking to be sued by doing this. I refuse to ask "death" questions "when am i going to die" or "how am i going to die". I also refuse to do a reading on another person without their permission. For example..."can you do a reading on what is going on with my husband, and his intentions?" I tell people like that, "yes i can, but no i won't. That is violating his energy, and that karma of violation comes back on me. It's not a karma i'm willing to accept. I deeply apologize, but if you'd like to do a reading on how best to communicate to him about his intentions, I'll be happy to see what the cards say" or something to that effect, i'll manipulate it in a way that they can still get an answer, but the reading will apply to them, not the other person. I have done readings on other before without their permission, and afterwards, I get WICKED BAD headaches, I would hate to see what would happen karmically if I did more then just a "is this person going to be ok" type of reading. Instead, now, I ask "how best can I influence this person in their best interest without effecting their karma". That way, I recieve advice on how I can help, vs if their ok. Every once in a while, if i feel it's a really needed answer, I'll risk the karma, but it's rare, and unusual. Not too long ago, a good friend of mine came to me with question about her brother. I could tell she wanted to ask, but was shy too, so I asked her if she would like me to do a reading on him. He is a hard core crystal meth drug addict, who has "lost" it mentally. Paranoid to the max, and keeps a gun on him at all times, and has pulled this gun on many in his family, suspecting them in his paranoid universe of God only knows what! She was concerned about "what is going to happen" and "how is he now" type of questions. I did get a wicked headache from that, but i was willing to accept it on behalf of she really needed to know as she was in tears, this being her brother. There are exceptions, but it's up to the reader to determine where to draw that line at, since everyone's morals vary, there is no "set" line, only that of which each reader draws for their self.

Kiama	04 Feb 2004
I agree with Meewah (and others) when she says that this is up to each person to decide individually. Personally however, I would need to know the exact question before I said Yes or No. If, for instance, the querent had just met somebody and was concerned as to what their true intentions towards them were (eg- malicious or nice), I don't think I'd have a problem with that. In fact I think it's sensible to inquire about such things! Also if the querent wanted to know the feelings of their significant other, in relation to a relationship reading and in order that they can help their significant other, then I see no problem and in fact see this as a normal kind of reading: no human is an island, and we have others in our lives all the time. Why should they not also need to be included in Tarot readings? But, if the querent wanted to know about what their sister was up to for malicious reasons (eg- so they've got something on her and can use it against her at a later date...) then that for me is a definite No No. We find out about others through so many different means each day, and very few of them ask permission of that person beforehand. Others tell us about people, we watch them from afar, we note their body language. Tarot cards are just another method of doing this, and provided it is not done for malicious purposes, but for the good of the querent and the other person, I have no problem in doing a reading about it. But this is all a very personal thing, so I understand where everybody else is coming from too. :D Blessings, Kiama

ribbitcat	04 Feb 2004
I'm quite concerned that there seems to be so much gray here ... If the question is phrased about the *querent* than whatever information comes through is fine , the Universe is speaking :-) If someone comes to me asking if their spouse is cheating , then I say two things 1) if you're even asking , you have some idea already 2) that's what private detectives are for . If I then do a reading "What does X need to know about Y?" and the cards say there's cheating going on , I'll say so (tactfully , I hope) - the Universe has chosen to answer their original question . I would hate for someone to read for or on me without my permission - that's *my* life and you have to right to peek or pry *whatever your motives*without my say-so : and *that* is why 3rd party readings are unethical . No offence intended - I have strong views on ethics for readers ; check out Ethics Codes of the ATA , TABI , TarotCanada and individual websites - *all* reputable say no 3rd party readings . Kind regards , ribbitcat

Dark_angel	04 Feb 2004
I think that to an extent, every question about relationships of any kind, involves people who aren't sitting at the table. It is the tone of the question that I would be worried about. I'd do a reading for "My sister and I are having problems getting along; how can I change this?" but not "What's my sister doing?" - I'd talk to the querent and find out what was going on, and how we could address the issue in a more positive way. I try not to 'spy' on others; I hope I manage to be an ethical tarot reader. About the person who just wanted information, did anyone ask her for the background to it?

Lee	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ribbitcat If I then do a reading "What does X need to know about Y?" and the cards say there's cheating going on , I'll say so (tactfully , I hope) - the Universe has chosen to answer their original question . I would hate for someone to read for or on me without my permission - that's *my* life and you have to right to peek or pry *whatever your motives*without my say-so : and *that* is why 3rd party readings are unethical . No offence intended - I have strong views on ethics for readers ; check out Ethics Codes of the ATA , TABI , TarotCanada and individual websites - *all* reputable say no 3rd party readings . Hi ribbitcat, with all due respect, it seems to me that categorical distinctions are hard to make in these matters. For instance, you say "no 3rd party readings," but then you indicate you will do them if you phrase it as "What does X need to know about Y?". It seems to me that phrasing it that way doesn't entirely remove the third-party qualities of the question. You're still telling the client what's going on with a third party, and it seems like when one says "what does X need to know about Y" all that does is merely to pass on the responsibility to the Universe and thus avoid taking the responsibility oneself. Now, I'm not saying it is or isn't ethical, but I think a case-by-case approach is best, where you can judge the client's motivations and see whether you feel good or not about the question. Anyway, that's how I would handle it. :) -- Lee

Mojo	04 Feb 2004
I just did a reading on all of you, and each and every one of you should be greatly embarrassed by the things the cards told me about you.

mercenary30	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo I just did a reading on all of you, and each and every one of you should be greatly embarrassed by the things the cards told me about you. Wow, you must have had a lot of time on your hands yesterday....that is a lot of readings.

sagitarian	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo I just did a reading on all of you, and each and every one of you should be greatly embarrassed by the things the cards told me about you. REally? what did it say? I want to know! Don't you want feedback? hugs the mojo

miss_apples	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo I just did a reading on all of you, and each and every one of you should be greatly embarrassed by the things the cards told me about you. Me embarrassed? Thats highly unlikely....lol ;)

Kiama	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo I just did a reading on all of you, and each and every one of you should be greatly embarrassed by the things the cards told me about you. You needed cards for that? }) I should be greatly embarrassed by a great many things that aren't so secret. }) *Tongue in cheek* I love your humour Mojo, and welcome back. :D Ribbitcat: I don't believe I've met you on the forum before. Welcome! Anyway, I agree with Lee that it should be taken on a case by case basis, and to make the generalization of 'no 3rd party readings' is very difficult to do: as I said, no human is an island, and 3rd party people have a huuuge effect on our lives. I think the difference here though is the way the question is worded: as you said yourself, if somebody comes in asking if their husband is cheating, alot of people would feel such a reading to be unethical, and many would say 'don't ask me, ask him!'. But when it comes to questions such as: "I would like to know what my boyfriend wants from our relationship, so that I can improve it and help him' alot of Tarot readers would not say is unethical at all, and in fact is empowering and very ethical indeed. It all depends on the definition of 3rd party readings. And I've read the codes of ethics of many of the Tarot organizations, and disagree with a few things, mainly the reading for minors part. (Minors have just as much right to ask questions and gain guidance and advice as adults do.) The Codes of Ethics of many of the Tarot organizations are not the be-all and end-all of what is ethical and unethical I think: they are simply guidelines. Or they are rules you HAVE to abide by if you want to join them. Hence the reason why I have not yet joined any of them... Blessings, Kiama

inanna_tarot	04 Feb 2004
To be quite honest i dont really see the point in this thread. I've never met someone who uses tarot to be irresponsible in any way - and i doubt that being irresponisble with tarot would be an exception! I like the idea Tarot is a good judge of character, and if there was a not so nice person whos going to use the tarot to spy on others, the readings would only reflect their negativity. I've used tarot to be a "check" on people i dont contact as often as i should (but i do contact them! I'm not that mean!) , so that i know everything is okie doke, and if something not so fab appears, i'll be their friend in need, not ring them up and go OMG I did a reading for you and the 9 of Swords came up, WHATS WRONG! TELL ME lol. I dont see it as spying and i only ask hows so and so doing - and the cards give me a brief overview, i dont ask for details or gossip!!! Oh and *HUGZ for Rabbitcat* i've seen you around UKTarotTalk other TABI associated things, and its great to see a familiar name! Sezo x

ncefafn	04 Feb 2004
What if you reframe the question from, "Will he leave his wife and family for me" to "What does X need to know about her relationship with Y," and the cards you deal address themselves to the querent's question, not your attempt to PC it up? Kim

miss_apples	04 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn What if you reframe the question from, "Will he leave his wife and family for me" to "What does X need to know about her relationship with Y," and the cards you deal address themselves to the querent's question, not your attempt to PC it up? Kim I think thats a good idea. If a querent asks a question that you feel is a little unethical...just suggest to them another rewording of the question that will probably help them out more.

ol_crazy_Legs	05 Feb 2004
Spying with out a just cause I feel is wrong. I would never do a reading for someone with an intention like that. Also I never do readings to see if someone going to die. My friends Girlfreind wanted me to see when she was going to die and i refused. Then i got haggle for it from the boyfreinds older brother which also pracites tarot. The older Brother, Duane... Said "whats the big deal? When shes gunna die shes gunna die". I never lestin to him cuz i feel hes egotistical and small minded. Also he doesnt seem too serious about tarot. He just shuffles without any real motives and says "Heres your future!" Ive actually seen him make a quarent uneasy... which you should NEVER DO!!! There are boundry's i feel you should respect. And also remeber about that little thing we call Karma.

katrananda	05 Feb 2004
I get a few hairy questions that are an invasion of someone's privacy. I refuse to read. I ask the querent: "Would you want them knowing the same information about you?" I've never yet met who could look me in the eye and say 'yes'. More often, it's a forceful 'yes!' while they look at their nails, their feet, out the window, etc. I don't mind the general 'I'd like to know how my sister's doing'. I do mind the 'I'd like to know how my sister's love life is doing'.

jmd	05 Feb 2004
Lady Eclipse opens the thread with challenging remark, which, though it brings to the fore ethical questions, is actually at the same time muddied as we each read and ponder the predicament: 'Someone wanted inside information on some relatives but didn't say why they wanted it or give any indication that there was a problem of some kind.' What does 'inside information on some relatives' actually mean? If someone came to me for a reading with specifically that phrase, I would probably say that I honestly do not understand the question - and then proceed to the reading about the question as stated, allowing the cards to emerge. In a reading, I would presume that one has to not only trust that process, but also that what will come to the fore is pertinent and appropriate for the reading. Then, as mentioned by others in this thread, it would be the appropriate means by which I communicated the reading which would also be of import. As mentioned by many others here, I too hold that the ethical questions are subject to the individual reading at hand. That some individuals have decided to spell out their (or adopt someone else's) ready made own codes of ethics is, if it assists them, perhaps a useful step - the many reputable members here who hold differing views only highlights that the Codes of Ethics, written by some individuals with very specific views on the issue, and made mandatory for those seeking membership to the ATA (USA), TABI (Britain), TGA (Australia), and CTN (Canada), are certainly NOT universally accepted. Ipso facto, those organisations represent not the Ethical Tarot World, but at most their respective members. The International Tarot Society (which unfortunately ceased to exist last year), the Association for Tarot Studies, and a South African based local Tarot association (whose name I can't recall at this instant) do not have such prescribed 'Codes'. Not that long ago, neither did the TABI - why they decided to take that path I can only ponder, and have at times wondered if fear is part of the driving force behind the ever more common practice for codification (including its practice in many workplace situations). I am not a relativist, by the way, nor do I hold an emotivist view of ethics. On the contrary: I do think there are 'correct' ethical positions with respect to circumstances, and that we may (inevitably) each at times make errors - I suppose this has at times been called ethical individualism (not relative to the individual person, but specific to the individual circumstances at hand). [please note that the term 'ethical individualism' has also been commonly used to refer to ethics based on, essentially, an individual's whims - this is [i] not [/i] the form I refer to. The link above gives, half way down the page, an accessible synopsis to what is spelled out more fully in the book which lead me to read more of Steiner's works: Philosophy of Freedom ] Abiding by a universalised deontological ethical 'code' only removes each of us from what I see as the responsibilities we each have to take in the specific circumstances faced at each reading. [edited to correct various spelling errors]

ribbitcat	05 Feb 2004
[quote]Originally posted by jmd The International Tarot Society (which unfortunately ceased to exist last year), the Association for Tarot Studies, and a South African based local Tarot association (whose name I can't recall at this instant) do not have such prescribed 'Codes'. Not that long ago, neither did the TABI - why they decided to take that path I can only ponder, and have at times wondered if fear is part of the driving force behind the ever more common practice for codification (including its practice in many workplace situations). ** The Code of Ethics was one of the first things established by the founders of TABI ; which , OK , was recent - 2001 :-) That step was taken because it *does* provide guidelines , as you say , and some readers are more comfortable with that ; also , it lets the querents (and Readers) know that there is a standard , and what that standard is - if they want a reading from TABI or a TABI Endorsed reader . Certainly there is an element of disclaimerism(?) but it would be unrealistic not to expect that in these litigious times . But also to be borne in mind , is that there are some so-called readers with no ethics at all , let alone a codified statement . I think Inanna says that she has never come across a "bad" tarotist (sorry for paraphrasing , Inanna) - but I have . Like the one who told an elderly lady she would die in 6 months ; there are still too many of those type of "reader" about , and those are the ones who's tar brush gets slapped all over us . It seems to me the main reason for having a code of ethics , whether personal or from an organization , is to even more clearly delineate the differences between a "reader" like that , and responsible readers : how does one know if a reader *is* reponsible ? A code of ethics is a good start . As for under 18s - these are legally children , and for any potentially intrusive action , one would need the permission of the parent(s) . What next ? Predicting death and disaster ? pregnancy ? stock market tips ? regards , ribbitcat

Kiama	05 Feb 2004
ribbitcat: the rules you talk about, such as the under-18's seem to me to be more like guidelines to help the Tarot reader avoid getting into any sue-happy difficult situation. This, to me, is not a set of ethics but a set of rules to protect the reader. To me, there's a difference. I see the 3rd party readings as possibly, depending on the question asked, also being placed in the 'protecting the reader' category. Like you said, we live in a litigious society, and people are very sue-happy these days. We've got to protect ourselves. But to say that it is unethical to read for minors, for instance, is veeery different to saying it is best not to read for minors for protection reasons. Blessings, Kiama

ribbitcat	05 Feb 2004
Hi there Kiama - Your post makes me think - what's the difference between rules and ethics ? Are rules codified ethics , in effect ?? It is against the "rules" (as in law) to serve alcohol to someone who is under 18 ; however , it might be considered that even if it weren't already against the rules , it would still be unethical .... Hmm.....off to find a dictionary ...wonder what principles are ? Must be linked ....:-) regards , ribbitcat

Diana	05 Feb 2004
[quote]Originally posted by ribbitcat Quote: The death thingy in our society that is so terrified of dying is probably a little bit tricky. But what's wrong with predicting pregnancy? :confused: In fact, recently a young lady came to me for a reading (on another subject), and I strongly advised her to be VERY careful if she didn't want to fall pregnant and to make sure she takes her pill every day and even take double or triple precautions. I told her that the cards definitely speak, amongst other things, of pregnancy. But then I reminded her that the future is not set in stone..... What's wrong with giving stock market tips? If someone asks me for a tip, I will give it, according to what the cards tell me. Now, if they are foolish enough to trust me so completely, that is their problem, not mine. They come to me with a question. I answer it. They're paying for what they want to hear. And it is my duty to give them their money's worth.

Kiama	05 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ribbitcat It is against the "rules" (as in law) to serve alcohol to someone who is under 18 ; however , it might be considered that even if it weren't already against the rules , it would still be unethical .... But is this exactly analagous to reading for under-18's? I don't think so in all cases. Indeed, rules may be simply codified ethics, but if we examine some of the rules we live by, they aren't always, and alot of them are simply there either to make life easier or to protect us from others. Take, for instance, Child Protection laws. These are not just about the ethical protection of children. They are also for the protection of those who work with children. It is not, for instance, necessarily unethical to leave one woman in charge of a child in the MI room at school. But it is better for that woman if there is another adult there (according to the 'rules' of the Child Protection Act) because it covers her in case the child cries wolf, or the absent parent cries wolf. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between rules there for our own protection and safety, and rules there out of ethical consideration for our querents. And also that not all rules are ethics set down legally. Blessings, Kiama

miss_apples	05 Feb 2004
What about people under the age of 18 who actually read tarot...and I know there are quite a few here on the board. Should they only read for adults and not their friends?

MattDouglas	05 Feb 2004
I too agree that it depends on the motive of the querents. However, I would say go ahead and do the reading but that it is up to your ethical decision making process to decide what to reveal to the querent. What you see about a stranger you have no connection to probably won't phase them, since you may liekly run into that person on the street and not know it was who the querent was referring to. Also, if the querent's motives are in question, often the spread will indicate that about them and how it is adversely affecting the relationship with the person in question. Real life example: I was once asked by a friend to do a reading about her sister-in-law who lives in another country. This sis-in-law was a med students who had the oppurtunity ti take the boards in another months or two, but was nervous about them. When I did the reading I saw that this person was very disilliusioned about med-school. She seemed to have the abilities to pass if she took them, and may make that decsion but if so only because she had invested so much time in med-school, but probably would not be looking to continue her medical career, and wanted something else out of life. I told her it best to just be supportive of whatever decision she made, and that her S-I-L would figure it out for herself. While her S-I-L loved the family she was going through a phase of finding her own way, and needed her privacy and individuation. The querent said I was dead-on about her being disillusioned. Well, a couple months later, this same querent had told me that her S-I-L had decided not to take the boards on that go round, but had the oppurtunity to take them in another few months (if she signed up and all that in time). She asked what if I could do a reading to let her know how to get her S-I-L to take the board. Whereupon I informed her that while I would be happy to do a reading on her sister's general well-being and the querents relationship with her, I would not use tarot to look for information on how she could manipulate others. She said she'd take the reaidng as I would do it, and sure enough, it showed someone really looking to find herself and she was separate from family and culture. I informed the querent of this and also let her know that the more pressure was put on her from family, the more she'd rebel (albeit passive-aggressively), and that any more pushing would definitely result in her not taking the boards, and likely a heavy withdrawld from the family. To which the querent replied," Oh but if I leave her alone she will take them?" To which I remarked that it was still unlikely, but that it would be a decision her S-I-L neede to make on her own. Fortunately, I her asked permission to have her husband (her S-I-L's brother) be made aware of her inquires, and she agreed to it. Her husband, I already knew, had made a big career change once in his life already. He was able to understand his sister's position quite empathically, and was able to help assure his wife that things would work out somehow or other. Things had worked out well for him after all. Love, understanding, and compassion, Matt

jmd	06 Feb 2004
Thanks for the correction, ribbitcat. I have undoubtedly confused TABI's more recent certification process and its obviously from-the-start inclusion of a written 'code of ethics'. When one personally disapproves with each of these, they may get mixed in one's memory, as they have in mine... so my apologies. With regards to 'What next ? Predicting death and disaster ? pregnancy ? stock market tips ?' I would claim that each of these have a place, given, again, and has as been mentioned now by a various people, the specific individual circumstances at hand. For example, doing a reading to see the likelihood of death, and when, of a person who has just suffered a massive CVA (stroke), for a relative which asks this question in a context deemed acceptable, is, in my personal view, acceptable. Here, two aspects already break the established 'code'. Another example with regards to major disasters, my sister, prior to moving to another US state, lived in Los Angeles in California. Just prior to a major earthquake around ten years ago, I do not see why I should not have done a reading and advised her of impending danger had I seen it (she in fact suffered from some back injury as a result of some of the freeway crashes - from which she has recovered). Pregnancy is certainly not an issue I see a problem with, but of course, it does depend on the specific circumstances. As to stock market tips, I only wished I had taken my own advice with regards to stock market movement when it came to my superannuation fund (for my funds, I did not even think of it as 'stock market' - I would otherwise not have lost as much!). Again, of course, ethical considerations I personally consider ARE very important - but that is a different question to whether these are best codified... As an interesting aside, by the way, I cannot imagine any circumstances in which I would personally feel comfortable reading for someone under-18. But I wouldn't dream of wanting to codify this and imposing the same on others!

TemperanceAngel	06 Feb 2004
I quite often have clients come to me that have had one or miscarriages or trouble conceiving. It is very traumatic for these people and I look into this for them, via the cards. Sometimes it helps to get some spiritual inspiration, instead of medical jargon. I have found the cards to be very helpful and insightful in this situation. Death is a part of life :) I have never had anyone ask me about the stock market, but have about the Melbourne Cup (horse race), it was one of the most fascinating readings I did last year ;) No-one has ever asked me for the lotto numbers.... People do ask me how many children they will have? What age will they get married? Will their business be properous? Is that the same as the stock market question? People ask me about their partners, children, parents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters and grandparents. All that and more in the day of a Tarot Consultant :) XTAX

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by gloria I agree with the guy on the board. You should have the querent's permission before reading for or about them! G. Hi gloria, Thank you for responding. I feel the same way. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mercenary30 I would feel like I had done something wrong if I pried into someone else’s life like that. Like I was reading their diary or something. I am very careful to avoid anything of that nature unless I was involved in some fashion, or someone involved asked me. Hi mercenary30, Thanks for responding. I share your sentiments. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 Agreed mercenary, which brings up the point of the original post, there is nothing indicated there IMO that sends up a red flag for ethics violations. I agree the words "inside information" have a negative connotation, however, nothing to signal that there is something sneaky. Maybe I am naive, but I cannot think of too many situations where a querant would broach something that I would consider an ethics problem (in the spirit of this discussion). Most questions tend to deal either with the seeker, or with someone close to them and how they interact. Here's an interesting question along these lines - someone comes to you to say they are married, and believe happily so. However, in the depth of his/her heart, they suspect their spouse is cheating on them and want you to do a reading for the spouse. Would you do this reading? Would you even think there is a question of ethics in play here? Personally, I may hesitate to do the reading because I would not be comfortable contributing to spousal disorder, but I would not do so because of an ethics issue. It would be the same situation should someone ask me when they were going to die. Definitely the question has given food for thought. And here I was believing my brain had shut down for the day, hehe. Dan Hi Dan, Thanks for responding. I can see what you mean. When I read professionally, most people wanted to know about things pertaining to themselves. However, there were some who were nosey or just being vindictive and wanted me to poke my nose into someone else's business which didn't concern the client. Naturally, I refused since I'm not about to help someone get info to use against someone else. As for your cheating question, in my experience, when someone asks such a question, there's usually something to it. It will show up in the general reading without my having to ask specifically about the cheating partner. I won't give a client any details about the cheater's partner though. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by miss_apples I dont necessarily agree w/the pro. I dont think theres any harm in asking how someone is doing or trying to understand another persons motives if you feel they are acting strange. I think it actually helps with basic human understanding of another person. I suppose if the person asking the question is asking it for vindictive reasons that wouldnt be cool. But I know that if a situation happened to me where my lover of..lets say 4 years just up and left me and didnt give a reason...Id ask want to ask a reader why he did what he did! Hi miss_apples, Thanks for responding. From what I could tell there had to be some just cause or reason for the Pro to do such a reading. I would think suspicious behavior would fall under this definition. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros I'm sitting on the fence with this question also. I feel if it is just surface issues fine, the rest I'm iffy on it. Just my idea Hi ros, Thanks for responding. I understand what you're saying, it can be a tough call IMO. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's unethical. But my personal preference is to do readings about subjects over which the client has control, i.e. what do I do with X situation, how do I best handle such-and-such a relationship, so that the reading opens up opportunities and insights for the client which they then can use to improve their lives, rather than simply telling them something about someone else. If I were to get that kind of question, I would probably turn the question around so that the emphasis is on the client's relationship with the person. -- Lee Hi Lee, Thanks for responding. I like your method of reading. I also believe it's much more productive and helpful to the client to tell them how they can improve their lives rather than talking to them about others. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Indigo Rose I see this subject as one of the grey areas of Tarot. Most readers will end up reading about others, besides the querent or themselves, at some point. However, I agree that there is usually a personal connection involved. Honestly, I think it depends on the spirit of the matter. What is trying to be understood? What will be done with the information once it is received? Then there is that whole debate over political/social/celebrity readings people do to understand what is going on with these mainstream issues that affect us, yet they are not "personal". I think it is wrong to use Tarot as a tool to spy on people and get into their lives for no good reason. I think it is also wrong to do so and use the information to harm them, or deceive them in some way. When choosing to do this type of reading the reasons should be clear; the disposition of the querent even clearer. We all are learning here and I appreciate this kind of topic being discussed. We as Tarot readers have a responsibility with how we conduct our readings, and the impact they have on those we read for and about. Blessings, Indigo Rose :) Hi Indigo Rose, Thanks for responding. I see what you mean. In most readings the influence of others will show up and then we have to determine what should be said because it's important to the client and what things are none of the client's concern. I tend to keep quiet about 75% of the things that come up in readings since I tend to see a lot more than the client needs to know for various reasons. I also believe using the tarot just to spy on others is wrong. I agree, it is a responsibility that must be taken seriously. Joy to you, Maralee

Kiama	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lady Eclipse Hi Lee, Thanks for responding. I like your method of reading. I also believe it's much more productive and helpful to the client to tell them how they can improve their lives rather than talking to them about others. Joy to you, Maralee Surely if they know how others are feeling, or what others need from them, they can help themselves and others, and in such cases a reading about a 3rd party would be beneficial? A question such as "What does so-and-so feel at the moment? What do they need from me?" Kiama

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah Each reader needs to make the personal decision of the boundaries if any. At times as a reader there is involuntary access to information. That is handled according to the particular moment, reading or querent. Whence approached as to whether a significant other is cheating, I tend to do as Lee does: *focus on the querent*. That is, what does the querent need to know pertaining to whatever the subject? In my view, any thing, & I mean *any thing that appears within the context of a reading is "fair game", whether via the cards or other means*. How one chooses to impart information or knowledge is key. A few repeat clients came for readings because they wanted to know if their significant others were cheating. Nearly all denied there were concerns because their others were good providers or generous, kind, etc. I focussed the readings on what did they need to know. The cards told the same story each time: the significant other was indeed, cheating. I saw them with other persons, including relationships originating from an online chatroom. Hi MeeWah, Thanks for responding. I agree that the boundaries, whatever they may be, should be determined by each individual. For me, I prefer not to reveal anything that I feel is none of the client's business. That's why I choose to remain silent about many of the things that come up in a reading. Those cheating spouses sure do have a way of showing up in readings don't they? Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel I don't know if I have off limits questions, but sometimes I get teenage girls wanting to know what their boyfriends are thinking and I just tell 'em *That's cheating* and laugh :laugh: XTAX Hi TemperanceAngel, Thanks for responding. LOL! I love your response! :-) Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Reading for others carries an onus. When you are sitting with Person A, and reading about Person B, the outcome may be coloured by the bias of Person A – conclusions may be drawn – in error. But then, that’s just my opinion… Hi Umbrae, Thanks for responding. I see what you mean. It would be very easy to have this happen if one is not careful. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by sagitarian I refuse to do any "legal" readings, such as "what advice will the cards give me to "win" this case" or things of the sort. One is asking to be sued by doing this. I refuse to ask "death" questions "when am i going to die" or "how am i going to die". I also refuse to do a reading on another person without their permission. For example..."can you do a reading on what is going on with my husband, and his intentions?" I tell people like that, "yes i can, but no i won't. That is violating his energy, and that karma of violation comes back on me. It's not a karma i'm willing to accept. I deeply apologize, but if you'd like to do a reading on how best to communicate to him about his intentions, I'll be happy to see what the cards say" or something to that effect, i'll manipulate it in a way that they can still get an answer, but the reading will apply to them, not the other person. I have done readings on other before without their permission, and afterwards, I get WICKED BAD headaches, I would hate to see what would happen karmically if I did more then just a "is this person going to be ok" type of reading. Instead, now, I ask "how best can I influence this person in their best interest without effecting their karma". That way, I recieve advice on how I can help, vs if their ok. Every once in a while, if i feel it's a really needed answer, I'll risk the karma, but it's rare, and unusual. Not too long ago, a good friend of mine came to me with question about her brother. I could tell she wanted to ask, but was shy too, so I asked her if she would like me to do a reading on him. He is a hard core crystal meth drug addict, who has "lost" it mentally. Paranoid to the max, and keeps a gun on him at all times, and has pulled this gun on many in his family, suspecting them in his paranoid universe of God only knows what! She was concerned about "what is going to happen" and "how is he now" type of questions. I did get a wicked headache from that, but i was willing to accept it on behalf of she really needed to know as she was in tears, this being her brother. There are exceptions, but it's up to the reader to determine where to draw that line at, since everyone's morals vary, there is no "set" line, only that of which each reader draws for their self. Hi Sagitarian, Thanks for responding. Thank you also for taking the time to include your personal guidelines as I feel it will be very helpful to others in making their decision on where they should draw the line in their readings. Personally, I would have done the brother reading because he's a dangerous individual and in a case like that, the client should know in case they are put in any danger by the actions of such a person. But, that's just me. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I agree with Meewah (and others) when she says that this is up to each person to decide individually. Personally however, I would need to know the exact question before I said Yes or No. If, for instance, the querent had just met somebody and was concerned as to what their true intentions towards them were (eg- malicious or nice), I don't think I'd have a problem with that. In fact I think it's sensible to inquire about such things! Also if the querent wanted to know the feelings of their significant other, in relation to a relationship reading and in order that they can help their significant other, then I see no problem and in fact see this as a normal kind of reading: no human is an island, and we have others in our lives all the time. Why should they not also need to be included in Tarot readings? But, if the querent wanted to know about what their sister was up to for malicious reasons (eg- so they've got something on her and can use it against her at a later date...) then that for me is a definite No No. We find out about others through so many different means each day, and very few of them ask permission of that person beforehand. Others tell us about people, we watch them from afar, we note their body language. Tarot cards are just another method of doing this, and provided it is not done for malicious purposes, but for the good of the querent and the other person, I have no problem in doing a reading about it. But this is all a very personal thing, so I understand where everybody else is coming from too. :D Blessings, Kiama Hi Kiama, Thanks for responding. I agree that it's a judgement call for each reader. Personally, I'd have to know the intent as well. In your first situation, I wouldn't do the reading unless there was something suspicious about the new person that the client is concerned about. I'd much rather focus on the client and what, if anything, that could happen with the new person will come up in a general reading. The second reading is an off-limits one for me as well. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ribbitcat I'm quite concerned that there seems to be so much gray here ... If the question is phrased about the *querent* than whatever information comes through is fine , the Universe is speaking :-) If someone comes to me asking if their spouse is cheating , then I say two things 1) if you're even asking , you have some idea already 2) that's what private detectives are for . If I then do a reading "What does X need to know about Y?" and the cards say there's cheating going on , I'll say so (tactfully , I hope) - the Universe has chosen to answer their original question . I would hate for someone to read for or on me without my permission - that's *my* life and you have to right to peek or pry *whatever your motives*without my say-so : and *that* is why 3rd party readings are unethical . No offence intended - I have strong views on ethics for readers ; check out Ethics Codes of the ATA , TABI , TarotCanada and individual websites - *all* reputable say no 3rd party readings . Kind regards , ribbitcat Hi ribbitcat, Thank you for responding. I see what you mean. I like your answers to #1. & #2. I'd rather have the info come through in a general reading as intended by the Universe. I prefer to not ask about those not present unless there's a genuine cause for concern, like someone they just met having stalker or other dangerous potential and already exhibiting signs of such. In most of these cases though, the individual in question will show up in a general reading if there really is clear and present danger. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Dark_angel I think that to an extent, every question about relationships of any kind, involves people who aren't sitting at the table. It is the tone of the question that I would be worried about. I'd do a reading for "My sister and I are having problems getting along; how can I change this?" but not "What's my sister doing?" - I'd talk to the querent and find out what was going on, and how we could address the issue in a more positive way. I try not to 'spy' on others; I hope I manage to be an ethical tarot reader. About the person who just wanted information, did anyone ask her for the background to it? Hi Dark_angel, Thanks for responding. I understand what you're saying. The person was asked by the Pro after she'd posted the question. He talked about ethics in his post which is what sent the board into a minor uproar. Several members had already posted replys to her question and didn't want to know the details or her intent behind asking the question. Much later, she gave details, (which sounded fishy to me personally) but she needs to talk to a lawyer, not a reader and she was pointed in that direction. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo I just did a reading on all of you, and each and every one of you should be greatly embarrassed by the things the cards told me about you. Hi Mojo, ROTFLMAO! That was too funny! Thanks for your humor. :-) Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by inanna_tarot To be quite honest i dont really see the point in this thread. I've never met someone who uses tarot to be irresponsible in any way - and i doubt that being irresponisble with tarot would be an exception! I like the idea Tarot is a good judge of character, and if there was a not so nice person whos going to use the tarot to spy on others, the readings would only reflect their negativity. I've used tarot to be a "check" on people i dont contact as often as i should (but i do contact them! I'm not that mean!) , so that i know everything is okie doke, and if something not so fab appears, i'll be their friend in need, not ring them up and go OMG I did a reading for you and the 9 of Swords came up, WHATS WRONG! TELL ME lol. I dont see it as spying and i only ask hows so and so doing - and the cards give me a brief overview, i dont ask for details or gossip!!! Oh and *HUGZ for Rabbitcat* i've seen you around UKTarotTalk other TABI associated things, and its great to see a familiar name! Sezo x Hi inanna_tarot, Thanks for your response. Actually I have met a few who used it in ways that are very irresponsible. One deliberately misinterpreted all her love/romantic relationship readings so they would turn out negative, like saying a partner was cheating when they weren't, or that the partner was using the client when they weren't. She even told me I wasn't getting married to my husband when I knew I was. She did this because she was jealous of others romantic happiness and very bitter about how her romantic life had turned out. Another used it to spy on other readers and use what she found against them to take away their clients. These are just 2 examples and I know of more. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn What if you reframe the question from, "Will he leave his wife and family for me" to "What does X need to know about her relationship with Y," and the cards you deal address themselves to the querent's question, not your attempt to PC it up? Kim Hi Kim, Thanks for responding. Reframing the question like that is much more appropriate, IMO. If he is going to leave her, it will show up in the cards and then you can respond as you see fit. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ol_crazy_Legs Spying with out a just cause I feel is wrong. I would never do a reading for someone with an intention like that. Also I never do readings to see if someone going to die. My friends Girlfreind wanted me to see when she was going to die and i refused. Then i got haggle for it from the boyfreinds older brother which also pracites tarot. The older Brother, Duane... Said "whats the big deal? When shes gunna die shes gunna die". I never lestin to him cuz i feel hes egotistical and small minded. Also he doesnt seem too serious about tarot. He just shuffles without any real motives and says "Heres your future!" Ive actually seen him make a quarent uneasy... which you should NEVER DO!!! There are boundry's i feel you should respect. And also remeber about that little thing we call Karma. Hi ol_crazy_Legs, Thanks for responding. I agree, IMO, it is wrong to spy like that. I don't care for the death readings either. If it comes up in a reading, I try to encourage the person to spend time with friends and loved ones rather than talk of their passing. I know I wouldn't want anyone looking into my private affairs without my permission and I don't encourage anyone I've ever taught to misuse the tarot to spy on others. I firmly believe in Karma and I've seen what happens to those who disrespect the tarot. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by katrananda I get a few hairy questions that are an invasion of someone's privacy. I refuse to read. I ask the querent: "Would you want them knowing the same information about you?" I've never yet met who could look me in the eye and say 'yes'. More often, it's a forceful 'yes!' while they look at their nails, their feet, out the window, etc. I don't mind the general 'I'd like to know how my sister's doing'. I do mind the 'I'd like to know how my sister's love life is doing'. Hi katrananda, Thanks for responding. I know what you mean. I've yet to get even one who could look me in the eye and answer "Yes." Even if they could, I still wouldn't do the reading. :-) Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
[quote]Originally posted by jmd Lady Eclipse opens the thread with challenging remark, which, though it brings to the fore ethical questions, is actually at the same time muddied as we each read and ponder the predicament: 'Someone wanted inside information on some relatives but didn't say why they wanted it or give any indication that there was a problem of some kind.' What does 'inside information on some relatives' actually mean? If someone came to me for a reading with specifically that phrase, I would probably say that I honestly do not understand the question - and then proceed to the reading about the question as stated, allowing the cards to emerge. In a reading, I would presume that one has to not only trust that process, but also that what will come to the fore is pertinent and appropriate for the reading. Then, as mentioned by others in this thread, it would be the appropriate means by which I communicated the reading which would also be of import. As mentioned by many others here, I too hold that the ethical questions are subject to the individual reading at hand. That some individuals have decided to spell out their (or adopt someone else's) ready made own codes of ethics is, if it assists them, perhaps a useful step - the many reputable members here who hold differing views only highlights that the Codes of Ethics, written by some individuals with very specific views on the issue, and made mandatory for those seeking membership to the ATA (USA), TABI (Britain), TGA (Australia), and CTN (Canada), are certainly NOT universally accepted. Ipso facto , those organisations represent not the Ethical Tarot World, but at most their respective members. The International Tarot Society (which unfortunately ceased to exist last year), the Association for Tarot Studies, and a South African based local Tarot association (whose name I can't recall at this instant) do not have such prescribed 'Codes'. Not that long ago, neither did the TABI - why they decided to take that path I can only ponder, and have at times wondered if fear is part of the driving force behind the ever more common practice for codification (including its practice in many workplace situations). I am not a relativist, by the way, nor do I hold an emotivist view of ethics. On the contrary: I do think there are ' correct ' ethical positions with respect to circumstances, and that we may (inevitably) each at times make errors - I suppose this has at times been called ethical individualism (not relative to the individual person , but specific to the individual circumstances at hand). [please note that the term 'ethical individualism' has also been commonly used to refer to ethics based on, essentially, an individual's whims - this is [i] not [/i] the form I refer to. The link above gives, half way down the page, an accessible synopsis to what is spelled out more fully in the book which lead me to read more of Steiner's works: Philosophy of Freedom ] Abiding by a universalised deontological ethical 'code' only removes each of us from what I see as the responsibilities we each have to take in the specific circumstances faced at each reading. [edited to correct various spelling errors] [/QUOTE Hi jmd, Thank you for responding and for giving the links. I appreciate you taking the time to post so much information. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana The death thingy in our society that is so terrified of dying is probably a little bit tricky. But what's wrong with predicting pregnancy? :confused: In fact, recently a young lady came to me for a reading (on another subject), and I strongly advised her to be VERY careful if she didn't want to fall pregnant and to make sure she takes her pill every day and even take double or triple precautions. I told her that the cards definitely speak, amongst other things, of pregnancy. But then I reminded her that the future is not set in stone..... What's wrong with giving stock market tips? If someone asks me for a tip, I will give it, according to what the cards tell me. Now, if they are foolish enough to trust me so completely, that is their problem, not mine. They come to me with a question. I answer it. They're paying for what they want to hear. And it is my duty to give them their money's worth. Hi Diana, Thank you for responding. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the pregnancy response since it was pertaining to the client, herself. I don't give stock market tips since the only stock I have any insight into is my own investments. :-) Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MattDouglas I too agree that it depends on the motive of the querents. However, I would say go ahead and do the reading but that it is up to your ethical decision making process to decide what to reveal to the querent. What you see about a stranger you have no connection to probably won't phase them, since you may liekly run into that person on the street and not know it was who the querent was referring to. Also, if the querent's motives are in question, often the spread will indicate that about them and how it is adversely affecting the relationship with the person in question. Real life example: I was once asked by a friend to do a reading about her sister-in-law who lives in another country. This sis-in-law was a med students who had the oppurtunity ti take the boards in another months or two, but was nervous about them. When I did the reading I saw that this person was very disilliusioned about med-school. She seemed to have the abilities to pass if she took them, and may make that decsion but if so only because she had invested so much time in med-school, but probably would not be looking to continue her medical career, and wanted something else out of life. I told her it best to just be supportive of whatever decision she made, and that her S-I-L would figure it out for herself. While her S-I-L loved the family she was going through a phase of finding her own way, and needed her privacy and individuation. The querent said I was dead-on about her being disillusioned. Well, a couple months later, this same querent had told me that her S-I-L had decided not to take the boards on that go round, but had the oppurtunity to take them in another few months (if she signed up and all that in time). She asked what if I could do a reading to let her know how to get her S-I-L to take the board. Whereupon I informed her that while I would be happy to do a reading on her sister's general well-being and the querents relationship with her, I would not use tarot to look for information on how she could manipulate others. She said she'd take the reaidng as I would do it, and sure enough, it showed someone really looking to find herself and she was separate from family and culture. I informed the querent of this and also let her know that the more pressure was put on her from family, the more she'd rebel (albeit passive-aggressively), and that any more pushing would definitely result in her not taking the boards, and likely a heavy withdrawld from the family. To which the querent replied," Oh but if I leave her alone she will take them?" To which I remarked that it was still unlikely, but that it would be a decision her S-I-L neede to make on her own. Fortunately, I her asked permission to have her husband (her S-I-L's brother) be made aware of her inquires, and she agreed to it. Her husband, I already knew, had made a big career change once in his life already. He was able to understand his sister's position quite empathically, and was able to help assure his wife that things would work out somehow or other. Things had worked out well for him after all. Love, understanding, and compassion, Matt Hi Matt, Thank you for responding and for sharing your experiences. Personally, I don't think I would've done the reading about the SIL without her permision first. For me to do one like that, more just cause would need to be established, but that's my opinion on what's right for me. Joy to you, Maralee

Lady Eclipse	06 Feb 2004
Thanks to everyone who took the time to participate in this discussion! It was very interesting to learn of each person's take on the original situation as well as the different situations that were brought up during the discussion. What a great group of people you are! :-) Joy to you, Maralee

The Tarot Ethics thread was originally posted on 03 Feb 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.