Are all decks in numerical order when new?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Deneb	25 Mar 2004
Perhaps a stupid question, but I want to know, if all new tarot decks are in numerical order starting from the Fool, because when I unwrapped my brand new Avalon tarot, the cards were totally shuffled, and the Death-card was on the top. This was the first deck I've seen not being in numerical order (but I haven't seem them so many...), perhaps this is common to some publishers?

Astraea	25 Mar 2004
Hi, Deneb. Lo Scarabeo decks are frequently disordered when they are shrink-wrapped, just as you describe.

Jewel-ry	25 Mar 2004
Hi there Deneb, I have several decks which have been randomly packed. I always order them myself just to make sure they are all there. J :)

Emily	25 Mar 2004
Hi Deneb, I've had a couple of Lo Scarabeo decks come all mixed up and out of order too - but my main one was the Osho Zen. These cards were all over the place - but like Jewel-ry the first thing I do with a new deck is to re-order them, I don't like it when I can't unwrap a new deck and spread them out in suit order just to look through them.

Macavity	25 Mar 2004
One of the stranger ones... I can't remember which deck it was now... was where the deck was ostensibly in order, except the the Magus was the first card. After a quick panic search, I finally located the Fool at some arbitrary postion later in the deck... obviously it's all true about this tendancy to wander? :D Macavity

Phoenyx*	25 Mar 2004
*laughs* Good thing it wasn't the chariot.

jmd	25 Mar 2004
It could be that the packaging order reflects the fold-&-cutting process, generating what appears to be a random order. With decks which are ordered, to have the 'Magician' first in the Major Arcana is also normal, for in two of the three common orderings, it is placed as such, with the un-numbered Fool occupying either the final (ie, after XXI) or penultimate (ie, between cards XX & XXI) position.

Imagemaker	25 Mar 2004
Interesting--every deck I've ever bought has been in correct order--and I own about (ack!) 25 now. I realize that's miniscule compared to some here, but that's a fairly large sample of in-order decks, isn't it?

HudsonGray	25 Mar 2004
I wonder if it's just the Lo Scarabeo decks then? Everything I've gotten have been in the correct order, except one used deck from ebay (though all the cards were there when I did lay them out).

Astraea	25 Mar 2004
The only decks I've ever bought that were out-of-order as purchased were from Lo Scarabeo.

BlueLotus	25 Mar 2004
Most of my cards arrived in order. I really can't remember any that were randomly packed that I had to re-arrange them. I usually took them out of the neat package and counted them. There may have been one or two cards, at most, that were misplaced . Do make sure that the cards are wrapped neatly in the thin plastic covering inside the box, because my guess is that when they are at random, they may have been tampered with. Just my humble opinion.

CreativeFire	25 Mar 2004
I am another one who has only ever received "in order" decks (I only have about 11). I always check that all the cards are then as soon as I open then and luckily I have never been missing any cards either (touch wood) ;) CreativeFire

Osher	26 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity One of the stranger ones... I can't remember which deck it was now... was where the deck was ostensibly in order, except the the Magus was the first card. After a quick panic search, I finally located the Fool at some arbitrary postion later in the deck... obviously it's all true about this tendancy to wander? :D Macavity I've had the same, and the same panic too! I wonder which company and/or deck it was? With my new Tarot of the Cat People, all in order, except the Emporer, who was first. Curious that...

Moonbow*	26 Mar 2004
Yep, Lo Scarabeo for me too! - but not 'all' LS decks though

smokey	26 Mar 2004
Good question. I've been lucky so far as all my decks have been in order up to now. I've yet to deal with Lo Scarabeo, but I'm sure I will eventually.

northsea	26 Mar 2004
The Ibis deck from AG Muller was received with no order, and Empress on top (before the advertising cards).

Cocobird55	27 Mar 2004
I've gotten a few decks that were not in order. I usually begin by putting them in order, just to make sure they are all there. I also bought a deck that had the cards ordered differently. The minors were ordered so that all the aces were together, followed by all the twos, threes, etc. The court cards were in a separate area. Sue

Rusty Neon	27 Mar 2004
I had a number of decks that came non-numerically ordered. But the one I remember most was the Viéville (photoreproduction published by Héron). The francophone clerk at the store was amazed at how quickly I could tell the various pips apart and order them. (I was verifying that all the cards were there.) During that time, she was explaining to me that the deck "cannot" be used to play the card game of tarot. (There was even a store sticker on the deck warning it can't be used to play tarot. I guess there was some confusion because the deck box indicates that 17th century rules are contained in the box.)

Savoyali	27 Mar 2004
None of my Lo Scarabeo decks so far were jumbled, all neatly ordered. Maybe the next one(s) :D The only deck so far that wasn't ordered was the Osho Zen, and I actually found that helpful because it forced me to do the ordering myself on my first ever non-traditionally labelled deck of all things :) Gave me exactly the approach I needed for this one. Since reading Tarot for Dummies, though, I take note of what order the suits are in and always wonder what, if any, thought was behind that order. No answers so far...not expecting to get any, really :P

Majecot	27 Mar 2004
I haven't yet had a new deck that wasn't in numerical order.

Emily	28 Mar 2004
Hi Savoyali, That was experience too with the Osho Zen, it must have took me at least a couple of hours to get it in order but by the end of it I felt like I knew the cards lol

Savoyali	28 Mar 2004
*lol* Emily, exactly! Up to that point I had always kind of shaken my head when tarot books I read said "in order to get to know the deck, try ordering the cards. Do you see how there are different suits?" Um, yah, well, they are ordered by suit already...kind of defeats the purpose, no? Then I open the Osho Zen et voilá, suddenly it makes sense :D

Emily	28 Mar 2004
Hi Savoyali, At one stage I can remember having all these cards spread out over my living room carpet, book in hand - 'this one goes there, no it goes there, then this one' - then I got carried away with the beauty of the cards and it took me forever. :)

Marion	28 Mar 2004
I too have received new shrink-wrapped decks in completely random order.

MeeWah	28 Mar 2004
New decks I have acquired have differed in their ordering by suits & by courts or have been random. In the latter, I always check that the deck is intact by putting the cards in an order.

crystal cove	29 Mar 2004
I've had several that haven't arrived in order. As a matter of fact, I just received one last week, it was the Art of Tarot. Of course, I got confused and ordered that one instead of the Tarot Set, by the same author, but that's another story. ;)

The Are all decks in numerical order when new? thread was originally posted on 25 Mar 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.