Are Tarot and Tarot Cards The Same Thing....

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

TemperanceAngel	16 Mar 2004
QUOTE: My understanding is that Tarot is Tarot cards. Another way round to put it is 'What are the cards, if they're not Tarot?' You could say they are a means of using Tarot but that leads me to think that Tarot could be done without cards. Can it? These are my thoughts, and I would like to know what you and any others consider Tarot and Tarot cards? A very thought provoking and interesting statement. I wondered what peoples thoughts are on this topic? XTAX

Diana	16 Mar 2004
Can one tend to a garden without tools?

TemperanceAngel	16 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Can one tend to a garden without tools? I think Diana has opened this thread with a great analogy. This is an important discussion, everyones thoughts, experiences are greatly received, come on don't be shy! And don't be afraid of Diana, either, because she is a very caring and passionate individual, oh and extremely helpful too if you ever pm her :) If we didn't have the cards, then would we have the Tarot? And if we read without the cards, are we reading Tarot? Or something else? Like a persons energy? Or are using our clairvoyant, intuitive or psychic skills? Are the cards bits of cardboard and nothing else? If the cards are only bits of cardboard, why are they so important? Is Tarot more than just bits of cardboard? Aaahhh, so many questions....if you get to answer one of these questions, then I will be a very happy woman :D XTAX Edited for typos, they annoy me (mime that is!)

CreativeFire	16 Mar 2004
Some very thought provoking questions, TemperanceAngel :) Will try to give my thoughts / answers to one or two LOL Tarot Cards - I do believe they are only bits of cardboard - albeit sometimes very beautiful and special bits of cardboard :). I think I see them as "signs or symbols" that make us think or intuitively see certain things in our lives and in the lives of others, that we may not have been consciously aware of - or taken the time out to see in every day life. I think Tarot has become / or is becoming more and more useful in todays society as the world itself is progressing at such a fast rate that we all try and do so many things - work, family, love, interests etc that we don't often have or take the time to see the "signs" around us. Tarot helps to "see", acknowledge and work to understand ourselves and others better and therefore grow / reclaim our instinctual and intuitive self. OK - starting to ramble here, I know what I mean - hope that it sort of makes sense to others :D CreativeFire

Rusty Neon	16 Mar 2004
In the strictist sense, you can't do tarot (e.g., for reading, meditation, etc.) unless you use tarot cards. Tarot _is_ the cards in my view; but there are some occultists who argue that tarot existed before tarot cards. However, once you've studied tarot and perhaps used the tarot cards, you could, for example, use tarot as an archetype system for structuring other ideas and concepts. That's an example of how you could tarot could be done without actually using tarot cards.

firemaiden	16 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel If we didn't have the cards, then would we have the Tarot? And if we read without the cards, are we reading Tarot? Or something else? Like a persons energy? Or are using our clairvoyant, intuitive or psychic skills? Are the cards bits of cardboard and nothing else? If the cards are only bits of cardboard, why are they so important? Is Tarot more than just bits of cardboard? For me the cards are pieces of cardboard. For me, Tarot is the cards, is 78 pieces of cardboard. reading tarot is the interaction of the the cards with the reader... perhaps some of us use the word 'tarot' as a short cut for "reading tarot" or for "reading" itself, or for divination itself. The way I see it, the cards are triggers. They stimulate thought. I like Diana's garden analogy. I think of the cards as little knives and forks that help you eat the arugula from the plate.... They help carve up chaos into byte-sized pieces, a few big dots, as opposed to a bazillion little dots. The brain connects the dots.

Thea Lynx	16 Mar 2004
HI TA, I see the cards as a tool, the way I reach into that body of knowledge and awareness that I call the Tarot. I think of it this way, Tarot cards are to Tarot as knitting needles are to knitting. I do not believe the Tarot can be done/accessed/appreciated without the use of cards. But the cards (and I am a confirmed deck junkie) are the tools only. I have heard, particularly from my tarot teacher, of readers who use regular playing cards, with no majors, and have wonderful results. As my familiarity with the cards/decks grows, I could probably read without the physical cards, but I would be seeing their images in my mind's eye, from shuffle right down to final interpretation. It is the message of the tarot, in the end, that is the most important. I have simply never found any other discipline that has spoken to me so clearly and deeply as has the Tarot, with the aid of these pretty pieces of paper. Thea Lynx

tmgrl2	16 Mar 2004
Good thread....I believe we all hold somewhere within us great universal understandings....how we get to that or if we ever do is another story. I do believe there are many people not interesting in murking around their inner terrains.... I find that Tarot and the cards...(as were color and handwritings in the past for me) are a tool to help my right brain create images and then ideas and connections that are philosophical and universal in nature.... Poor Socrates...he died hold to his belief that "the life which is unexamined is not worth living." bartleby.com/2/1/1.html The Apology of Socrates is so sad, yet so well worth reading.... Even without exploring the roots of the word Tarot....and its anagrams and analagous words...The Tarot we know today, to me is intertwined with a deck of 78 cards that represent certain things and that, when looked at alone and together within a reading....bring up "answers" to questions posed by oneself or another..... I find, like Diana, that good gardening requires some tools, garden tools preferably. Soul-searching, too, while based on perhaps all of what you mentioned TA...intuition, psychic talent, reading another's energy (although there are some outstanding online readings for people we have never met or seen or heard literally)....can be aided by using the Tarot (cards) as a tool. I also believe that we probably could answer questions for people without the cards...(but they might consider that prying) In Tarot, someone comes to us or we go to someone with a question and look to believe what we hear and hope to find some threads of guiding truth in the reading. I find as much good information about life and myself while I read a novel/fiction as I do when I read non-fiction... Even Socrates is still alive....since his words and ideas live. I like the "few big dots" idea...because there certainly are a gazillion little ones all floating around in there....making sense out of chaos...good....firemaiden LOVE TAROT...good thread...terri

TemperanceAngel	16 Mar 2004
Thanks so much everyone for your replies, I look forward to more responses :D :D :D Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 Soul-searching, too, while based on perhaps all of what you mentioned TA...intuition, psychic talent, reading another's energy (although there are some outstanding online readings for people we have never met or seen or heard literally)....can be aided by using the Tarot (cards) as a tool. A bit off the topic terri, but even when you read for someone on-line you can still read their energy, I suppose that's how distant healing works?? Anyways, keep on posting your wonderful responses :) XTAX

HOLMES	17 Mar 2004
i remember going to a person in winnipeg and saying what do you think of the archtypes on the tarot , do you feel the spiritual power when you read, he told me they are just cards, i said but when the energy flows , don't you feel a connection ? they are just pieces of cardboard. was his reply i thought to myself that is blaspemy , but then i though to myself why am i getting mad for, they are just cardboard. but spirits are within everything, so it is possible that a little peace of each archtypal energy is locked into each card. i like to think so , eheh, tarot for me is the tarot cards, and the teachings behind each card or it would just picture on the cards. for me tarot is more then the sums of each parts for it includes kabbalah, pyschology , philophsy, astrology, even numerolog , depending on how one approaches it, it is the teachings of life that i value the most, for without them , i wouldnt' have come nearly as far in my life, and i would be a lot more shallow then i am hehe

TemperanceAngel	17 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel I think Diana has opened this thread with a great analogy. This is an important discussion, everyones thoughts, experiences are greatly received, come on don't be shy! And don't be afraid of Diana, either, because she is a very caring and passionate individual, oh and extremely helpful too if you ever pm her :) Can I please add to that, I didn't mean that to sound as though everyone should run and pm Diana and overload her message box...YIKES!!! XTAX

raeanne	17 Mar 2004
Hi all, To me Tarot is a “system”. It is the organization of Major/Minor Arcanas with the Minor Arcana having four suits and each suit having 1-10 plus four “people” symbols. (I admit that I bend the rules on what I actually accept as Tarot, so decks with few cards or additional cards can still be Tarot for me but they still need to at least attempt to follow the standard organization.) Cards are an easy tool to use to represent each of the 78 elements of the Tarot. If I were to collect 78 stones and mark them with the Major/Minor Arcana symbols, put the stones in a bag, shake them up, pull stones and put them in a layout and interpret the results, I think that I would still be using the Tarot. I have thought about making a set of 78 wooden disks just to see how well this would work. I think the use of cards is just easier. They are light weight and small enough to take with you. Carrying a bag of 78 stones around just doesn’t sound like much fun.

Alissa	17 Mar 2004
Tarot cards are what I use to link up... Whatever I link up to could be called Tarot, as an archetypal form. Or Wisdom. Or Divinity.

Imagemaker	17 Mar 2004
Quote: Tarot cards are what I use to link up... Or Wisdom. Or Divinity. This is how I see it--they're the mobile phone to the Source.

thanatos	17 Mar 2004
there are a lot of ppl out there that belive diferant things about diferant things answer this ... have you ever tryed to do a tarot reading with out tarot cards ... when ever I have been asked to do a reading I use the cards as a guide .... if I recieve good vibes/spiritual comunication my pscychic abilaty atunes the cards to the person that I am doing the reading for .

Moonbow*	17 Mar 2004
My feeling is that Tarot cards are Tarot. You cannot do Tarot without them - they are a system which covers every multitude of emotion and thought but that thought comes from you . You can give a deck of tarot cards to someone who knows nothing about Tarot and the cards will mean nothing - just nice pictures. Once you have the interest and then do some research you can envisage the meanings of the cards - but this comes from learning and practice. I don't beleive Tarot is some unknown entity that just speaks to you when you start believing. Don't get me wrong - I beleive in Tarot - it works - but the interpretation comes from the reader.

tmgrl2	17 Mar 2004
I like to think of the Tarot Cards and the reader as part of a whole called Tarot.....maybe the Cards as the "art" and the readers of the cards as the "heart" with the "art" and the "heart" making the whole that we call Tarot. terri

TemperanceAngel	21 Mar 2004
I wanted to bump this back in before it went off the page as it's not nearly finished with yet! XTAX

Umbrae	21 Mar 2004
The Tarot are cards. 78 of them in fact. They are often used to play card games. The Tarot is a great mystery that that can help you attain spiritual growth. The Tarot can be used for divination, to help others…but then raindrops, spent shell casings from a semi-automatic .45 Colt, Sweet n’ Low packets, crystal balls, stones, tea leaves can all be used for divination. It’s like asking what is a car? It can help you move about the world, or it can be an instrument of death. So there is Tarot…in the hands of an idiot – they are useless and impart no wisdom. In the hands of a seeker, they may help provide spiritual growth. But there is yet another question that should be asked… I'll be discussing this very topic in Framlingham UK on August 14, 2004. Be there.

mysticali	22 Mar 2004
I can't talk about tarot without the cards being the first thing that pop into my mind. However, my gran used tea leaves to 'understand' people and what she saw there was as relevant to her in terms of imagery as my cards are to me. For those predisposed to explore that part of themelves and delve into the unknown I guess they will find a way cards or no cards. So is tarot a euphamism for something else - a key to unlock that path to another place - a security blanket for those who need a prop to divine - pretty pictures to stimulate thought ? Perhaps all of those and much much more. To answer the question, for me tarot is the cards - but that tarot is just a part of something else - some questing, a journey, something excting and magical. Perhaps each of us just know what it means for ourselves we just struggle to articulate it.

The Are Tarot and Tarot Cards The Same Thing.... thread was originally posted on 16 Mar 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.