Illogical Deductive Insight Of Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mercenary30	03 Mar 2004
(or IDIOT for short) My thought….. From most of the histories of Tarot that I have read, the general assumption is that Tarot started off as a card game. In some places in the world, it is still pursued as a card game. It wasn’t until some time in the last few centuries that a more mystical approach to Tarot came to be. I feel that tarot is still a game; the game of life. There are many modern games, and few ancient ones that are popular regionally and around the world. Some examples would be chess, checkers, poker, bridge, and craps. Many modern games share the use of gaming devices like dice, playing pieces and cards. Most of these games focus on the core set of rules and usually try to present an entertaining aspect of real life, like finance, war, or politics. Though they still can teach lessons about life and one can learn things useful in life while playing them, their main focus is on the rules of the game itself. For my contrast I will chose to use the game of Monopoly. In case you don’t know about the game, its basic premise is to purchase properties and improve them for public use. The winner is the person who monopolized the game board and puts all the other players into bankruptcy. (And people wonder why Americans, stereotypically, are so materialistic/capitalistic. We do it for FUN!) Monopoly rules are pretty narrowly defined, although certain other game features will touch on subjects such as taxes, windfalls, and location, location, location. There are life lessons that can be garnered from the participation in and enjoyment of this game. I have played many a Monopoly game that ended in a near draw because the two final players end up fairly equal in position and it would ultimately come down to a luck of the dice. The game I really want to discuss here is life. People can define it what they like, but personally find the definition of life being a big game the most accurate. There are many ways throughout civilizations, historically and current, to explain the rules of life. Spiritual methods, religious methods, governmental methods, the answers are everywhere. But for some reason there are many differences. No one answer satisfies all, except maybe one; Tarot. Tarot, to me seems to lay out a very well defined path; a tried and true set of rules about life, and what one must learn, endure, or attain; mentally, financially, emotionally, and spiritually to be truly happy, and a good person. That is what makes tarot so special and intriguing. It supports Jewish concepts, astrological concepts, Christian concepts, Pagan concepts, and many other forms of spiritual guidance and learning adopted by billions of people over the existence of mankind. Granted we can interpret things differently, and use stylistically different decks, but we are using the same tool for the same reason. To find answers, to better understand our existence and improve it for ourselves and others. We have determined that the only playing piece in the game of life that we control is ourselves, and for what ever reason, trying to determine what must be done to have the most optimal outcome. We are exploring the Tarot, as a means towards that end. We are all here on Aeclectic Tarot, searching for basically same thing. Tarot is the common ground that we all share no matter where we live, what we believe, or what our heritage may consist of. It is interesting how well we can all get along as long as we are supporting each other and entertaining ourselves personally. But if the discussion turns to doctrine specific to any of our worldly differences how quickly things can get tense or even ugly. The tarot brought us here, it is our common ground. It has been around for many centuries and possibly longer than that, and has kept pretty close to its roots the whole time. I would say that we are all exploring something quite wonderful here folks. Wow. Did I just get on a soap box? P.S. Where can I find the rules to playing the card game associated with Tarot?

mj07	03 Mar 2004
Quote: No one answer satisfies all, except maybe one; Tarot. Tarot, to me seems to lay out a very well defined path; a tried and true set of rules about life, and what one must learn, endure, or attain; mentally, financially, emotionally, and spiritually to be truly happy, and a good person. That is what makes tarot so special and intriguing. It supports Jewish concepts, astrological concepts, Christian concepts, Pagan concepts, and many other forms of spiritual guidance and learning adopted by billions of people over the existence of mankind. Granted we can interpret things differently, and use stylistically different decks, but we are using the same tool for the same reason. To find answers, to better understand our existence and better it for ourselves and others. We have determined that the only playing piece in the game of life that we control is ourselves, and for what ever reason, trying to determine what must be done to have the most optimal outcome. We are exploring the Tarot, as a means towards that end. Really interesting, I hadn't quite thought of Tarot in that light. I wonder, though, if this is true across cultures. For example, I have many friend who are Asian, live in SE Asia, etc. Do they have different types of Tarot decks in different regions of the world? Is there a different "game" of sorts (mahjong comes to mind, though since I don't know the history of the same, I've never come across anything comparing it to Tarot) in different regions of the world? My impression, from what little I know, is that many of the archetypes, especially as they are presented in RWS, are VERY European. Can non-europeans relate to them? Hope my wandering thoughts aren't going OT!

tmgrl2	03 Mar 2004
You have said ALL I feel about Tarot, Mercenary....I really view it as a tool of insight in the game of life....I have always felt that way about life, and explored other models of examining myself (or others) but Tarot offers it all. I am still new. I'm no a big Shirley Mclane (spelled right?) fan, but I do feel we live our lives in a play format (Shakespeare said "All the world's a stage..." and to paraphrase him, we really are the "players." Some of the people (as Shirley writes about) are in our lives for a scene , an act , several acts, but a rare few for the whole play. I just posted to you on another thread where you mentioned you are trying to learn the cards by looking at them....as suggested...I am doing that,too. I was so busy studying the books that when I began some readings for myself, whole different interpretations popped up on different levels...spiritually, physically, emotionally, mentally...it's an amazing tool. I never thought I would even want a deck other than RWS (since it is, I feel a good one for a beginner) but now that I lurk in threads like Lunalafey's Redwood Circle (actually felt honored to be invited in) or Firemaiden's humorous readings...I want to see those whole decks...I just bought Tarot of Prague and a Thoth deck and would like Sacred Circle and LOTR.. good thread...maybe it helps to answer MT's question about promoting Tarot throughout the community and/or in the world at large. terri

Dark_angel	03 Mar 2004
The immediate impression I got from merc's post was that we are all here on Aeclectic for similar reasons, and should be celebrating our unity and our differences, rather than focusing on the negative aspects of diversity. I think this is a lesson that everyone needs to remember in all walks of life - how many wars could have been avoided if the instigators and their supporters had appreciated the others' unique qualities? The diversity of Tarot is, quite frankly, mindboggling to me. There are decks based on every point of view imaginable, and each one may be used and valued. Even if I do not like a deck, for whatever reason, I know that there are people out there who will think it is fantastic, and one day I may join their ranks, if I am open-minded enough to study the basis of the cards. Merc's references to games enjoyed around the world got me thinking; how many people now play games with Tarot cards, compared with earlier times? Tarot used to be a game, available to all who could gain access to a deck; yet now many people regard it as something so mystical it should not be touched by the uninitiated, or think that it is related to the Devil and Satanism. Could this be a symptom of a Ten of Pentacles Syndrome? Maybe people are so secure in their little worlds of materialism that they do not wish to be reminded of something more beyond that? When did people swap the game of Tarot (I forget the proper name for it) for Monopoly? One thing I know, though, is that every single person on this site has come here because we want to learn. We want to explore Tarot's interpretations of the rules of life. This binds us together, and this bond should not be thrown away because of politics, religion, or anything else you can imagine.

Star Spirit	03 Mar 2004
I also hadn't thought of Tarot in quite that way before! How very true. It doesn't matter what your religion is or your beliefs are, tarot supports them all and helps us through our daily life, and really, asks nothing in return. Amen :)

lark	03 Mar 2004
Loved this Mercenary... I was thinking of the Redwood circle to, as I read it. I searched many avenues of spiritality before I came to tarot, and I recognized everyone of them when I started to study seriously. Finding tarot was like coming home...the missing link of how to make a path through this life. I never want to stop playing this game. I read some where that Tarot cards were used by children to play games to prepare them for life. And that the cards were tacked around the school room to remind them of the progression of a valuable life. Like the alphabet is displayed in our modern school rooms today. And as you observed our devil horns come out when certain aspects of the cards that we hold dear ar pulled out and held under the magnifying glass. I think it's human nature to defend what we believe. I don't think that will ever change. But this is a good learning ground to voice our differences with compassion and tolerance. But isn't it glorious that all of those different beliefs can be in one set of cards and that we can all agree on one thing. They're an amazing tool for self realization. And give us the understanding we need to follow whatever path we chose in this big game. Can I be the Scotty Dog? I'm always the Scotty Dog. :D

firemaiden	03 Mar 2004
Tarot as the Game of Life! Yes! The Game of Everything. Wonderful post Merc.

mercenary30	03 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mj07 Really interesting, I hadn't quite thought of Tarot in that light. I wonder, though, if this is true across cultures. For example, I have many friend who are Asian, live in SE Asia, etc. Do they have different types of Tarot decks in different regions of the world? Is there a different "game" of sorts (mahjong comes to mind, though since I don't know the history of the same, I've never come across anything comparing it to Tarot) in different regions of the world? My impression, from what little I know, is that many of the archetypes, especially as they are presented in RWS, are VERY European. Can non-europeans relate to them? Hope my wandering thoughts aren't going OT! Is there anybody out there who can speak to concept of tarot and eastern practices? I don't have any particular knowledge here........

tmgrl2	03 Mar 2004
Oh, no...just wrote a long post, hit wrong button and lost it...maybe meant to be! Anyhow, I agree that the cards speak to each of us as they tap into our own experience. We bring beliefs, hidden and surface to all that we do...but what I love is that there is no right and wrong here. I was welcomed into The Redwood Circle, with Firemaiden and Skytwig holding my hands...then sent many hugs when my husband went into hospital. I have been an "initiate" many times in my life and, yes, there's always someone who has to say "You wouldn't know...you have never.....whatever it is they think I have never done, experienced...." That always hurts. No one is right. We all have the choice to put on the cloth of perception that fits, and discard those ideas that don't. And somehow, those of us that feel this way have apparently found each other on this website. BTW, is that a book you are writing? That thread /the story was fascinating...have to search for it. It was excellent. terri

Mimers	03 Mar 2004
Merc, You are an amazing man with words! That was great. Mimi

TheoMo	03 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mercenary30 Is there anybody out there who can speak to concept of tarot and eastern practices? I don't have any particular knowledge here........ Mercenary30, I have been a practicing Buddhist for a number of years now (raised in a mixed-religious household) and being new to Tarot I must admit I am somewhat torn between the promise of great spiritual/emotional insight through the "game of Tarot" and with much in Buddhism that cautions against (1) developing attachment and, relatedly, (2) purposefully seeking out means to divine the future. I think Buddhism is quite clear in framing much of existence as a game already, as a spiritual journey with an ever-changing path based on our decisions and the karmic influence of what happens. If similar games have not developed it perhaps it is because developing a game for a game might seem redudant. Who knows. That being said, Tarot fits quite easily into the framework of Buddhism, at least in my opinion, especially gaining insight at karmic forces or in looking at intentions. As I mentioned earlier though, Buddhism does caution against developing such skills, not b/c of some view that it is 'evil', but because in a sense it is a distraction from playing the real game of life, and by and large Buddhism seeks to limit distractions. Anyway that was a long post to what could be summed up as, "Tarot fits well with many paths."

MeeWah	04 Mar 2004
Mercenary30: Thanks so much for a thoughtful & insightful commentary on Tarot & its relation to (the game of) Life & to the memories evoked of the many occasions of the board games of "Monopoly" & of "Life". In general, the eastern thought/philosophy is in distinct contrast to that of western thought. The former focuses on the inner person or life whereas the latter is on the outer life. Speaking as one who was brought up in an eastern & a Buddhist household, Tarot offers a perfect means to develop the values with which to promote the inner life. Though I no longer practice Buddhism per se, its influence remains strong & permeates much of my view of life & what I currently practice of many years now. TheoMo's reference to the Buddhist teaching of detachment is correct. Indeed, its use of meditation encourages detachment.

Phoenyx*	04 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mj07 My impression, from what little I know, is that many of the archetypes, especially as they are presented in RWS, are VERY European. Can non-europeans relate to them? Hope my wandering thoughts aren't going OT! MJ, I would say that the archetypes presented by the Tarot are more human than continental, but that's just MHO.

lionette	04 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mercenary30 ... Tarot, to me seems to lay out a very well defined path ... Yes, this is exactly what draws me to tarot. Plus, it's presented w/o the rigid dogmas of most organized religion. I see tarot as a universally approachable system that addresses the human condition in a humane way, encouraging that we look within to understand our own dualities, to find happiness, endure hardships, and all those othe things we encounter along our journey. Many thanks Mercenary for posting and encouraging me to redefine my own relationship to tarot. :)

mj07	04 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Triquetra MJ, I would say that the archetypes presented by the Tarot are more human than continental, but that's just MHO. thanks everyone about your comments on Buddhism and tarot (I thought about starting a new thread, maybe I will, but not sure if this is the right section?) I've thought about taking each of my daily cards, as I'm trying to learn, and studying how Buddhist concepts can fit into them. That way, I can get all my meditating in at once! :) anyway, I guess the reason I asked is b/c if you look at the RWS decks and its clones there are so many distinctively European images. Take for example, the Four of Swords, which I've been reading up on. It shows a European Knight taking repose (or dead, depending on your interpretation) in a church. How does someone who has no cultural reference to cards such as that on (or judgement. or the hierophant, etc.) relate to them?

Imagemaker	04 Mar 2004
Quote: It shows a European Knight taking repose (or dead, depending on your interpretation) in a church. But there are Samari warriors who used swords and went to temples. An archetype is global, that's why it's an archetype. If you go to Google Images and type in tarot and any one of the majors (tarot fool, tarot sun, etc), you'll find images of many, many versions of that card, far beyond what is published in print. Some are Japanese, for example.

The Illogical Deductive Insight Of Tarot thread was originally posted on 03 Mar 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.