Can a deck be "possessed"...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kittaine	09 Apr 2004
...when you dedicate it to demons, for example?

Khatruman	09 Apr 2004
Ohhh, all my decks are possessed..... By MEEEEEEEE!!!!! "They are mine, my own... my preciousssssssssssss" }) Sorry, not meaning to make light of your question (Well, ok, I really am), but I think it is disempowering to think of possession and demonic dedication of a deck of cardboard playing cards. Do a search on a word like "intuition" in this forum and you will see several examples of advice on developing your understanding of tarot as a power within you. When you begin thinking the power is in the cards, spirits or demons in the images, you take that intuitive power away from yourself. Learn the cards and what they mean to you. Take back the power from those nasty little bugaboos!!!!

Kittaine	09 Apr 2004
*sticks tongue out at Khatruman* :P I'm serious, you! Yes, I believe that part of Tarot reading is using your intuitive power, but what if...I mean, does anybody here believe that things can get possessed, not just Tarot cards?

contrascarpe	09 Apr 2004
I personally never believe that inanimate objects could be possessed ..... but I do not discount that either. I have been around supernatural thoughts my whole life, so nothing surprises me.

MuffinTops	09 Apr 2004
I think inanimate objects can have bad energy. Everything has a vibration. Wood, cloth, plastic and yes even paper.

ros	09 Apr 2004
Anything can be possessed if you want it to be. It's a state of mind. I do believe anything is possible within reason!

laura_borealis	09 Apr 2004
I'm with MuffinTops -- I think anything can have bad energy. I don't really believe in demons possessing things, though. If I had a deck that felt like it had bad energy, and it resisted being cleansed, then I would get rid of it.

Cerulean	09 Apr 2004
it seems precious objects such as gemstones with large and beautiful cuts do have histories and actually seem to spark a universal reaction to their beauty. Some artworks fluctuate in value, but it depends if their histories are appealing to lots of people. I am not certain I can name any flat painted object that has universally appealed or gave universal emotional reaction to the unknowing of its history. A deck of cards is a visual collection of images, but I haven't heard of any universal reaction to any deck that give such influence over human emotions. So the connections of someone's knowledge and emotion to an object can influence their experience and make something seem 'powerful'. A discovery of a 'black madonna' small figurine probably from ancient pagan times was rediscovered and at first venerated supposedly in some 13th-15th century Italian village, as the story goes, until they had bad weather or plague outbreaks. The figurine was either buried or destroyed, according to local custom and superstition. I think in that context, the collective experience and the ideas of a group of people can give context to 'possession' because it was a belief shared by a community that lived, worked, prayed and walked their lives together. They lived or died by their success of their crops. But I think for something such as an Egyptian papyrus from ancient times, for it to have a thousand to hundreds of years of meaning or association, someone has to have written or given meaning or translated such things. In comparison, a fading deck of gilded cards, a shell of a building--even from the 14th century, while precious to us collector-types--I think if the observer has no idea, they can be entirely unaffected by the superstitious association of posession or emotional experience that another observer would have. There will be some very perceptive people who can be affected by past histories or associations with objects OR they can be people whose unconscious adds up a lot of little clues until they 'arrive' at the flash of intuition that 'tells' them a new perspective. I hope the ideas help a little..I don't know if this means anything. Thank you for allowing me to air my wandering thoughts. Mari H.

Nevada	09 Apr 2004
No more than anything else can be. Like a washcloth, a stick of gum ... I do believe that things have an essence or a kind of spirit (not really like that of an animate being, but some kind of essence). I don't believe in classifying a spirit as either good or evil. Everyone and everything is a blend of light and dark, positive and negative, good and bad. So if you're worried that your cards are possessed? I don't think so. However, the important matter is whether you think so, if that's part of your belief system, and if you believe that it's hampering their usefulness to you. If so, then try prayer, ritual, or some kind of cleansing of your cards. You added, "when you dedicate it to demons, for example." Why would you want to do that? Why not dedicate it to yourself, for your use? I guess I don't, after all, get the question. :confused: Nevada

Khatruman	09 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros Anything can be possessed if you want it to be. It's a state of mind. I do believe anything is possible within reason! Ahhh, "if you want it to be..." A famous character from a very famous play by a very famous author once said, "...for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so..." I know, Kittaine, that I sounded dismissive. I am open-minded enough to grant the energies possible in inanimate objects. My point was that the idea of "possession" in them is detrimental in most cases; it has the capacity to victimize one to those powers. I believe more in the animate energies in living beings, and in beings endowed with a highly developed consciousness. One's reality is often different from another's based on what their experience and learning has taught them. Thus, one who thinks "life sucks" will certainly see it that way, ignoring the beauty even staring them in the face. Those who see lovers as deceptive and unfaithful will tend to draw that type of lover to them. It is in the energy they project and the blinders they have put on themselves. There is the danger in seeing your cards as "possessed" in that you give them the power, not yourself. I believe that, whatever energy may exist in your cards, a stronger energy exists in you. Don't give it up to cardboard.

Diana	09 Apr 2004
I think if someone seriously dedicates something to demons, and knows what they are doing.... then trouble is on the way. Whether it be a tarot deck or anything else. The dark side is not to be fooled around with. However, I reckon very few people know how to invoke demons and so that there would be very little possibility of them having that power. Magic is something that requires great knowledge and a lot of practice.

MuffinTops	09 Apr 2004
I think Diana makes a good point!

HudsonGray	09 Apr 2004
I, too, side with the 'energies' but not demons in this. It is after all only a tool, if I dedicated mine to the Goddess, I'd maybe invoke a bit of power into them, but it's not living power. she's a Goddess, more powerful than a demon. What use would a demon have of a deck of cards (or washcloth or stick of gum)? All energies can be cleansed out if you need them to be. The power is in you, not the energies of the cards, after all.

Kittaine	10 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Nevada You added, "when you dedicate it to demons, for example." Why would you want to do that? Why not dedicate it to yourself, for your use? I guess I don't, after all, get the question. :confused: Nevada Yes, it was an accident. It was my first ever deck. I was familarizing myself with the cards. Then when I looked away for a second, my b**ch roommate was holding them while she made fun of me and the fact that I was getting into Tarot. I got so angry, I stupidly "dedicated" the cards to some malevolent force, and so there...

Diana	10 Apr 2004
Kittaine: I understand your angry reaction!!! Don't worry about your cards. They're just fine. You don't sound like a powerful magician to me. Just someone who got angry with a friend! Just go and enjoy your cards and don't worry about a thing!

Kittaine	10 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Kittaine: I understand your angry reaction!!! Don't worry about your cards. They're just fine. You don't sound like a powerful magician to me. Just someone who got angry with a friend! Just go and enjoy your cards and don't worry about a thing! LOL! But funny things happened after that. First, I became horribly suicidal. A friend who's a learned psychic and an expert Tarot reader confirmed that I'd been "possessed". He did something, and then I went back to my usual self. Stranger things happened after that. My roommate, I still hated her but I never let her know, so she thought I was okay with her. Well, some weeks after the Tarot incident, I found out that her mother got hit by a truck and underwent operation. Her mom has recovered. On the same day that her mom had the accident, my roommate's side mirrors got stolen while she was still in her car (they tell me side mirrors are expensive; I don't know). But before that, she got held up and her cellphone was taken. Still, more things happened...My friend who's a psychic (the same one who "exorcised" me), we had a fight and stopped talking to each other. Around the same time, I remember holding the supposedly "possessed" cards. That was the first time I took them out since the incident with the roommate. Then everything after that just went crazy. I went through weeks of hopelessness, dejection, suicidal tendencies, sleepless nights, tears, helplessness..eventhough no outside factors seemed to fuel it. It was just me and my painful memories. When I realized that "Hey, this isn't something normal. I know something's wrong with me, but what? There's no reason for me to feel like this, and I've never been like this before," I prayed to my God, prayed real hard and in the process was exorcised. @_@ I don't know what to make of it. But there it is. That's my strange little story. Those things did happen. Whether the individual events are interrelated in any way, I don't know, but I'd like to think they are. If you want to know what happened to the cards, I sold them to a classmate. Just to be safe.

Khatruman	10 Apr 2004
Kittaine, There is an odd little section of our brains called the Reticular Activating System. What this system does is to call our attention to things that it feels are important. When you are very hungry, it notices things in your environment that are associated with food. When you learn a new word, it finds that word in your environment and you start getting this "weird" thing where the word is appearing everywhere. There are an infinite number of stimuli in your environment. You are being assaulted by a thousand sensory stimuli every minute. The RAS is there to sort all this stimuli out so that only the important stuff is truly processed. You tell it what to focus on. So what happens is that you get this message of "possession" by demons, and you tell your RAS "I have been cursed. Look for signs in my environment that this is true." Thus, all these horrible things happen, and your brain is telling you that it is all connected to this possession. I really don't think it involves that goofy angry thing you said with your roommate when she teased you about your tarot deck. However, if it helps: go bury the deck in your yard, pray to whatever God/Goddess you take stock in that they rest in peace, then go buy a new deck and give it the blessings and protection of your God/Goddess. Then you will be fine.

Nevada	10 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Khatruman However, if it helps: go bury the deck in your yard, pray to whatever God/Goddess you take stock in that they rest in peace, then go buy a new deck and give it the blessings and protection of your God/Goddess. This is what I would also suggest, if it worries you that much. Be careful in future about not doing something like this in a moment of anger. However, (((Kittaine))), I really think you have assigned too much power to this little deck of Tarot cards, in your mind, and to your expression of anger, in that moment, toward your roommate. Bad things happen in real life all the time. You're experiencing a time when a lot of serious incidents seem to be coming together all at once, for you and those around you. It doesn't mean that you did something terrible to deserve it or that a demon has possessed your cards. These things happen. The best thing we can do is try to learn something from these incidents, try to help each other through the crises. Fear can be a powerful force if we let it be, but we need not let it. Maybe this isn't a good time for you to be reading Tarot. Just get through this difficult time, and later you can always come back to it, when you're feeling less vulnerable and fearful. Nevada

Pagan X	10 Apr 2004
Kit, I'll join in that it isn't the cards. You and your roommate are at an age when both of you are more vulnerable to petty crime--living in transient housing--keeping odd hours--surrounded with unsettled individuals, some away from parental supervision for the first time. Because you do not get along with your roommate, you have a higher level of anxiety and annoyance in your home space; this prevents you from relaxing, interferes with sleep, and contributes to depression. You are also at the age when anxiety and depression "bloom"; this leads your mind to attribute a cause to something. In this case, your cards. You don't sound spiritually comfortable with occult arts--your roommate articulated that discomfort as well. Tarot is not the issue. A safe place to live with a real friend is.

Cerulean	10 Apr 2004
You were living in a communal environment with no privacy and several stressful incidents happened in a short time. I hope you find over time tarot becomes a creative outlet that you can enjoy for a better perspective. The horrible time you went through sounds situational, a high-stress time that expressed itself in a painful reaction. I'm glad that you found how to deal with the second bout with your own adjustment and prayers--it sounds like you became a stronger person. Believe it or not, the dark decks such as the Gothic Tarot of the Vampires from Joseph Vargo and Lo Scarabeo were very invigorating as creative outlets for fiction and poetry topics I tried to explore to help keep my mind creative. Last year my well-liked manager's husband died of a cancer hard to detect, although he had been ailing for the past year and a half. In a crush of events, I was helping more at work in a very busy time and we had some more intensive things happen with less people. Also, there were supposed to joyful family events focusing on others and I did what was required, having to put a brave face. I was also learning how to help my husband's adjustment to not working, but to refocus on school and his health, which was a big change for a mature man. Yes I was tired, sometimes angry, trying not to get sick in very important work and family times when people were down with colds and stress and flu--with time, one uses exercise, perspective, humor, friendship with those who care, and the personal studies of wonderful tarot decks to help alleviate intensity. I also noticed, looking back, that when my manager was safely back and the holidays were over, I dealt with a horrible cold and my grandmother's death with the same learning and a kinder perspective for having lived through such things. I didn't mean to go on--I just meant to let you know that tarot study actually helps people put intensive times in perspective, actually gives them something creative and hopeful to work on in 'stressful' situations. Be well and good wishes to you... Mari H.

Kittaine	11 Apr 2004
I'd just like to make something clear: Perhaps the cards didn't carry around some negitive entity. It was probably the action of invoking negitivity that did it, and the cards were perfectly okay. And perhaps I didn't get "possessed" when I held the cards again, but perhaps the friend whom I had a fight with, who's quite versed in magick, hexed me. And the cards were perfectly okay. So it could have been my calling on negative powers; it could have been the doing of my ex-friend. But just to be perfectly sure, I got rid of the cards. Better safe than sorry, right? That said, I'm not discounting the possibility that it was all just a compounded result of stress, the collective environment, and the discomfort of living with a person you abhor. It could all just have been coincidences--events that I somehow psychologically connected with each other. The extreme suicidal-depression I felt might not have been the doing of some demon or some curse my ex-friend put on me; it could just have easily been the effect of the emotional circumstances I was under. But no matter who or what the culprit was--IF there was even a culprit at all--I'll never forget that prayer saved me from the depression and changed me. If you haven't tried it, you should! :D Thanks all for the thoughtful replies!

Star Spirit	11 Apr 2004
I'm sorry that happened to you, Kittaine. I also lean more towards the "energy" outlook. I believe everything has a natural energy about it, and living beings have perhaps a stronger, more diverse energy. I believe some people carry negative energy and can transmit that into their possessions if it is very strong. But I'd like to think that most inanimate objects are quite harmless :) and that it takes a lot more than a heat-of-the-moment dedication of an object to demons to make it possessed. I think that would take some serious meditation combined with the imminent presence of negative spirits. Chances are these incidents were all just coincidental. I hope this doesn't scare you away from tarot cards! :) Although I don't like the sound of your roommate...although it's probably unlikely that she hexed you, you never know with people like that. I'd think that someone so magickally inclined would be much more supportive of tarot.

Kittaine	11 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Dead Star Chances are these incidents were all just coincidental. I hope this doesn't scare you away from tarot cards! :) Although I don't like the sound of your roommate...although it's probably unlikely that she hexed you, you never know with people like that. I'd think that someone so magickally inclined would be much more supportive of tarot. Oh no, my roommate doesn't know squat about magick. The person who might've hexed me is this guy who couldn't take rejection. No, it didn't scare me away from tarot cards. But just to be perfectly sure, I'll be careful about holding the cards while I'm very angry. Hehehe. Thanks. :)

Pagan X	11 Apr 2004
I can certainly see that opening a new deck of Tarot cards, or any other to-be-personal object, and then having a rotten personal exchange would ruin that object. Every time you look at it, you are going to be reminded of all those emotions. Holding a Tarot deck you've had for twenty years is calming because of the strength of the positive emotions. Perhaps you should get a pocket Bible to carry for stressful occasions.

HudsonGray	11 Apr 2004
To relieve your mind over it, why not spread the cards out under the light of the moon for a night, that's supposed to purge all negativity out of them. Doesn't even have to be a full moon (I think it's in a quarter phase at the moment), just under the moon's light. They can be on a windowsill where the light will touch them, or outside with you on a blanket for 5 minutes, or spread on a table if nobody will disturb or damage them by putting something on top of them.

Star Spirit	11 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine Oh no, my roommate doesn't know squat about magick. The person who might've hexed me is this guy who couldn't take rejection. No, it didn't scare me away from tarot cards. But just to be perfectly sure, I'll be careful about holding the cards while I'm very angry. Hehehe. Thanks. :) Oops! Sorry for misunderstanding :) I agree with HudsonGray, cleansing is a good idea.

HOLMES	13 Apr 2004
first for the present, 1. do you feel the cleansing took effect and all is well in the present, now for what comes to mind, one doens't need to know about magick to hex someone, for when we think negative thoughts about someone constantly or powerfully we send these energy forms at the person literally and they made get a sore back for the negative thought forms took forms of energy daggers right into the back. depending on what kind of hatred , anger, negative feeling was actually invoked. to clear one self one has to simply call in the light , ground and not send the energy back at the person or persons but to simply radiate forgiveness, love and acceptance. and as you do that , your aura will be filled with love . to do this daily would be to strenghten, and raise your vibration on a constant basis and the negative thoughts forms or vibrations will not take effect. for the tarot cards being possed. there has been great deal of discussion here, on the sense that items can be imbued with the energy of their owner either good or negative is proven by history. however we must remember the conductivity of the product or the energy being imbued will weaken and disappear over time. 1. you said it as a joke however did not focus the dark , or negative forces into the cards. 2. it does depend greatly on your beliefs and power of belief. 3. if i say something is possed i leave the way for negative spirits to do so if i believe it enough 4. they say demons are actual aspects of the mind projected outward by ego how true that is , i do not know for i am just reading up on crowly and magick book 5. however, with that in mind regardless , calling in the light , leaving the cards in the sun , smoking them in good smelling herbs (we call this purifying by smoke ) ground yourself and any possiblities of above will definatly disappear 6. as for your friend, well i do not wish to judge that you may or not be "hexed" for we come from differnt cultures and have our differnt versions of spirts and customs . but the light filling and surrounding techiques is an universal techqiue that will take care of that furthermore calling in the angels, masters, the source, will add to the light and help safeguard you .

Umbrae	13 Apr 2004
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the thesis question here: Can a deck be possessed. Everybody has done a fine job of answering…however. What if? What if ink and paper can be possessed? What if…? Has anybody addressed the power of suggestion? Why in many cases, with proper application, do placebo’s produce better results than the medications they are supposed to be? What if? We are so gleeful to crush another myth, that we are losing sight of why the myth began. Sometimes placing a thought in the mind causes the mind to begin connecting dots where there is no connection between separate events, no common causality. Remember the psychic attacks perpetrated upon members of the Golden Dawn back in the teens? Were they real? Were they suggestive? And how about this…do you really know? Or is it a supposition based on faith? Me? I don’t have the answers. My personal answer to the question is no…but deep inside I have to ask…”What if…?” And HOLMES, as usual, speaks wisdom that should be listened to.

HudsonGray	13 Apr 2004
If you really truly believe a deck is possessed, it's easy enough to toss it away, sell it or burn it & go get a new one, I suppose. That would end the line of possession pretty quick.

ros	13 Apr 2004
Yes, even cut it up & throw it away. Move on.

laura_borealis	13 Apr 2004
She said she got rid of it.

Kittaine	14 Apr 2004
Thanks, Umbrae and Holmes. That was very thought-provoking. Oh, and incidentally, the deck was a Golden Dawn Magical Tarot. As for my personal beliefs, I think demons (in the Christian tradition) do exist, as sure as God in Heaven and Lucifer in Hell exist. Yes, I believe these demons can "live" within just about anything if you let them. You seem to give emphasis to the power of the mind. Although I believe the mind is capable of nearly unlimited things, most of which we haven't even tapped, I'd still like to think that demons are not just my outward projections. But if they are, then they must be very powerful at most and extremely annoying at least, only because I let them. In fact, they owe their very existence to me??? Hehehe. I've never read Crowley--never even heard of that name till only recently--but I think I'll take that up this summer. Still, I don't have a definite "yes" or a definite "no" on anything (at least not yet). My beliefs may change. Heck, they always change. So, to sum the major points... let me see if I got this right: 1. It could all just have been emotional and psychological disturbances brought about by the physical environment. 2. The stressful physical environment served only as a spark. The more important thing was the "negative/bad energy" that we produced. This energy could have gotten into the cards and into the tangible surroundings in the form of the accidents. 3. (This is sorta related to #2., except...different, hehe) It was all in the mind. Whether or not demons exist and are capable of possessing cards, the CRUCIAL thing is that I "thought" and believed they existed and could do such thing. 4. Yes, negative beings do exist apart from ourselves and they can sure as heck possess cards if you give them the slightest opening. 5. Regardless of which of the above is true, everyone benefits from "the light", from cleansing, from forgiveness, from prayer, and from positive energy. Did I get anything wrong? Did I leave anything out? Oh, and I did sell the cards to my classmate! I haven't gotten reports of suicidal-depression yet, though! Hehehe.

The Can a deck be "possessed"... thread was originally posted on 09 Apr 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.