Ever had a client humiliate you????

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

yve	07 Apr 2004
This was a first for me. A client paid me to do a reading on a past love, and whether they would ever get together again....I did a spread and did a reading....she pressed me for more details and I pulled more cards answering the questions she asked...she then suddenly informed me "I'm married, I guess your cards didn't see that!".....I just simply replied that she asked me about her and ___ and that is what I asked the cards. She didn't ask me about her marriage, and I didn't ask the cards that, and I apologized she didn't appreciate the reading and gave her money back...What has been your past experiences with clients who are out to humiliate what we do????

SongDeva	07 Apr 2004
Next time keep her money; otherwise she'll keep doing this, since it doesn't cost her anything! People come into our lives to teach us something...what did she bring up for you in terms of how you view your abilities? In answer to your question, this has never happened to me. I haven't read professionally that much.

tmgrl2	07 Apr 2004
yve...Hi Just posted something on another thread recently addressing this kind of person: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24396&perpage=10&highlight=Why%20do%20we%20read%20tarot&pagenumber=7 This woman was paying to "test" you, not paying for a reading.... You did what I would have...given her money back and said "Bye".....A psychic I worked with many years ago refused to read for people...once they came to see him and posed questions and he spent a couple of minutes with them...he said, "I'm sorry I can't read for you...I'm sensing what I have to offer is not why you are here to see me..." He used to charge and get $100 a session in the late seventies...he was quite good and well-known in the Florida area...and nationally, when he was on TV...wrote a book called The Rainbow Oracle...Tony Grosso.. That was my model for sensing when I wouldn't read for people. I am just learning Tarot, but even now, when I sense my friends or family aren't serious or are looking for something that Tarot ISN'T I just say..."not now," or "Maybe one day when I'm more versed in Tarot." Sorry you went through that...it's a very upsetting experience...but the problem was hers...not yours....constructive interaction is different from "Gotcha!" terri

tmgrl2	07 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by SongDeva Next time keep her money; otherwise she'll keep doing this, since it doesn't cost her anything! People come into our lives to teach us something...what did she bring up for you in terms of how you view your abilities? In answer to your question, this has never happened to me. I haven't read professionally that much. This is true, too....I wouldn't give back money when I perform in my capacity professionally....I think with Tarot, I would be more comfortable returning the money, but SongDeva has a point...it depends on where you are in your reading experience....maybe one day I will charge...and I don't think then that I would give the money back, either...I might not read for someone if my antennae go up before we start... terri

Ruby7	07 Apr 2004
Yve, as far as I'm concerned that is just horrible. Either this person was nasty and wanted to humiliate someone, or was naive and thought that her "test" would prove whether you were "psychic" or not. Since we take people at their word there was no reason to question whether her question was valid or not. Hope you don't feel too badly about this, it's her loss, Ruby7

Umbrae	07 Apr 2004
Hey it happens; especially at ‘psychic fairs’ where folks go to ‘expose the fakes’ for their friends. In time, with enough readings under your belt, you will begin to smell a rat (or other rodent). Sometimes the cards will tell you that they are a rodent in training, but you have to be listening to the cards – retain some flexibility in possibilities. Remember, the cards will tell you what you need to know – don’t keep drawing cards – the answer is right there in front of you – but the answer they give, may not be what you expect… zorya reminds us, “If we are too attached to a perceived outcome, we may miss opportunities, or what is truly meant for us”. Don’t keep drawing cards. A three card spread consists of three cards – clarifying cards obfuscate the issue. This is true for the reader as well. I do wish you could post the reading. So keep reading, you’ll learn to spot the jerks, and your readings for them will be just fine...keep the money.

SongDeva	07 Apr 2004
Alternatively, hit them in the head with some of Umbrae's cast-off LWB's....they can give nasty papercuts if used correctly.

tarotbrat	07 Apr 2004
i am sorry that this happened to you. that does sound like a horrible experience. you are right, the lady questioned a past lover and not her marriage and the answer you gave her was appropriate. i would have told her exactly what you had told her. do not let people like that, make you question your ability as a reader. i agree with songdeva, next time a person tries to humiliate you, do not give them back their money. you worked hard and true on their reading and people that cheat readers deserve not to getaway with a free reading. i have not been humiliated yet, but then again i don't read constantly as a professional. i have humiliated myself once by saying someone was not pregnant, but i interpreted incorrectly, empress reversed, and she was pregnant but she did not know it at that point. she now has a very healthy baby girl who just celebrated her 1 year birthday. luckily we both laugh about it to this day, she is a co-worker of mine, so i see her everyday. i learned quickly that there are many meanings or themes to a reversed card, not just one meaning like NO. lol...

Star Spirit	07 Apr 2004
Sorry to hear about that yve. Although unlike some of you, I might have kept the money and told them to screw off :D I mean, they asked for it.

contrascarpe	07 Apr 2004
yve, first of all, I give you credit for doing paid readings. I have not advance that far yet. I guess I learned a lesson from this as well - if it comes up I will try to keep my cool...... and keep their money! Maybe temper it with humor by saying "aha, the last card makes it clear ..... a fool and his money are easily parted". Keep the faith my friend. Dan

Phoenyx*	07 Apr 2004
Right now I'm so unsure of myself, I couldn't handle something like that.

WalesWoman	07 Apr 2004
Yve, I hope this experience hasn't bothered you too much. A woman I know cuts the deck before even asking a question when someone wants a reading and lets the Tarot decide if she should do this reading or not by what card is revealed. I'm not exactly sure what her parameters are in what she views as a negative card for "Not today" or positive "Go ahead", but it might be a good idea. Then she does it again before the reading to see what sort of message the cards are going to give, if the person really has no idea what they want to ask and just want a general reading. Don't ask...it's her system and I decided not to question it. I wish I could learn more from her, but she's sort of secretive about it and I haven't felt like I should persue this avenue. I read something where a reader would use the querant's birthdate and current year to find out where they were at emotionally, mentally, sort of a root of their intentions, a clue to why they were asking in the first place, similar to the Tarot Cycle Year but different. I have no idea how that would work and I haven't found reference to this anywhere else. I can't even remember what this person called it, some sort of Querant Factor (?), but it might help sniff out the rats. Maybe someone else knows about this or has heard of it. It sounded very interesting. I probably would have returned her money and kicked myself later for being a fool to have done so. You answered her questions and responded correctly, it wasn't as if you advertised yourself some sort of psychic with a crystal ball that see's all or anything. Next time, if something like that would happen again, don't give the $ back. You held up your end of the deal after all and from what I've seen of your readings, did a great job of it too.

Mojo	07 Apr 2004
This happens from time to time, especially like Umbrae said at fairs or other public events. I don't give them their money back. I don't apologize and I don't explain. If they're nasty about it, I'll give them my best intimidating stare and mutter in a nasty tone, "se non é beno, é ben trovato!" while flicking my fingers at them, which usually makes them think I've placed a curse on them and sends them running. Of course, the joke is on them because it translates into "even if it isn't true, it's a wonderful lie."

eastarot	07 Apr 2004
I understand how you feel. Trust me, not all clients are like that. The first time I had this kind of experience was last year. A married woman came to me asking me about her future with her lover. Incidentally, she was a gynaecologist, and the lover was her patient's husband. By the way she was sizing me up, I could tell she didnt think too highly of people from the 'alternative' field and I remember answereing a few questions about Reiki etc. Well, the cards which she drew were to the effect of the Devil, 5 of Cups and 9 of Swords. And I told her what they meant. She flew into a rage. That's when I learnt some people pay to hear what they want to hear. she called me all sorts of things. I remember getting up, telling her she neednt believe the cards. I walked to the door and opened it - nonverbal gesture for "OUT" I was shaking too for a while after that, nearly gave up reading the Tarot. But in retrospect, I think it's given me a fair idea of the kind of clients there are. And like I said, not everybody is like this. Most of my clients are very nice people. Hang in there ok? PS - I didnt return her money. I charge for my time. And so did you. Never undervalue yourself.

DarkElectric	07 Apr 2004
Hi Yve, This precise phenom hasn't occurred in my reading career yet, but something similar has, I guess. About a month ago, a client was sent to me by a friend who runs a small store. They don't have an in house reader, but recommend me ( which is very nice!). I read for the girl,who started out by giving me some long, drawn out background...basically, she was telling me her life story, which did give some insight, but wasn't as helpful as she thought it would be. She asked me to give her a "General" reading, but was specifically concerned with her husband, who was serving a minor sentence, and her daughter, who was encountering difficulty in school, due to her beligerent, aggressive behaviour. I did the reading, the cards all pointed to problems with the daughter. I told the girl what I saw. There was not a whole lot about the husband in it. A little, but not that much. The spread indicated that there was going to be some major trouble with the kid, school authorities, and it was going to be happening soon. For some reason I got a strong feeling about the school cafeteria, and told her this. I also told her that it wouldn't necessarily happen in there, but I did see a situation. I got a mental picture of some girls at a table in a school cafeteria, talking about the daughter, maybe an argument starting. Anyway, I gave her a lot of time, seeing as how she really seemed to need some comfort. I did the best I could. The spread also indicated that she was not telling me the truth about certain important details, specifically about hubby's incarceration, and that she was in denial about certain aspects of the daughter's anger issues. I didn't feel was it was necessary to divulge this. I could tell that she would have taken extreme offence at any suggestion that she was anything less than the perfect martyr, and discretion is the better part of valour. She thanked me, paid me, said it was a great reading, and left. I happened to be in the store earlier this week, and mentioned the girl to the woman who had recommended me. "Oh!" she exclaimed. "I saw her last week. She said you were so wrong." I was dumbfounded. "What did she say about it?" I stuttered out. "She said it didn't happen in the cafeteria." Said my friend. "What?" I said. "Did she tell you what happened?" "Yes" replied my friend. "Her daughter was expelled from school because she got caught stealing, and beating someone up. But it didn't happen in the cafeteria." I'm glad I kept the money.

Chronata	07 Apr 2004
Oh Yve. I am really sorry that this has happened, but I suppose it is a learning experience....and now you are prepared in case it should happen again. This type of thing has happened to me twice. Once, very early in my professional reading career, where a man told me that I was wrong about everything, and told me, rather belligerantly, that he was not a belligerant person,(as I had seen in the cards) and that I couldn't possibly know anything about him, having just met him. The way I saw it...I was right, he was in denial, and I told him that if he didn't like the reading, he didn't have to pay. He threw a dollar at me and stalked angrily off. a friend of his who was watching appologised for him, and said I was very accurate. He ended up giving me the full amount of his friends reading as a tip for the reading I did for him. the last time it happened was recently at a psychic fair. The woman asked me questions about how many children she was going to have in the future. I told her I saw two children around her. Then she got nasty, and told me that she couldn't have any more children, so I was not very psychic. She then sat there denying everything else I said. But she paid me, reluctantly, and told everyone in earshot that I wasn't very good. Her boyfriend informed me that she was having her own problems, and it had nothing to do with me. (she actually had two children...which is what I had said I had seen around her.) I would not have given this woman's money back...simply because she took up 20 minutes of my time that I could have spent on another client. At this point in my readings, I don't think I would give anyone money back who came to me knowing what to expect...or came to me only to be nasty and to disrespect me and my profession. I figure the $5 or $10 or $20 they give to me is extremely reasonable anyway...and certainly I should be paid more than that to take someone's misplaced abuse, anger, or humiliation. Next time, don't offer them thier money back.

miss_apples	08 Apr 2004
(((YVE))) Just because you didnt see her marriage did not mean that your reading was wrong. Even though she is married Im sure shes had lovers before her husband and theres always a possibility she may cross paths with them again. Her marriage doesnt really have anything to do with the fact that shes had past lovers that she may think about occasionally. It really shows how uninformed people are that they dont realize that not all of us tarot readers are psychic...in fact...most of us probably arent psychic. I think thats what I wouldve done. I wouldve said "Im sorry but you didnt ask about your marriage, you asked about your past lovers, I gave you the info that you asked for and the cards did not bring that up, I could do a reading regarding your marriage if you wish me to do so"

Umbrae	08 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by WalesWoman I read something where a reader would use the querent’s birth date and current year to find out where they were at emotionally, mentally, sort of a root of their intentions, a clue to why they were asking in the first place, similar to the Tarot Cycle Year but different. I have no idea how that would work and I haven't found reference to this anywhere else. I can't even remember what this person called it, some sort of Querent Factor (?), but it might help sniff out the rats. Maybe someone else knows about this or has heard of it. It sounded very interesting. Somewhere in this series of articles is the reference to ‘Year Cycles’ that you were asking about. I hate to admit it, but I actually agree with that Dan Pelletier (pretentious amoureux heureux d'écureuil) guy in using year cycles. Once you learn to use them, it helps a lot to spot incongruities. Especially when their cycle is pointing one direction, the cards are pointing to the same direction and they are talking about something completely different. I also love clients who want to do their own reading, and then condemn you for being wrong – when all you did was ask them to shuffle…

yve	08 Apr 2004
Thanks for all of your words, it is comforting to have such support...the funny thing is that I did get a negative sense about her after her first couple of questions, but I just couldn't place the source of my uncomfortable feeling...as well, the cards did inadvertently point to her marriage (although when she said made that comment to me it was kind of a shock and I didn't see it) by telling her that she had love and everything she wanted right under her nose, she just couldn't see it because she had blinders on....If hindsight was foresight...it will be a learning experience.....Umbrae,Wales Woman, it is a good suggestion about year cycles and numerology, but I don't know if I could manage numerology on top of the Tarot...maybe in the future....Mojo, I like that comment, I'm going to memorize that one!...Tmgrl2, that is a good suggestion, I should have said that after the first couple of questions....Hmmm, makes me think I should charge more to discourage such people, as my fee was so small, she was willing to pay to try to humiliate me!

tmgrl2	08 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Hey it happens; especially at ‘psychic fairs’ where folks go to ‘expose the fakes’ for their friends. In time, with enough readings under your belt, you will begin to smell a rat (or other rodent). Sometimes the cards will tell you that they are a rodent in training, but you have to be listening to the cards – retain some flexibility in possibilities. Remember, the cards will tell you what you need to know – don’t keep drawing cards – the answer is right there in front of you – but the answer they give, may not be what you expect… zorya reminds us, “If we are too attached to a perceived outcome, we may miss opportunities, or what is truly meant for us”. Don’t keep drawing cards. A three card spread consists of three cards – clarifying cards obfuscate the issue. This is true for the reader as well. I do wish you could post the reading. So keep reading, you’ll learn to spot the jerks, and your readings for them will be just fine...keep the money. Good advice, as always, Umbrae...as are others...When I feel stronger about it...I agree with you about doing the reading, but changing what you say based on what you get in the cards for that person....I agree too...if it's a three card reading...so be it... It would be interesting if yve could post the reading...that's what I love about AT...the feedback we get...and sometimes offering the reading up for another view.... ty...terri Just curious, Umbrae....and others...and maybe this is another thread...but I tend to find out a bit about what people think Tarot does and is before I read...I am new but surprised at what I hear...then I help them formulate a question...don't know if this is good...but in past, it has helped me with my other work...

contrascarpe	08 Apr 2004
This thread brings up something I have been wondering about lately ...... I firmly believe that Tarot is a mixture of intuition and common sense and sometimes a touch of the psychic thrown in. I also believe that we all have psychic capabilities but it lies dormant in most. However, even though I hold that belief system, I also subscribe to the thought that Tarot is more of a psychological tool - a device which helps provide some insight into some issue which may be affecting a person. The cards open that portal and the reader, using the cards as that tool, helps the querent understand themselves a little bit more. That being said, I often think about what is going to happen to me when I finally read for the general public. Depending on the environment (clients in metaphysical shops are more learned about the Tarot on the whole than ones at psychic or renaissance fairs) should I tactfully find out first what the querent expects out of a reading? Maybe if I squash out any preconceived notions that they look at me as someone who is going to tell them what will happen in their future, I will avoid needless confrontation. And maybe I am missing something altogether ...... maybe there is a fine line between providing insight and actually divining one's future. Any thoughts? Dan

Umbrae	08 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 I firmly believe that Tarot is a mixture of intuition and common sense and sometimes a touch of the psychic thrown in. Yup…I agree. Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 …should I tactfully find out first what the querent expects out of a reading? When you find out what they expect, you will find out why they come to have the cards read; and more importantly why they come to you (and not me or the other woman over there), and then…you really need to figure out Why do you read. I’m not talking the knee-slap reactive answer “I read because I like to share blah blah blah”, I’m talking about why do you read…it should take years for an answer to develop. It’s all related, their expectations, your expectations, their why’s and your why’s… Also don’t assume that a client in one venue is more informed than another – you’d be in for a rather rude wake up call. There are a thousand people out there with one goal – to smash your dreams. You know them from the office, the back-stabber politic playing folks that always act warm and smile as they slip a knife twixt thy ribs. Take their money, smile…listen to the cards – utilize ‘flash’ recognition if available…don’t let them take control of the reading – rapport is paramount – fail here and you may as well hang it up – you’re not a reader (but it’s a learned thing so keep at it). and read. Small spreads. Go out into the public and do your first live reading from a Keltic Kross for a stranger and you will have your testicles handed to you. Don't have any? Guess again... Never ever allow the sitter to take control of the reading. Never sweat. Never react. You are nothing. A conduit perhaps. On a good day...

contrascarpe	08 Apr 2004
Umbrae - Thank you for your goals. I agree with you 100%. I envision my readings to be a "give and take" situation. I assume that I will see a card and need some clarification in order to give a more detailed reading ....... and also know that there will be the odd person who says "you're the psychic, you tell me." At that point I will know where I stand, lol. Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Also don’t assume that a client in one venue is more informed than another – you’d be in for a rather rude wake up call. Although I agree, I was only speaking of generalizations in terms of clientele in metaphysical shops vs. fairs. These have been my observations from hanging out at both. In the shops, I see and hear stories of "repeat customers" for particular readers. These are the seekers who I know are serious (and deserve the moniker of "seeker"). At fairs you get a mix of the serious and the novice and you can usually tell the difference. I was in Salem, Mass last October during their festival and happened to be there the day they had the street fair ...... soooooo many people turned out to the local shops for readings and it was actually more fun to hear these people mulling around the shop waiting their turn and hearing their views on tarot as they awaited their turn. One woman in particular was precious but that is another story for another time, lol. Dan

ncefafn	08 Apr 2004
[edited by poster]

tmgrl2	08 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo This happens from time to time, especially like Umbrae said at fairs or other public events. I don't give them their money back. I don't apologize and I don't explain. If they're nasty about it, I'll give them my best intimidating stare and mutter in a nasty tone, "se non é beno, é ben trovato!" while flicking my fingers at them, which usually makes them think I've placed a curse on them and sends them running. Of course, the joke is on them because it translates into "even if it isn't true, it's a wonderful lie." What a great expression! going to keep handy... terri

tmgrl2	08 Apr 2004
Umbrae...you are right...Why do I read? Why does anyone? With that...best not to try to guess the myriads of reasons as to why any given individual comes to you...good advice...read, be the reader, don't sweat, stay in control, take the money, say "Thank you" and "Good-bye" There are so many possible outcomes from a reading that we may think has "gone south" and they are not all bad outcomes. We really aren't doing it for getting a "warm fuzzy" response. We should do what we do without expectation of an outcome/response from the querent...we'll most often never know anyhow... The beauty of AT is that it offers a forum for growth within the community via feedback, learning, sharing.... and, I know...shuffle, shuffle, shuffle so the new decks don't fall down in a mess in front of me.... terri

SongDeva	08 Apr 2004
Umbrae, Will you marry me? You say some really cool things. A lot of it I like, though I don't necessarily agree with everything, but it's all fascinating, and I agree with just enough so that we'd never be a boring pair. Sd

Kosmos	08 Apr 2004
Umbrae, thanks for your posts in this thread, you're right on with the wisdom you spew. So far I've only read for friends and family, but I think that if I was faced with this situation I would remain totally calm and ask the person if they wished to have a discussion. If they agreed, I would validate their doubt by discussing the misconceptions of tarot cards and readers that they were likely buying into when they decided to attack you. Then I would discuss what the ink and paper cards really were and that the reason they 'exposed' me had nothing to do with the abilities of the cards, but with the fact that as a human being I trusted what they had told me... At this point I would explain that if their goal was actually to prove that they could be a manipulative/lying person, that they had indeed succeeded, but that if they continued to prove this to people they would find themselves more and more isolated. If they still didn't understand and insisted on walking away believing that the cards had no 'magickal powers' and that I wasn't a psychic (both of which are true in a way) I would wish them as much luck and happiness as they could fit in the little tiny box they choose to live in. Oh, and I would definitely refrain from appearing defensive in any way. Talk slowly and make like it really doesn't matter to you what they've 'proven' to themselves. Once you enter a fight, you've lost.

Macavity	08 Apr 2004
What's your refund policy for "Gangs of inebriated Hell's Angels"? Please be consistent in your answers! j/k }) The initial situation was unpleasant and doubtless uncalled for. Perhaps an (informal/prior) "service level agreement" is the key? (Many, myself included, wince at THESE very words!) But what did the querent expect? Can the reader provide this? ...And particularly if it looks like being a major issue. I guess ultimately to strive for consistency... I thought I would refer to Mr. Crowley (BOT) on this matter. He says: "Tell the querent what he has come for: if wrong, abandon the divination!" It was something that had vaguely stuck in my mind... :D Macavity

Nevada	08 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by miss_apples Just because you didnt see her marriage did not mean that your reading was wrong. Even though she is married Im sure shes had lovers before her husband and theres always a possibility she may cross paths with them again. Her marriage doesnt really have anything to do with the fact that shes had past lovers that she may think about occasionally. Or people in her life now with whom she could take up a relationship, married or not, and possibly even marry that (new) person eventually. This happens all the time. I wish I felt right saying I would've kept the money after she'd wasted my time that way. But more important is your self-respect, which she tried to crush. You did the right thing. Nevada

Ivy Rhiannon	09 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by SongDeva Next time keep her money; otherwise she'll keep doing this, since it doesn't cost her anything! People come into our lives to teach us something...what did she bring up for you in terms of how you view your abilities? I completely agree! As professional readers we often question our abilities, and sometimes we lose our confidence. You were absolutly right about the question being asked. That's what she asked, that's the focus of the reading! Don't let this client bring you down or make you question yourself... Test or no test, she's not worth the aggrivation. Ignorance is blind, thank goddess it's not contiagous! Saw on a bumper sticker... "The more people I meet, the more I like my cat..."

Mojo	09 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 What a great expression! going to keep handy... Yeah, it's my favorite saying. I got it from my old Sicilian Grandfather who was quite the story-teller (that's obviously where I got it from). He added that quote in his beautiful flowing Italian at the end of every story he told.

tmgrl2	09 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo Yeah, it's my favorite saying. I got it from my old Sicilian Grandfather who was quite the story-teller (that's obviously where I got it from). He added that quote in his beautiful flowing Italian at the end of every story he told. My husband is Sicilian...I didn't say it to him yet....will try my fractured Sicilian...There is another old Sicilian saying:" Better to raise pigs than kids, at least you can eat the pigs." Needless to say our kids keep buying us pigs...this is a bit off-topic ...but to go back on...It's a wonderful way to "get back"some control and be in charge when we get thrown off kilter...I use it with my children at school ( not this saying...) but humor, general...or I say something in another language and they all just stop whatever was happening...and we are back on track.... I just edited this....I realized I said eat the "kids" not eat the "pigs"...whoops.....terri terri

HudsonGray	10 Apr 2004
He ate kids?

ncefafn	10 Apr 2004
Man, I heard Sicilians were tough, but I had no idea! Kim

Imagemaker	10 Apr 2004
Are those the baby goat kind of kids?

tmgrl2	10 Apr 2004
No....It's a real saying....the children kind of kids...I think it was one of those expressions that went flying when children proved exasperating as they can at times! But it's all in good fun.... Now we have at least a hundred pigs...it has come back home to roost, ...er, root....we have pigs in front of our house, on the floor in the living room, stuffed pigs, tiny pig statues..the children and grandchildren buy them wherever they go...pig cards... HELP! terri See what a little humor did here....works every time. Take the money and run...

tmgrl2	11 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 My husband is Sicilian...I didn't say it to him yet....will try my fractured Sicilian...There is another old Sicilian saying:" Better to raise pigs than kids, at least you can eat the pigs." Needless to say our kids keep buying us pigs...this is a bit off-topic ...but to go back on...It's a wonderful way to "get back"some control and be in charge when we get thrown off kilter...I use it with my children at school ( not this saying...) but humor, general...or I say something in another language and they all just stop whatever was happening...and we are back on track.... I just edited this....I realized I said eat the "kids" not eat the "pigs"...whoops.....terri terri Edit...Edit....this morning at Church...I realized I had typed "eat the kids." not "eat the pigs." No wonder I got all those weird reply posts about goats.... terri

Savoyali	11 Apr 2004
Freudian slip, maybe, tmgrl2? :P:laugh:

tmgrl2	11 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Savoyali Freudian slip, maybe, tmgrl2? :P:laugh: That's the first thing that came to my mind....some days, yes, definitely, a Freudian slip! Most days ...no....I couldn't stop thinking in church about people thinking the Sicilians eat their kids! terri

Phoenyx*	11 Apr 2004
LOL, oh that was funny terri!

Emiac	14 Apr 2004
You're all going to clonk me for this, but I'll say it anyway. If you charge people for your readings, you should expect to get idiots like that. I once, thought of 'testing' another reader too, not to humiliate anyone in any way, but to see if they really have got what it takes. Wouldn't a professional be informed in the cards that the questioner was a fakee? ____________________________________________________ Ok, so did you think about this- maybe the reading was SUPER accurate & the woman thought 'oh damn, this is gonna cost a bomb' & said all of that on purpose knowing that he'll return the money, what if she's done that to other readers? Maybe she's an expert scammer who goes around doing that all day.

ncefafn	14 Apr 2004
Let me be the first "clonker" ;) I read for free on the Free Tarot Network, and I get goofy questions all the time. Usually it's people who only want to hear what they want to hear. The skeptics (and I know I've read for them) never write me back and tell me what a moron I am. Which is not to say I'm not a moron. :)

contrascarpe	14 Apr 2004
I'm going to clonk away as well ...... as a reader I would never test someone in that regards. Out of common courtesy I would probably try to help a reader if they are not doing well, assuming the reader is receptive to that. If I were to read for someone and they came to "test" me, I would not appreciate it too much - in fact, I would find the act somewhat obnoxious. In Yve's case, it was obvious she encountered the typical person who believes any divination is a scam and was trying to prove a point.

TemperanceAngel	15 Apr 2004
I have never been humilated, but I have had people nearly make me cry. That's happened twice! XTAX

mac22	23 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 yve...Hi Just posted something on another thread recently addressing this kind of person: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24396&perpage=10&highlight=Why%20do%20we%20read%20tarot&pagenumber=7 This woman was paying to "test" you, not paying for a reading.... You did what I would have...given her money back and said "Bye".....A psychic I worked with many years ago refused to read for people...once they came to see him and posed questions and he spent a couple of minutes with them...he said, "I'm sorry I can't read for you...I'm sensing what I have to offer is not why you are here to see me..." He used to charge and get $100 a session in the late seventies...he was quite good and well-known in the Florida area...and nationally, when he was on TV...wrote a book called The Rainbow Oracle...Tony Grosso.. That was my model for sensing when I wouldn't read for people. I am just learning Tarot, but even now, when I sense my friends or family aren't serious or are looking for something that Tarot ISN'T I just say..."not now," or "Maybe one day when I'm more versed in Tarot." Sorry you went through that...it's a very upsetting experience...but the problem was hers...not yours....constructive interaction is different from "Gotcha!" terri There are those who consider it SPORT to tease readers & psychics. I deal with this in 2 ways 1) my fee is high enough to stop those seeking a "cheap thrill" 2)I have a pretty good BS detector I will decline to do readings. If I do get a rude person I return their money and send them on their way.

mac22	23 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by SongDeva Alternatively, hit them in the head with some of Umbrae's cast-off LWB's....they can give nasty papercuts if used correctly. ROTFL!!!...:)

Frequency	24 Apr 2004
I've been going to cegep at Dawson college. Those of you who have read my posts when I was very depressed know this is a big accomplishment espescialy considering I am no longer on medication, so message to anyone that is suffering from depression it can go away... anyway on to my story... 'We' formed a club for all things falling under paganism. We recognize that paganism is a loose term but we interpret it as the definition that self described pagans use, that is a group of religions which have a "range of spiritual paths which are Earth centered -- involving their members living in harmony with the Earth and observing its cycles" ( http://www.religioustolerance.org ). They know I'm Satanist and all of them are familiar with it and they have no problem with it. They actualy have a lot of respect for it even though they don't agree with all of it's practices and most of them have read up on it. I felt really comfortable because they made me feel welcomed and I was happy because I got to meet other people that did tarot and other magic. Two weeks ago Jason, Shannon and I all did fortune telling and we made $90 (a dollar a reading and we were there from about 9:00am to 4:30pm) with the divination alone, between three people. We had someone come up to us and annoy us, but amazingly it was the only problem all day long, everyone else was leaving Jason often in tears because he's so good with his cards and we were proving to the entire school that it works. Shannon and I were weren't doing too well but this would change next week (still accurate just not as accurate as I am used to). Now we think everyone is even more afraid of Jason than they were before (he has long blond hair and wears his big leather trench coat everywhere with a pentagram necklace, he even freaked ME out), lol. That day when I was done and went to class for a short bit to do a test this muslim girl asked me to do tarot for her. Seeing as how as she was wearing the traditonal clothing etc I doubted she was sincere about it. I talk to someone that is Palestinian (living in Canada) and from what I understand they consider it evil, he doesn't but he's a fairly open minded person (he likes Norwegian black metal, nuff said). I was friends with a couple muslim girls in high school. I've had good experiences with muslim people since this incident and I don't have any negative feelings towards them. I just found it odd that a muslim girl would approach me for tarot. She asked me about whether or not she would get a job this summer and she told me she didn't have one. Well then she smirked at me after the reading and told me she had a job. I was in class waiting for the teacher to arrive so this is espescialy tragic in that she tried to redicule me in front of the rest of the class, on purpose. I felt I had to explain what happened so I raised my voice a bit after waiting for her to walk back to her desk and said aloud so the rest of the class could hear me and I said "You know it's hard to be accurate when someone lies to me". They didn't care but the rest of the class understood I think but maybe the retards in the class that taunted me about wearing a Devil Doll shirt (they dont even know what Devil Doll is) didnt but I don't care about them. I figure if they're going to make fun of the greatest progressive rock act of the 90s and the most succesful cult phenomenon Europe has ever seen with a band, I don't need to pay attention to them. It's their loss not mine. The fan club exploded with 2000 members joining it in the past four years adding to the previous figure in 1997 of 4000 after nearly a decade atleast I can be thankful they'll never join because they certainly would never understand the challenge Devil Doll has made to the entire music industry. It made me really angry and I could feel myself shaking. I felt absolutely compelled to ritualize so I did it in the middle of class, silently in my head, thinking of all the things I would do to her if I could and hoping she would break her limbs etc... I just totaly zoned out into a trance of some kind for the next half hour as he went over the test, then I very nearly aced it. I have no idea if anything happened to her and I don't care you don't redicule me when it's torture for me to sit in a crowded class with people all around me. If you do that you deserve any broken limbs you get as a result from the ritual I practiced. I was disapointed I got caught feeling this way in class. I need to find a way to wait until I get home until I start feeling angry and upset and then when the ritual is finished to make it finished by not feeling angry anymore. That's the whole point in the first place. I obviously need more practice. She hasn't bothered me since then and I don't feel uncomfortable in class so I guess it did it's job. We did another thing on Tuesday only this time it was our official fundraiser (the other thing was more of an awareness day) and we made $120 this time. I was much better with my tarot. Everyone was asking about their love lifes but atleast I know they were sincere and each one of them was impressed with me. The one person that got angry with me is in a deteriorating relationship (after doing over a hundred it becomes almost like a science) with one of the club members. She came to me expecting me to tell her things were going well hence the anger when I reinforced her own knowledge that indeed it was not. The only other problem came when one of the aformentioned morons that made fun of my Devil Doll shirt came up to me and asked if les Canadiens would win the Stanley this year. I told him I only did personal questions and I wouldn't do it. He argued with me and told me it is personal because he cares about the home team like a smart ass and I turned him down again, politely. I just said it wasn't the kind of question I did and apologised and told him it had to be relating to his own life or someone else's that he cares for and knows personaly and told him if one of the other people will do it for him he can ask them but it's not something I do. The staff at school is extremely impressed with our young club so far. We pulled together at the very end of the semester and we're rushing to get things done so we get a club room for next year. They didn't think we would be able to do it and they told us not to try but we did anyway. We're spreading awareness throughout the school about Pagan religions, even Satanism. In fact a member of the Church of Satan spoke to me one day after showing me his official membership card (a nice little campy red card I have yet to send away for) and he seemed to be pleased aswell. People in the Church of Satan know what's been going on and they already asked me to send them an email of a copy of what I wrote about Satanism for the club and I guess they were satisfied because they didn't write back yet complaining that I wasn't giving people a good impression lol. They're very touchy about what people say about them and it's a reasonable concern if I'm going to be responsible to the entire school about portraying a religion properly all by myself. The student newspaper did an article on 'the corner' recently. That's where all the metalheads and pagans (ie: rebels and outcasts) spend their time. They plug in an amplifier to the wall and jam on a guitar. They're notorious for the noise they make and the weird stuff that happens there. There's a rumor that someone taped a cookie to the wall there and one of the people from the corner found it and ate it, and it's completely true. Another rumour tries to explain how a gaping hole manifested itself in the wall, and the story goes one guy from the corner ran into it headfirst, on purpose, and that is also true. I think I'm a little out of control right now myself with this post so I'll end my stories here. Just been an exciting past few weeks. I find that it's very rare people have problems, and when people ask me about their love life I always explain to them that the tarot is beneficial for any question you have and is a great tool for meditation, and I told them it is easy to learn and there are many different decks. I gave a few people the address to this website when they expressed interest in buying their own deck. I hope they visited.

Marion	24 Apr 2004
Hi frequency, Visualizing hurting people, as you visualized the Muslim girl having broken legs, will not be of much help in your spiritual development. Life is certainly not all fuzzy bunnies, I'd be the first to admit that. And people will act in thoughtless and even mean-spirited ways towards you from time to time. I am happy to hear that you have made so much progress and realize it has been a difficult time for you and that you have persevered and are making huge progress. And good for you, too. What I am thinking is that negative thoughts will more tend to harm than help that progress. Negative thoughts give you a burst of energy (adrenaline) at the moment but they set off a chain reaction within you causing them to repeat and repeat. Negative emotions are almost more addictive than positive ones. I am speaking from powerful experience.

WalesWoman	26 Apr 2004
Frequency, I've got to agree with Marion. This person did not physically harm you, "sticks and stones...", wishing harm on someone, by whatever means, will only come back to you in greater measure. She proved nothing, except how to find your weakness, Pride. Overreaction to her baiting you is what set the whole episode off, I'm sure it was very frustrating and embarassing. Don't get mad, don't get even, don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they "got" to you by causing you to lose control of your cool. Instead keep in mind that those who do this are limiting themselves and creating their own karma. As my grandma used to tell me, "Kill them with kindness." It really bugs people who are being rotten to you, when you stay sweet and kind to them, no matter what. Power is not about inspiring fear, that is abusing it and it really is detrimental for you, your group and what you are trying to accomplish I think. Peace,

The Ever had a client humiliate you???? thread was originally posted on 07 Apr 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.