Tarot and Evil

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Moongold	24 Apr 2004
Can Tarot be used for evil purposes? This question occurred to me early this morning when I was thinking about why we read Tarot , how Tarot works and all those wonderful questions. I was also contemplating the capital punishment thread and thinking of crime generally. I wish angels would come to visit me at night, rather than these questions :) Picture Tarot in the hands of someone plotting a terrible crime. Imagine that person asking the Tarot what he needed to know about the most likely way to succeed. What kind of answer would he get? Can the Tarot be used for negative or evil purposes?

Diana	24 Apr 2004
The Tarot answers all our questions. Whatever they are. (For those who are wondering what Moongold means by the Capital Punishment thread... it is in the Chat forum which is a subscriber-only forum. We have parties over there and have lots of fun... but sometimes we discuss more serious issues.)

ros	24 Apr 2004
I think Tarot is used for any kind of purpose & it depends who is using it. Does the Tarot answer to anyone who talks to the cards? I think YES because it is not the cards it is the user. I really don't know, just some ideas.

HudsonGray	24 Apr 2004
Good question. Can tarot be used for evil? Can duct tape be used for evil? Can a block of ice be used for evil? Yes, probably. They're only tools, and what tools do are what we make of them.

tmgrl2	24 Apr 2004
yes....

Moongold	24 Apr 2004
Some of us say that for us Tarot is a window to the Divine. I don’t think we often say what the Divine is, probably because we can’t.. In considering the question of Tarot and evil, I was thinking that most of us presuppose good intent when we read, and that good intent would be based on our own moral system. There are many people out there with different moral systems which are quite the opposite of ours, and they have integrity in that. Who decides what is evil and not evil? And how would that message be conveyed through Tarot? For instance, I work in the drug area and know of people involved in the informal drug economy which is very powerful indeed and which works on the basis that the social structure which we take for granted is very wrong. They take no regard of it at all but they have their own quite strong ethical code. This area of “criminology” has been well researched in Australia and possible elsewhere. If one of these people were to do a Tarot reading on what he needed to know to be successful, what would it tell him? This is a rhetorical question. Who speaks to us through Tarot? Is it the Divine and what is the Divine? Does the Divine include the Collective Unconscious which would, in turn, shelter the most horrific human knowledge. And would it be this that my imaginary drug trafficking Tarot reader would tap into if he read the cards on his prospects? Do you see what I am getting at? It is not an idle question.

Diana	24 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold Some of us say that for us Tarot is a window to the Divine. That's because we do divination with it. Quote: In considering the question of Tarot and evil, I was thinking that most of us presuppose good intent when we read, and that good intent would be based on our own moral system. There are many people out there with different moral systems which are quite the opposite of ours, and they have integrity in that. Who decides what is evil and not evil? And how would that message be conveyed through Tarot? There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. Quote: The question of who speaks to us through Tarot has been discussed many times. Everyone has their own theory. Some people think it's angels, some people think it's guides, some people think it's their own knowledge which is hiding in their consciousness just waiting to come out, some people think it's Gremlins. Your drug trafficking Tarot reader would be able to tap into whatever makes Tarot work, just like anyone else. For him, he's just doing a job... earning his money.... and trying to find the best way to do it.

DeLani	24 Apr 2004
First off, let's not automatically put "drug trafficking" in with evil. Unless we include someone who runs a liquor store as well and make our definition of evil extremely broad. Most of the "drug traffickers" in my country at least, are simple farmers & merchants who are growing or selling the one crop that is worth its weight in gold, thanks to prohibition. They aren't hurting anyone, and are providing a good that is in demand - a mild euphoric herb which has less negative side effects than any legal mind-altering substance. But anyway, on to the original question. If someone is truly evil, that is, intent on harming others, I don't think the Tarot would help them get away with it. While they could certainly ask, and get an answer, I believe that in the end, at the heart of it, the Tarot is for self-improvement and growth. I believe the Tarot would lead such an individual towards either giving up the desire to harm others, or to seeking help for their problem, or else to getting caught, or perhaps to another form of Karmic justice. Of course, this is just a theory, and I could be wrong. Until a successful serial killer or rapist who has used Tarot to get away with it chimes in, we won't know.

Moongold	24 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by DeLani First off, let's not automatically put "drug trafficking" in with evil. Unless we include someone who runs a liquor store as well and make our definition of evil extremely broad. Most of the "drug traffickers" in my country at least, are simple farmers & merchants who are growing or selling the one crop that is worth its weight in gold, thanks to prohibition. They aren't hurting anyone, and are providing a good that is in demand - a mild euphoric herb which has less negative side effects than any legal mind-altering substance. Good point. I was referring to heroin, which is still illegal here. And I guess my view that trafficking in this drug is evil is a purely personal one. As you would probably be aware, it is the criminality which ultimately cause the "evil". If the drugs were not illegal the criminality would decrease By evil I mean cutting the drugs with dangerous substances, cynically manipulating the market and cashing in so coldly on people's desperation. I do get angry with this and consider it evil but that is not the point here. I don't want to divert the thread, just explain my comment :)

Cerulean	24 Apr 2004
but it has had very negative associations in some areas of the U.S., and they involved rather bad crimes. Strangely, these were evil acts by people who don't seem to have practised with the tarot, so it may not be related to your question--or it may be related to cite examples of how evil can be associated with the tarot. 1. One was finding ways to cheat people out of their money by offering 'tarot' readings with a commericial 'psychic' who was a paid actress doing info-mercials. The actress was paid a fee to do some commercials, she was given a low fee supposedly compared to the money collected by those charged with a scam. Tarotpassages has a link. http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2002-01-03/feature.html/1/index.html 2. The other was heard about rather widely a few years ago in the U.S.--random, horrible shootings and deaths. The people who were the criminals planted cards at the scene to throw suspicions elsewhere---no associations with card hobbyists were found. They are now called correctly "the beltway snipers" but this old link with that bad title shows you it was a common term for awhile http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa-sniper.htm I'm very sorry these things happened. They gave recent impressions of bad things with tarot that wiped out many years of good teachers and writers and artists...people trying to gain a small exchange for the work they do in trying to find good associations with the tarot. I hope that is related to your question--take care. Sincerely, Cerulean Mari

Moongold	24 Apr 2004
Cerulean, thanks for these examples. I did know about them. In direct sense, it would be relative to what I am thinking if the people behind the Ms Cleo affair had used the Tarot to help them devise their scam, or if the two gunmen had used the Tarot to plan their killing. I don't know whether that actually happened.

closrapexa	24 Apr 2004
OK, so there are several viws on this subject, and it is in interesting subject. Well, my opinion is that it cannot be used for evil purposes, and there are several reasons for this: !) Like a black belt in karate reading Tarot entails a certain amount of discipline. Some one who can kill a man with his bare hands know that he has to think twice and three times before doing so. Same with Tarot. Reading entails much more than telling the querent what the cards mean, it means getting in touch with yourself, your inner being. And your consience. And you gain new understanding about yourself and the processes which make you tick, in essence. 2) Tarot is not, cannot and should not be a fail-safe oracle that answers questions. For example, sometime the cards tell us what was, or might have been or should have been. Yes, we can control it up to a point, but after that it is like throwing lots. If a burglar has a reading to see if he should rob a bank, then they may tell him that he shouldn't rob the bank, because he'll spend the rest of his life on the run. Or they may tell him that robbing will be detrimental to his mental well being. OR, they may tell him that if he perservers, leaves his former life behind and teams up with Al Capone he will succeed in getting what he wishes for. The Tarot could be used for evil if the reader himself tell the querent things that are beneficial to the reader, for instance, "leave so and so and marry me". But then that is just fraud, and putting the querent in a situation akin to that of therapists sleeping with their patients. The querent may not be in a position to resist the intentions of the reader, since he can't always know what the cards are "telling" him and where the reader starts manipulating him. In short, its all a question of ethics, either you have them, or you don't. but I've never seen a reading that gave me the combination to the bank vaults. :) But then, maybe there are situations I haven't thought of in this barage.

ros	24 Apr 2004
Some people I feel are just evil so the only way they would understand the Tarot would be in a spun way. It may be spun or different to us but the them it is normal. If evil people use the Tarot for information they are not doing anything different than we are. They are looking for answers only in a different way. And what about the Thoth? Would this subject fit in here? (I'm just posting for different ideas)

Cerulean	24 Apr 2004
the elderly Crowley-Harris connection from these very English remainders of the Golden Dawn during World War II was about hope and continuation in the face of evil times. The Duquette book seems to suggest that the deck and writings were made to preserve Crowley's work and Frieda Harris's payment to Crowley for his expertise helped keep him comfortable in his declining years. Of course, what I see is dated opinions about the art in my humble opinion in looking at the deck, but I've probably needing to read more and not associate it with my historical slants. Sorry, I seem to be one of those who like to just keep tarot in the form of meditative tool or art, so I guess it's not really exploring any new territory in terms of the original suggestions of the thread. Best wishes in this most interresting discussion. Cerulean Mari

Moongold	24 Apr 2004
Thank you for your post closapexa :) I was just replying when I was booted off the Internet. Not an omen though. Cerulean Mari ~ your capacity to continually see beauty and fun in this crazy, sometimes dark world always refreshes me. I love to see your posts, so please continue with your Tarot meditations :) More thoughts on the initial questions in this thread ~ I guess it does not really matter. It was one of those 3.00am thoughts that occur from time to time. The Divine is unknowable to us and is quite capable of looking after his/her own affairs. Whilst the question brings up interesting ideas around the origin and nature of good and evil, it is a hugely complex issue which I would like to take further but it probably needs another thread and a lot more thought. To be fanciful, I did a possible reading for a person desperate for drugs planning a burglary. It is a Celtic Cross and the interpretations are heavily biased. It's not a genuine throw either. I was playing with the cards looking at alternate meanings and came up with this, just for fun. Except it is sad fun. 1. Querent: 10 Swords 2. Crossing: Emperor 3. Basis : 9 Swords 4. Recent past: XV Devil 5. Possible outcome: XI Justice 6. Near future: XVIII Moon 7. Self: Fool 8. Environment: X Wheel of Fortune 9. Wishes and dreams: XVII Star 10. Outcome: X11 Hanged Man You’re hanging out and desperate but that house you’ve got staked is a great prospect. (10 Swords/Emperor}. It is not too late to stop though and regain control over your life. With your record of addiction I can understand why you’re doing this but you’re not as sharp as you used to be (9 Swords} OK I know you’ve tried to change and it didn’t work out again. What didn’t you see about yourself this time? (XV Devil) You know the risks don’t you? (XI Justice) Don’t forget the security systems this time. They have dogs I think. (XVIII Moon) There is still time to change your mind (Fool) It’s unpredictable, risky. You can get off the wheel now if you want to You’re playing against bigger odds than you thought. (X Wheel of Fortune) What’s really behind all this? Still trying to reach the stars without a space ship. (XVII Star) Even if you succeed, you’re still caught. (XII Hanged Man) Of course the real masterminds behind the drug economy are unlikely to even contemplate using something like the Tarot.

Astra	25 Apr 2004
Evil, like good, ends up being so much a matter of hindsight, and how many levels of consequence you're willing to add in to the picture. The more short term your thinking, the more you're concerned with your own personal good - right now. The longer term, the more you tend to think about potential consequences for yourself and others. Too long a term, and you get confused, because many actions have both "good" and "evil" consequences - eventually. When you're reading Tarot, a lot of the results you get do depend on just how long term you tend to think, and short-term readings tend to bring up ways to accomplish things that end up doing harm, both to you and to other people. So, to answer your question in a slightly modified form - you can certainly end up harming people using Tarot - either because you originally intended harm (or to keep yourself "safe"), or because you didn't bother to think about the consequences of your questions.

mac22	25 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold Can Tarot be used for evil purposes? This question occurred to me early this morning when I was thinking about why we read Tarot , how Tarot works and all those wonderful questions. I was also contemplating the capital punishment thread and thinking of crime generally. I wish angels would come to visit me at night, rather than these questions :) Picture Tarot in the hands of someone plotting a terrible crime. Imagine that person asking the Tarot what he needed to know about the most likely way to succeed. What kind of answer would he get? Can the Tarot be used for negative or evil purposes? Sure it can...it's a tool like many other But.... a) Would said person with such an evil bend to mind & spirit be able to correctly interpret his cards? b) Would not the wheel of karma bring his evil & life to an end?

Phoenix Rising	25 Apr 2004
Yes I'm quite sure Tarot can be used for evil. A thought whether good or bad is what the tarot reflects in the reading. The Divine has no Division it just is. Everything has a polarity, and there is no judgment in the Divine. We give the judgment of what is good and evil. Killing is evil, but if we were defending ourselves or loved ones. Your military bomb and kill the innocent too, is that evil?? It annoys me though that people (religious) connect the tarot to being evil. But that is their perception, we know better. I think Satanism is evil, but others have a different view on that too. But can someone define what evil means? that might help. LIVE spelt backwards.

closrapexa	26 Apr 2004
In addition, evil is such a subjective word. Did Hitler think of himself as evil? Did Mussolini? Does anyone, except in fairy tales? Now, I'm obviously not saying that the above were nice people, at least I wouldn't want to invite them to dinner, but when askng anything about evil, one must define it. And sadly, I doubt any true defenition exists.

TheoMo	26 Apr 2004
What an interesting thread! I thought I'd chime in after reading everyone's insightful comments. I tend to agree with those that Tarot can be used for any purposes. It is a way of connecting to something (albeit I don't know really what) that sheds insights on our situations, the nature of our connections to other people and to ourselves. In the hands of someone who wanted to use those purposes for ill ends, I don't see why using Tarot would be a problem. Someone mentioned the Thoth deck, and that got me thinking that in tapping into whatever it is Tarot taps into, perhaps it is the nature of the tool that affects things. In other words, maybe it matters which looking glass you want to go through in order to use Tarot for purposes other than self-improvement. While I don't know for sure, it strikes me that many Tarot decks are specifically crafted to help the user engage in self-improvement and self-knowledge. So maybe if you were to use the Rider or Thoth decks (just examples) to read as to how to kill someone you'd get answers that reflect the tendencies of those decks to aim the reader towards better and more productive solutions. On the other hand, maybe all it would take would be for someone to craft a deck that didn't fit the goals of self-improvement, whose images and layout reflected darker purposes. I dont' know what the deck would look like, but I suppose if someone really really thought about how to tap into the "dark side," as it were, they could probably come up with something. Anyway just my $.02

Red Emma	26 Apr 2004
I see tarot as a tool, like a knife or garden spade, or even a computer. The good or evil use of the tool lies in the intent of the user. Best wishes

Bosorka	27 Apr 2004
Interesting thread. I would agree with Red Emma, tarot tells you the thruth, and always what do you need to know, but the main thing is interpretation. All of you surely know the situation, when cards seem to confirm what you already know and later on you found out that it was only your interpretation, what made cards seem so agree. Sonetimes you see in cards just what you WANT to see. And to the evil thing. My mum was teacher, and on her school was such a project - what would you take with you to a new planet to start life there. One 10 years old told - and also one evil person, so we would know what evil is, and stay good.

punchinella	27 Apr 2004
To me this question boils down, very simply, to whether truth can be used for evil. Since, as Bosorka just pointed out, tarot tells the truth. Do we really need to define evil? My feeling is that I know it when I see it, & so does everybody else. Definition is beside the point. When a person rapes & murders a child, well, that's evil. There's no need to analyze why, we all understand it in our gut. In regards to the question itself--whether truth can be used for evil--well, my answer would be in the short-run yes, but in the the long-run no. Moongold's reading for the hypothetical addict was such an eloquent expression, on this point. On the other hand--as an aside--reading this thread has made me wonder whether there is some essential principle of 'good' lurking there in the drawer behind my favorite deck, since I instinctively use it for advice . . . if tarot is not 'good', if it is simply neutral, then why is the advice always so wise??? --I suppose the answer would be that I am using a neutral tool to access something good. & Moongold's initial question, then, would become whether tarot can also be used to access something not-so-good. Oh oh oh oh, I had things worked out so nice & tidy up at the top of this post, what happened??? As always, Moongold has made me THINK. :)

Raine	12 May 2004
I believe that anything can be used for evil causes if you are determined enough.

NeXoRiouS	15 May 2004
This is the first time I'm back after missing for a year. Anyway, I once asked a medium whether the questions I asked the tarot were true and she replied, "Was it your personality that answered or its the tarot?"

jmd	15 May 2004
Welcome back, NeXoRious. I must have missed this thread amongst the numerous ones when it started just under a month ago. There seems to be two aspects to the discussion which have emerged. On the one hand, whether Tarot itself may reflect the Good (or indeed be neutral), and secondly whether it may be used for whatever orientation one may bring to a reading (and it seems that its function for readings is the specific one being discussed). For myself, I do not consider Tarot to be neutral, but rather to be a reflection and manifestation of a deeply spiritual impulse. Of the long delineated concepts, three stand out as again and again being considered of central relevance: the Good, the Harmonious (or Beautiful), and the True. The first of these is reflected in actions. In that sense, one may very well question whether the act of undertaking a particular reading is good or not. The spread, however, reflects, to my personal view, something different - it reflects truth. I have at times described Tarot in terms of the ways it assists in the development of the Imaginative faculty. To me at least, this again connects with a reflection of Tarot as unveiling situations, ie, with the concept of truth. As an unveiling, there is a purity in truth which is, at higher spiritual levels, closely connected with both beauty and the good. Or at least, I agree with this view also shared by others. As mentioned in earlier posts, one may indeed throw a spread for whatever question one may have. The other considerations which come into play, however, are whether the spread will correctly be understood, and whether the actions of the individual will as a consequence be good or not. Can the Tarot be used for evil purposes ? no, in my view. The intent to use it for such may be there by the querent. If s/he correctly unveils the meanings presented by the cards, however, the message will lead to greater and more positive understanding and lead to positive actions. Evil is not just in intent. Evil acts may be committed without being desirous of evil - witness some involved in the 4th crusade, if nothing else. This implies, or presumes, however, that decks do arise out of spiritual impulses. If the case, then the deck used, and its proper reflection as Tarot, also becomes an important consideration.

cartarum	15 May 2004
a person who has all their faculties rarely gets involved with the occult. it is usually the spiritually lost, or the foolishly curious that get involved with tarot. so, someone with a high or above average intellegence will probably not use tarot. how does that combine with tarot and evil? tarot is a doctrine, a teacher. one could easily use the cards to find out the most methodical way to rob a bank or kill someone. Alesteir crowley was on the jack the ripper suspect list. but i digress... anyway, the point is that the tarot would manipulate the criminal in the end. he wouldnt get away with it. he just doesent have the smarts. hes not the magician who can talk his way out of any situation. he would eventually screw up and end up in jail or on death row.

joya250	15 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cartarum a person who has all their faculties rarely gets involved with the occult. it is usually the spiritually lost, or the foolishly curious that get involved with tarot. so, someone with a high or above average intellegence will probably not use tarot. LOL oh really ?

Aoife	15 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cartarum Alesteir crowley was on the jack the ripper suspect list. Crowley was born in October 1875. The first ripper murder was in August 1888... the last 1891. Which would have meant Crowley was 12 - 15 years old. I suspect Crowley's [much enjoyed] media persona as the 'most evil man alive' is behind this. Or perhaps he had a very troubled adolescence? Lol

deedlit420	15 May 2004
In the awesome book Tarot For Dummies, by Amber Jayanti, it is noted that the tarot is a tool. Amber makes an excellent analogy to a knife, noting that you can use it to slice bread or stab someone. Obviously, if a criminal wanted advice on how to kill someone, the tarot would give it to him. However, there is also the chance that other cards in the spread would caution him of the consequences of his actions, such as imprisonment, guilt, etc.

jmd	16 May 2004
cartarum makes some quite incredibly strong claims, when saying that 'a person who has all their faculties rarely gets involved with the occult. it is usually the spiritually lost, or the foolishly curious that get involved with tarot'. In one sense, it is undoubtedly correct of any activity which has any singificant number of people partaking: a number of us may be foolhardily searching for that which we know not. In another sense, it is also possibly true of all of us. For who amongst us has all their faculties fully developed ? are we not each in the process of further developing not only our lower faculties, but also our spiritual ones ? to my way of thinking, here Tarot may very well indeed assist. Where I personally disagree with Jayanti (as paraphrased by deedlit420), and others who have also said or implied the same, is that Tarot is a tool which is somewhat (morally) 'neutral' - in that a knife may be used for either carving, removing a splinter, cutting out a growth, slicing a tomato, or stabbing. Some tools do indeed have multiple functions, and one which has myriad shapes also reflect the various functions for which they have been designed (a knife designed for the butcher's prime cuts is different from the dinner-set fish knife). In each case, however, it is the cutting which is important. Some 'tools', however, are also extremely specific in their intent. An assault rifle has limited and very specific utility. Of course it may also be used in stabbing the ground and making small cylindrical holes in preparation for seedling plantation. Here, however, we are talking of a tool perhaps already begun to be transformed by powers and impulses different to those which shaped the rifle. What is used is not the rifle any longer, but the shape and materials out of which it is constructed. Similarly, then, with Tarot. It may be that someone uses the sharp edge of the cards to butter one's bread. In that sense, the deck may be used for other functions than that of Tarot. That is the deck, however, and not Tarot. If the Tarot's internal impulse is such as to awaken one to the spiritual dimensions of reality, then one may slowly modify its design so that this no longer occurs... ie, until the rifle is altered to spade, or until the Tarot is altered to something quite other than itself. ...but then it is no longer Tarot.

NeXoRiouS	16 May 2004
Has anyone tried this? Close your eyes, think of the person you hate most. Think of how you wish to torture/slice him/her up. Ask this question, 'How do I get the chance to have my hands on him/her?' Buddhas don't sit down together discussing about zen and gain enlightenment, do they? Scientists can come up with theories and explanations based on 'logic' but how many times have they failed just by experimenting? The best way to know is to experience it yourself. Everyone has their own perspective. Let our own minds decide whether it is evil as evil only exist in the mind.

jmd	16 May 2004
I trust your first question and 'suggestion' are 'merely' rhetorical, NeXoRiouS. These are the kinds of reflections which invite particular kinds of impulses, and particular ways in which a transformation towards evil becomes quite feasible. An act is, or is not, evil - even if an act within one's imaginative faculty. Determining whether an act is Good, or lacks goodness, may indeed by reflected in the fabric of the mind - but it does not solely reside therein.

Umbrae	16 May 2004
Zyclone B was an insecticide…a tool. But it’s use and subsequent publicity altered perception.

laura_borealis	16 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold Can the Tarot be used for negative or evil purposes? It can and it has: as a plot device in the terrible Bond film, "Live and Let Die." That is a movie that should never have been made. })

laura_borealis	16 May 2004
I killed the thread! :eek: Hey, it's not like I invoked the Teddy Bear Tarot or something. Now that is truly an evil use of tarot. (Whoops, I invoked it anyway! Aaaaiiieeee!)

jmd	16 May 2004
At times, there are important reflections which occurs... and difficult thoughts which one considers as a variety of views have been expressed. A thread will then slowly make its way into the depths of its companion threads :) In Live & Let Die, I do not think Tarot was in the least used, but rather depicted and mis-represented.

laura_borealis	17 May 2004
I meant its use as a plot device -- not how it was depicted as being used in the plot -- if you follow me. My premise is that it was Evil to unleash that movie into the world, because it is so utterly Bad. ;) Misrepresented, yes. As was vodou in that film. Really irresponsible, but what can you expect from Hollywood schlock.

HOLMES	17 May 2004
i can see an angry person who didn't buy the tarot for reading purposes but instead wants to give revenge. and so he takes the card ten of swords, or devil or tower and pictures the person who they are angry at in their mind and as they saying that saying mean things . they did it as joke perhaps ,, but half serious at the time. kapow , that person they did that too lost a leg, or falled into dispair, or lost their house. would that be coincidence.. i would think not that would be the equivlent of an "evil spell " but negative spell of harmful intent none the less. vice versa i see a person who take the sun card or ten of cups and pictures a person in their minds while they send energy to the card to the person and say a prayer please creator bless my loved one so they are protected by the light or find their happiness. (perhaps they could even hold the devil card in their hand and say please creator help the person deal with their addictions and free themselves from the chains of attachment ) . would the tarot have a safeguard enstilled with them to stop them from being used with negative intent ? what about those preachers who preace hellfire and brimstone vs love and forgiveness ? or those who make negative games for enjoyment and find someone emulating their games in real life (example would be the power ranger tv show in the beginning that had kids emulating their moves and caused a kid to kill another kid indireclty ,, but still influencing ) . or even one of my favourites is wrestling over the past years some kids have been crippled emulating the moves upon their brothers or friends. is wrestling evil , video games, tv shows, or the bible,, no, but safeguards have to be taught, and made aware to those who are not aware. such as influenceable young kids, naive peopole. or uneducated people. a friend was mediating and was mad at a person and while mediating picture that person getting it.. at their prom that person drowned (at least that is what i think he told me that was about 9 years ago and i havent' seen my friend since then) but he did die. and so he carried that guilt with him, and then a reality check person might say do you have the power to infleunce things with your mind, ? (i had someone say that to someone who felt guilty along the same lines but it didnt' end in death ) are you god they said to that person. perhaps that is why we protect ourselves from growing too fast so we do not misue our abilities or our tools. for we are gods "ye are gods " and so tarot isnt' evil, it could be used for evill.. but that evil or negativeness would becoming from the individual and not the cards. now i was speaking to a friend quite recently and we were discussing since things can be imprinted over time. would the tarot pick up negative vibrations from being used as a negative tool over time. . it is cardboard and it isnt' the most conductive energy wise thing in the world. (i recall a thread too where someone mentioned talking to someone who had imprinted demons in their tarot cards when i first came to the forum or over a year ago ) and that is along the same lines.. but that also means that while i can't see it possible to put angels into cards ( i mean why would an angel want to go in there ? we can not only use the tarot as a good instruements but focus light into them every day and they will become postively charged as to tell more postive readings. while asking the light to help us tell in a good way of anything like "impending doom " which to me means there is a build up of negative energy in the clients life and that is how it will let loose as to bring the clients life into balance. example sickness, car accidents, house burnt down. they are not all results of intended evil and i like to think hardly ever intended evil but were meant to be to teach us things. at least the unpreventable ones like lighting striking the house. while the other ones that are preventalbe. (drive slow on the road in two weeks for it will be slipper,or get a check up i feel a heavness in my chest as i think of your energy. or do have the party or get together there may be an accient involving fire ) ps. i rarely ever get that accurate , but i think you get the general gist . and so a light infused tarot deck with love could help prepare , and forwarened, and to help deal postively. and that is what we lightworkers tarot readers strive to do eh

Red Emma	21 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cartarum a person who has all their faculties rarely gets involved with the occult. it is usually the spiritually lost, or the foolishly curious ... . Cartarum, would you please define for me "the spiritually lost?" Would it by chance be those who leave established religions? Those who refuse to let others think for them? Those who have found their own path to The Devine, and invite "intercessors" out of their lives, and out of their spiritual practises? No matter how well intentioned, how well educated in religious seminaries or how well endowed with credibility by Authoritarian religions? The ideas you espouse were prevalent before and until sometime after WW II, but are fast losing ground. I can attest to that, having been around since well before WW II. During that time acceptance of conventional religious views have gone from just over 50% (right after WW II) to, currently, about 25%. Except for some small pockets where traditional thought prevails. AS for "uneducated," were you to take a reading of the post-graduate degrees among we "foolishly curious" AEF members, you'd be stunned. Just last night I met with a group of local pagan women who are exploring differing levels of consciousness via Wiccan and Pagan practises. Two of them are Ph D candidates, one has a master's in Chinese history. Others included a woman with a master's in urban affairs and city planning, another with a master's in public policy formation. One, with a bachelor's degree in fine arts supports herself and her children with those abilities. The world is changing, Cartarum. Few of us still let "Authority" tell us what to believe, how to order our lives. Nor will we ever go back to that pinched, narrow, confining world. Excuse my rushing off. I have to go cast a spell to ask for healing for my husband who is ill. Goddess Bless.

The Tarot and Evil thread was originally posted on 24 Apr 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.