The Marseille Bateleur vs the WCS Magician
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| jmd |
23 Apr 2004 |
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Some of the recent discussions highlight in wonderful details two of the more important decks produced and which many have ready access to.
Of course, the Waite-Colman Smith (WCS) was designed with the Marseilles as its principal backdrop - though Waite must have definitely also been influenced by what I sometimes refer to as the Flemish region influence in many of its card designs.
For the purposes of this thread, however, I thought it may be useful to make comparisons of just this first card...
For those who do not have a copy of either one or both of these decks, and example from each of these decks may be studied by clicking on the following links:The first thing which is to my eyes strikingly different is that the raised and lowered arms are mirror images - as is the overall pattern of the card!
On the same topic, the arms fold or curve as though mimicking the Hebrew letter Alef in the Marseilles, but look more like the Roman letter 'I' - or even the sound 'ee' in tone Eurythmy - on the WCS.
The direction of their respective gaze is quite significant (or at least in my personal view).
Also, whereas in the older Tarot deck, three of the table's legs may be seen, and the two legs of the person can also be seen (adding to five), at most only two of the table's legs are to be obscurely seen in the more modern WCS rendition.
In the Marseilles depiction, a single plant seems to prominantly rise between the person's legs (though there is usually also a tuft of grass depicted), in contradistinction to the rich and varied lillies and roses depicted on the WCS card.
And of course, in the Marseille, the person's head is covered.
The belt is also clearly a belt... but now I begin to describe more the details!
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| smleite |
23 Apr 2004 |
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The RWS card has obviously a lot of associations with ritual magic. Le Bateleur stands in a completely different spiritual universe, I think.
To begin a series of “steps” of a pathway with a picture in which the man is shown looking directly to me and exhibiting his power, or performing a sort of invocatory ritual, makes me feel uncomfortable. The way the displayed path begins determines its whole direction, and probably also its end. As far as I see it, the RWS magician insist on the building, strengthening and use of personal power; to gain personal power, confidence, self-control and executive capacity might be highly recommended from a psychological viewpoint, and is probably a very important step in the spiritual path that Tarot expresses, but it doesn’t go any further. Le Bateleur, with his assortment of humble objects representing the natural elements, and his unpretentious and somewhat light attitude, is much more of a beginner, and will probably reach much further. The wide landscape around him reinforces this feeling, as opposing to the constructed and tamed “english garden” I can’t avoid seeing in the RWS card...
To see only two table legs is not satisfactory to me. Three legs, one missing, remind me of three columns in Masonic depictions: tradition says they are four, but to find the fourth is something each initiate should do by himself.
I also find the direction of their respective gaze to be quite significant, and again, I “trust” more a card – and this card represents not only the beginning of a path, but also the beginning of MY path, every time I use the cards – that seems to be “anchored” in something prior to it, something I like to consider to be Tradition, Spirit, or whatever.
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The The Marseille Bateleur vs the WCS Magician thread was originally posted on 23 Apr 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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