To Umbrae

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

WalesWoman	09 Apr 2004
Thanks so much for posting the link to those articles in Yves thread. (I haven't figured out the way to make the links, but I will check it out, really) I think that was pretty much what this other person was referring to, but it really wasn't their year cycle. I am really wishing I could remember this, it was something like this...I'll use my birthdate for an example, for some reason (curse my memory lapses) you drop the first two digits of the current year: *08 +01 +04=13 So in a reading I would either be coming from 4 Emperor mindset or concern or from the position of the Death. LOL I asked for this and got myself into it... Otherwise in the Current Cycle, I'd either be in my Hierophant year until August or I'm in a 6 year, I'm still trying to decide. (Must be a Lover's, I can't decide diddley) The person who was talking about this learned it in some Tarot class in Germany, unfortunately I can't remember who this person was and he stopped posting in the forum I was going to at the time, so I never got to know more about it. I really am trying to give the books and LWB the boot, but I go blank sometimes, especially if it's just reading other people's spreads posted here, I see the card and can't even think of what the heck it is or what it means or anything and have to make a picture in my mind or what it looks like before any meanings start happening. Insecurity and basic laziness send me scrambling for the few books I do have and that is the main reason I haven't tried reading face to face. It wouldn't do much to instill any credibility in my ablilities to read if I have to dig out a book in the middle of a reading. (I do remember your advice to check out Ebay, but I'm particularly broke, even tho' I have a job I can hardly afford but love it too much to look for something that pays better) It's a "Devil", but it's kept me from buying every deck that strikes my fancy and making me learn the ones I do have. Anyway, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed those articles, they made me think a lot and gave me some good ideas and really helped me feel like I'm going in the right direction. Your humor is much appreciated as well as your wisdom and insights. I just edited this because I'm also mathmatecally challenged and just realized...

Umbrae	09 Apr 2004
It sure looks the similar to finding the clients ‘year cycle’… My birthday is April 3, 1954. Today is April 9, 2004. We take the last date I had a birthday (2004), drop the first two digits (cuz we are NOT measuring from JC’s supposed and incorrectly figured birthday – but from a cultural acceptance point) and have this number… 04/03/04. So 04+3=7(+4)=11. So before we reduce to the year number – we look at the number 11. In numerology, 11 is a number of note, expressing a high spiritual plane, intuitive, illumination, idealism, ideas, and dreams. Now we reduce to the year cycle number of 2. A Papesse (or High Priestess) year. I came out of a one. Did my last year hold new beginnings for me? Did I begin new projects? Start a new business? You know where I am now, and you know what next year will be sorta kinda like. Now – when I sit down across from you for a reading – you remember these things. Think about the High Priestess, think about the number 11 and two…what kind of issues might I have this year?

Star Spirit	09 Apr 2004
Hey, Umbrae--I was just wondering about this as well. I re-read your articles the other day and was wondering if you always reduced to a single digit or not? I'm guessing from your post that you do, but take the 2-digit # (if there is one) into consideration. Is that right? If so, what is your reason for reducing to the full extent?

Umbrae	09 Apr 2004
It all goes to ONE digit. It's about a 10-year cycle. However...eleven and twenty-two I pay attention to. Long ago I took Numerology out of the dark-ages. Numerology works wonderfully – if you accept that it measures from the birth date of Jesus which is inaccurate, does not allow for the changing from the Julian to the Gregorian calendars, does not allow for the days that just disappeared…and what happens when you read for a Jewish person who follows the Jewish calendar? Even that was standardized in the fourth century… “Ahh, your birthday is on the fifteenth of Elul!” Chinese folks are the same… Which calendar do you use? World wide, we have become conscious of a 10-year cultural cycle. Regardless of your religion or lifestyle, you ‘live’ by that cycle. Live by the Jewish calendar? As I write this, it is the 18th of Nissan, 5764. So let’s say you’re devout. Dead Star’s last birthday was on the Av, 25th, 5763 (Sat, 23 August 2003 = 25th of Av, 5763). So let’s do some Comparative Numerology. Av is the 5th month + 25 + 63 = 93 (9+3= 11) = 2. If you were a devout Jew, you would have the same year cycle as I. As a round-eye’d wasp…(lol) 8/23/03 = 34 = 7…but this ASSUMES you live in a European/American/Canadian etc. culture. Why would your cycle be different? Because your cultural roots are different – you are different – and you don’t use AD or BC, your head is covered, you have two refridgerators and two sets of dishes and two sets of silverware…and Passover was last Tuesday…and every year you ‘Leave Egypt’. But you still know that it’s six years before you turn the Calendar to 5770. Yet when you interact with my culture you have to sign your checks 2004. So there is still an awareness of our 10-year cycle. But I will default to the predominant cycle in a person’s life. By the way…Chinese and Indians have their own calendar’s also… Make sense now?

Star Spirit	09 Apr 2004
Quote: Make sense now? Haha...um, maybe after a few beers? :D Actually that does help a lot and I see where you're coming from now, thank you Umbrae. If only we all had your age in wisdom ;)

tmgrl2	09 Apr 2004
I, too, am grateful for the articles....and had a bit of trouble, at first with the numbers...but now, you mentioned 11 and 22...are those the only ones above 10 you pay attention to before reducing again? Do you have a site for numerology or source that might be a good resource for those of us who are somewhat "number challenged?" I assume that some of the basic principles that go with the minor card numbers are applicable? Are meanings for numbers, e.g., similar to those one might find corresponding to the Tree of Life (10 circular Sephiroth)? Have wondered how numerologists connect these number meanings....Minor cards, 10 of Sephiroth,and, perhaps, numerology's overall application.... See what you started.... I really like the birthday reduction and use of ten year cycle with what one is coming from, in , and approaching......very good starting inner guide... again....ty for all! Didn't someon propose to you this past week in one of the postings? So I can't do that...besides, I am an older woman and married....LOL

tmgrl2	09 Apr 2004
OK...so my last birthday was 11/03/03...= 17 = 8 So I am in an 8 year....expanding, giving out...prioritizing....evolution....moving on...(Tree of Life: logic-intellect? Wow! this is true....new to Tarot....preparing for retirement in 1/05..... Coming out of a 7 year ...inner work...struggle...self reflection...restraint...new directions...awakening.... also true...much more inner work last year...coming WAY out with Tarot and retirement...(Tree of Life: Emotional likes/dislikes?...what I love?) Next year...9 year gestation? conclusions? fulfillment? luck? fate? solitude? self-reliance?.... of course...retirement fits all of those...my husband's health doesn't look good for the long haul...self-reliance? (Tree of Life: subconscious ...fantasy? ) Some of this I am getting from ...Mary Greer's Tarot for Yourself... I know you aren't a "fan" of some of the popularist authors in Tarot? Any other suggestions for numbers...and can they apply across the spectrum of numerology, minors, Tree of Life? Will check back tomorrow...... terri

ncefafn	09 Apr 2004
I'm still not sure I understand why you drop the millenium and century numbers, regardless of whose calendar you use. Kim

Star Spirit	10 Apr 2004
Hey, for those of you looking to learn some numerology basics, I like this site: http://members.aol.com/AspireA1/ Enjoy :) Also, Umbrae--when you use this system, do you prefer to denote the numbers to traditional numerology or tarot cards?

Umbrae	10 Apr 2004
Folks…I’m just a guy. Just a guy who happens to read cards. I started doing the numerology stuff like this back in the 70’s. I don’t do kaballlah, and really…I don’t do numerology. But this has served me well for many years. Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn I'm still not sure I understand why you drop the millennium and century numbers, regardless of whose calendar you use. Because culture has outgrown them. Do you really count from Jesus’s birth everytime you think of the year? The building of the Temple? When the year changes what do you think about? Culture and a life spent in this culture dictates how you are ‘wired’, how you think. My version of year cycles changes on YOUR birthday, not on a calendar change. Judged from a calendar change (new number on the first of the year as in M. Greer’s Year Card) would discuss External things and you. A Year Cycle (as I use), changes on your birthday, a psychological punctuation mark. Using it, gives us a result that looks at Internal pressures, and you are relating the internal to the external. My numerology is a combination of tarot, standard numerology, non-standard numerology, Masonic symbolism, and my own research. And no, I am not a numerologist…because the calendar used – is in error. (to me, it would be like doing a majors only reading, with 10 cards missing and telling me that, “Well of course it’s Tarot – it used to be a full deck!” Several of you have discussed marriage with me…I’ll have to check with my wife, although I doubt if she’ll ‘go for it’…in the meantime, we could begin a rumor…

Star Spirit	10 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Folks…I’m just a guy. Just a guy who happens to read cards. I started doing the numerology stuff like this back in the 70’s. I don’t do kaballlah, and really…I don’t do numerology. But this has served me well for many years. Because culture has outgrown them. Do you really count from Jesus’s birth everytime you think of the year? The building of the Temple? When the year changes what do you think about? Culture and a life spent in this culture dictates how you are ‘wired’, how you think. My version of year cycles changes on YOUR birthday, not on a calendar change. Judged from a calendar change (new number on the first of the year as in M. Greer’s Year Card) would discuss External things and you. A Year Cycle (as I use), changes on your birthday, a psychological punctuation mark. Using it, gives us a result that looks at Internal pressures, and you are relating the internal to the external. My numerology is a combination of tarot, standard numerology, non-standard numerology, Masonic symbolism, and my own research. And no, I am not a numerologist…because the calendar used – is in error. (to me, it would be like doing a majors only reading, with 10 cards missing and telling me that, “Well of course it’s Tarot – it used to be a full deck!” Several of you have discussed marriage with me…I’ll have to check with my wife, although I doubt if she’ll ‘go for it’…in the meantime, we could begin a rumor… Thanks for the info :D We know you're just a "guy". Just more informed than some of us. I don't "do" numerology either really, I mean I can do it fine but I prefer to denote the numbering to tarot cards rather than numerology meanings a lot of the time, because I find it more fitting to tarot and easier for me to remember, lol. As for marriage...it wasn't something I considered... Although.... :D

ncefafn	10 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Because culture has outgrown them. Do you really count from Jesus’s birth everytime you think of the year? The building of the Temple? When the year changes what do you think about? Culture and a life spent in this culture dictates how you are ‘wired’, how you think. Welllllll . . . Bill Gates thought culture had outgrown the millenium and century numbers too. As I recall, he eventually had to rethink his position. ;) Kim

Umbrae	10 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn Welllllll . . . Bill Gates thought culture had outgrown the millenium and century numbers too. As I recall, he eventually had to rethink his position. We ain't talkin' computer software here, no binary code. Rethink my postion? It's my position, you don't have to agree with it. Right or wrong? I'm a reader - and as a reader of Tarot for others, it works. Then again, perhaps I don't understand you point. Can you explain to me the validity of the currently accepted calendar? (as I’ve said before…) The Julian calendar was used and accepted by Europeans after the heyday of the Roman Empire. They dickered around about when Christ was born (using that event as a starting point, I think they should use the birth of Ty Cobb myself). Around 1614, Johannes Kepler decided to (Kepler proved much of Tycho Brahe’s work to be archaic, Newton did the same to Kepler, who in turn was refuted by Leverrier, and everyone fell to Einstein) place Christ’s birth at 4 B.C.E. Recently they decided that Kepler was off and the J.C. was born in 6 B.C.E. (but they don’t say if they count year 0 or not…). But the equinox kept falling behind, on the calendar one full day every 130 years. By the 1500’s, the spring equinox was all the way back to early March. This was a dreadful situation… How can we celebrate Easter without ‘knowing’? So the pope decided to mandate a working calendar. 1582 was the year that Pope Gregory XIII ordered ten days to be dropped from the calendar…so that the equinox (vernal) was on March 20th, as it had been during the time of the Council of Nicea (now there is a historical event worth your while to research…woooo hooo!). Also “New Years” was moved from March 31st, to January 1st. Leap years were added. Most European nations adopted the Gregorian reform, with the exception of England and its Colonies, which held out until 1752. At that time, 11 days had to be cut from their calendar. Worse yet…this all assumes a Eurocentric system. Not a Judaic or Arabic system, and since J.C. was not European… So if the death and resurrection of J.C. is fixed to the Lunar calendar (first full moon etc.), how come the birth is fixed to the Solar calendar (3 days after the Winter Solstice). Now anyone worth their weight in salt knows that in the ‘Holy Land’ you don’t tend your flocks in the mountains in December, also in an agrarian society, you do not pay taxes in the middle of winter, you pay after the harvest. Anyway…here’s the nut…! What is Numerology based on? An un-rectified Julian or Gregorian calendar? It all assumes that the birth date of old J.C. being accurate was year 1 (AD). But that was refuted in 1614 by Kepler…and now they believe he was off by a couple of years… BTW: and if you aren’t hep to the Council of Nicia…you really do need to check it out. Do a google on the Nestorians. Where is the all going? I mean seriously…the current Gregorian calendar was based upon Ecclesiastical convenience – not fact. It’s an arbitrary system. And if it was ‘agreed’ that JC was born in 4 B.C. then all numerological studies would be off by at least five digits (since the year 0 is not counted). So numerology…and Personality, Soul, and Year cards…they would be based upon myth… And if Myth is more powerful than truth… Is it unfair for us to tweak our own numerological systems? Just a question folks… vast portions plagiarized from a prior posts of my own. Research is from The Practical American Navigator by Nathaniel Bowditch, the History Channel, The Learning Channel, Internet sources, and so on and so forth,…

ncefafn	10 Apr 2004
I don't really have a point. I don't do numerology. The only thing I wanted to know is why you take the approach you do. I'm sorry if I came off sounding confrontational. Peace.

Star Spirit	11 Apr 2004
That's quite an earful, Umbrae :) Very interesting, I never realized it was all that complicated! :D

The To Umbrae thread was originally posted on 09 Apr 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.