Pre-Poll: Your own approaches to court cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rusty Neon	01 May 2004
I'm planning to run a poll on people's own approaches to court cards of RWS and RWS-inspired decks. Here are some of the poll choices I'm thinking of. Members would be able for up to, say, 5 approaches they most commonly employ. Comments would be appreciated. I apologize that this is still a rough draft. Should any poll choices be added? Any desirable clarifications? Looking at the image and making personality determinations from the image Element/Sub-element (e.g., Queen of Wands as Water of Fire) Zodiac sign Golden Dawn [book t] keywords used by Waite and Crowley. Looking at the image to make up a story or description to describe the personality expressed by the card MBTI - Myer-Briggs Type Inventory Jungian: e.g., if Swords are intellect, and Queen are emotion, Queen of Swords would be Emotions modifying intellect I Ching correspondences Correspondences to the 16 geomantic figures Double Keyword: Rank + Suit: e.g., if a keyword for Queen is nuturing, and a keyword for Pentacles is health issues: Queen of Pentacles could be nurturing others on health issues. Number + Suit: e.g., Queen is the 13th card. Treat as 3. Number + Suit: e.g., Queen is the 13th card. Reduce 13 to 4. Treat as 4. Etteilla meanings: e.g., Queen of Swords as widow, sorrow; Knight of Swords as soldier; Page of Swords as spy Use of court cards as modifiers of other cards: e.g., Page is the beginning of what is expressed by the other card; King is the culmination of what is expressed by the other card, etc. Functional: e.g., Page (or Knight) as the bringer of a message. Other How many people use any of the above methods to derive divinatory meanings that are abstract ideas (e.g., Creativity, Power, etc.) rather than personality-based? Thus, similar to the approach used in the Osho Zen deck: King of Pentacles-Abudance; Queen of Pentacles: Flowering; etc. References: Article by David Allen Hulse http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article.php?id=387

laura_borealis	01 May 2004
The only thing I can think to add is as significators. Also wanted to say that I've really been enjoying your polls. :)

tmgrl2	01 May 2004
Looks like you've about got it covered...some of which I haven't learned yet! When I see court cards in a reading...I immediately relate them to other cards in the reading and to the Q...sometimes I feel they represent the Q, sometimes an element of the total reading and not a person at all, sometimes, I wonder who in the Q's life this might be... This isn't a question...and maybe you covered it in the item about relationships to the others...but wasn't sure if you just meant to the others within the heirarchy of court cards. terri

Nycelle	02 May 2004
Just realising how much I still have to learn! I think you've got everything there. . .

tatsi	05 Dec 2004
Rusty Neon wrote: I'm planning to run a poll on people's own approaches to court cards of RWS and RWS-inspired decks. Here are some of the poll choices I'm thinking of. Members would be able for up to, say, 5 approaches they most commonly employ. Comments would be appreciated. I apologize that this is still a rough draft. Should any poll choices be added? Any desirable clarifications? Looking at the image and making personality determinations from the image Element/Sub-element (e.g., Queen of Wands as Water of Fire) Zodiac sign Golden Dawn [book t] keywords used by Waite and Crowley. Looking at the image to make up a story or description to describe the personality expressed by the card MBTI - Myer-Briggs Type Inventory Jungian: e.g., if Swords are intellect, and Queen are emotion, Queen of Swords would be Emotions modifying intellect I Ching correspondences Correspondences to the 16 geomantic figures Double Keyword: Rank + Suit: e.g., if a keyword for Queen is nuturing, and a keyword for Pentacles is health issues: Queen of Pentacles could be nurturing others on health issues. Number + Suit: e.g., Queen is the 13th card. Treat as 3. Number + Suit: e.g., Queen is the 13th card. Reduce 13 to 4. Treat as 4. Etteilla meanings: e.g., Queen of Swords as widow, sorrow; Knight of Swords as soldier; Page of Swords as spy Use of court cards as modifiers of other cards: e.g., Page is the beginning of what is expressed by the other card; King is the culmination of what is expressed by the other card, etc. Functional: e.g., Page (or Knight) as the bringer of a message. Other How many people use any of the above methods to derive divinatory meanings that are abstract ideas (e.g., Creativity, Power, etc.) rather than personality-based? Thus, similar to the approach used in the Osho Zen deck: King of Pentacles-Abudance; Queen of Pentacles: Flowering; etc. References: Article by David Allen Hulse http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article.php?id=387 What I great poll to have! Most people tend to have the most difficulties in interpreting the court cards, so seeing how other approach this could be real beneficial. tatsi

jlbvt	05 Dec 2004
Rusty, some LWB's and so presumably some tarot readers only ascribe physical charictaristics to the courts. Like, a young person with dark hair and eyes... You could add that to your poll. Joan OOPS! Just realized this thread is really old, so ignore that.

smokey	06 Dec 2004
Oooh!!! But what fun it is ta' shake some of the dust offa' the ole' goodies sometimes, though!!! ...(Just to have another thought or two on; like I did, with no actual polls involved.)

gargoyle_guarded	08 Dec 2004
Mostly I use the court cards as modifiers of other cards: e.g., Princess is the bringer of a message regarding the following card, Prince is an improvement regarding the following card, Queen is aware of the following card, King is helping the following card.

jlbvt	09 Dec 2004
gargoyle_guarded wrote: Mostly I use the court cards as modifiers of other cards: e.g., Princess is the bringer of a message regarding the following card, Prince is an improvement regarding the following card, Queen is aware of the following card, King is helping the following card. I never thought of reading them that way- do you find that it's very accurate? (Court cards still give me problems) Joan

Nina*	09 Dec 2004
gargoyle_guarded; this sounds very interesting... but what do you do if you for instance draw a court card as a card for the day? Will you draw another one to see which situation the court card modifies? Nina :o)

gargoyle_guarded	09 Dec 2004
Hi jlbvt and Ninamagic. Court cards gave me problems as well. But I must say that more times than not, using the cards as modifiers has proven quite useful and accurate for interpreting a situation. Now I tend to stick to using court cards as modifiers. When drawing a card for the day, should it happen to be a court card, yes, indeed I would draw another card to get a better picture of the situation. Oh, and one other thing....let's say I'm doing a spread such as the Celtic Cross. When a court card appears in any postion I immediately draw another card to be modified. (Cards are always face up as I lay them down so I know to play another card on a court card as soon as I see one.) If by chance I should happen to draw a second court card, I continue to draw another card to be modified. I've seen instances where I've turned up a Queen, Prince, Prince, Princess for example. Initially I dreaded the thoughts of trying to read FIVE cards (four court cards plus a situation card) for a SINGLE position in the spread but now I look forward to it. Multiple court cards usually suggest many people or energies are influencing the situation. That always makes for a detailed and interesting reading. Something else I'd like to add. Because court cards often create difficulties for interpretations, why not turn this situation around. Choose a method you're comfortable with and then practice interpreting the court cards until they become one of your greatest reading strengths.

Nina*	09 Dec 2004
gargoyle_guarded.... I get what you mean... and still think it's interesting. But then, how do you differ between for instance the queen of swords and the queen of cups if you just look at them as 'aware'. Are they then aware in a feeling way, a thinking way.....

gargoyle_guarded	09 Dec 2004
oh yeah, I didn't mention anything about that did I. hmm, well in my deck the suit of swords represents fire and wands represents air. (could be reversed in yours.) I believe cups are always water and pentacles are always earth no matter the deck being used. Anyway, that being said it's a personal choice how you choose your suits to represent the elements. My method makes sense to me and works for me. Therefore, I use the modifiers of each suit as follows: swords represent energy, action, movement and conflict (internal or external) wands represent expressions of the mind, career and travel cups represent emotions, relationships and intuition pentacles represent material possessions, wealth and health Princess - favorable (U) or unfavorable news (R)...about card that follows Prince - improvement (U) or decline in (R)...card that follows Queen - aware (U) or unaware of (R)...card that follows King - helping (U) or hindering (R)...card that follows Let's use your examples of the two Queens to further clarify... Queen of Cups modifying let's say Five of Wands in my deck: a woman is aware of her emotions concerning a group that is overcoming conflict; a group that has joined together to achieve a common goal (the woman acknowledges her feelings about a group of people) Queen of Swords (R) modifying Nine of Pentacles in my deck: a woman is unaware of the energy or action behind wanting to handle the situation alone. (the woman doesn't know what is causing her to create distance between herself and another) Does this make sense Ninamagic? If not, please let me know and I will be glad to try again.

Nina*	09 Dec 2004
:o) A lot does, thanks... But are you into which element goes together an which doesn't... I mean... why (in your example) is the queen of cups aware of 5 of wands and the queen of swords UNaware of 9 of pentacles? Do you understand my question... I'm not sure I'm making myself clear....

gargoyle_guarded	09 Dec 2004
I think I know what you're asking and my answer is no, not really. People always say the elements of Fire and Water don't mix. However, my longest relationships (friends and lovers) have always been with water signs. And go figure - I am a Fire sign. In my examples I gave two upright cards and then one reversed with an upright just for two different examples. The elemental cards I chose were selected for no other reason than they were a random pick of two cards. It was not meant for the sake of showing how one element corresponds to another. However, that is a method you may wish to try. Myself, I think any two energies can work together nicely just as easily as they can work against one another.

Flavio	09 Dec 2004
gargoyle_guarded wrote: Mostly I use the court cards as modifiers of other cards: e.g., Princess is the bringer of a message regarding the following card, Prince is an improvement regarding the following card, Queen is aware of the following card, King is helping the following card. You keep on surprising me gargoyle_guarded... first with your unusual yet interesting takes on programming and timing cards and now with your court cards system, you should put everything in a book (really!) look forward for more of your nice surprises :)

tatsi	09 Dec 2004
gargoyle_guarded wrote: Mostly I use the court cards as modifiers of other cards: e.g., Princess is the bringer of a message regarding the following card, Prince is an improvement regarding the following card, Queen is aware of the following card, King is helping the following card. That is a very interesting take on how to read/apply court cards in a reading. This may indeed be something I'll do in my readings. Thanks for this and your follow-up posts on this technique of yours. tatsi

gargoyle_guarded	09 Dec 2004
Funny you should mention that Flavio. :o) I have a book that I've been working on for about three months now. Well, it's more of a binder I guess but it has all my card interpretations, methods of reading court cards, ways of timing events, programming techniques, various tarot spreads etc. stored in one location. Right now the binder is for my own personal use as a reference material while I continue to learn. But some day I would like to teach a class on tarot. I figure this book will come in handy at that time. In the short time I've been here at the Aeclectic Tarot Forum, I must admit that I've learned a lot from many of the fellow readers, yourself included Flavio. So, thanks for the exchange of energy. And you're quite welcome Tatsi. Please feel free to ask whenever a question arises. Not to suggest that I'm more experienced than another reader, but I don't mind sharing any information I have at all. And Flavio, I do believe I have a few more surprises to share. ;o)

The Pre-Poll: Your own approaches to court cards thread was originally posted on 01 May 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.