Question.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

gareth.	08 May 2004
One most interesting comment I have read is that you do not need to have faith in tarot because it demonstrates it "works". This is my experience. Why and why if someone creates a new tarot pack it may still work? Thought about that , are there "dud" packs out there? Real question of course is where the energy comes from. Are the cards animate or are we tapping into ourselves? I would welcome advice and comment.

dadsnook2000	08 May 2004
Yes, this is one of those questions that has the potential of having a large number of answers. I suspect they will all be "right" even though different. Of course you need "faith" in the Tarot process. Of course, what that process is can be different things for some of us. It is not just the cards -- yet the cards really are important as their pictures and symbols help us to key in on what we see and say. It is not just the Tarot Reader -- the more experienced readers can give wonderful readings, but even the "just starting out" reader can be both right and helpful. It is not just the question -- most Tarot readers hear the question asked and the question that was meant to be asked. Human nature is something that we all understand to some degree. It's the "connection" that is important. The energy comes from the connections between the reader, the process of reading, the deck chosen, and the querent. Yet the energy may be differently felt by various readers, it may come more easily or quickly -- or be very low level as well as intense. I'm sure others will give you even more answers. Dave.

lunalafey	08 May 2004
There has been many readings where I wish I had a skeptic around to witness. Tarot can be extreamly blunt at times. Even a person who knows nothing about tarot can see a strong message coming through if they just look. I don't think one needs faith for the cards to work. The cards fall in the order they are supposed to no matter what. Either you choose to believe the message or you don't. I believe it's more about sychronicity that dictates where the cards will fall, and thaat is something of the universe that will never really be understood- so I guess, that's where the faith comes in. Digging deeper into tarot for anyone will prove that there is a complex network of symbolism, that in a reading, will connect the cards to form a detailed look into a situation. Only by doing can this be seen. I can't imagine one with no faith taking the time. With faith, seeing these connections comes easier, because of the desire to see such things. We take up an interest and find that there are things in ourselves that we relate to within the cards. It makes each person have their own individual way of reading.

skytwig	08 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey There has been many readings where I wish I had a skeptic around to witness. Tarot can be extreamly blunt at times. Even a person who knows nothing about tarot can see a strong message coming through if they just look. I don't think one needs faith for the cards to work. The cards fall in the order they are supposed to no matter what. Either you choose to believe the message or you don't. I believe it's more about sychronicity that dictates where the cards will fall, and thaat is something of the universe that will never really be understood- so I guess, that's where the faith comes in. Excellent!!! It would be grand to see the goings on 'behind' the shuffle and sudden arrangement of the cards ..... all the wings flapping and the dimensions shifting and the miracles waxing and waning in a matter of seconds and then suddenly settle as the first card is lifted....... :)

Astra	09 May 2004
Lunafey, the oddest thing about having a skeptic (capital S hard core) watching a reading is that many times you get nothing at all. I suspect it's not so much that they have faith that nothing will happen, but that they're scared spitless that something will - so they put incredible amounts of energy into making sure that nothing will happen that they can't discount. It can be disconcerting, to say the least.

Dark_angel	09 May 2004
Even when something major does happen, they won't necessarily believe it. A couple of sceptical friends of mine happened to sit in on a session that my non-sceptical friends and I were using to study a strange piece of jewellery. We all looked at the cards and said exactly the same things, we all got the same feelings, even the same physical effects (we all ended up with headaches for some reason), and the message was JUMPING out of the cards. The sceptics responded by saying "It's nothing major, just some cards. Who wants to go to the pub when you finish playing?". Sometimes you just want to strangle them! :D

skytwig	09 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Dark_angel ...a session that my non-sceptical friends and I were using to study a strange piece of jewellery. We all looked at the cards and said exactly the same things, we all got the same feelings, even the same physical effects (we all ended up with headaches for some reason), and the message was JUMPING out of the cards. :D Oh, now you have my curiosity jumping!!! What was the message and what were the cards?

gareth.	09 May 2004
I was very interested to see these responses.The post from Lunalafey particularly interesting.If Skytwig correct and the power in the cards external then the other question I posed was about creation of new tarot decks.Is this simply the making of the same key?

lunalafey	09 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Astra Lunafey, the oddest thing about having a skeptic (capital S hard core) watching a reading is that many times you get nothing at all. I suspect it's not so much that they have faith that nothing will happen, but that they're scared spitless that something will - so they put incredible amounts of energy into making sure that nothing will happen that they can't discount. It can be disconcerting, to say the least. what I see here is thier energy influening your receptivity- The cards NEVER say nothing- they DO infact change the message from the one requested in certain or extream cirumstances- ie- having a Skeptic in the room. When feeling nothing from the cards- start with the basics, start with the Majors and just start with a "story" even if it does not seem to make sense. I would wager money that your words will strike a cord in the Skeptic, even if they don't show it.

Astra	09 May 2004
lunalafey - granted, I can generally get a good reading of some sort under almost any circumstances, but I must say that sometimes it's not worth it in terms of my time and energy. I got to the point where, if I had an idea the person I was reading for simply wanted a chance to do a putdown, the first question I asked was - does this person really want me to do a legitimate reading? If the answer was no, that was my answer to the querent. Sometimes just having that answer come up was enough to shake the person quite a bit.... gareth - the cards are just pieces of paper with illustrations (personal opinion). Newly created decks (like mine, plug, plug... almost in print...) work just fine unless the reader is "sure" that the only decks that work are the ones they are used to. There are thousands of decks out there, and I doubt if there's any of them that someone hasn't managed to do a few dynamite readings with. So browse among decks to your heart's content, and find the one or ones that seem to speak to you, and enjoy.

hyatt	09 May 2004
What great questions garth! As for the new decks, I think that if there is a connection it doesn't matter what you read whether it is cards, stones, tea leaves, or something you invent in your imagination. It is about channeling energy through a medium. I think the medium is secondary to the connection.

Cerulean	09 May 2004
with French suits. I've played card games with them for so many years. I never feel the urge to read cards like tarot if I have French suited cards with only three court figures similar to the bicycle decks for playing poker. I also have some double-figure, French-suited Italian commerative decks and they are more 'playing cards' than the tarot that I can read with--and I like historical decks, not necessarily with pictures on the suits. If I came across people who could do tarot reading with such decks, my questions would be curious and may come across as skeptical, because I know my learned associations are different than theirs. I've learned to associate stories and meanings with tarot cards that have Italian suits or pictures on them--but they may be duds to you. If you dislike the pictures in the Tarot of Dante or Ananda, for instance, it will be a dud for you. In all honesty, I believe that it took time for me to understand which tarot art decks looked good to me and appealed to me enough to play with the cards and find the associations meaningful. For instance, the Ukiyoe Tarot worked for me at first because the minor cards with birds and flowers worked with my associations of calendars with birds and flowers that are seasonally appropriate. The fact that the Asian calendar of birds and flowers differed from my American calendar of birds and flowers for each season wasn't a problem because I accepted the cultural overtones of Japanese art deck was a different set of stories than my Western schooling. I hope that learning process story helps...at least to show if you find art that appeals to you in a tarot, it encourage more patience and enjoyment in learning the associations of meaning... Best wishes, Cerulean

gareth.	10 May 2004
I realise Tarot simply a tool or a key Astra. I just think it exciting even on the simple artistic level that one can create these cards.I suppose you must maintain the basic pattern but can then let your ceativity take over. i will certainly look out for your cards!

The Question. thread was originally posted on 08 May 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.