Christian / Catholic Tarot Reader

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cleung	05 Jun 2004
I am just wondering if there's any tarot readers here are Christian or Catholic...? I was being brought up in a Catholic family, and for some reason most of my friends are Christian... Although lots of them would come for a tarot reading, but a lot of them feel guilty after a tarot reading. Some will even ask me why do I pray to God if I read tarot! I would like to know some point of view of Christian or Catholic who read tarot card.. .. what do you think about tarot reading, how do you feel about the possible impose conflict with the scripture.. (maybe?! I personally never found anything in the bible said no tarot.... I personally do not consider tarot a kind a magick) Any thoughts?

seneris	05 Jun 2004
I know someone who is a Tarot reader and was recently baptised. She wasn't raised in a catholic or christian manner, but she found out for herself that she felt at home there. I don't know if she's a member of Aeclectic.

Major Tom	05 Jun 2004
To my mind, though I would not describe myself as Christian, there is nothing in tarot that is incompatable with Christianity, indeed there is a long tradition of Christian hermaticism which involves the use of tarot. One organisation that comes to mind immediately is the BOTA which offers courses studying the work of Paul Foster Case, although they would consider the use of tarot for divination as frivolous.

Alissa	05 Jun 2004
A few threads on similar veins for you to peruse as well.... Tarot and Christianity Tarot vs. Religion Why is Tarot evil?

astril	22 Jul 2004
I'm catholic and I've practiced tarot for almost twenty years. I still go to church, confession, and the like, but tarot is in my soul. I really don't think God would condemn me for using it, and I know lots of Catholics who consult the tarot, but will not read. I think it is a gift from God to be able to be connected to the tarot. To be able to read the cards. I mainly focus on self improvement and the such, keeping away from future inquiries. Sometimes they peek through, and they always seem to be right. Follow your heart. God would want you to be open to the workings of your heart and mind. If you look to how Jesus taught, he said the golden rule was to love God above all else, and your neighbor as your self. I don't remember him saying there should be no tarot! Blessings, Astril

Kittaine	23 Jul 2004
When you do a tarot reading, I suppose you should think of it this way: you've been granted a tiny, microscopic part of God's infinite power. If you read about the future, well, that's all you do--read. You don't attempt to change it; that's still in God's hands.

tao51	23 Jul 2004
I have read Tarot for most of my life. I am a practising Catholic who sees no conflict between Christianity and Tarot. I believe in mysticism and feel that this is enhanced by my religion. I use Tarot as tool to understand the divine mysteries. My ancestors revered the Tarot as a spiritual gift.--Tao

metalwayz	23 Jul 2004
im a christian and a tarot reader.i love the tarot.im new here on this web site.its alsome.

Eco74	23 Jul 2004
..the first humans were brought to life through the breath (or spirit) of God. I grew up next to a church and am a confirmed christian, though not with the same show of faith that most "traditional christians" live by. The way I see it is; We all have a spark of gods devine power within us. While some can connect more with this spark and talk to god, get messages from him etc, others can not. Some can reach this devine spark and make use of its energy by means of reading tarot, runes, tealeaves etc. I am happy to count myself amongst these and can not feel that it is in any way wrong in sight of mine or anyone elses christian faith. Some purists feel that this is wrong, but the way I see it God created everything and everyone and I can serve him just as well by connecting to my "inner devine spark", take consideration to my fellow wo/man as I would by going to church every sunday.

Dark Inquisitor	23 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cleung I personally never found anything in the bible said no tarot.... Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 2 Kings 17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Ezekiel 12:24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel. Ezekiel 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Deuteronomy 18:14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. Jeremiah 27:9 Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon: Jeremiah 29:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed. Micah 3:7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. Zechariah 10:2 For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was no shepherd. Micah 5:12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers: 2 Chronicles 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. Nope. No problem. I don't see anything in there either.

astril	24 Jul 2004
The only thing I see as a conflict is that you are quoting the Old Testament, which Christ came to free us from. That is why we are Christians, we follow Christ, not the old laws of the hebrews. If you are jewish, you would have a problem with divination, because it is in direct conflict with those laws.I believe we are very ridged in our culture in the Christian faith. God did not intend for us to judge each other. Only we know what is inside our own hearts, and that is what we will be judged on. Not on what I know about you, only what I know about me. I think as long as we carry that faith and belief in God, we do not judge on another, and we love each other as we love God (which means no judging, no slander, no berating) than I think we are doing just fine, and that this is a gift, which we can use for the betterment of ourselves and others. God would not have made it if it weren't good. It lies in the hands of people who choose to make it bad and that is our own choice. That is why I refuse to tell the future with it. That is in God's hands. But I can ask him what the best course of action may be, or how I should proceed with any given problem by consulting Tarot. This could be the calming hand of God when life hands me unexpected catastrophes. This is the way HE consoles me. I choose to look at it as a gift. I have so few, and I know I truly possess the power to help others through tarot. All i need to do is open my heart, and believe in God's plan for me. Thank you for listening to me, I apologise if I stepped out of line. Blessings, Astril

Dark Inquisitor	24 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by astril The only thing I see as a conflict is that you are quoting the Old Testament, which Christ came to free us from. That is why we are Christians, we follow Christ, not the old laws of the hebrews. I am only an observer, not a believer. The people who call themselves Christian hierarchy of various denominations usually base their teachings on what is in the bible, old and new testament - using it to denounce tarot as the work of the devil, etc. Had they not believed this , for the past couple of thousand years I think churches would have been happily & greedily selling tarot decks and readings non stop. I think the general idea is that you are supposed to trust in Christ and let him lead you , not the tarot or anything related to the occult. All that is condemned . Christians are actively trying to interfere with tarot readers to this day . Other Christians pay little attention to what church hierarchy says , and go their own way . ( Which is also usually condemned. ) Others honestly don't know much of what is in the Bible . But hey- let's not forget the 11th commandment , "Do what thou wilt, for that is the whole of the law ." (lol !) (10 Commandments, Old Testament) I am still hoping a bunch of folks will pop down to their local church gathering and whip out some decks and report to me what happens. I am also still waiting for the announcement from churches apologising for the persecution of diviners of all kinds through the centuries and approving of the practice now. That will really cheer me up.

Shalott	24 Jul 2004
Disclaimer: I totally do not believe that Tarot is evil. I don't even believe in Satan, et al, but I used to be an Evangelical Christian, at which point, I threw the cards that I had made for myself (as my mom thinks it's evil so she wouldn't let me buy any when I was a kid) away, believing that divination was evil. Here's how it's generally justified: these methods that are prohibited in the Bible, anything other than prophecy which is given by God, not sought out, is not powered by God and is therefore powered by Satan. The difference between psychic ability and prophecy? I think it's generally believed that true prophecy is extremely rare, one of the Spiritual Gifts, and therefore the vast majority of psychics would be getting their info from...Satan. (I sound like the Church Lady!) Or they're just trying to rip ppl off. Also, Jesus didn't change or erase the Law of the Old Testament, He just made forgiveness accessible to all, via asking rather than all these animal sacrifices and such. This church I went to was not a culty, fringe group, they were fairly mainstream Bible-belty. Obviously an descendant of Puritanism, which those of us especially in the US, we can't get past their influence, their beliefs are still very much a part of our society, especially the way Christianity generally functions here. (Although I've been reading lately that they didn't set out to be a malicious, judgemental group, but it certainly turned out that way often enough.) However I personally don't really believe that Christianity and Tarot have to be at odds, one can easily believe that the answers one gets from Tarot comes from God. Unfortunately that would be contrary to the beliefs of most Christians I've known. Then there's the theory that Tarot was created by the Catholic Church in the middle ages, Kris Hadar say something along those lines on his site, and here I am reading "Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermetism" which quotes many reviews on the covers from members of the Catholic clergy. (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/books/meditations-on-tarot/) and here it is with the Pope: http://www.medtarot.freeserve.co.uk/pictures.htm

Dark Inquisitor	24 Jul 2004
Ooo- maybe if enough Christian taroists descend on their churches en masse and demand reform , they could get some kind of public statement that tarot is ok !! Wouldn't that be wonderful?? Then we could watch decks and readings being sold on Sunday !!

Shalott	24 Jul 2004
HA - and demand to see documents from the Vatican library! WHEEE! I'm afraid too many churches would see it as a slippery slope - if Tarot is OK, then what about Ouija boards and astrology (even tho the 3 Wise Men may have been astrologers) and I Ching and tea leaves? And UFOs for the love of Pete? Unfortunately, most Christian churches in my experience lump all of this stuff together.

astril	25 Jul 2004
You know, I think that the reason is that they would have to give up thier grip on people and the way they think. How many times have you been swayed by what you do because the church believes it was wrong? No matter how many times I knew it was for my best interest, I would let the thought of the church sway me. Not God, but the holy teaches of mother church. They are two different entities. I come from catholisism, and we don't believe in the infallibility of the bible, only the church. The church was founded by men, no women, men, and the books of the bible were chosen by men, I find it really hard to believe that there are women saints, except for the fact that then no women would be catholic! I am in the same camp as Dark Inquisitor, we should show up on Sunday and read our cards, maybe some minds would be opened to the possibility of God working in other ways.

Shalott	25 Jul 2004
Good luck with that, guys! :D

Dark Inquisitor	25 Jul 2004
I must add though, that you have to regard any claims by the Catholic church to have invented anything with great skepticism. They also claim to have invented most of the major holidays, the ritual of the mass, and "Saint" Brigid, to name just a few their little "appropriations " . Books reviewed by Catholic clergy don't mean that the church approves of or sanctions what they are doing.

jmd	25 Jul 2004
Neither does it imply the opposite. Individual priests may, through their own biasness, talk against Tarot, but I have also personally talked with some individuals who also happen to teach theology at the Catholic University here in Australia, and certainly from their own personal points of view, usage of Tarot, and divination, is not generally proscribed - it depends more on that or whom to which one permits to 'speak through'. There are certainly various views, but a 'church' is not its officiating priest (by whatever name). I wanted earlier to take the time to go through each of the quotes above and show that none of these imply that divination is forbidden, but have not found the time to articulate a clear reply... ...so permit me here to rather give an outline of a reply, and group various quotes together. Let me begin from the last given and move backwards. 2 Chronicles 33:6, Zechariah 10:2, Micah 3:7 talk not against either prophesising nor divination, but rather of those who do not correctly render either prophesy or word, and usually gives reasons (within the text) as to why this is so. Let's take one of these as example for further analysis (I have used the previously quoted version): Jeremiah 29:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed It does not say 'let there be no prophets nor diviners in your midst', but rather let the prophets and diviners who are amongst you speak the truth, and not deceive. Virtually all of the quotes against divination are of this nature. With regards to the early quotes (Deuteronomy 18:10, Jeremiah 14:14 or Ezekiel 12:24), the quotes need to be read quite clearly. They either specify against particular false claims, or connections with foreign methods of divination for a particular group of people, usually within a particular time. These are not Christian nor Jewish proscriptions against divination.

Dark Inquisitor	25 Jul 2004
I have to rely on what Christians have done through history , and what they say their book is about - so far most of them seem to say tarot is of the devil, not to be trusted , etc., and go out of their way to make sure that is pretty clear. They seem to want people to pray instead of use cards and other forms of divination, and to trust in the guidance of Jesus and the church . If all the biblical quotes against divination and other things like witchcraft were reinterpreted to mean the opposite of what Christians say they mean, would the majority believe it? Why is it important to have biblical approval of the tarot ?

Shalott	25 Jul 2004
Quote: That's not what I meant, I don't think the Catholic church would ever claim to have invented Tarot, some historical research leads to that conclusion, research that I don't think has ever been "approved" by the church. Here is the paragraphs quoted from Kris Hadar's site, one example, this paragraph stands alone, if you'd like to see it in context, go to http://krishadar.com/A/index1A.asp?na=n&pa=p, go to "Tarology" in the menu frame, Introduction, and scroll down just a little bit. Quote: I doesn't matter to me, personally, what the Bible says about divination, or if we unearth a document stating that "And the Lord told the Isrealites and the Gentiles not to go near Tarot cards for they are Eville." But the Christians I have known interpret these Bible verses on divination to mean just that. That's all I'm saying. I used to agree with them. The crux is that, if we could convince some of the well-meaning religious types who would pursecute us for using Tarot of what jmd has related, perhaps there would be fewer persecuting us, more acceptance and more ppl discovering the good that really is in Tarot for themselves. I seriously wonder if the religious, heck entire sociological, climate isn't quite diferent in the US compared to the rest of the Western/Christian world. I mean, take TV. I've seen European TV, they have to censor "naughty bits" for use over here, that are freely shown in Europe. Look at the whole Janet Jackson thing. I work in radio, I know how nuts the FCC has gotten since. (Hi, Michael Powell!) This is just an example of that Puritan influence we have so strongly here, and it definitely bleeds into use of any form of divination. Maybe the rest of the (Western/Christian) world is a bit more easy-going on this matter as well. I would take that as a "ray of hope" if this is an accurate theory.

jmd	25 Jul 2004
For the Christian, I would assume that what is important is to be sure that the usage of Tarot is not forbidden, nor the use of divination if that is the use to which it is put. In that sense (but obviously not for non-Christians who do not wish to see what Christians may have to say) it is important to consider what passages within the Bible seem to proscribe against Tarot. It is also quite interesting to see how certain kinds of Christians seem to view it as anti-Christian. My grandfather was a reader in a Catholic Church (just south of Paris), and not only did he have a Tarot deck (and use it), but one of his close friends, also a devout Christian, wrote Occult Science and Occult Sciences, in which a whole section is devoted to Tarot (the book is also mentioned in another strongly and fundamentally Christian work: Meditations on the Tarot). Eliphas Levi (Alphonse Louis Constant) was also a devout Christian whose influence on Tarot is astounding. That some Christians claim or hold negative views on Tarot remains their personal claims, not those of Christianity. Unfortunately, it seems that some consider those views as representative of either Christ or Christianity. To be clear between this distinction also makes it clearer and 'safer' for not only the Christians amongst us who may unfortunately live in intolerant lands, regions, or politically repressive regimes, but also for a more tolerant interaction amongst the many of us who have various spiritual and religious views. Here I support what Shalott writes, when saying (and I only paraphrase) that perhaps there would be less persecution amongst 'born-again' Christians if we clearly showed where they err with regards to reading more in the sacred text (ie, the Bible) than is actually there.

Shalott	25 Jul 2004
Yeah, jmd, I am truly refering to the Christian churches, and its members, that are in MY experience. I just edited my above post (to make it even longer) to add a theory that my experiences my be a bit more typical of America, particularly the Bible belty type areas. I NEVER would have gotten away with continuing to read my cards when I went to these types of churches, I may not have been thown out, but definitely shunned, and prayed for (which is a nice thought, but the Tarot-is-bad attitude is still there), and those who were my friends would have continously, gently, tried to convince me how dangerous the cards are. If I could find a Catholic church where I am who would accept my Tarot reading, I may not have many excuses not to check it out. But, I also think that Catholics are a bit more tolerant that the Bible-belty Protestants (I am generalizing). PS: I just started reading "Meditations on the Tarot," and it really is refreshing to read a POSITIVE Catholic/Christian view on the Tarot!

Shalott	26 Jul 2004
jdm, found this actually by accident, thought you'd find it interesting: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0109.html :(

acolyte	26 Jul 2004
Well I am getting round to reading some of those links.You see for me things get intersting.I live in Africa and no matter how modern people get they still have a strong belief in matters of the spirit.but the christian church has taken a very strong hold here and they do not take such things lightly.Tarot is not big here it is mainly consulted by expats and those in the know.anyway I am getting carried away.Tarot is a way for me to get in touch with the divine abilities within me.I did not do anything to have a deep intuition I just have one which is getting stronger as i excercise it.So for me to call tarot evil is to call me evil which I know I am not as I use my skill for the good of others.But that is my personal opinion not too factual.I'll give you something factualt after I look around,it's just that I do find most christians' judgemental attitude very irritating.

Dark Inquisitor	26 Jul 2004
I think it would be very good if more Christians were involved in the tarot -- that way at some point it might reach critical mass and there is a possibility they would stop persecuting the rest of us about it !! I also think a Christian Tarot forum section here would be very helpful to address the recurring questions that come up for Christians that come here struggling with their faith. There seem to be a lot of them. However, I see the Christian connection to tarot as similar to its' connection to Voodoo. On the Voodoo altars of the Americas, you will find the saints, Mary , Jesus displayed right along with the old gods. This is the result of Christianity trying to force Voodoo out of existence and finding they couldn't. The Christian statues were put there to appease the church officials, and because many of the practitioners were willing to use whatever power was available- all good. But it doesn't mean the church invented Voodoo or approves of it. You might find the odd rebel cleric Voodoo-ing it up, but that doesn't mean it is now a Christian free for all or a branch of Christianity.

jmd	26 Jul 2004
Two different religions are specifically that: two different religions. Tarot is not a religion, but it does arise within a community which has, amongst its members, one or more religions (specifically, Christianity - in various forms - and Judaism, and to a lesser extant other dualistic religions and others). Since those early days, there is no doubt that Tarot has also been appropriated for the working by individuals and groups of other religious views, of which the most dominant is undoubtedly the very open and accepting groups of neo-pagans (in their various forms). This does not make Tarot anti-Christian, but it has, unfortunately, lead some Christians to condemn Tarot because non-Christians have used it. This is the same kind of illogical thinking which has lead to other also unfortunate views on various books (an example is the banning of A Thousand and One Nights, an Arabic classic, from certain muslim lands). I will address the document to which Shalott links by next Monday - I just do not have the time before... In a nutshell, however, I consider it a reflection of the views of that individual, and a well-versed and thoughtful one at that, but not a view which would be acceptable by all theologians of the RCC, and certainly not presented without numerous weaknesses.

Shalott	27 Jul 2004
jmd, I've got to say I'm somewhat envious of your experiences with Christianity/Tarot, they've been vastly different from mine, and sound much more positive. The guy who wrote this article should just SEE the cover of "Meditations on the Tarot," what with all the positive reviews from Catholic clergy members!

Dark Inquisitor	27 Jul 2004
So your view then, jmd , is that Tarot was invented by Christians as a Christian tool (even though it is loaded with pagan symbols) and then pagans of various types took it up and the association made Christians turn against it?

Shalott	28 Jul 2004
Is the Marseille deck loaded with Pagen symbolism? All sorts of esoteric stuff, but I thought the Pagan stuff came later... Just adding a PS, Dark Inquisitor, until jmd returns!

jmd	28 Jul 2004
There are numerous 'pagan' symbols on the façade of Cathedrals - including that of Justice, of the signs of the zodiac, of the seasonal social engagements, etc - each of which of course pre-dates Christianity. This does not make these non-Christian, but rather more general symbols appropriated also within the Christian Church - and appropriated prior to or during the very same period of Tarot's emergence... or are Christian Cathedrals going to be argued to be non-Christian? In fact, I am yet to be shown a single card which does not depict what Christians may have held. So far, the only image I have personally not found within a absolutely clear Christian context in the Hanged Man - but Robert O'Neill reports on the find of the same on a painting within a Northern Italian Cathedral. Of course, Strength may also be understood as non-Christian, so may the Papess, and so may each and every card if one wishes it. The imagery, however, arises quite firmly within a Christian context. Show me a card which purportedly does not, and I'll do my best to present how it may quite also legitimately be found within Christianity.

Shalott	28 Jul 2004
I read somewhere, and of course I can't for the life of me remember where, that the Hanged Man could be symbolic of St Peter being crucified upside down. Does this sound familiar or reasonable at all?

jmd	28 Jul 2004
Though I posted an image of the same from the Cathedral in Strasbourg, the reversed Crucifixion of St Peter is not normally by only one leg - hence my comment about an 'exception' with this card. As mentioned, however, O'Neill has reported on a one-legged hanging from an image in a Cathedral.

Dark Inquisitor	28 Jul 2004
[quote]Originally posted by jmd [b]There are numerous 'pagan' symbols on the façade of Cathedrals - including that of Justice, of the signs of the zodiac, of the seasonal social engagements, etc - each of which of course pre-dates Christianity. This does not make these non-Christian, but rather more general symbols appropriated also within the Christian Church - and appropriated prior to or during the very same period of Tarot's emergence... or are Christian Cathedrals going to be argued to be non-Christian? >>>>It is no secret that many Christian places of worship were built atop pagan temples . The church made an effort to appropriate the symbols, holidays , and rituals they could not destroy and convince people to abandon to make it more palatable for people to deal with the destruction of their normal religions. When we look at a sheela na gig , we are not looking at a Christian symbol even though it is stuck on a Christian church. ****Show me a card which purportedly does not, and I'll do my best to present how it may quite also legitimately be found within Christianity. >>>>People can look at the tarot and see whatever they want . That is the genius of it. Holmes looks at it and sees Star Wars sometimes. It is a mirror . The best kind of mirror would not be specifically any one religion, but would be ambiguous and hence more universally accessable. No one says Christians can't use the tarot . Except other Christians mostly . They can also see whatever they want to in the context of their religion. No one can prevent that, since there is no real proof of anything. We are left with only circumstantial evidence, open to interpretation. However, I have many questions I have often wondered about . For example, since we are speaking of pagan- Christian symbolism, if we look at the Lovers card of the Tarot de Marseilles, we see plainly a pagan cupid at the top prepared to let the arrow fly. Since it is God that joins together what no man should put asunder, why isn't it God up there? Or Jesus? We have a plainly labeled Devil card, but why is there no plainly labeled God card? Or Jesus card? If you have in your possession a deck with a very plain image of the Devil in it but no God, might you not be thought in times long past that you are choosing the Devil over God? Perhaps even invoking the Devil?

MeeWah	28 Jul 2004
Shalott: See this link: http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/hangedman

Shalott	29 Jul 2004
Thanks, MeeWah, very cool, maybe it was the book with Visconti gold that I saw that...I'll have to scour my little liberry. :D

jmd	29 Jul 2004
In the Marseille deck, there is indeed a card which is iconographically an exact early depiction of Christ as Light of the World - and is even shown in Ascension with the representation of the four evangelists around the mandorla surrounding him: XXI the World. I am not suggesting that this is the way the way the card has since been seen, but rather that with this card, which follows the Judgement card, is a clear indication of the same. For an example of these two cards combined, I have attached an image (here linked) from a 15th century manuscript in the thread Card Sequence: XX - XXI. It is precisely these kinds of images to which I refer. With regards to the astrological and virtue representations on Lumiere Cathedrals, they are quite different to the gargoyles and the like which also form part of Cathedral depictions - and some of these of course as defamatory of other religions (unfortunately, in my personal opinion).

The Christian / Catholic Tarot Reader thread was originally posted on 05 Jun 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.