Discrimination against Tarot!
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Winewood |
23 Jun 2004 |
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I know that many people may not experience this problem as much as others may. But has anyone else found it hard being involved in tarot? ive found that ive been told by people who do know about my use of tarot to not tell others because its offensive. and also at school a religious education teacher found out some how and brought in a woman from her church to preach against it she told me i was in works with the devil etc. i have a strong belief in the tarot and for the short time ive been using tarot it has impacted deeply on my life, but at times i find it hard going. i would appreciate to hear other peoples stories and problems with becmoming involved in tarot.Thanks
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| Kahlie |
23 Jun 2004 |
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I haven't told anybody that much. Only sometimes when people asked because I would get a "feeling" and ask my cards about it and then predicted things...
When that happens and it comes true, after a while people start to wonder what is going on :)
I've had heard only 1 sad remark, and that's by somebody who doesn't even know what the cards are about...
There is a wonderful thread about if Tarot could be christian or not, you might enjoy reading it :)
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| Imagemaker |
23 Jun 2004 |
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We've discussed this a lot on AT. You're not alone, Winewood! Here's one thread:
negative remarks
There's also a thread called something like "finding live querents in a hostile environment" somewhere in Talking Tarot.
Many of us come here to feel comforted about the hostility about tarot and to figure out how to handle it. I like to think we're the evolved ones!
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| Winewood |
23 Jun 2004 |
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thanks alot, it really helps to talk to others who know the feeling! and i agree with sulis it does mostly stem from ignorance thanks for the thread links, ill take a look at them now!
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| Sillanza |
23 Jun 2004 |
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Winewood, the threads you've been referred to will contain the whole gamut of experiences. I've had reactions ranging from complete support and enthusiasm to "I thought you were smarter than that." I don't reveal that I read tarot to everyone, and I can usually sense when I should or not.
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| ribbitcat |
23 Jun 2004 |
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Hi Winewood -
I'm curious - I thought that schools weren't allowed to disseminate religious beliefs (or political ones) ; unless perhaps you go to a religion-sponsored school eg.St.Albans RC School ?
You may have grounds to formally complain about the actions of the RE teacher .....
ribbitcat
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| hedgecub |
23 Jun 2004 |
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Ribbitcat has an excellent point. I thought RE is supposed to inform students about different religious beliefs, not preach them. I don't know if it's different in Wales, but you could definitely look into the regulations and file a complaint if appropriate.
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| Kittaine |
23 Jun 2004 |
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Winewood, I went to a Fundamentalist Baptist school in elementary. Get this: While we were in the premises of the school, we were not allowed to listen to "worldly" music; i.e. pop, rock...you know, the stuff you hear on the radio. The Roman Catholic faith was often openly criticized by the teachers. If we disagreed with their religious views--heck, we weren't ALLOWED to disagree--we could be given as much as a suspension. If I had brought a Tarot deck, those bastards would've confiscated it--oh, they LOVED doing that--and given me all the Biblical verses on how tarot reading is the work of the Devil. I have nothing against the Baptist faith; I have even adopted some of its beliefs. But those people in the school were just soooo puritanical!
I thank God most of the people around me are open to tarot (it prolly has something to do with our social environment here). But there will always be those people who look at you as some hex-casting black magician. I think you should just be friendly to them still. :) You may be different, but that doesn't mean you aren't nice.
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| Livia |
23 Jun 2004 |
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I was raised Catholic, and is some ways it is the most extreem conservatism. In anthropology we learn that it is more times than not religion is the last part of a culture to change. However I need to remind myself of the mysticism in the church. The priest who baptised me also taught me about ghosts, and how they exist.
For the most part, though...people can be so rude. I have come to the conclusion that many (by far not all) religious conservatives feel like if they let someone else do something they feel is wrong, they will be punished. like sin rubs off/transfers.
I have decided to try using a book approach maybe teaching them about Jungian archatypes...
The bigest sceptics in my life are my 4 brothers (none of them know about my tarot studies, but is only a matter of time)...the funny thing is that I truly believe that my youngest brother is psychic, he always seems to call just when i a dialing him, or when I walk in the door, and the other day just after I started reading a numberology book he called and started talking about Madonna, Kabbalah, and "that numberology junk"
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| Winewood |
24 Jun 2004 |
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i dont go to a religious school, the RE teacher is just VERY anal about her religion, but i still think it was wrong of her to push on everyone else! she even got this woman to do a 'saving' prayer that would save us from ourselves and bring us into christianity and what not, i have nothing against people who feel strongly about their religions i would just appreciate it if it wasnt pushed onto me!!....needless to say i walked out of the class before i could be 'saved'. I would complain but theres no need because im entering a different grade next year where you dont get taught RE anymore unless its by choice.....
kittaine it must have been so hard going to a school as strict as that!!i dont think i could have survived!
also the people in my school dont agree with the tarot, and i believe that it is due to ignorance i have 2 friends that also do tarot and im almost certain we are the only people that do it in our school which makes it hard to discuss with everyone else so i dont.
thanks everyone for telling me about your experiences it makes me feel some how content knowing others experiences
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| Kiama |
24 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by Winewood
i dont go to a religious school, the RE teacher is just VERY anal about her religion, but i still think it was wrong of her to push on everyone else! she even got this woman to do a 'saving' prayer that would save us from ourselves and bring us into christianity and what not, i have nothing against people who feel strongly about their religions i would just appreciate it if it wasnt pushed onto me!!....needless to say i walked out of the class before i could be 'saved'. I would complain but theres no need because im entering a different grade next year where you dont get taught RE anymore unless its by choice.....
Hi Winewood,
I see you are in Wales, and since you are not in a religious school you have every right to fight this one: complain about the actions of this RE teacher... Not only did she force her beliefs on you personally, but from the above I'm guessing she also tried to convertt you and others against your will.
This is illegal, and not allowed in schools. That is does happen does not mean it is allowed to happen, so please please please make your headteacher aware of this- if needs be, write a letter of complaint to them, or get your parents to.
Even though you are entering a different grade next year and won't have to put up with her, think of all the other kids who will have to.
On a more Tarot-focused note, it is sometimes difficult being in school and using Tarot. But don't let this teacher put you off. Be defiant, and continue to use Tarot. Hell, school is a wonderful opportunity to start practicing giving short readings to others! They're your peers, and this makes it all the more fun. That's partly how I learned when I was younger. My little sister (I gave her a Tarot deck for Christmas last year, when she was 12) takes her deck into school every day, and most lunchtimes she gets requests not only from her friends but from people from other years for readings. (She insists it's a great way to 'meet cute guys'. I'm glad she's got her priorities right... }))
So, please don't let this discrimination put you off- continue Tarot, practice, have fun with it at school, and do something about this RE teacher who doesn't know the difference between teaching and preaching.
Blessings,
Kiama
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| hedgecub |
24 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by Kiama
This is illegal, and not allowed in schools. That is does happen does not mean it is allowed to happen, so please please please make your headteacher aware of this- if needs be, write a letter of complaint to them, or get your parents to.
Even though you are entering a different grade next year and won't have to put up with her, think of all the other kids who will have to.
I definitely agree. What your teacher did (or allowed her church friend to do) was absolutely disgusting, especially for a nonreligious school. Even if you're never going to have to see her again, plenty of other students will, and some of them will quite probably go through the same thing if they don't share your teacher's conservative Christian beliefs.
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| Winewood |
24 Jun 2004 |
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kiama and hedgecub your right it was wrong, i will write a letter to the school as i have finished for the summer now because my exams have finished. shes not even a proper RE teacher just a sub that they stuck in as an RE teacher because there werent any others. Thanks for your help and opinions they mean alot!
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| Khatruman |
24 Jun 2004 |
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This difficulty comes up continuously with no end in sight as to the misunderstanding of tarot by others. Those who do not study it misunderstand it. Because it works at such an amorphous level it seems magical (or IS magical, if you tend that way). In any case, that makes it scary to others, because it cannot be defined, ...
Especially amongst the religious, who are dealing with the undefined powers of the universe, it is a threat. Religion attempts to comfort by giving definition to the universe: a definable and comforting God or being to whom one can appeal and find a place and significance in the universe, to give some meaning to why this amazing thing we have called life comes to an irreversable end. Tarot can be seen as a challenge to the structure these religions have developed to comfort the flock.
Knowing this, I find it non-productive to whine about the fact that they misunderstand and condemn my study and wonder why they cannot just accept what I study. I empathize with their need to put the universe in order, and seek not to destroy the structure that they have set for themselves.
I haven't been personally confronted with this animosity, but I think that I would respond to it with sympathy. I understand your God, and seek not to harm you or others with my studies. My studies are for my own enlightenment. You have found your path; I am finding mine. Just as I will not step on your own path and seek to lead you off track, I hope that you respect my path. I believe in two truths: 1) trust in a higher supremacy in the universe which guides and nutures it, and 2) love our fellow beings and work together to love one another as best we can.
If the person cannot accept this, I will ask that we agree to disagree and take our separate paths.
Then you are left only with a decision on how to accept the reality: you can whine and wish it were different, which it is not, or you can accept it as a challenge to strengthen your own belief and understanding. Look at it this way: with the challenge of others trying to knock down your belief system, you are forced to strengthen your understanding to combat it.
It is like exercise. Excersizing does not build muscle; it breaks it down. Your body builds the muscle back up more strongly to combat the onslaught of the break down. This is what role the religious fanatic plays for you: he or she is the exercise that leads to your own build up in your studies, the catalyst to your own strength. Love and appreciate the role that person plays.
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| Winewood |
24 Jun 2004 |
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Khatruman, you say that you would respond by saying that you would respond by saying 'you have found your path i am finding mine' usually i would respond like that but as this woman was forcing her religion down my throat it was pretty hard to respond like that, when /if you ever experience this you will understand that its hard to think and act rationally when what you believe in is being questioned, discriminated, and called the 'devils tools'. thaks for your opinions and suggestions i'll take them into consideration next time im approached by some one of different beliefs.
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| Khatruman |
25 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by Winewood
as this woman was forcing her religion down my throat it was pretty hard to respond like that, when /if you ever experience this you will understand that its hard to think and act rationally when what you believe in is being questioned, discriminated, and called the 'devils tools'. Absolutely! I agree it is not easy, and I am sorry if my post implied it is a simple thing to do. I know also that not having been in the situation that I come off as a non-authority in the matter. However, I have experienced prejudice in other ways, and though it burns to hear it, one must train oneself to walk away from it.
If you thank her for the concern and turn on to other things, perhaps she will stop buzzing you. It is DAMN difficult to stabilize emotion this way, especially if you are a younger person. I would probably have responded just as you are if this happened to me while I was in my 20s, or even 30s.
Again, I am sorry if I am implying it is easy. It is not, and you have every RIGHT to feel angry, hurt, etc. However, the dividends for trying to subside these emotions, understand this woman's need and understand that it is a weakness on her part because she is not strong enough to leave your beliefs alone, are wonderful. Once you do so, it will also be easier to do so in the future.
Again, it is an offer of advice, which I thought you asked for. The bottom line is that religious fanatics will NOT stop doing this. It will be banging your head against a wall to hope that you will convert them any more than they will convert you. The only change you can make is your own attitude: the only thing in this world of which you have 100% control.
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| Winewood |
25 Jun 2004 |
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khatruman i know exactly what you mean, i am the kind of person that reacts quite sharply to people questioning my beliefs and views, now that i recognise my programme maybe i can start a 12 step prgramme, know any good one?you seem like a calm person!!hehe thanks for you opinions!
winewood
-x-
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| Kiama |
25 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by Khatruman
The bottom line is that religious fanatics will NOT stop doing this. It will be banging your head against a wall to hope that you will convert them any more than they will convert you. The only change you can make is your own attitude: the only thing in this world of which you have 100% control.
True, religious fanatics will not stop doing this, but it is illegal for them to do it in a non-religious school in the UK. You can change your own attitude, and that's great and necessary, but sometimes it is also good to take action to try and stop this sort of thing happening to others.
It is often easier to do nothing and forget about it than do something, but in many cases doing nothing is not the best course of action. How we respond to these sorts of situations is directed by our character. (Personally, I would have been straight up to the Headmaster's office with a letter of complaint, signed by those who witnessed the incident, and by my parents, because that's what I'm like.)
Kiama
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| Winewood |
25 Jun 2004 |
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i have really considered complaining since posting this thread, but ive come to the conclusion that it wont be taken seriously by anyone, i can imagine it just getting ignored and then the headmaster making some jokey coment about it when he sees me, i think ill just leave it be i wouldnt want to cause trouble and be singled out even more than i already am thanks everyone for ur brilliant advice!
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The Discrimination against Tarot! thread was originally posted on 23 Jun 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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