finding live querants in tarot-hostile environments

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

punchinella	02 Jun 2004
Okay, maybe I'm just paranoid. Maybe all, or even most, environments with people in them are not intrinsically tarot-hostile. But I was just discussing live versus on-line reading with someone via pm, & realized that I almost never read for anybody live, because I'm too intimidated at the thought of being stigmatized or mocked to offer my services as a reader to any but my closest friends. The fact that most of them take no interest whatsoever in tarot makes the search for querants to practice on frustrating indeed! In theory, I would guess that in a room of say ten people, at least five might take a casual interest in a tarot reading. But (here in North America at least) it's equally likely that one of the ten would be offended, or at least seriously belittling/derisive. And fear of that one prevents me from connecting with the five! I know there have been threads on similar subjects recently (for example, the thread on significant others who don't appreciate tarot). But I thought a discussion of, specifically, strategies for connecting with querants for practice might be timely. I can imagine that finding querants might be significantly easier for younger readers--if I picture myself back in high school, or living in a dorm, or following the Grateful Dead around in my purple Pontiac Grandeville--well, back then there would have been no shortage of querants available to choose from :joke: But finding querants now is quite another matter. Who wants to be stigmatized at work? --And yet, what other way is there to connect with the people one ought to connect with? I'm just curious to hear your thoughts & perspectives.

tmgrl2	02 Jun 2004
So glad you started this thread, punchinella.... As an off-shoot of my thread where I was panicky about getting asked for a relationship spread in a live reading...of which I have done about 6...that's exactly what happened with my first non-family, non-friend reading. I have been gradually saying to small groups of people at work or wherever..relatives (I mentioned it to my closest cousin who is a bit older than I am..only to find out she and her daughter and her daughter-in-law regularly see psychics and have had readings! and we have been close for the past 27 years...I mentioned Tarot to them and this whole topic blossomed at a mother's day brunch) Anyhow, I recently made a conscious decision to bring up the fact that I read Tarot and am looking forward to reconnecting with the psychic work I did when I was younger...each time I have done this I get exactly what you said...lots of questions...some skeptics...some afraid to have a reading because of what they might here...so I do a lot of Talking about what Tarot is and isn't..sort of putting out the education about Tarot into my mini-world...I'm not sure, but one of our elders mentioned once, that we are in part responsible for "carrying the message" if we wish Tarot to become more accepted. (maybe jmd..forgive me if I am wrong) Each of the two times at work that I mentioned Tarot and we discussed it, two individuals asked me outright for a reading. This is what I am looking for. I did both of them...and as I mentioned in my "terror"of relationships spread, the one I did about a week ago, which I thought was ok...got some positive feedback at the time, but today, that same person was all bubbly about how amazing what I said was...how she never really looked into the areas I suggested during the reading and how "true" and "necessary" they were...she was thanking me...Last week, all I cared was that I had done it and pleased I didn't get bonked over the head with some verbal flaming... I hope others share their early experiences...I have read some in other threads, but now may be a good time to open this again in a new thread... Umbrae, Diana and Temperance Angel were quite instrumental in giving me the nudge to get out there and read. And, Umbrae, btw, I am going to get up the nerve this summer when my friend comes in from Wisconsin with her first deck, to casually sit at Starbucks and pull out our decks and read for each other and see what happens...I'll feel braver having someone with me...since my friend is even newer than I and wants me to give her some help (LOL)...she is very intuitive and in circle of three closest friends/soulmate-type. terri

HudsonGray	02 Jun 2004
Maybe it would help to think of it as their problem & not yours. That way it softens any blow & really, you're not out anything. People feel free to say what they don't like all the time-- foods, exercise, political parties, football teams, men in general, women in general, joggers, mimes, etc. None of it would impinge on you personally, so another's idea that tarot is horrible/evil/sucks only reflects their attitude, not your abilities & your personal deck. Since the people will be strangers to you most likely, why give them more power over you than they deserve to have? Just blow them off (in your mind) and move on -- you'll be sure to find others who are interested, would love to have a reading or generally talk about tarot decks they've got. Don't stress it so much.

Alissa	03 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by punchinella But (here in North America at least) it's equally likely that one of the ten would be offended, or at least seriously belittling/derisive. And fear of that one prevents me from connecting with the five! I'm just curious to hear your thoughts & perspectives. And five people lost out on the light and the hope they needed, because of the fear of one. Not even the reality of one, but the *fear* of it. Fear is a projection. Fear is your mind trying to control the situation (i.e. what they will think of you). Fear tells you that if you act one way, you can control how they will perceive you. True, or false? Hold a mirror up to the one who criticizes and don't accept their negativity. Sure, they may ridicule you. Let them. The person who calls you, or talks to you in the staff room privately to set up a reading.... that's the person you should be projecting about instead. Imagine that... there's this person, the one you thought *might* be into Tarot, but Might Not.... And you have your cards at work, and they see them, and you say, "Are you familiar with Tarot?" And you read for them, and to their amazement, the answer they needed to hear comes straight from punchinella's mouth, right when they needed it. And punchinella gets to use the Gift, and even possible gain a moment of Right Action in life. It sucks to be made fun of. I know. People have found me odd for a long long time. I've learned to simply agree with them, and fly low, avoid the radar with the ones who are simply "rabid" and unable to be reasoned with ("Tarot Cards are for Satanists~!") They are usually quite set in their mind, I don't talk to them much. The quickest way to end an argument is to agree. If it becomes an issue for your work, don't take em out there. Dont advertise it if you're uncomfortable with wearing "your Tarot on your sleeve," but please... don't hide your gift either. We need you :)

Astra	03 Jun 2004
One of the things that I've found when I pull out cards at a party, or a bar, or a convention, is that, when I've got ten or fifteen people who've come up and said "can you do me?", the occasional skeptic tends to look rather silly against the mob of people who think it's interesting. Perspective, always perspective.

magpie9	03 Jun 2004
I've been meaning to share this for a while... A friend and i go out to a Soup'r'Salad place in my neighboorhood once every month/6 weeks or so, and always finish off our meal with reading for each other. The last 4 times we've been there, we've been approached by the wait staff and other workers for readings, which we do. We have a great time, get reasonable feedback, and perhaps do a little good. The funny thing is, I suspect that if we went someplace more "hip" like a bistro or coffeebar, no one would approach us at all! I don't really know if it's the kind of place we go to, or that there are 2 of us and we look harmless. (relieivly, anyway..) It's also been good for both our reading skills and comfort level --there's nothing like doing 4 readings in a row, when you hadn't planned on more than one. Great practice and great fun. :)

punchinella	03 Jun 2004
Hmmn, maybe I just need to get out more :laugh: Seriously, maybe it's just that I'm not generally in 'loose' enough environments (like, parties & bars). The rare party that I do find myself in is usually a high-tension sort of affair, I can't remember the last time I actually went to a party to relax. & work environments, well, I can see this becoming a real issue (contentious indeed) once I become a high-school teacher, so it's probably best not to even try & go there. Magpie, your Soup'r'Salad routine sounds just perfect! Maybe after I move (to California) I'll find a tarot friend there, & we can try this as an experiment. I wonder about tarot 'groups' as well. How many of you belong to such a group? (I know there's one in Mass., contrascarpe talks about it & I'm so jealous }) )

Umbrae	03 Jun 2004
Coffeshops (like Starbucks) can be good places… But bars…Ahhh that’s the bread and butter. I don’t personally like yuppie bars, but nice blue collar bars, regular folks…that’s the ticket. Use a deck that’s already a mess…not your fav – it’ll get spotty, you'll have to use that stuff I talk about on it. It's going to be your bar/coffeeshop deck. Get a drink, sit down, do a three card spread, and pull out your notebook and write a page on each card…or better…see if you can write three pages before you get approached. Of course your answer will be, “I’d be honored to read your cards….” As a new bar reader your price is twice that of a double shot of call whiskey. Remember to tip the bartender WELL if you want to be welcome. You know those threads about prediction or projection? It’s very tough to project on strangers. And that’s where the fun is. Reading for family and friends sux… Oh and Punchy-baby…get out more. And tmgl2…why wait. Go out and start writing…three pages (tee hee hee).

starsongs	03 Jun 2004
In Cincinnati where I live there are quite a few restaraunts, and coffee shops that have regular readers. Not every day, but maybe one day or night a week. A few local metaphysical shops employ several readers and astrologers each.. Readers are showing up at community events and art shows with booths like other vendors and are not exclusively working the 'psychic fair' circuit. Many places are open to it, and I've never found any that mind if my friends and I bring out our cards in their places of business... We have been approached in family restaurants like Perkins to do readings for employees. Its never been a problem. Try taking your cards with you, Punch, and see what happens.. :D We are more mainstream than before LOL Almost makes me wanna turn to something else ;) just kidding! starsongs

lunalafey	03 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by punchinella I can imagine that finding querants might be significantly easier for younger readers--if I picture myself back in high school, or living in a dorm....following the Grateful Dead go hang out at a healthfood cafe near a campus and sit with a muffin & tea and study your cards- betcha someone will come around- make yourself a regular, cuz if they are too shy to ask at first, they most likely ask if they see you again {cuz ya' know they will be kicking themselves later like they did when they chickened out} All it will take is that first person & being there once a week or so. People will see the reading you do- then ask for thier own... as long as you don't ask for money or ask people to read for them- the cafe should not have a problem.

tmgrl2	03 Jun 2004
All good ideas! I do carry a deck with my now...actually two... Also there is a local metaphysical shop that has readers in on a weekend night, I believe. LOL, Umbrae, I don't have any "old" decks, yet, but I try not to drop any cards....I wish I could do a bar, but it's off limits to me ...I have just finished celebrating 14 years of sobriety...functioned and didn't drink during day, but drinking was not healthy "relaxation" so I stopped completely. I just try to avoid bars, but have nothing against anyone who goes or drinks...just wouldn' t work for me...Not don't worry, I'll find a "place." Right now, it doesn't bother me when people are skeptical or negative when I bring it up. I expect that. Maybe because years ago, before computers, I read live with other "tools." I just respond to the ones who are interested. I feel that even if I give them some good information about what Tarot is and isn't I am doing some good for Tarot. The ones who want the reading are the ones I move on to. punch is right....I only brought it up at work because I am retiring, but it could be a problem...so after next January, I'll be out of that environment. I do agree that the only way to get into it is to get into it. Takes time...no rush. But I'm doing it and loving it so far. terri

tmgrl2	03 Jun 2004
Another question. At the psychic fair, all the flyers said at bottom, "For entertainment purposes only." Anybody else use a disclaimer? This was universal here ....people worried about being sued? or what? terri I have a little talk about how I read while we are getting settled...asking about interaction....notes.... Also does anybody say outright anything to effect that they don't predict death, sickness, births, etc....many people have a fear of hearing something that will scare them.. My cousin, who goes fairly regularyly, said, the psychic told her her father-in-law would die by fall....he did...I was somewhat concerned about that...she said..."Oh no, that's why I go, I want to know the 'truth.'" I didn't pursue the discussion too much at that point...What do you all say in this case...re expectations for divinatory answers? terri

Alissa	03 Jun 2004
As I understand it, "For Entertainment Purposes Only" is the phrase that allows readers to avoid being nabbed in places with Fortune-telling laws. If there are laws against practicing divination for hire where one is located, they can bill themselves as an "Entertainer" instead. No laws there, and often no need for a permit either.

Staramber	03 Jun 2004
I read somewhere that you have to say that in some parts of America. Right now I carry a deck everywhere, maybe two. I don't go to bars because I don't drink and I get very nervous. I don't go to many parties and I only ever usually go to college. I'm not a 'social person'. If I'm at a family party I'll drag my cards out and give readings, it helps me calm down a little. At college I usually start shuffling after I have eaten dinner or if we are sitting outside someone usually asks and, again, it stops me from being nervous. When I'm picking my brothers up from school I usually play around with my cards. I use it to deal with feeling out of place. The only people who ever say anything are complete idiots who like the sound of their own voice (not to sound like everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot but these are the type of people my Gran calls 'thugs'). Sceptics tend to be polite about it and let me get on. Same with religious people. In one of my classes there is a strict Muslim and a strict Christian, they let me read but don't get read (and one even gave me a deck that they received as a gift and can't use) After being bullied constantly for being odd in high school I thought it would be worse. It's fun really, I get to help people over come my fears and bore people by telling them about it. Have fun, someone will be annoyed by everything.

Summerdream	03 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 Anyhow, I recently made a conscious decision to bring up the fact that I read Tarot and am looking forward to reconnecting with the psychic work I did when I was younger...each time I have done this I get exactly what you said...lots of questions...some skeptics...some afraid to have a reading because of what they might here...so I do a lot of Talking about what Tarot is and isn't..sort of putting out the education about Tarot into my mini-world...I'm not sure, but one of our elders mentioned once, that we are in part responsible for "carrying the message" if we wish Tarot to become more accepted. (maybe jmd..forgive me if I am wrong) Each of the two times at work that I mentioned Tarot and we discussed it, two individuals asked me outright for a reading. This is what I am looking for. I did both of them...and as I mentioned in my "terror"of relationships spread, the one I did about a week ago, which I thought was ok...got some positive feedback at the time, but today, that same person was all bubbly about how amazing what I said was...how she never really looked into the areas I suggested during the reading and how "true" and "necessary" they were...she was thanking me...Last week, all I cared was that I had done it and pleased I didn't get bonked over the head with some verbal flaming... And, Umbrae, btw, I am going to get up the nerve this summer when my friend comes in from Wisconsin with her first deck, to casually sit at Starbucks and pull out our decks and read for each other and see what happens...I'll feel braver having someone with me...since my friend is even newer than I and wants me to give her some help (LOL)...she is very intuitive and in circle of three closest friends/soulmate-type. terri Good for you Terri! It's amazing what happens when we come out of the "tarot closet"....lol. I work at a school too and don't discuss it with the staff, but I have a best friend teacher there and so I thought I'd tread lightly and mention psychics. Comes to find out she goes to psychics also and tarot card readings. As a matter of fact, she wants me to do one for her. She said, it's a good thing I don't let people at the school know I do readings, because they would all be coming out of the woodwork and wanting one! LOL. We have a local Barnes and Noble that has a cafe' and that would be a good spot to dig out the cards someday when I go there with a friend and test the waters. I'm glad for you and please let me know more about your readings and how it went. I'm very interested. Summerdream:)

tmgrl2	03 Jun 2004
Another colleague came looking for me today "begging" for a reading...Maybe they will come out of the woodwork...but I work in a school...Since it's nice out, maybe we can go outdoors. terri To be safe, until I know "laws" in New York, I say it's for entertainment before I do a reading... Mimers may know...any other New Yorkers out there who read live for pay ? and know the law re this? terri

Imagemaker	03 Jun 2004
I always thought the "for entertainment only" was to protect the reader from liability. If the querent takes action based on the reading and something bad happens, s/he could sue the reader for negligent or harmful advice. Ever have a querent come back and say accusingly, "you told me . . . !" ? Not personally, but I've heard stories.

Moongold	03 Jun 2004
There is a market here which is open every Saturday morning. You have to pay for a table there but it doesn't cost a great deal. I have often wondered what to would be like to sit there as a tarot reader and just read. Haven't got quite the guts to try it myself yet but often think about it. Who knows?

tmgrl2	03 Jun 2004
That's what I thought too, Imagemaker...that it was merely to protect anyone from suing you in a civil court for damages. But we may actually have laws in NY about Fortune Telling. I'm going to check it out.. Moongold, I don't think I would have the nerve now to read in public...but I feel ok where I am right now, just taking readings as they come along and putting out information about Tarot... and enjoying it. terri

lunalafey	03 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 To be safe, until I know "laws" in New York, I say it's for entertainment before I do a reading... As long as you don't take money- a reading is nothing more than a heart to heart talk with a good friend. Look at it this way- bartender/tarot reader as a bartender, I give lots of advise & opinions- When asked; I don't offer it- no one can sue me for poor counsel.... as a student of tarot, if someone askes for a reading and you give one, then there is no fear of the law.... money- money....it's when money is involved that you have to watch out. and the way around that, the barter system.

Nitewindz	03 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by punchinella [b in theory, i would guess that in a room of say ten people, at least five might take a casual interest in a tarot reading. but (here in north america at least) it's equally likely that one of the ten would be offended, or at least seriously belittling/derisive. and fear of that one prevents me from connecting with the five! [/b] Well my mother would be the one in ten who is horrified at Tarot or anything else that is not part of her strict religion. So I understand your caution. In work or business settings, I wait until I get to know a little bit about someone before I mention Tarot or my unconventional beliefs. I don't say anything to people who express religious views that frown on Tarot. And I try to avoid environments where I am surrounded by hellfire and brimstone Bible thumpers like my mother and her friends . But in my experience, by and large the general public is either very interested, mildly amused, or completely disinterested. To find those who are interested, put yourelf in settings where those sort of people are likely to be. Renn faires, street fests, summer markets, science fiction events, magick shops, and, of course, psychic fairs . Shops might let you put a card up on a message board, or set up a table in a small corner or out on the sidewalk in front. Renn faires and psychic fests sell tables or booths for a fee, some also have rules on how much time you must spend at your table (nobody wants to attend a fair of empty tables and booths!). Street fests and summer markets may have spots where you can spread out a blanket and sit on the ground or set up a little table for free. Get out there and have fun!

HudsonGray	03 Jun 2004
Oh man, speaking as someone who used to go to 7 conventions a year, I can verify that if you go to a science fiction con/event & set up an area--people will flock to you! Best to do the readings after supper when most of the programming is finished (after 6pm), you'll get your best run of people between then and 2am!

magpie9	04 Jun 2004
This thread is doing a wonderful job of helping me remember some of the odd places I've been approached for a reading..... I think the weirdest was in a laundromat, the next oddest was in a hospital room. I agree with Lunalafey when she says that the problems about reading come when money enters the picture.It's either the Law or the Stress. In the past when I have read for money, it's made me a whole lot more tense than I needed to be....like I owed the person a total and complete accuracy and had to somehow solve their problems! When I do it for free and at the moment, it frees me and I believe I give a better reading just because I'm more relaxed. Also, I like the idea of karmic Return and "what comes 'round goes 'round". By not keeping track it seems like what i need is there when I need it, ...including readings from others. ;0

Lady Mary	04 Jun 2004
It's a very interesting thread, as the situation seems to be completely different in Europe. I've never been at conventions, etc. (so I don't know about these places) but I like going to Cafes, bars and restaurants. And I sometimes do readings for my boyfriend, other friends or myself at these places, or we just discuss cards or a new deck. But NOBODY has EVER asked me about the Tarot cards or a reading. It's not about religion here (guess the few fundamentalists here are not hanging out eating and drinking :D), just that it's generally very uncommon to approach someone and start talking. So I think if I tried to find "volounteers" for readings I could sit there with my cards FOR EVER and no one would ever ask me. I only had one negative comment about Tarot. I did a reading for my boyfriend and the waitress approached us snapping at me: This is not a place where you can play cards. I couldn't help laughing as the cafes here were absolutely FAMOUS for people (artists) hanging out and playing cards! So much that the guests replied to the waiter's question what he should bring them: "A new pack of cards and a glass of water!"

tmgrl2	04 Jun 2004
Excellent help, everyone. Luna...you are probably right...I don't charge for my readings ..at least now..so no worries. I assume that others of you who read at fairs, conventions, cafes, book stores, metaphysical shops, do charge. That's the area I need to check out, just in case, I go down that path at some point later in my late life. All good suggestions. Fortunately, people I work with know me well. I have been there for 26 years, except for a two-year stint elsewhere. Even the younger staff members come to me, as I said , for guidance with work and professional issues. They just seemed "surprised" that I, of all people, am also into Tarot. My role has been one of being a co-teacher but also an administrator. It's fun to watch their expressions and answer their questions of curiosity about Tarot. At least, the information is getting out there! terri

punchinella	04 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 They just seemed "surprised" that I, of all people, am also into Tarot. My role has been one of being a co-teacher but also an administrator. It's fun to watch their expressions and answer their questions of curiosity about Tarot. Oh, that's just grand. I hadn't pictured you that way before: a school administrator, into tarot. Thumbs up, & keep up the good work!!! :D :D :D

tmgrl2	04 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by punchinella Oh, that's just grand. I hadn't pictured you that way before: a school administrator , into tarot. Thumbs up, & keep up the good work!!! :D :D :D ROFLOL at my end here...today we had an all day Committee on Special Education Meeting..( I have had several days in a row) and by Noon, my friend next to me, a social worker, and I were discussing our mutual interest in Tarot. By the time the Chairperson returned (between parent meetings) we had the Gilded Tarot on the board room table spread out and other colleagues were asking for readings. We all folded over in laughter when our Chairperson sternly said, "Put those away, the next group is coming in. I'm terrified of having one of those readings." We whooped even louder when Mary Ellen, my buddy next to me said, "I guess we'd better not use the mood rings either to decide the next placement." Anyhow, I was asked for three more readings during the day (in between meetings) . Of course, I had no time now, but they are starting to line up. My other friend, who came in later in the day, my best friend...said, "Oh boy, they should know in the Middle School that you read." I said , "Why, would they be horrified?" "You've got to be kidding, " she added."They'd be lined up around the block for readings." This is getting better by the day... So at day's end, MaryEllen asked if she could at least pull one card from my Gilded Tarot for the weekend (this friend of the mood ring suggestion)...so she pulled ....THE LOVERS! We laughed even harder, when she turned to our chairperson and said, "Well, I'm on committee again Monday...but I think I might be in late and tired." This is so much fun....just talking tarot with my peers at work. BTW...everyone was so impressed with the beauty of the LE Gilded Tarot! terri

starsongs	04 Jun 2004
Terri, Awesome! What fun! And you found so many persons interested.. :D :D :D :D starsongs

Summerdream	04 Jun 2004
Terri, Good for you!!! That is great that everyone is so accepting of tarot and sooo many wanted their own readings. I'm glad to hear that you used the Gilded too. Perhaps you should start getting a commission from all the people at your work who will now want a Gilded of their own....lol. Keep us informed! Summerdream:)

punchinella	04 Jun 2004
:laugh: OMG, that story is so incredibly funny, & happy too. Sounds like coming out of the closet is working out well (to put it mildly) When you officially retire, maybe you can hand out mood rings as farewell gifts . . . you don't want to go handing out too many Gilded decks, that might interfere with your own future practice!!!

purple_scorp	04 Jun 2004
I don't have any stories about being swamped to give Tarot readings, however, I do recall sitting in the staff room at work (also a school) and reading somebody's palm, only to see ten other hands shoved under my face with people saying, read mine, what does mine say, etc. I believe that people are going to judge you, no matter what you do or do not do. It is human nature. The trick is to love yourself enough to not worry about the opinions of others. When people criticise me, it is usually from a point of ignorance, and when this is pointed out to them, they usually back away. Cheers purple_scorp

tmgrl2	04 Jun 2004
Thanks all for your feedback and for starting this thread, punchinella...right now, I am having too much fun to even care about the naysayers....or end result of reading...just getting into it and loving it! tmgrl

Alissa	05 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by purple_scorp I do recall sitting in the staff room at work (also a school) and reading somebody's palm, only to see ten other hands shoved under my face with people saying, read mine, what does mine say, etc. Me too! I've learned to be almost surreptitious about palm reading, if I don't want a gaggle of interested onlookers, and me-next'ers lining up. And I don't even mention it at parties, unless I'm prepared to read for the rest of the night for everyone (and usually for free).

The finding live querants in tarot-hostile environments thread was originally posted on 02 Jun 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.