So what about horses? (knights)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Indigo_lady	02 Jun 2004
I've decided that I'm way too stuck on the study of tarot so perhaps I'll start posting threads out of nowhere to see if that brings back some of my imagination, opens my channels or something - and hopefully help other people on the way ;) I decided to brainstorm on the cards that I pulled out, so here are some thoughts (I apologize if anyone finds them ridiculous, but my brain is not that deep lately, you've got to start from somewhere, right? ) I was shuffling the card (Robin Wood) and I pulled out the Knight of Pentacles. So I started thinking about it Time ago I was told that I would meet someone that had to do with horses, at the time it sounded somewhat absurd. Now that a lot of strange things have happened it doesn't seem that absurd, but a bit on the far off side. 1. Don't you think that the horses might as well be a symbolism for cars? (haaa.. there you have a question to start a thread on its own) 2. Look at the 4 knights all together. Doesn't the K of Pentacles look amazingly boring next to the other 3? He's the normal guy, boy next door kind of thing. Kind of lame if you think about him Look at the other 3 guys. They excert so much energy: thunder, water and fire, they are in the middle of movement, they look like they're fighting. Then look at the knight of pentacles, he looks like the guy who's delivering the newspaper (no offense to anyone.. :-p) It is true though that the pentacles are not the most action packed of the suits. I decided to look up the meaning. "someone with an adventure spirit; with great potential but that does not use it; adventure seeking, player/gambler; an important event; travelling related with business" overall, focusing on material things. business and news concerning this two things So is he the guy that walks around with the business suit, every hair in place and on top of everything? Would you go out with him? (personally I wouldn't, but that's just because I'm a commitment freak trying to undergo my own 12 step program, nevermind)

MeeWah	02 Jun 2004
Knight-Pentacles is a good right-hand man. Solid, dependable, responsible & practical; able to carry orders out. What he lacks in imagination he makes up for in commitment & a can-do attitude; a willingness to go the extra mile. Can be appealed to or inspired by the risk of something rather than the imagination per se (the gambler instinct); however, within the former is his expression of the whimsical. Yes, I would go out with such a fellow--simply because of the possible complimentary interaction/sharing.

lark	02 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Indigo_lady of Pentacles. [/b] (personally I wouldn't, but that's just because I'm a commitment freak trying to undergo my own 12 step program, nevermind) [/b] Well if you want commitment the Knight of Pents is exactly who you should be dating. Not that fickle Knight of Cups or the "bad boy" of the tarot deck the Knight of Wands.

HudsonGray	02 Jun 2004
I had the Knight of Pents come up in a relationship reading for someone & 'knew' without a shadow of a doubt that he was sitting on a 'dead horse' (look at those eyes on the animal). Not only did he get lost in the woods (oak leaves stuck in the mane) but he wasn't moving forward at all. That only applied for that reading, the card has come up many times & usually follows a theme. But then again, on the other hand there's that plowed field he's standing next to that shows potential for the future & the horse IS solid & steady, not surging forward with abandon, fully trained & patient. I look at the Kn of P as a dependable boyscout type of guy. He won't own that Porshe, he won't sweep you into adventure, but by god he'll always be steadfast (sorta like the Tin Soldier in a way).

Astra	03 Jun 2004
The court cards of Pentacles also have a strong Masonic background - the knight "stands foursquare" - so there's also the hint that here's someone who's quietly and solidly involved in an esoteric tradition. Yes, I'd go out with him, although I wouldn't expect fireworks and adrenaline rushes. (At my age, I'll forego the adrenaline rush for something solid, in any case.)

Catpaw	03 Jun 2004
I think of the Knight of Pentacles as one who knows duty and honor and will sacrifice his own desires to keep faith to his family and duty. He looks over the fields that he sowed and can acknoeldge the fruits of his labor have paid off in plenty of money, security, and bounty. But he longs for something else, but alas his personality is one of deep loyalty and devotion to duty. When you need the truest of friends to stay by your side, he's the one. Catpaw

Indigo_lady	03 Jun 2004
"I had the Knight of Pents come up in a relationship reading for someone & 'knew' without a shadow of a doubt that he was sitting on a 'dead horse' (look at those eyes on the animal). Not only did he get lost in the woods (oak leaves stuck in the mane) but he wasn't moving forward at all" This is a really interesting point, I think that is the difference that pretty much describes the difference that I was seeing between him and the other 3 guys, it's kind of being stuck on a dead end, another way to put it "The court cards of Pentacles also have a strong Masonic background - the knight "stands foursquare" - so there's also the hint that here's someone who's quietly and solidly involved in an esoteric tradition" I didn't know that, I've always associated the 3 and the 8 of pentacles with the masonic tradition, especially the 3. I thought the court cards might have a connection as well, but I hadn't really talked it over. How do you think the other pentacle court cards relate to the masonic tradition?

WolfyJames	04 Jun 2004
When I read Rachel Pollack's Seventy-Eight Degrees, she made me noticed things about the Knights and their horses, in the RWS. Both Wands and Swords Knights have runner horses, for action. Both are in an active position as well. But the Cups and Pentacles Knights have these fat slow horses, and both characters are in passive position, the Knight of Cups is lost in daydreaming while the Knight of Pentacles is more focused. For the Pentacles, she said that it was the world of the Empress. The Empress is quite sensual and voluptuous, so I also view the court cards as sensual people (along their other qualities). They might be steady and stable on the surface, but they hide a steamy side. They are more seductor than they look, and they might be as frivolous as the Knight of Cups if they want to. The King and Queen in the other hand are more stable than the Knight, more loyal (fidelity?), but not the Knight.

Umbrae	04 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Astra The court cards of Pentacles also have a strong Masonic background - the knight "stands foursquare" - so there's also the hint that here's someone who's quietly and solidly involved in an esoteric tradition. A lot of Masonic imagery creeps into the post 1909 decks. The 7 of wands, the High Priestess, The Chariot, Death… The thing to remember is that in a Masonic Lodge, the north side is ‘dark’, and is not represented. Thus, East – South – and West represent human attributes – and the North – what we make of ourselves, our results. Now Crowley (also a Mason) moved his Knights above the kings. Remove the knights completely, and you have a 52 card Mamluke deck. Add the Majors and the 4 knights, and you have Tarot…How come nobody ever looks at the knights as the lost cards of the Major Arcana? But then, would there be three or four lost cards…?

Astra	04 Jun 2004
>How do you think the other pentacle court cards relate to the masonic tradition?< Indigo Lady, my first basis for this came from a friend who pointed out that (in the Hoi Polloi deck at least) the King of Pentacles is sitting with a pair of dividers in his hand, open at about 40 degrees, which is the top half of the primary Masonic symbol. Whether or not the initial cards had this association, it's been one of my primary associations for the pentacles Court ever since.

Inana	04 Jun 2004
Knights are probably my favourite court cards, so I cant resist to comment a bit here. :) Comparing the four knights activity and inner nature, I find: Pentacles – Is very slow, rational, practical, reflexive, defensive. Cups- Is slow, emotional, idealist, reflexive, defensive. Wands – Is fast, emotional, idealist, impulsive, aggressive. Swords – Is very fast, rational, practical, impulsive, aggressive. So the knight of pentacles is the less active and the slowest of all them, BUT is the most enduring and resistant, which can be a very good thing in the long run. He is like a rock: solid, patient, persistent, willing, responsible, cautious and methodical. What he offers is security, not fast growing or big changes. His nature is more a defensive one. He doesn’t seek challenges, he prefers stability. He is not easily angered and you will not see him acting cowardly in a difficult moment or trying to flee. He values honour, and what moves him to progress is the need for respect. If he says something will be done, it will. At times he can be very pessimistic because of his high sense of reality and prevision. He can seem boring because his adventure spirit is smaller than the one of the other knights, but he will pay attention to all small details and knows how to appreciate beauty. He can be really stubborn and perfectionist. Economically, he stands for himself, lives accordingly to his possibilities and doesn’t like to have debts with anyone. He is very loyal so always will help a friend or a loved one if is needed. If we are speaking of this knight as a situation, then the things aren’t moving and i totally agree with the dead horse thing. Hard work is needed to make any kind of progress. Can any of you explain a bit more about those Masonic symbols in the pentacles suit?

Indigo_lady	07 Jun 2004
about the masonic symbols in the pentacle suit While reading the DaVinci code it mentioned that the secret societies that had developed from the templars and similar (thus including the freemasonry) held the pentacle in very high importance. Originally it was a pagan symbol that stood for female sexuality and the importance of female in our universe. According to this book these groups look up to women and give her a much bigger role in their believes that what we are used to. (though if you think about it, freemasonry is not originally very open to women, but anyways...) (which I guess is linked to what Wolfy James mentioned about the Pentacles being the realm of the Empress, the mother of all mothers) I higly recommend this book by the way, it explains A LOT about symbolism around us. So that's one thing I have the robin wood tarot. In it both the 3 of pentacles and the 8 of pentacles make emphasis on craftsmen and education, which are two very important aspects of freemasonry. The 3 of pentacles is a card traditionally believed to be out the entire tarot the one that most clearly indicates a link to freemasonry in a reading. I also have the Witches tarot from Ellen Cannon Reed. Again here the several cards of the suit bring up the subject of craftsmanship and education, and perhaps stronger in this suit that in my RW, it makes emphasis on the idea of passing on traits from one generation to the other, importance of family or clan, tradition, and that is also something very important to freemasonry I wish I had access to the Deck Astra is talking about Knight - templar knights, the ones that were supposed to look after the heritage and protect the temple, so it makes perfect sense that in something influenced by freemasonry they'd be higher up Now Umbrae, what is this thing about the North? I'm not quite understanding it. And, sorry for my ignorance in the area, but I also got lost in the part about the Mamluke deck.

Inana	08 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Indigo_lady I also have the Witches tarot from Ellen Cannon Reed. Again here the several cards of the suit bring up the subject of craftsmanship and education, and perhaps stronger in this suit that in my RW, it makes emphasis on the idea of passing on traits from one generation to the other, importance of family or clan, tradition, and that is also something very important to freemasonry This idea about generations and family sounds like the ten of pentacles. Thanks for sharing this info Indigo.

lunalafey	08 Jun 2004
Knight of Pentacles = Cowboy! Think about it.... I think of Taurus with this guy, and as far as the horse goes- what guy whould be most connected to an animal? A man of Earth. He spends most of his time on the range and sleeps on the ground. I find it funny with the above mention of speed- 'very slow'- hee hee....most cowboys I have met speak slowly.

Indigo_lady	08 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Inana This idea about generations and family sounds like the ten of pentacles. Thanks for sharing this info Indigo. Not only In that deck you also have the 9 of Pent and the 3 of Pentacles that are pregnant women, and remember that the 4 of pentacles can also be related with inheritances and it is not strictly money talk

Inana	09 Jun 2004
Didnt know about the pregnant women in that deck. I dont own it. But sounds as an interesting way to portray those cards, especially for the 9 of pentacles. But i can see how the pentacles in general are related to inheritances, tradition and generations. Is the most lasting and perdurable suit.

The So what about horses? (knights) thread was originally posted on 02 Jun 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.