Reading With No Question...a Discussion

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

tmgrl2	17 Jul 2004
Last week I went to a Tarot Reader, who was more of a psychic medium. He used the Tarot cards, but said he was never schooled to use any of the "traditional" meanings for various decks. He used the Morgan-Greer, set out a CC and began by telling me he was channeling my mother. From there we went into an interactive reading. He was quite good at his art. Along the way, I did note some quite traditional explanations for cards drawn based primarily on RWS (Waite) interpretations ala Golden Dawn. Today, I was reading through the Kris Hadar information regarding The Tarot on Kris's website. In one chapter, Kris talks about the three areas that concern all of us: Love, Career, Health and proceeds to show how everything is covered by these three life topics. Since each sitter is a new "case," the art of reading is that of finding the particular context which personalizes the client. He goes on to say: Quote: Pseudo-clairvoyants who ask at the beginning of a session, "What would you like to know?" have altered this art.....It is easy to say anything when a person is expecting an answer....When we remain vague, the client will necessarily adapt what the reader is saying to his reality.....how easily one can manipulate an individual. A good Tarot reader will discover the reasons that motivate a consultation by himself. We should remember that a Tarot reader should not be afraid to be precise, not only because he wlil influence the client, but also because he will give him verifiable elements, which will helphim take charge and modify his destiny. He later says: Quote: Never forget that we are what we think. Even if someone's destiny is vague, it is possible to give a precise divination in the short term, because his future is in the process. Regarding destiny, note that we always live the same type of events. Indeed, circumstances or the wrappings may change, but the context revolves around the same motives! There are troublemakers who are always where they shouldn't be. Events have to do with who we are, and also, because we don't do anything to change them. I am still thinking about this. Rather than go further, I thought I would start a post so others could add their reflections and opinions about reading for a sitter with no question as the usual practice rather than seeking a question or area of concern prior to the reading.

Ace	17 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 In one chapter, Kris talks about the three areas that concern all of us: Love, Career, Health and proceeds to show how everything is covered by these three life topics. Since each sitter is a new "case," the art of reading is that of finding the particular context which personalizes the client. Mostly I would agree with this, but sometimes people ask about money troubles (that are not always career related) or family (parents or sibling) issues. Where do these fit with those three catagories that EVERYONE asks about? I don't always remember to do it, but when asked for a "general" reading, I try to ask the cards what the question is. Or ask them to "give me something positive for the querent." If I am at a party and working fast, it does help to have ONE question to work on, answer that and move on to the next person. And sometimes it takes time to figure out what they really are asking. Even if they are asking about Love and Career (and yes, 99% will ask about either or both of them) The answer is not one that can be answered by one answer. I tell them to tell me which one first? It probably won't be appropriate to say, "I see a cute guy who gives you a raise."

tmgrl2	17 Jul 2004
Ace, I had the same thoughts: Kris covers all with these three umbrellas: Quote: Love: The person is in a relationship or is single. If he is single, either has taken the vows, has or still is living a drama (separation, divorce, death, health problems), or he hopes to meet someone. With experience, you will be able to look at comeone and detect whether or not if there is a person dear to the client. Career: The client has a job, or lives from investments, or yet has a spouse who allows him/her to be at home. If he works, he is expecting a promotion (or a raise), is thinking of changing jobs, or is in the process of losing his job. If he does not work, he is either looking for a job, or is enjoying living at the expense of the spouse. Health: The person is ill, or wants to find out about a health issue, or as it happens quite often, is worried at the idea he might be sick one day. And so, money falls under "career." I have like the "general readings" I have done. When I don't have a question before me, my mind is free to roam with the draw and the spread. terri

mota	18 Jul 2004
To remember the important topics remember MATCHES... M- Money A- Ambitions T- Travel C- Career H- Health E- Expectations S- Sex/love Then you just adapt...travel could be long trip/short trip, long time at destination/short time at destination. To do a reading with no question just deal the cards and read what is in front of you. If you get stuck, just scan the word, "MATCHES" and a pattern will become rapidly apparent.

tmgrl2	18 Jul 2004
I like that, Mota! Some of my live sitters don't really have a question. Also, both readers I went to recently didn't ask for one. The last one asked me toward the end if I had a question I wanted him to read. terri

ros	18 Jul 2004
Many times I don't ask if the client has a question and by the end of the reading it comes out. They may start asking questions when I get to a certain point in the reading. Sometimes at the end of the reading they tell me their questions and how the reading had give them a different outlook. Also some people don't have questions, but they do once you get into a reading!

tmgrl2	18 Jul 2004
That's what I have seen so far, too, ros. My friend who was here for a week asked to me to do a relationship question. I did it. I find that works, too, when I hold the question in my mind as I look at the cards. The interaction that develops in a reading I feel good about is what makes it special. terri

Seed Crystal	04 Aug 2004
I never ask the people to tell me what their question might be; in fact, I say "if you have a specific question in mind, think about it, BUT DON'T TELL ME WHAT IT IS!!! After the reading, if you want to tell me, that's fine - but you will get more out of this if you don't tell me your question, or more than I am on track, or you don't really see how that card relates." I also tend to encourage people to NOT use a question as a focus unless they have a burning issue; I encourage a "what should be my focus? what should I be aware of?" kind of approach. And I always talk a lot about choice, and how changes of perception and awareness can empower one.

juju	04 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mota To remember the important topics remember MATCHES... M- Money A- Ambitions T- Travel C- Career H- Health E- Expectations S- Sex/love This is really a great idea! The only one I am lost on is Expectations however. Can you clarify what that means?

Aun	04 Aug 2004
As long as reader and querent both have a respectful and receptive attitude when shuffling, it really doesn't matter if a question was asked or not. It all depends on the reader's skills/intuition for an accurate interpretation of the cards...

Shalott	05 Aug 2004
Hey, tmgrl! Are you back, or only on semi-sabbatical? :D I seem to recall somewhere in Kris Hadar's site where he says that it is important to have a subject addressed. I can totoally see a general reading, no prob. But one time in the Your Readings forum I attempted to assist someone who had a lot of Pents/Wands in their reading so I assumed it was about career and it totally wasn't. So, I mean, in an instance like this, I can see at least get "love" or "career" or the like from the Querant. But that's just my opinion!

tao51	05 Aug 2004
Many times I have shuffled the cards during a conversation with the querent. Then I start my spread. For those who know me, understand the way of the Tarot. Rarely do the cards miss. I have not always done a reading in this fashion. I began with the querent posing the question then the shuffle and spread. I do readings without any question. The cards are simply giving understanding of a direction. I have had people feeling relieved of a burden after such a reading. --Tao

tmgrl2	05 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Shalott Hey, tmgrl! Are you back, or only on semi-sabbatical? :D I seem to recall somewhere in Kris Hadar's site where he says that it is important to have a subject addressed. I can totoally see a general reading, no prob. But one time in the Your Readings forum I attempted to assist someone who had a lot of Pents/Wands in their reading so I assumed it was about career and it totally wasn't. So, I mean, in an instance like this, I can see at least get "love" or "career" or the like from the Querant. But that's just my opinion! Yup! I'm back ...not as many posts...working some.. I actually work both ways ...with or without a topic or question. I printed out some of Hadar's material...it says can't print, but I was able to print...He says: Quote: Even if everyone finds themselves confronted with the same issues (Love, Career, Health) the reader must find the particular context which personalizes teh client, and that is indeed an art. Pseudo-clarivoyants who ask at the beginning of a session.."What would you like to know?" have already altered this art. It is easy to say anything when a person is expecting an answer. When we remain vague, the client will necessarily adapt what the reader is saying to his reality. A good Tarot reader will discover the reasons that motivate a consultation by himself. By implication, I take his whole section on The Client to hint at NOT asking the querent for a question. Earlier, he says Quote: So let us agree that a Tarot reader must never go beyond the subject of the consultation, and he must never use the power he has to convince others of his own beliefs. After reading all the material on Hadar's website, I get the idea he is not in favor of having the client formulate a question, or give a topic, that if we, the readers, are good enough, we will "divine" the subject, since everything (acc. to KH) falls under three categories. Again, please don't take this to mean I agree with this or operate that way. I am much more "in the moment" whenever I do a live reading. At the end, there are always surprises in how I went about the whole process....from shuffling to drawing, to reading to spreads chosen. If someone has a question or subject, I go with that. If not, I do a general reading to the best of my ability. Someone recently asked if they could tape the reading. I think I am more comfortable with Umbrae's approach of giving them a pad if they wish to take notes.... terri

Shalott	06 Aug 2004
I found the quote it's kind of isolated, but I think I took him out of context, it's in a section about learning card interpretations. WE SAY IT AGAIN: BEFORE ANY INTERPRETATION YOU MUST ALWAYS ESTABLISH THE SUBJECT MATTER! (Yeah I love how it says no copying or reproduction allowed, but you always actually can! Hopefully he won't fix this problem as I've printed off every available page for my Marseille file, and certainly want to continue once he starts the courses again in the fall!) :D

Umbrae	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Matches? We doan need no stinking matches… Wait…never mind. I prefer reading without a ‘question’. If they have one, I sure don’t want to know it – for god(dess)s’ sake don’t tell me…. That’s when we start getting away from divination and into projection (unless that’s your reading style – nothing wrong with that – I suppose. I still respect Mojo because he was up front about his style, rather than hide behind spiritual denial). I mean really…read the cards…they’ll tell you all you need to know.

Anna	06 Aug 2004
It seems that the more I trust myself as a reader, the less I need to be given questions, and also, the less I need spreads. I read for a new friend recently. He is so open and gets so involved in the readings, its great! When I'm reading for other people, it feels a lot like being invited into their home. With some people I get the impression that I'm allowed to sit in the living room and admire the decor, but with my new friend, its like "come on in, riffle through the drawers, you can even look at the mess under the bed!" Anyway, I was trying out a large general spread on him, and I started to pick up things about a change of career he had planned that he hadn't told me about yet. I told him about the field he was hoping to train in, and that it looked like a very positive change for him. At the end of the reading, he showed me something he had written on his palm before the start of the reading: "new career, should I go for it?" I'd somehow answered the question without knowing there was one. Had to laugh though; when I asked him what he'd of done if I hadn't spoken about the career, he said he'd have sneaked of to the bathroom and washed the ink off!

tmgrl2	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Shalott I found the quote it's kind of isolated, but I think I took him out of context, it's in a section about learning card interpretations. WE SAY IT AGAIN: BEFORE ANY INTERPRETATION YOU MUST ALWAYS ESTABLISH THE SUBJECT MATTER! (Yeah I love how it says no copying or reproduction allowed, but you always actually can! Hopefully he won't fix this problem as I've printed off every available page for my Marseille file, and certainly want to continue once he starts the courses again in the fall!) :D LOL...I assumed WE must establish it by "intuiting" that it falls in one of the three categories he mentions....it really is somewhat vague, then...to me at least. Oh well. Maybe Diana can e-mail and ask KH this... terri

Umbrae	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 Maybe Diana can e-mail and ask KH this... I wish Diana would just write the Hadar book...or translate it (same with Tarot Du Chat)... [font=papyrus] [color=gold] hint hint nudge nudge wink wink[/font][/color]

Diana	06 Aug 2004
Kris' courses are up to know devoted to his remarkable Thematic Spread. I think that one cannot make a universal rule about something that he has designed very specifically. He says somewhere in Course 17 or 18 that later on one will not need to even ask what the theme is.... and that all that will be explained in future courses. Which have not yet been translated. But for us neophytes, it is better to know the subject matter. (Well, that is what I have understood). Subject matter does not necessarily mean specific Question. I have not e-mailed him about this. I am still waiting a reply from something I asked him yesterday about the "eggplants" :D . Don't want to bother him too much. He is still recovering from his operation. Tarot Course 18 is ready to be posted in September. As to translating books... it is a very complicated procedure once a book has been published in French. The reason these French books are not translated are due to practical, sometimes legal, as well as financial reasons. And not out of a lack of interest from the authors. If you want to blame anyone, blame the editors and publishers.

Major Tom	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Which have not yet been translated. But for us neophytes, it is better to know the subject matter. (Well, that is what I have understood). Subject matter does not necessarily mean specific Question. Is this the secret? I learned this year's ago when I would read using only the majors from the RWS. There's only so many questions though. My favorite was always the spiritual. ;) Quote: Originally posted by Diana The reason these French books are not translated are due to practical, sometimes legal, as well as financial reasons. And not out of a lack of interest from the authors. If you want to blame anyone, blame the editors and publishers. Come on! If you just went ahead and did it, what would happen? :eek:

Diana	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Major Tom Come on! If you just went ahead and did it, what would happen? :eek: Do you know how long it takes to translate something properly? A professional translator, i.e. someone who has studied and has all the dictionaries and technical know-how, takes approxiimately 8 hours to translate 5 A4 pages. Can you imagine how long it would take to translate a whole book? With no guarantee of being paid in the end???? Who has that kind of time?? The reality of the publishing world is not as easy as one thinks. And there are LOTS and LOTS of rats out there.

Major Tom	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana The reality of the publishing world is not as easy as one thinks. And there are LOTS and LOTS of rats out there. Couldn't you do it yourself? ;) Please don't use that evil word. :joke:

Diana	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Major Tom Couldn't you do it yourself? ;) Please don't use that evil word. :joke: What do you mean by "it"? Translate a French book into English???? Tom: I have two jobs and a family. Do you think I have time to translate a book? I would need to get paid so I could stop at least one of my two jobs. What evil word? Rat?

littlehermit	06 Aug 2004
Would it be cataclysmically awful, legally speaking, if a group of amateur translators started collaborating - a page or two here and there - on rendering into English some of the French Marseille texts out there, for our own reference? i'd be game...

Diana	06 Aug 2004
I think you would have to get permission to translate whole chunks of books. There are copyright issues involved. Good news: I have accepted to translate Alain Bocher's CD-Rom for him. It will take a long time though, because I have very very little spare time. I hope to finish by the end of the year. Georges Colleuil and I also have some plans. :)

tmgrl2	06 Aug 2004
Diana....I totally understand what you are saying about translating, let alone publishing. Each one is a maze. I can translate. When I do just pieces of the books I have in French, as in maybe a page or two, it takes me a long time. First I read quickly for overall intent. Then I need to look up some words since it is clear there is an intent to a string of words that is not readily understood by a "literal" translation of a word or two. Then there are the idiomatic expressions. Sometimes, I take an hour or more to feel I do justice to a page or so. Re: Kris Hadar and "knowing subject" versus" knowing question," I gathered that knowing the subject meant it could help initally OR that if one is doing a spread, the subject may "come forward" during the reading. If I do a mind, body, spirit or PPF I don't look for a question at all. I guess I am becoming more comfortable reading with or without a subject or a question. Certainly, if the sitter has a subject or question in mind, I go with that. If they seem clueless as to how we go about it, I do a general reading and use the cards, trumps, pips/suits, positions and do my best. terri Diana....I know what you mean about "extra" work. I work full-time during the school year. I don't know in summer how I do it all and take care of my husband as well. Even when I retire and work a few hours a week, consultant, I'm not sure about getting involved in any "major" commitments, which a translation would be. I hear from friends that even their volunteer work can "take over" their lives. There is also research that volunteer work taken to the extreme time-wise ...especially in an area involving emotional drain, takes a great toll, more so on the "older" population who feel that in retirement, volunteer work is an ideal situation. So...I understand. It's frustrating for those who wish to study the Tarot de Marseille, e.g., and feel that some of the best material around is in a language they don't understand. Thanks for everyone's input. terri

littlehermit	06 Aug 2004
Perhaps it would be possible, though, to secure permission to translate up to one chapter - at least that's how much is allowed by the CanCopy rules here in Canada.

Diana	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by littlehermit Perhaps it would be possible, though, to secure permission to translate up to one chapter - at least that's how much is allowed by the CanCopy rules here in Canada. That could be possible perhaps. But it would depend on the laws of each country, I imagine. I think each publisher would have to be contacted first, just in case.

littlehermit	06 Aug 2004
Probably so. I suppose if a consensus were ever reached about a particular chapter of a particular book that it would be useful to share, the publisher could be contacted and go from there. Mostly, I'm just being a silly because I haven't gotten to do enough French-English translation lately, and I'd love to work on something like this.

The Reading With No Question...a Discussion thread was originally posted on 17 Jul 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.