Tarot vs Christianity
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| AmbitiousMind |
12 Jul 2004 |
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As a tarot reader I believe that it has helped me grow to become more spirtual. I am also a religious person and know that alot of religious people who don't accept tarot as it conflicts with their beliefs.
A friend of mine stated, "Some may argue, that Christians can still rely on TAROT (As we rely on the Bible) as just another form of guidance... But the two ideologies are NOT compatible."
I had no argument prepared for this so I did not reply. If you have any insight on this please share.
Thanks!
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| Little Baron |
12 Jul 2004 |
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I wonder, if the Bible had been a picture book, would there not be many simularities? It is the mystery in the tarot that scares people; the ambiguous characters and possibilities. If the Bible had have been a picture book, I am sure, like the tarot, many people would be as skeptical as they are about the cards.
Both offer guidance and people use that guidance and lessons in which ever way they choose.
Yaboot
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| Sillanza |
13 Jul 2004 |
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I don't know if the tarot contains the concept of vengeance, which i don't think is compatible with what Christianity claims to be anyway. I could go on, but then this would be a very different thread.
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| Indigo Rose |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Yaboot001
I wonder, if the Bible had been a picture book, would there not be many simularities? Yaboot
Thank you Yaboot for this beautiful thought. As a Christian, I see Tarot as God's picture book expressed through the creativity of humanity. The Bible teaches us we are created in His image. If one believes in Him, then one realizes that HE is the Creator. As His reflection, we are also creators. I believe the creation of Tarot came about through Divine inspiration and a humankind's desire to connect to God. Many Tarot deck's are rich with imagery that comes directly from Holy Scripture. Tarot is the story of humanity as we journey through the temporal realm to reach the eternal.
As a Christian, I would like to offer my thoughts on the roots of widespread Christian rejection of Tarot. Many Christians are afraid of the Tarot. Many do not understand it and have nothing more than movies and myth as their source of information.They are warned by teachers and preachers of the faith that Tarot is a sin. There has been a link made in the mainstream between Tarot and Satanism. Given this information it is not hard to see why Christians run from any further knowledge of Tarot; after all to the Christian, Satan is the enemy of God. However, Tarot does not have it's birth in Satanism. While Satanists may practice Tarot, it does not belong to that entity. Tarot belongs to humanity. In addition, many are warned that Tarot is divination and that divination is forbidden. This comes from the Old Testament, where the Hebrews were forbidden from divination. However, this is taken widely out of context and is under the old Jewish law; of which Christians are not bound. Case and point is that under this same law the Hebrew people were forbidden from eating pork. I dare say you won't find many Christians who see themselves bound to that law. Misunderstanding really is at the heart of most people's rejection of Tarot.
I live my life with Christian faith and enjoy using Tarot on my journey; not as a replacement for God; not in competition with God, but rather as a source of inspiration for a deeper relationship with Him. For those who ask, I freely share my beliefs; but I don't wave my Tarot flag in the face of fellow Christians because I know this may hurt their faith. We are taught in the New Testament not to cause our brothers and sisters in Christ to stumble. Those of us whose faith allow us to study Tarot, must not abuse those whose faith does not.
Having said all of this, I will end by saying Tarot and Christianity are not at odds with one another. It is Tarot and many uninformed, and unenlightened Christians that are are odds. However, I believe as humanity moves through the age of enlightenment misunderstandings of Tarot will diminish and more Christians will find their way to this beautiful gift.
Blessings,
Indigo Rose
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| jmd |
13 Jul 2004 |
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...now I wonder why the claim was made the 'the two ideologies are NOT compatible'?
Also, I understand the ideology of the Christian - but what is meant by the 'ideology of the Tarot' in that person's mind, for to me, the two arise from the same spiritual 'space'.
In a nutshell, the 'ideology' of Christianity is articulated by Christ quite succinctly when he was asked what are the greatest of commandments, in which he replied (Matthew 22:34-40):Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second resembles it: You must love your neighbour as yourself. as also he similarly said in John 13:34:love one another; you must love one another just as I have loved you. It is by your love for one another, that everyone will recognise you as my disciples. [this 'new' commandment is a rephrasing of an old testament one.]
Now I personally fail to see how Tarot is incompatible with this - or an accurate description of the impulse of Christianity - any other biblical quote, for that matter.
Tarot itself depicts in image-form quite Christian forms. Of course, these same are similarly found also outside Christianity (such as the concepts of time, of Justice, of Strength, of time, &c.) - that these are also found amongst non-Christians does not of course make Tarot incompatible with Christianity, any more than finding and discussing Justice in the works of Plato (approx. 500 BCE) entail that Justice is non-Christian.
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| SongDeva |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by jmd
but what is meant by the 'ideology of the Tarot' in that person's mind [?]
Good question! Does this person have any knowledge gained from personal study, or personal experience, particularly concerning "tarot ideology"?
I'm am so sick of people that have opinions, usually very negative, about things they know nothing about. Not "they are the scum of the earth" sick, but "God it's tiring and irritating" sick. ;) Fear and ignorance are not impressive credentials for a so-called expert.
My apologies if this person is an exception, but it's still a rampant disease.
*hands Diana her soapbox*
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| fyreflye |
13 Jul 2004 |
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In what way is Tarot an "ideology?" Ideologies limit your possibilities and close you down. Tarot and many other approaches help you to see possibilities in your life you hadn't considered before. Perhaps that's why so many fear it.
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| SongDeva |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by fyreflye
In what way is Tarot an "ideology?" Ideologies limit your possibilities and close you down. Tarot and many other approaches help you to see possibilities in your life you hadn't considered before. Perhaps that's why so many fear it.
Good point; it encourages thinking outside the box, or the bun, depending on who you ask. ;)
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| Necromancer |
13 Jul 2004 |
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I think that christans can rely on tarot. my grandmother is a christan and I do tarot readings for her all the time
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| tao51 |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Tarot reading is a method of understanding mysteries. It is not a god or a religion. The images on the cards are not deities. There are many Tarot cards based on Christianity and other religions. I feel many religious people are drawn to spiritual tools. Frankly, I show respect for nature and recognize God in all living things. I am not bound by words. I worship God in a formalized church. I also worship God outside. I do not feel that Tarot Cards are dangerous to the tenets of Christianity. --Tao
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| ros |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Tarot vs Christianity are both mysteries.
The same but different.
They both are forever learning, and a way of life but from different angles.
(Thanks tao51 ~ mysteries)
Just 2 cents.
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| TheLovers2 |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Indigo Rose:
Here! Here! Extremely well put. You are very knowledgeable of the Bible and the importance of the distinction between the Old (the Law) and New Testaments. However, knowledge alone is not enough; without wisdom and understanding to go along with that knowledge. You, obviously, possess all three.
There is a scripture that says, "we should have our speech seasoned with salt." Yours is an excellent answer to fellow Christians adverse to the Tarot. As a Christian myself, I believe that what you said is very balanced.
Thanks so much for your input.
TL2
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| cricket |
13 Jul 2004 |
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*going back to one of the first posts*
The Bible WAS a picture-book - before it was printed. The stained glass windows of older churches show different scenes from the bible. They tell the stories. That's how people learned them before literacy was widespread.
IMHO, those stained glass windows are much the same as tarot cards. People see things in them that they either want to see or need to see, and can find the answers to various questions in them. Each person's individual ability to do that varies depending how in tune with everything else they are. Tarot decks are just a little easier to tote around than a church wall. ;)
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| Indigo Rose |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by TheLovers2
Indigo Rose:
Here! Here! Extremely well put. As a Christian myself, I believe that what you said is very balanced.
Thanks so much for your input.
TL2
Thank you TL2 for your kindness and acknowledgment. It is nice to see another enlightened Christian here.
Blessings,
Indigo Rose :)
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| deedlit420 |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Okay.... i'm catholic, and at first was very nervous, when at a friend's house, was asked if i wanted a tarot reading from said friend's mother. I was incredibly worried i would go to hell, so i turned it down.... later the idea of my friends souls burning in hell got me so nervous i broke down in tears during class, so my friends decided to take me to one of my religion teachers, a benedictine nun, to discuss it. She actually approved it, noting that unless i let the cards become a false god to me, its not technically bad..... 4 mths later, i still read quite well. Recently while reading my bible, i found a reassuring passage in one of the letters from the apostles (forgot which one, sniff) sayng that some have gifts of tongues, some have gifts of prophecy, and some have gifts of healing, and that we should use them. I see tarot as using both healing and prophecy (in the loosest possible sense of the the word) and have embraced my God- given talents in these fields... in some ways i think god led me to tarot.
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| Logiatrix |
13 Jul 2004 |
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Tarot is a tool.
The Bible is a tool.
So is a rosary or a prayer shawl or an altar.
They are all tools that help me to connect with the Divine as I believe.
I do not rely on the tools.
I rely on my God/ess.
:)
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| Sillanza |
14 Jul 2004 |
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Thanks to both Indigo Rose and deedlit420 -- you both noted wonderful passages to use when reassuring nervous friends.
Especially thanks to jmd -- that's what I've been saying for years! It's amazing how lost the basic teachings of Christ have become.
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| TheLovers2 |
14 Jul 2004 |
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jmd:
Thank you!
LOVE. That is exactly what I keep talking about to my fellow Christians. I have found, unfortunately, that there is so much finger-pointing when it comes to what one might call, "the popular sins." The ones that people focus on. My focus is on love, first and foremost and that is what I haven't seen quite enough of.
The reason this relates so much to Tarot and what is in my heart is because these same people are the very ones who will shake their heads in disdain and judgement at me doing Tarot. Yet, they so conveniently forget the first Commandment when it comes to how they treat another person.
This is a sad commentary and something I really have a problem with when I see it in some of the people (Christians) I know.
The Scriptures do say that "if you have not love, you are as a clanging cymbal." If they're going to fear something, instead of Tarot, they should fear this.
I'll get off my soapbox now because I could probably make my bed there when it comes to this.
TL2
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| inanna_tarot |
14 Jul 2004 |
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i think alot of people have the image of tarot being a device for fortune-telling and reveiling 'God's plan' than a tool for guidence. What if the tarot showed 'God's plan' was not the same as the Catholic Church!! I think in the past that could have been one of the many causes for projecting a very nasty image of the tarot and their sinful users lol.
The bible is full of references to people using divination - the drawing of lots - so it cant be all that bad :P Divination of its kind must have been around at its time, and as there is no rule or quote in the bible (that i can think of) then there should not be such an adversity towards it.
As Indigo Rose ( I love your posts when it comes to questions like this!) and others have pointed out, using the tarot in a positive way can enhance your spiritual connections than cause problems.
Another 2pennies worth
Sezo
x
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| DarkElectric |
14 Jul 2004 |
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I don't see how the Tarot and Christianity are at odds either. I've done a fair amount of praying in my time, and many times I ask for 'signs' that I am on the right road, or other requests for confirmation of direction. Since I believe that the Divine chooses to communicate with us in many different ways, I don't see why it would be out of the question for the medium of that communication to be the tarot.
Even though I am not a Christian, I think that God/ess doesn't discriminate, that the Supreme Being is love based, and will communicate with us if we allow that to happen.
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| Shade |
15 Jul 2004 |
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Ok if you're going to take the Bible literally then yes using Tarot as a tool of divination would be a problem. But so few Christians I know take the thing literally. In the Bible when they are listing the things the Israelites can and cannot do fortune telling is included. But of course other thing included are eating shellfish, touching dead pig skin, talking to a woman during her period, gay sex, wearing cloting with multiple fibers, marrying your aunt and a load of other things we do these days... well except for marrying your aunt. Accounts of fortune telling are rare but notable is the Witch of Endor who conjurs the spirit of Samuel for King Saul and a later story of the apostles encounterng a woman who tells fortunes. The latter of these stories was recounted to me by some very nice Jehovah's witnesses who came to my door (to be fair I did ask them what they thought about tarot). Apparently the woman was making money telling fortunes and the apostles banished her demons destroying her power and thereby cut off the money train for her.
So yes, if you follow the Bible literally (which as a Wiccan I have no place to comment on) Tarot would be on the list of things you can't do. But if you think the book is open for a bit more interpretation than keep on reading tarot, eating shellfish and enjoying all sorts of other forbidden things.
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| jmd |
15 Jul 2004 |
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With regards to whether or not a literal understanding of the Bible precludes the usage of Tarot, I disagree with Shade... unless one happens to be of a particular and specific Israelite tribe to which the injunction about using certain forms of Divination is given.
In that case, and only in that case where one's genetic makeup is quite specific, it isn't even the usage of Tarot which would be precluded or forbidden, but rather one of its particular usage. Tarot's various other uses would still be quite acceptable.
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| HOLMES |
15 Jul 2004 |
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forget what ?
what was written..
the words of jesus has been changed have they not ? something added something taken from it..
the only thing i can think of jesus saying is,
"put away your tarot cards and let the creator tell you in your heart "
but into the meantime
"but until you are ready study the teachins of wisdom well for they are like the scriptures of old, keys to knowledge of the heart "
to explain,, the tarot cards are tools to be used for the purpose of connecting with one creator yet like the bible and course in miracles,
they are but the key to the true divination of the source itself .
until we are ready for the pure wisdom, and connection
the tools are excellent tools for study of life, and helping one own brother.
and so in the christ eyes they wouldnt' be bad at all..
nowhere did jesus mention not turning to a prophet , in fact we are all prophets able to talk to the creator so a prophets tool would be greatly appeciated :)
christians is to its mindset as a group of cats of differnt colours,
they can not be defind no longer as a group but as an individiual, is it not the same for us as tarot readers, and light workers ?
let the individual beliefs speak for itself and not the group mind set ,
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| Shade |
15 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by jmd
In that case, and only in that case where one's genetic makeup is quite specific, it isn't even the usage of Tarot which would be precluded or forbidden, but rather one of its particular usage. Tarot's various other uses would still be quite acceptable.
Yes I was referring only to the prgnostication aspects of Tarot. I'm sure a literal translation of the Bibe allows for meditation on archetypes and whatnot but once you use it to access information about the future I believe it falls onto the forbidden list.
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| jmd |
15 Jul 2004 |
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... but forbidden only to one gender of one tribe (from twelve) amongst the Israelites, not to all.
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| Indigo Rose |
15 Jul 2004 |
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This thread is focusing on Tarot versus Christianity. Looking at the Old Testament as a basis to condemn the Christian's use of Tarot doesn't apply. The argument of the law against divination is not valid because Christians are not under the old law. In addition as JMD and others have mentioned, there are examples of God's Hebrew people using divination as He ordained it, as a means to enlighten them. There is no mention of divination in the New Testament.
Indigo Rose
Edited for correction: as Shade describes below, there is a mention of the slave-girl; see my next post.
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| Shade |
16 Jul 2004 |
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The account of the Apostles versus the fortune teller comes from the New Testament.
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| Indigo Rose |
16 Jul 2004 |
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The event you are speaking of took place in Acts. This speaks of a slave girl who was a fortune-teller and was inhabited by a "spirit". That is the only reference, but doesn't address any laws against divination.
Edited to be more specific.
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| September Pixie |
16 Jul 2004 |
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there is talk of divination by Christians in the old testament when Joseph deciphers dreams and in fact the entire book of revelations is all prophecy :)
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| Shade |
16 Jul 2004 |
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I typed up a lengthy response then realized that I must seem argumentative. I have been actually been a big defender of Christian Witches (I am not one myself) who get a lot of attacks from both Christians and Pagans alike. While I would never choose their path for myself I believe that they (and everyone else) have the right to believe whatever they want.
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| September Pixie |
16 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Shade
I believe that they (and everyone else) have the right to believe whatever they want.
I think we can all agree on this :)
Lets get back to tarot though, k? I don't want this post to turn into a religious battleground.. :)
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| Alta |
16 Jul 2004 |
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Thanks September Pixie. Good topic but with lots of potential to be divisive.
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| jmd |
16 Jul 2004 |
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For myself, Shade, I did not take your posts to be argumentative in any sense which implies 'downputting' or 'negative'. There are, however, arguments to be seriously considered by the Christian who finds him or herself in a seeming dilemma.
My point is, in that instance, to look at each argument presented which seems to suggest that Tarot is somehow incompatible with Christianity - and disregarding, for the purposes of the argument, that Tarot itself arose out of a quite Christian environment and culture, and that numerous Tarot books and decks were written or designed by strong Christians.
In each instance I have come across, either the prohibition was against a form of augury which is not Tarot related, or against allowing a particular kind of spiritual being from taken over the human body or faculties, or directed at a particular group of people whose tasks were otherwise specified - and in their case, divination was not to be for their tribe.
Another thread which also is relevent to this discussion, and now just over a year old, is can't be a tarot christian?.
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| cartarum |
16 Jul 2004 |
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church will always be intolerant of non christian ideologies. but really, its all the same. tarot recognizes each part of human existance, and gives each part a valid point. christianity would cut out the eye if it were bad, where tarot would emphasize that even though the eye is bad, it still has a purpose.
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| Nitewindz |
17 Jul 2004 |
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Well this is an interesting thread!
I was raised in a Christian church. I read the Bible from cover to cover seeking answers the church leadership would not provide. My statements are based on my personal experiences in that one church.
The church and it's leadership insist that the Devil speaks through Tarot. They react with fear and negativity to anything "new" or "different". From meditation to yoga to Dungeons and Dragons to Tai Chi to the Spiderman movies, it's all the "evil work of Satan".
At first I did not understand this paranoia. But when I became a teen and enjoyed experiences (yoga) that the church labeled "Satanic", I realized that the blanket condemnation of anything outside the church was a method of social control. People need information in order to think for themselves and make good decisions. When the only source of information is Church Leadership, the Leadership can control what people think (and think they know!) by giving the people selected bits of information and/or disinformation. Church leadership cannot control what the Tarot says, so naturally they don't want people listening!
I also observed a huge gap between Christian theology as expressed by Jesus in the Bible and practiced by many loving and honest Christians, and Christianity as practiced by the church and it's leadership.
I can understand a Christian rejecting Tarot cards with pagan imagery, due to the First Commandment (No other gods before Me, for I am a jealous God). But beyond that I see nothing incompatible between practicing Tarot (or yoga or tai chi) and practicing Christianity.
Please remember that I am speaking only about my personal experiences in one particular church.
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| ferrous |
18 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Nitewindz
The church and it's leadership insist that the Devil speaks through Tarot. They react with fear and negativity to anything "new" or "different". From meditation to yoga to Dungeons and Dragons to Tai Chi to the Spiderman movies, it's all the "evil work of Satan".
Spiderman is the work of Satan!? How on earth did they come to this conclusion?
Sorry, a bit off topic, but I must know!
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| Nevada |
18 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by fyreflye
In what way is Tarot an "ideology?" Ideologies limit your possibilities and close you down. Tarot and many other approaches help you to see possibilities in your life you hadn't considered before. Perhaps that's why so many fear it. Excellent point. I don't see tarot as an ideology. To me it's more like a window, or an instrument. We look at the sky or use instruments to measure and predict the weather in the physical world. In a sense tarot aids us in observing and predicting the weather on another level altogether.
Indigo Rose, what a beautiful post. I've been struggling with these ideas, while writing a work of fiction in which one character is a tarot reader and another is a Christian minister. (I'm a glutton for punishment, assigning myself such a task, I know.) I appreciate your take on the Old Testament, as that had crossed my mind as well after reading through some articles online. Your words about not wanting to cause another Christian to "stumble on their path" touched me. It's true that when cognitive dissonance stands in the way of understanding one particular idea, it can create havoc in one's whole range of beliefs.
Haven't finished reading yet, but I'm enjoying this thread!
Nevada
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| jmd |
18 Jul 2004 |
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If one of the protagonist is a Christian minister, you may want to struggle with various specific quotes, such as Deuteronomy 18'When you have entered the country given you by Yahweh [...] there must never be anyone among you [...] who practices divination [...] ' later shown to not be obeyed in 2 Kings 17' [...] also they practised divination [...] provoking his [ie, ihvh's] anger' To me, this is the clearest of various quotations which may at times be used against divination generally - but if the context is clearly read, it is not a general prohibition at all.
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| deedlit420 |
18 Jul 2004 |
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Tis worth mentioning that there are many ways in which the tarot can actually reinforce Christian faith. I will list just a few examples i have picked up on here.
The Seven Deadly Sins (lust, pride, gluttony, envy, and three others i've forgotten) are caused by excess and obsession- one of the things the Devil stands for.
Jesus said we are to have childlike faith- sounds a lot like the Fool!
The passage about a time for everything in Ecclesiastes could easily be used as a meditation on The Wheel of Fortune and Temperance
If one wants to go really deep, you can do as i have before and match the qabalistic letters of each of the major arcana with their respective equivalents in one of the really long psalms. For example, you can adopt the verse of your soul card's letter as a personal meditation.
There are a lot move things I can list, but i'm running out of time.
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| Nevada |
18 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by jmd
If one of the protagonist is a Christian minister, you may want to struggle with various specific quotes... Exactly my thought. A lot of the religious conflict (and content) will be internal to each character, not really a huge part of the story itself. It simply creates background tension between them as they work together to solve a mutual problem. I hope to stress what they share in common as a contrast to their different beliefs. She has no specific religion, but combines the beliefs of eclectic Paganism and Gnosticism, among other things.
As to tarot being incompatible with Christianity, one more argument, which was touched on earlier by jmd is that the Bible predates tarot, so there can be no specific injunction against tarot in the Bible, only general passages regarding divination.
It's also my understanding, having belonged to a Christian church in the past, that most Christian religions consider free will to be important. Don't Chrsitians believe that Satan fell because he wanted to force people's will? Free will involves making up one's own mind about what's right and what's not. Ignorance of a thing that is condemned would necessarily preclude free will, wouldn't it?
Nevada
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| ferrous |
18 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Nevada
Don't Chrsitians believe that Satan fell because he wanted to force people's will?
From my understanding (this is from my experience having been brought up in church until about the age of twenty-one) Satan was cast out of heaven because he challenged God. He wanted to be the boss.
Originally posted by Nevada
Free will involves making up one's own mind about what's right and what's not. Ignorance of a thing that is condemned would necessarily preclude free will, wouldn't it?
Unfortunately, many churches have control by keeping the members in ignorance of things they don't want them to think about or know about. It was very much a part of the 'The Church' in the dark ages.
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| Yatima |
18 Jul 2004 |
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I think Navada has a very good point in realizing that the Christian doctrine has a special sensitivity to free will.
With all we know today psychologically of the often narrow path between external and internal forces, which are of a pre-free will nature, and the possibilities of free decision making, which only can take place when we have good and correct information upon we can decide, anything that “furthers” free will decisions in matters of life, morality and believes may be welcomed to Christianity (in principle, not at all times by all Christian “experts”).
Does Tarot further free will? That’s the Christian question of relevance…
A second point was brought up by jmd: divination. Indeed, this is a problem from a certain point on in Jewish history and also in Christian theology from biblical times on. Paul was anxious to make clear that we should not trust in any other (spiritual) “power” than Christ and in so far as a divination-method would relate to such “powers”, we would have a problem with him…
On the other hand, Tarot (as far as we know today) was not initiated as divinatory instrument. And even if it was not just invented as a game but also exhibited a symbolic “icon” of a probably Christian nature, as can be seen, e.g., clearly from one of the oldest decks, the Pierpont-Morgan Bergamo, in its apocalyptic imaginary and interest (see the thread “Tarot and Black Death” and “Star, Moon, Sun” in the historical section), it was not divinatory devise that would make the troubles we may expect from Tarot-revival from Etteilla on…
However, even if we use the Tarot as an divinatory devise, we should take into consideration that instead of divination the biblical “exchange” was apocalyptic vision (of which the Book of Revelation is only one). This is a crucial point, however, and the essential other side of the free will approach: revelation. If such a vision of the present and future is given by Divine revelation, it was God’s action; hence, God was not forced to do so. Divination, on the other hand, may look like forcing God to reveal…
Does Tarot force God for a revelation? That’s the other essential Christian question…
Yatima
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| Nevada |
20 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Yatima
Does Tarot force God for a revelation? You're right, that's an essential question (even for non-Christians). The way I see it, God/dess is always revealing, but we rarely listen.
I also believe that what God/dess reveals to one isn't necessarily for everyone to follow.
I don't see how tarot can force a revelation any more than prayer can. It's an instrument, a tool, used for focus, of which there are many (prayer beads, scientific study and discovery, for instance).
These are the essential problems I had with being a Christian, so I'm not sure how that is resolved within a Christian context. Granted, I have little knowledge of most Christian churches, aside from the one I belonged to and it's been so long that my memory of their doctrines has become somewhat murky. Which is why I'm drawn to threads like this, and feel a great need to research. :)
Nevada
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| Indigo Rose |
20 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Nevada
I don't see how tarot can force a revelation any more than prayer can. It's an instrument, a tool, used for focus, of which there are many (prayer beads, scientific study and discovery, for instance)
Nevada
I agree with you here. We as humans can't force God to do anything. God CHOOSES what will be revealed, and to whom it will be revealed. Yes, Tarot is a tool that can be used for divine revelation and I see that God sometimes chooses to reveal answers via this tool. I think it is important to note, with Tarot being a tool, like other tools can be used for good or evil depending on who is using it and what they are using it for. Tarot has a deeply spiritual connection. For the Christian, Tarot itself is not the issue; but HOW it is used. I believe that the important consideration for the Christian who practices Tarot is that their loyality to Jesus Christ remain firm. God requires our loyality; He commands it. If we embrace Tarot, it must not be in a way that is contrary to the Lord but gives Him the glory and honor He deserves. By this I mean, we acknowledge that HE is the revealer of secrets and mysteries. Daniel 2:22-"HE reveals deep and hidden things; He knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him."
Daniel was a gifted prophet, trained in the ways of the Magi. Yet, he served Jehovah and prayed to Him for divine revelations. God gave Daniel these revelations and in turn Daniel glorified God with them.
Blessings,
Indigo Rose :)
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| TheLovers2 |
20 Jul 2004 |
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I also agree, as a Christian, that there is NO way to force God to do anything. He reveals as He chooses to reveal.
I do believe that God will meet a person "where they're at," however. He will meet you at least half way or more. I agree with Indigo Rose that as Christians (for those of us on here who are) it is important that Tarot or anything else doesn't usurp His authority and place in our lives. There is a scripture that says that we shoud acknowledge Him in all things, and He will direct our paths. I acknowledge Him regarding my experiences with Tarot and my Readings and, therefore, expect some "direction." I want His Hand in it so to speak. I find that He is always telling us something that will help us, even if it is not exactly what we want to hear. If we are not listening, sometimes, it's because we are at a point where we cannot "hear" via the usual methods. At those times, I think He will use another means to speak to us. Perhaps, it will be the Tarot, perhaps, something else.
I believe that we should always honor Him as the giver of our blessings from whatever source they may come and to me that includes Tarot. I have found that He will use whatever we allow, to reach us and teach us -- that is how much He wants us to learn and grow.
I have been contemplating the many ways He chooses to communicate with us as Chrisitans -- as with Tarot -- contrary to what some believe, these ways are not written in stone.
My opinion on these things.
TL2
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| paradoxx |
20 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by AmbitiousMind
As a tarot reader I believe that it has helped me grow to become more spirtual. I am also a religious person and know that alot of religious people who don't accept tarot as it conflicts with their beliefs.
A friend of mine stated, "Some may argue, that Christians can still rely on TAROT (As we rely on the Bible) as just another form of guidance... But the two ideologies are NOT compatible. "
I had no argument prepared for this so I did not reply. If you have any insight on this please share.
Thanks!
Ideaologoes within xtianity itself are conflicted. Moroms, Jehovas, Catholics, Methodist, Prespytyrian, Baptist, Pentacoastal, etc. . .
In all honesty, to be an honest tarot reader, you would have to have a contractial form that is enforced by a cour of law. This would then protect both teh reader and the querant of the transaction, the contract wouls also serve as a reciept.
This solution would then render the moral implications of tarot reading mute and enoforce protection by the law.
Thats all I have to say.
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The Tarot vs Christianity thread was originally posted on 12 Jul 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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