Rohrig Keywords

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Aug 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Little Baron	17 Aug 2004
Just thinking ....... I probably won't do this because I am too nervous but wondered if anybody else had. The keywords on the Rohrig are my pet peeve. I hate them being there. I find them distracting and they throw the balance off for me in readings. I was thinking ...... ....about cutting them down to the image. Completely taking away the white borders and leaving them as 'just' the picture. I am not that great with a pair of scissors but know I would prefer them if they were like that. Has anyone done this? Yaboot

Fulgour	17 Aug 2004
I call the pre-fabricated meanings seen in such cases THOTH STANDARD. Here's and example of things really gone skew whiff: The Antichi Tarochi Lombardi with GD "Meanings" Aleph Tarot It's just another added little touch from Crowley & Co.

Little Baron	17 Aug 2004
Thanks for the link Fulgour. In some cases it is not even so much that I do not agree with the keywords; it is more of a visual thing. They kind of smack you on the nose when you pull a card. If the image covered the whole card, as the images in the Morgan Greer do, for example, I think it would just make the cards a little softer and pull you in. For me, even the font doesn't seem to go with how I view the deck. It's a shame as I love this deck. As I said, I am a little too much of a 'bottle' to go at them with the scissors right now, lol. Maybe when I have some extra cash, I'll buy another and have a go. Best wishes Yaboot

The 78th Fool	17 Aug 2004
Keywords on cards really are my biggest pet hate. Even if the keyword is apt it is difficult to ignore when it's glaring out of a card at you. For me, even an apt keyword can be a distraction that ties you into a narrow spectrum of meaning. There are two decks in particular that I really love but find frustrating to use for this reason - one is the Quest Tarot, the other is the Adrian Tarot. The Quest even has keywords on the Majors and Court Cards. I never use these decks if I'm reading for someone else as the keywords just become confusing and constricting to the reading As to trimming a deck - If you want to be so brave, do it with a trimmer or a paper guillotine, but remember, you will deface the card backs and remove the rounded corners. Ultimately though - do you really want to risk defacing your very expensive Rohrig deck ? I re backed one of my US Games Rider decks with red sticky back plastc to obliterate the grey tartan backs. I seriously regretted it later, but you can't reverse the damage. Think carefully before you take the plunge !! Chris. xx

Lee	17 Aug 2004
Actually it's not uncommon for people to cut off borders and keywords from decks. There were a few threads about this in the past, on Aeclectic and also on other e-lists. As Chris says, you can do it with a paper-cutter, but people have also done it with scissors, although your deck won't end up with edges as perfect as when it came out of the box. I once cut off the keywords from the Osho Zen and it came out pretty well. You can also buy devices of various types which will round the corners. -- Lee

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
Hey Yaboot, Let's make a pact. I hate the Rohrig keywords too, in fact, lately, they've been preventing me from even being able to work with the cards. I can't even see the picture, the keyword is so intrusive. I don't think covering them up with stickers is going to do it, let's chop!!! I'll do it if you will. Whaddya say?

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
I am way tooo scared Gardener!!!!! I am awful with a pair of scissors. You should have seen what I did to my mates hair, lol!!!! Maybe I might have a little practice with some others first. I don't think that it would alter the back design. I am more worried that once I have gone at them, they won't match and the curves will be a little awkward. Ohhhh ... I don't know what to do. I wish I was rich so that I could have another deck on the side should it all go wrong. Yaboot

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
Yaboot, my dear, how can you make clothes if you can't wield a pair of scissors??????? Now if you really think you can't, you still have two options. One is to put stickers over the keyword, like those blank white ones people use for labeling manila folders. Very inexpensive. The other is to go to a copy shop where they let you use their paper cutter. Or you can just practice being so spiritually enlightened that you are able to transcend the existence of the keywords. Hint, that last one is not going to work for me :)

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Gardener How were you actually going to do it? Were you thinking of cutting around the image so that there is a still a little white border or were you going to take the cutting right to the image so that there is no frame around it at all? The curve of the outside of the main card is the same as the inner curves of the image so that could be used as a template. Just looked at the 'Five of Swords'. The word 'DEFEAT' jumped out at me. I was like 'S** Off!'. It really is such a negative message and clouds my interpretation. Will have to give a little more thought before I start hacking away at them. How easily obtainable is this deck at the moment? Just in case, lol. Yaboot Edited to add: It is also a pain when you read for someone else. When the card is turned, they instantly say 'ohhh, happiness' or they drop their head and say 'oh right, failure'. It doesn't help with such a negative keyword to lighten the reading or see the possitive side of any one card.

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
I have actually got a paper cutter sitting here in my room, lol. Before I make my final decision, I have done a mock up of how it might look! After eight years with this deck, the last one hasn't worked so far so probably not an option for me either, lol. Here's my mock up!

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
And, as if by magic .... snip!!!!! Edited to add: It's funny how in the second picture, you are directed more to the glow behind one of the disks; far less doom and gloom. OK, I am going to ponder on this a little more while I have a cigarette. I know what I am like though; once I have got something in my mind, I usually end up doing it (thinks back to some of the most rediculous hairstyles known to man). I don't see how it can go too wrong though; famous last words, hahaha. Yaboot

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
I was just punching in the "post reply" when I see your latest words, SNIP!! Congratulations!!! This is going to make the deck so much more powerful for you. I can't wait to start my own! Paper cutter is definitely the way to go. I am driving into town this afternoon and will go to a copy shop in order to do mine. Although the balance of leaving the white border might be nice, I have decided to be bold and cut right to the image. If you recall, there have been a couple discussions about the beauty and immediacy of borderless cards, and I think these cards will look beautiful nude. If I have the patience, I'm going to strip all four sides. It's easy to get a second deck. Tarotgarden has them for $25. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
Hey, I like how it looks with the top corners rounded. Wait a minute! Did you snip a real card or just a mockup? Tease!

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
I havn't done it yet! I just erased the border on photoshop to see how it looks. I think I am going to do it though ... you have persuaded me. It's only bits of card and you're right, I can always get another set should it go terribly wrong. At the moment, I can only see how it can make them look better. Let me know how it goes; I am off to look for a 'decent' pair of scissors. Yaboot

darwinia	18 Aug 2004
This never bothered me until you said!! Over here, we can by inexpensive aluminum scissors in the craft stores that are very sharp. I would use a long pair for the straight cuts so you don't get wobbly lines. Then switch to a small, short pair of scissors that aren't unwieldy and trim tightly and evenly to round the corners. Unless you have a very expensive paper cutter, the chops can turn out pretty raggedy, I would try the two lengths of scissors for accuracy and clean cutting. OR you can use a rotary cutter and one of those green self-healing mats that quilters use. Again, it's the control issue, one slip of the ruler and your cut it off. Far better to follow the line closely with your eyes and a pair of sharp scissors. I don't mind keywords, I always look at the picture and use what I see there, but I can see your point about querents jumping to conclusions. I'm sure that gets tiresome.

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
This is like sitting in the hairdressers and asking them to cut off hair you have been growing for eight years. As they say, it's going to grow back, hehehe. Thanks for the TarotGarden link. Hopefully, I won't need it. Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Thanks for the tips Darwinia. I think you are right. However dodgy my cutting is, I think I would make a better job of it with scissors than a paper cutter. My paper cutter is not that expensive and I have had trouble with it before. I always end up shaving the image down too far and in this case, I don't want the sizes of the cards to be different. Cheers and best wishes Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
And one last thing ... When I was at university a couple of months ago, I had to cut my fabric for a pair of shorts and parts of a jacket. The fabric was woven by a friend in the textile department. It took her three weeks to make five metres. When it was valued, the cost came out at £200 a metre. If I can cut that, I am sure I can cut these. Yaboot

The 78th Fool	18 Aug 2004
If anything goes wrong I don't want to know !!!!!

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
Okay, I'm going to check out the paper cutter at the copy shop. If it's really sharp and heavy, I'll use that, otherwise I'll use the fancy kitchen scissors from my cousin the chef. Either way, it's kitchen scissors for the corners. And Yaboot... Of course they'll grow back!

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
*ahem* yes, 78thfool, I'm talking to you. Have you seen your signature line? We're just following your advice!

ambermoon	18 Aug 2004
To get really uniform, professional quality,rounded corners, buy a corner punch. I'm serious. There is such an item. The manufacturers are Carl or Marvy, to name the first two that come to mind. These punches are sold in craft shops that cater to paper arts. Best $5. I ever spent. Scissors are iffy. Use a metal edged ruler and an Xacto knife if you don't have access to a paper trimmer. And watch your fingertips, please. It's hard to shuffle wearing bandages, right? ambermoon

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Thanks Ambermoon The corner punch thingy? What I was wondering is whether the curve on that would be the same as the one I want to emulate at the bottom. In other words, it might be a tighter curve. Is it adjustable? Yaboot

ambermoon	18 Aug 2004
It's not adjustable. It may be too wide for your needs. Um, take a look on my website at some of the non-tarot cards and decide for yourself it if would work. You could always re-punch the bottom corners to match. http://www.trishlapointe.com/atc_gallery/atc.html ambermoon

Jewel-ry	18 Aug 2004
Wow! I'm sat on the edge of my seat just waiting for you two to make up your minds. I definately think the cards will look good Yaboot, if they look anything like the mock up you did. You are so brave! I would never attempt anything like that. I tried to cut my daughters fringe when she was about 4 and I kept trying to even it up and eventually her fringe was like 0.5cm long :D I shall be watching with interest. :)

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Yes, I am going to do it! But tomorrow, I am going to go in search of the corner thingy? I rang around and there are some places in town that have it. I did practice on a few old cards and my cutting wasn't that wondeful so I am going to try and do it properly; rather than rushing into it and ruining them. Now I have decided, there's no going back. Yaboot

darwinia	18 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Now I have decided, there's no going back. Scary Yab. You dynamo of decisiveness!!!

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
I know Darwinia. Whenever I get something into my head, I can't shake it away. Since I started this thread, the keywords have been absolutely screaming at me and I have been tripping over them all over the place. Usually though, I am prone to jumping into things and making a pigs ear of them, so I have decided to do my research first and try and get it right. Yaboot

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
I'm going for the pig's ear approach. After all, it's contrascarpe's deck! I'll let you know how it goes...

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Yes Gardener, please keep me informed. You never know, by the end of the night, I may be 'pig's earing' as well, lol. Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, the research went out of the window, but I took your advice Darwinia, and sorted out two different kinds of scissors. 'The Sun' got the first treatment. Another 77 to go. It looks really weird but my parents agreed that it looked better. Like you said Gardener, it does look 'nude'. Even though, you look straight at the image and the number, which before, seemed like 'sub-text'. I don't know how true this is but someone told me that when looking at an image, the eye directs itself to the lightest part. In this case, that would be the stark white borders. I will let you know how the next couple of hours go and I will scan an image in if it all goes ok. Yaboot (thanks Gardener, for giving me the push!)

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
go go go, go Yaboot go! I'm off to the copy shop now....

Moonbow*	18 Aug 2004
If I only had your guts Yaboot, I would like to do this with all my decks. I hate keywords. But... it's the corner that worries me. I can cut straight but I would want it to look neat at the corners. It definately looks better though.

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
I've done 9 now so there is no turning back. Here's a sampler of how it's going. Yaboot *Just incase you were wondering, that is not bad cutting at the top of the first two; it's just where the scanner has cut the top off a bit. They all fit snuggly together and so far, seem to be exactly the same size and shape. What do you think?* EDITED TO ADD: The two on the right look (from the attachment) as though they are not rounded at the corners, but it is just how I cropped them when scanning. The ones on the left show how the corners look in reality.

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Here's a better example, I hope.

Hedera	18 Aug 2004
Hmmm, I really like how that looks.... I may follow your example Yaboot! My father's still away on holiday, so I can borrow his (sturdy, heavy) paper-cutter without awkward explanations, and I have one of those corner-cutters. It's a couple of hours' work at most, I've done it before with the Mountain Dream (after laminating the back for extra sturdiness). Those corner-punches are really great, and the roundness tends to be the same as that of the average tarot card.

darwinia	18 Aug 2004
Boy, does that ever look good, you've done my favourite card, the 8 with the tree on it. What you said about the 7 of disks after you'd done the mock-up in Photoshop.....about the eye being directed to the glow behind one of the disks....I found my eye being directed more to the disks themselves, which is the point of the graphic after all. They really did seem to pop out and glow. I love it, I'm just going to haul the deck out and have a look. You're too dangerous to be let out on public forums Yab.

Moonbow*	18 Aug 2004
I agree Yab They are definately better...... I just cannot do it though! They are toooooo precious.

The 78th Fool	18 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Gardener *ahem* yes, 78thfool, I'm talking to you. Have you seen your signature line? We're just following your advice! oh dear, This is where my argument falls to the ground !!!! Chris. xx

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Thanks Darwinia and Moonbow, I have done about 40 now and they are looking so different. It's really strange because you can't tell how they are going to look until the last bit is cut away. And then there is something else that you notice. You really wouldn't think that a border so small would make a difference, but the colours seem to bleed into each other now and interact, if that makes sense. That was one thing I always liked about the Morgan Greer; they look 'more' colourful. Here's an example: Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
And another. In this scan, the colours seem richer. When I look at them, rather than being bashed by those keywords (I know that they don't bother all of you), I see the number and the image straight away. Thanks for all of your kind words and encouragement, by the way. Yab

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Apologies for keep posting but I am so excited by this exercise. Since I havn't heard from Gardener, I imagine she is snipping as I type. Just wanted to post this image. As I have the cards laid on the bed, I could instantly see how different they looked when fanned out. Thought I would share. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	18 Aug 2004
Oh Yaboot, They look terrific. So much better without the borders and key words, its just like having a brand new deck. I can well understand your excitement. Have you done it all with scissors then or did you get that corner thing in the end? I am impressed. :)

contrascarpe	18 Aug 2004
Wow, what a difference a day makes! I saw this post in the wee hours of the morning and was going to respond that someone I know and love would absolutely LOVE to do this. My solution would have been to get the German language cards as quite frankly, I like the size of the Rohrig. So, I get in my car, drive 50 to Providence, RI and back, then 300 miles to Syracuse, NY, and find that my dearest not only posted, but is snipping one of our dear Rohrigs while we speak! Actually, I am not surprised as I had several voice mail messages on my cell warning me of this, but am still amazed at the speed at which Gardener goes when she has a mission :) Dan

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Have done it all with scissors, Jewel-ry. Still at it as I sit here. Just done the Princess of Disks and she looks great. Just taking a break to have a cigarette. Got 25 left to do. It's funny what you said about a new deck, because I thought the same. It feels like when they are together, they can breath more. The colours feel sumptuous and more sensual. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	18 Aug 2004
I think I may have to do this. Any tips? How did you get your corners to look so even? :)

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Contrascarpe, I bet she is having as much fun as I am; I am sure you will love the results. I can't wait to hear how she is doing. Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Jewel-ry, I just took Darwinia's advice and used two sets of scissors. The larger ones, as she said, are good for the side edges to get a smooth and fluid cut and then the smaller ones are good for the tight curves. Aside from that, it is just being careful and patient. As I put before, the corners of the main card are the same as the corners in the bottom of the illustration so I just lined up the big one with the straight edges of the top of the illustration and used it as a template. Penciled round it to make a cut line and then snipped away. It is a little scary but I have picked up confidence as I have gone along. A break for the eyes every so often is a good idea. The only problem is that because a lot of the cards, in the top corners where I cut, are so dark or black, it can be hard to see the pencil lines. When I started this, hours ago, there was natural sunlight which made it easier, so maybe it is a good job for the morning, rather than starting in the late afternoon or evening as I have. Good luck. As much as I am really pleased with the results, I won't recommend it to anyone. I don't want to be responsible for anyone ruining their deck, lol. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	18 Aug 2004
Thanks Yaboot, I'm gonna sleep on this idea now! It looks so different, it almost doesn't look like the same deck. I can't believe the results. The cards have the Wow! factor, definately. :)

The 78th Fool	18 Aug 2004
Have to say, I've just looked at the comparison scan and they look really fabulous. Any chance you could post a comparison of the back design, before and after (that's if you haven't chopped the cards already! Chris. xx

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Thanks Chris! Here's the back comparison. Because it is not a centred or a reversable image, it doen't really affect the back. If it had of been and cropping would have made it look awkward, I might not have done it. Yaboot

The 78th Fool	18 Aug 2004
Wow!! They look great! The reason I was so horrified when you said what you were doing before is because I'd already decided I'm going to go and buy this deck tomorrow - I don't care about the extra strain on my credit card!!!!!! I'm seriously tempted to buy the deck and chop it straight away - but I think I'll live with it a while before I make my decision. Watkins better still have it in stock!! I hadn't realised the back designs were so breathtaking. Chris. xx

darwinia	18 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Apologies for keep posting but I am so excited by this exercise. Nobody cares, keep posting!! Wow, wow, wow. I had my cards out and I know they'd look better without the white. I'm wondering if Carl Rohrig originally designed them just this way--borderless? He has the keywords in the writing for most, or all of them, which makes me think he designed them to stand alone without a keyword and border. Quote: Just wanted to post this image. As I have the cards laid on the bed, I could instantly see how different they looked when fanned out. Thought I would share. Yes, the clarity of the design and colours, the depth of colour, is much, much better. You are doing a great job on those corners. One suggestion--on dark cards, instead of a graphite pencil, you could use a yellow or white finely sharpened coloured pencil to trace around your corner template--you'll see the line better. I do this on fabric when tracing for patchwork--it works great.

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
The back designs are lovely and in a way, now they are cropped, they even feel a little more compact to me, which I like. I am sure you will get a lot out of this deck, Chris. Maybe it is best to see how you work with it for a while before chopping. Besides, I lived for eight years with it before I got the scissors out, lol. Hope it is still in stock. Look forward to hearing your first impressions. Are you buying it over the net or in a shop. I bought mine in Mysteries in Covent Garden, and over the years, it still seems to always be in stock. Also, that really big book shop (can't remember it's name but it begins with F) on Charing Cross Road had it for quite a while. Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
Darwinia, I thought exactly the same as you. As I have been chopping like some kind of psychotic hairdresser, at one point, I thought to myself, a few of the courts look alike; I hope I will remember which is which when I am reading for someone. As you say, the names of the courts and all cards are in the illustrations, as are the keywords. I also wondered if Rohrig never intended to use keywords and borders but they were put there by the publishers so that people who bought it as a beginners deck or who were not that familiar with imagery in the tarot, would not be overwelmed or confused by the illustrations alone. In that sense, it would be accessible to more people. I am really glad you like the results. It is so weird how the numbers in the minors just 'stand out' now. Also, the courts, for example, the Princesses of Swords and Disks are now just like beautiful paintings. They really engage you and stand to attention. I have only a few more to cut but will post them as an example when I have finished. Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so chuffed with how they look. They all feel the same size, and aside from a little smaller (which is quite nice), they shuffled, fan and slot together just as they always did. Here's how they look now. Once again, cheers for all of your tips and encouragement. A big thanks go Gardener for pushing me to do this. I hope your's is going well too. Yaboot

Little Baron	18 Aug 2004
And one more ....

Gardener	18 Aug 2004
Hi Yaboot, Congratulations, your deck is STUNNING. I am awash with impatience! The copy shop paper cutter wasn't strong enough, and my scissors were too blunt. I'm going to have to go somewhere else to find sharp edges tomorrow, because I can't wait to get caught up and have a beautiful deck like that!

Majecot	19 Aug 2004
Oh My Yaboot! I have been reading this thread with knots in my stomach!! How ever did you get the nerve to cut?? I don't know if I can bring myself to do it. I love this deck and I hate the keywords. They are, as you say, very distracting! But I just don't no... yours turned out beautiful, they look sooo much better.....but I would feel like I was defacing them. I don't think I can do it. *cringe*

Moonbow*	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by The 78th Fool Watkins better still have it in stock!! Hi Chris They had the Rohrig on Monday when I was there, I think there was more than one deck too. Good Luck Yaboot They look fabulous and I am so tempted to do the same, I'm sure I could do it because I have a straight hand, it's just........... if I do, I will post it here.

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
Majecot I don't know how I had the nerve either, since at the start of this thread, I never had any real intention of cutting the cards. Aside from anything, this is the deck that I have owned the longest and didn't want to destroy it. However, I knew, as Gardener mentioned in her first post, that something was a little wrong with my relationship with the deck. Something was keeping us apart. Aside from the keywords being there (I had always hated them and I felt the 'Times New Roman'-like font didn't work with the deck at all), those white borders were stopping me from getting into the cards and the cards from getting to and interacting with each other. It was almost like the modern white frames of windows getting in the way of my enjoying the view. I wouldn't have had the nerve, if Gardener hadn't have suggested a 'pact', lol. I think that previously, I would have been more scared to do it becuause I had a different view on my cards. Now, I see them as a tool. I want them to be an efficient tool. I suppose it is like sharpening a knife. I am glad I pulled it off. You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs. In a way, it feels more personal to me. Because it is the first deck I owned, now it has had major surgery, it feels like we have been through even more together. Gardener, you will have to let me know what you think, but I do like this more 'huggable size' to the deck. I havn't tried reading with it yet which I am excited about doing. When reading for others, as I said, it always was irritating when the keywords came up. Once that word was in my head, it was hard to go anywhere else for me; I know that not all of you have that problem. There is something so nice, even on the majors which don't have a keywordm to not have anything 'written'. For example, the sun is now 'just that' - no more. It has the number, 'XIX', the runic symbol and the hebrew letter and somehow feels more ordered. One thing I really hate is when you go to a shop and see prints of famous paintings and photographs. Rather than just having a plain mount on them, some have the name of the painting and the artist underneath. It always distracts me and when I have bought prints before, I have remounted them so that it is just the picture that is left. Anyway, this is just my thoughts. I don't want to instigate a whole Rohrig 'scissor massacre', but want to thank you all very much for helping me along with last nights exercise. Yaboot

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
You are so amazingly brave ! I have been reading through this thread getting more and more excited as I saw how stunningly beautiful these cards looked without the borders. Funny, I have this deck, but have never used it and was looking at it only yesterday. It is so lovely, but I too found the stark white border and keywords a little too bold and distracting. I am sooooooooo tempted to follow your example. Now I have seen how incredible they look with just the art, I may well have a go.......it's that first cut though, scary ! I cannot believe the difference it makes. The art just oozes from the cards now, it pulls you in and washes all over you, a real feast for the senses. Well done, and congratualtions on your bravery, your accuracy with the scissors and the stunning deck you now own.

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
Thanks Tarot Galadriel That first cut was scary. I sat in the living room with my parents. I held the scissors at the card and just looked at them both with that 'Should I? Shouldn't I?' expression. They both just looked back and my mum said 'I don't want you to be moaning for the rest of the evening if you muck them up. Then, I just cut! I knew that once I had made that first slice, I would have to do the lot. Once I had started, I would just have to be as careful as I could because there was no turning back. You are right. The deck does feel so different. If you do have a go, my only words of advice is to take your time. It is a little scary at first but your confidence picks up half way through. I am usually rubbish at cutting, so I am surprised that they came out as well as they did. Welcome to Aeclectic Tarot Galadriel. Hope to hear some more of your views on the Rohrig when the study group resumes again at the end of the month. Best wishes Yaboot

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
Thanks for the welcome ! I would not attempt mine freehand like you did though. My hand is too shakey. I have a paper cutter (sligin guillotene) so may use that. it has never failed me yet, cuts paper, card and laminate with no problems. I would have to finish the corners freehand though, did you just follow the image curve? Saying this, I bet i don't do it, too scary !! Yikes !! I may have to buy a second copy, just to steady my nerves ! lol

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
The curve on the white corners is the same as that of the illustration so I used the white corner over the top of the image as a template and drew round it with a precil. The best bit of advice is from Darwinia, when she says to use 'small scissors' for the curves. I wouldn't have even considered this if she hadn't have mentioned it but it really does make a difference. Yaboot

Majecot	19 Aug 2004
Hahaha... Yikes is right... I don't know if I could do it either. But I really really like them with our the borders and those horrible key words. I have only had this deck for about a year or so..but it feels like one of my first, because it is the first deck I ever read with or had a reading with. (It was my best friends frist deck). It is kinda like cutting the baby's hair for the first time... except this won't grow back..

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
Just been looking through them.........still debating.....I get butterflies whenever I think of doing it ! lol One thing............not about cutting, about reading.............. I am used to RW clones, that is what I know, I am still new to tarot, only 9 months in. Can I use what I know from them, or should I study the thoth type meanings for this kind of deck? I know they can be a little different to the RW ones. I got that just by looking at the Rohrig, and seeing that some of the minors seemed very different in meaning to what I am used to. Until now I have only used RW ones, but recently got his deck and am waiting on the Cosmic tribe, which is also thoth based I believe? I don't have the thoth, Im one of those it scares a bit, my Mum did a good job of scaring me off that one, with the tales of Crowely !! lol Plus a promise that I would never own it ! So just wondered if you read diiferently with this type?

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
The Thoth is a funny one. It comes with such a reputation, but physically, I find it lighter than the Rohrig, as one example. The Rohrig seems much darker and intense, which is why I probably never clicked so much with my Thoth. It was neither dark or light, but that is just my opinion. As Fulgour posted earlier in this thread, one of the comparisons with the Thoth is the keywords as some of them are the same within the two decks - not that I have to worry about that now, hehehe. Also the naming of the Rohrig courts follows that of the Thoth. I think that with the Rohrig, it is possible to apply both sets of meanings to the cards as part of study. For example, the 9 of Swords could be related to both the cards from the Rider Waite and the Thoth. Besides, in many of the cards, the notebook scribblings show images that are drawn straight from Waites deck - Judgement, the Sun, to name a few. Right now, I am interested in using those elements in study to determine the meanings that are specific to the Rohrig. I would say 'just work with the images'. There are some very useful references to both the Rider Waite and Thoth; I kind of use what I see to be important to my vision of the imagery and diregard that which doesn't seem important. The Rohrig conveys such a strong and intense flavour; after a while, for me, I have tended to work with what it communicates alone. I do think it is useful, however, to compare the others and the opinions of RWS and Thoth authors with your own findings in the Rohrig. There is no right or wrong way with this, I have found. As I mentioned before, there is a study group here, which is a great way to learn the specifics of this deck. If you have any trouble finding the threads, just let me know. Hope this helps. Best wishes Yaboot

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
Thanks for the advise Yaboot. This is always one aspect of using new decks I find confusing, going with what you know and have learnt, via what you see. I am so drawn to this deck, the art is so incredible. I will have a good scout through the threads fo rthis deck, thanks . I feel the scissors coming ever closer...............lol

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
There was a study group a while back which looked at the aces - fives. Search under Rohrig and you should find it. The current ones are here - http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26990&highlight=das+lied+der+rohrigen Oh, and the scissors? They're on the shelf to your right, lol. :D Yaboot

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
Don't encourage me ! lol I'm way too close to clipping them anyway !! lol I just know I'll make a pig's ear of it ! Just debating whether I should order a new deck first !

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
SNIP, SNIP, SNIP ..... I should change my tag from 'Phantom Dressmaker' to 'Demon Card Barber'..... I thought exactly the same as you ... maybe I should have another Rohrig on standby before I 'did the deed'. I suppose it depends on how wealthy you are and how confident your snipping abilities are. For me, even though I was hesitant at first, I can now see that the borders were a problem for me, so whatever happened, a new deck would still not be 'right'. I kind of had to go for it. If you like the way that mine look now then as long as you execute the opperation carefully and take your time, it should be okay. With the 'scissor' option, you do have a lot of control. I think it is important to just not rush it. Hopefully, Gardener will be in touch soon with her experiences. If it works for her as well, then maybe the prospect will not be so scary. Have a practice first and see what happens. If you have any queries about how to actually do it, just ask. Yaboot

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
BTW ... as far as making a 'pig's ear' of it, that is exactly the phrase that came to mind for me before I did it ... but I was pleasantly surprised. Have confidence in yourself. As I said before though, I don't want to encourage everyone to go mutilate their decks and create a monster, so if it all goes wrong, don't blame me, lol. (**Yaboot raises his hands and says 'it was nothing to do with me ... I didn't pull the trigger'** Yaboot

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
Another example of how the courts work together ... "A stand off between the Prince and the Knight" "The Sword Prince's hypnotic gaze ... but the Cup's Prince closed his eyes - he has other things on his mind!". I have been using the Grimaud for court exercises from the Greer book, but looking at how these courts now interact, I may try a couple of exercises from the book with them. Yaboot

darwinia	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tarot Galadriel I don't have the thoth, Im one of those it scares a bit, my Mum did a good job of scaring me off that one, with the tales of Crowely !! lol Plus a promise that I would never own it A promise to Mum? Well, tell your Mum I didn't die when I bought it, and I was scared too. The house didn't adopt strange emanations or anything. As several people told me, focus on the incredible artwork by Frieda Harris, who seems to have been a rather intelligent, creative type. Also, Crowley was a master at building the myth, he was like a Hollywood celebrity in that respect, the Librace of the Tarot. I never take him too, too seriously. And lastly, it's a deck of cards. Printed with ink and cardstock by a publisher, never handled or haunted by Old Crowl. I much prefer Thoth cards to R-W cards, but I don't do endless comparisons of either system, I just work with the cards the way I like. The small version is not expensive and is nicely produced, why not have a go? If you still feel it's weird after you get it and read and contribute your thoughts, there is a wonderful Trading Forum here and you can trade it for a different deck. It really is a beautiful deck, I've been thinking of buying the large version.

Jewel-ry	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 SNIP, SNIP, SNIP ..... I should change my tag from 'Phantom Dressmaker' to 'Demon Card Barber'..... Yeah! You should definately do that! I have this picture in my mind of you, last night, with your mum and dad saying 'shall I?' As soon as your mum said she didn't want you moaning if you messed them up, I knew you were going to do it! Its almost like a dare isn't it? A transformation for the better. I'm still thinking about it. I have a small pair of curved scissors which are very sharp, which I think would do for the corners. I just need to be sure.... :)

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel-ry Yeah! You should definately do that! I can see it now - "Yaboot's Demon Barber Salon" - "So Madam, what can I do for you? Do you want a slight 'border trim' or are you looking for a more radical cut? I can do you a whole new look and cut away all those tired and dry keywords for a tenner!. Your husband will love it ... snip, snip. Going on holiday this year ......?" Yab

Gardener	19 Aug 2004
I didn't want Yaboot to think I was chickening out, so I took my too dull scissors to make just one or two cards, but couldn't stop! It is scary but exhilirating, and sooooooooooooooo satisfying. I did muff one of the edges, so I decided to walk down the hill to contrascarpe's mother to borrow better scissors. Funny how it didn't occur to me that she would then volunteer to help with the cards... hee hee. We got halfway, then drove to the craft store for a corner rounder and better long scissors. I just stopped by to report that the cards are FAR, FAR more beautiful, and I think I'll buy a few more decks and cut them down too and sell them for twice the price. Mwaaahhhaaaaahaaaaa

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
Okay, I have just finished mine too, and it was SCARY!! They were brand new from the pack, never even shuffled ! My heart was pounding on that first cut, then I felt sick and had to do the rest. Once you get to the 50th card or so, the nerves finally go ! lol Now Im done, they look like they have always been that way, I LOVE THEM !!! I can't even remember what they looked like with borders ! All the keywords are in the cards image anyway, just not so loud as before, so nothing is lost. The artwork just pours off the card at you, they really do look incredible like this, so much better. I prefer the size too, much easier to handle. Thanks Yaboot, I would never have done this without seeing your pics. I am so happy I did this. PS: I did order a second copy though, just so I had an untouched set for my collection ! ;o)

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
Oh, I used a sliding guillotene for mine, you know, those personal cutters...........worked great. Drew round the corners like Yaboot said and cut the corners by hand.

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
ooh ooh, even better, they now fit perfectly into my Llewellyn tarot bag ! I have been saving that for a special deck, and this one fits perfectly !!

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
HHHOOOORRRRRRAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!! Well done, you two!!!! I am so pleased that you both did it. I keep getting them out to look at them. Do you also notice the numbers more Gardener? The whole deck seems to have more personality for me than it did before. They do feel so different, don't they? I know what you mean ... my heart was pounding when I cut into that first one. Good job guys! Yaboot

Tarot Galadriel	19 Aug 2004
it is a great way to bond with a deck too, i feel really connected with it now ! They do look lovely, even my hubby said they looked a lot better. Once he got over the shock that I had been brave enough to cut! lol

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
Just one last tip; Raven suggested that a little light sandpapering may smooth the edges should they be a little icky. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	19 Aug 2004
Well, I've made the first cut!! I am only doing the straight edges, the corners will wait until tomorrow when I have daylight.

The 78th Fool	19 Aug 2004
Finally bought my copy of the Rohrig today. It's even more awesome than I thought it would be. I find the Thoth tarot very difficult to deal with so for a long time I steered away from Thoth format decks. I left getting acquainted with this deck for far too long. I've bonded with it instantly and I just sense that I'll be able to read well with it. Ironically, now I have it and despite the beautiful scans of the borderless cards provided by Yaboot, I don't think I will trim the cards down. For some bizarre reason, the keywords aren't bothering me - which for me is totally out of character. It may be because there's often so much else written in the body of the artwork which helps to counter them. Maybe sometime down the line I'll buy another set when I can afford and keep a trimmed and an untrimmed version. Chris. xx

Jewel-ry	19 Aug 2004
Wow Yaboot! I've done about a dozen and even did the corners too but I'm posting here because I have just done the 3 of Disks and it looks fantastic, almost 3D. Yes 3D, the card has depth. Amazing! I am so glad I did this. :)

Gardener	19 Aug 2004
Finally done! Actually, I cheated, contrascarpe's mom finished them off while I was posting my midday account. They look GREAT! I do see the numbers, Yaboot, but for me the big difference is the richness of color. The deck is surreal, it is bathed in psychedelic color, it's almost vibrating. Surprises me how strong it is. And as someone noted, the keywords are in the card, somewhere, but this way they are whispering rather than shouting. Very happy. Want to do more. Oh, I tried the corner punch and it's okay, but I was just as happy with the effect from carving with the scissors. I also kept the keywords, trimmed around the corners there, and I'm going to use them for writing exercises. I hope that when he gets home, contrascarpe will be pleased by the changes to his deck! Now, the big question ... How do you all feel about the keywords on the Voyager?

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
3 Discs! 3 Cheers! Hey hey Jewel-ry! I am so pleased that you did it. Keep going! Looking forward to hearing how they feel when you have done the whole lot. That's four of us now! It's so liberating; I feel like we have just burnt our bra's!!, lol. Chris, I understand your not wanting to cut as much as our wanting to. Different strokes for different folks. The keywords and borders really don't bother everyone. I have had the Rohrig for about eight or nine years and I think that the relationship needed a boost; it has brought us even closer. Maybe, in time,you will feel a need to do that. Until then, I am so pleased you are enjoying your new deck and hope you join us all in discussion via the study group in the general section. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Gardener I also kept the keywords, trimmed around the corners there, and I'm going to use them for writing exercises. Hi there Gardener, Funny you should say this, I literally dug mine all out of the bin just two minutes ago. I think they may come in useful at some time, perhaps for my journal or something. I love the effect. :)

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
Hey Gardener - we keep posting at exactly the same time, lol. I am so glad you are loving the deck as much as I am. It is pretty much jumping about in it's little zip up case as I type; now I have sheared off its winter coat, it just wants to spring into action. I don't have the Voyager so at least, I don't have to worry about that one. Even though, the confidence this exercise has given me means I won't think twice next time I get a deck that needs a bit of a chop. I had considered doing it to the 'Light and Shadow' before but the back designs would suffer, I think, and also, some of the cards (such as 'The Sun', if I remember rightly) are different size images from the others. Yaboot

The 78th Fool	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 I had considered doing it to the 'Light and Shadow' before but the back designs would suffer, I think, and also, some of the cards (such as 'The Sun', if I remember rightly) are different size images from the others. Yaboot [/b] You're right about the artwork differing in size from card to card, making trimming impossible. Also the cards are so big and wide it's difficult to find a wooden box that they will fit into. I've ended up making my Giant Rider - Waite temporarily homeless until I can afford to go to Camden market and buy another box to fit ! There's a shop in there which is the only place I've found so far that does boxes this big! Thankfully the Rohrig fits beautifully in a gorgeous white limewaxed box that I had intended for the Light and Shadow, so that's one less worry! Chris. xx

Little Baron	19 Aug 2004
The Rohrig, from it's early days had a lovely big, ornate box. The inside is all lined in black felt and the lid is engraved and has a nice little catch on the front. They fit perfectly. Or should I say, before the chop, they fitted perfectly. Now, however, they have a new home. This is going to sound absolutely awful but they now live in a perfectly sized leather black pencil case with a zip. They fit in so snuggly and it is ideal for carrying the deck around. It even feels nice and snug in your hand and you can feel them within it. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	19 Aug 2004
I have done 21 (good number!) now and I love them! My hand hurts from the scissors so I shall continue tomorrow. I may even re-join the study group now I have a new deck to play with :)

darwinia	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Gardener I also kept the keywords, trimmed around the corners there, and I'm going to use them for writing exercises. Oh, is that a hook or what? I could trim the cards and have the keywords in the box with the paint chip words. Oooooh. Prudence could have a dance with Honey Gold, Celebrity and the crooked rose from a Dylan Thomas poem.

Gardener	19 Aug 2004
Darwinia, I simply must know, What color is Celebrity?

Niomi	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Gardener I just stopped by to report that the cards are FAR, FAR more beautiful, and I think I'll buy a few more decks and cut them down too and sell them for twice the price. Mwaaahhhaaaaahaaaaa Let me know if you're seriously willing to do this, I may consider buying a keywordless Rohrig from you!

darwinia	19 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Gardener Darwinia, I simply must know, What color is Celebrity? Well, it's a little more buttery than Hidden Sun but deeper in saturation than Duckling and doesn't have as much grey in it as Double Cream. It's kind of close to Egg Nog but golder. [much hooting and slapping of knees from the colour coordinator at this point.] Methinks I see the colour of the maturity of middle age. [gasping guffaws send the correspondent hurtling to bed to read the summer issue of watercolor magazine.]

Tarot Galadriel	20 Aug 2004
Well, it's the day after the chop and my middle finger is still numb from holding the scissors ! lol It went numb during the last 5 cards, and only half the feeling has come back by this morning , must have been holding the scissors against a nerve or something lol Feels wierd typing as that fingers feels like someone elses ! lol Im going to start a new journal today, one just for my Rohrig. Will be going back over the old threads to see what I can learn. Went through the Rohrig book last night too, great for majors but nothing for minors, shame. One, thing, I noticed that all the plates of the cards in the book, are full colour borderless ones, with no yucky keywords.........I think they were indeed designed to have no border. Especailly when each card has the keyword and title within the art anyway. I feel real happy I trimmed mine, the cards look so free to speak now, almost like they were muffled before, restricted. I have the Voyager, Gardener, don't tempt me to trim another ! lol Have to say I don't really use that one much, so I will keep that one as is, haven't connected with that as much as the Rohrig

Little Baron	20 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tarot Galadriel Im going to start a new journal today, one just for my Rohrig. Moonbow and I were discussing this in another thread. We were saying it may be nice to share journal pages within the study group. I did post a scan or two there. Quote: Originally posted by Tarot Galadriel One, thing, I noticed that all the plates of the cards in the book, are full colour borderless ones, with no yucky keywords.........I think they were indeed designed to have no border. Especailly when each card has the keyword and title within the art anyway. I went back to my book as well and hadn't realised before that they were 'keyword-less'. Darwinia mentioned earlier that Rohrig probably never intended for them to be there, and I agree. I always find it such a shame that there is no accompanying website to the deck and no means of contact with the artist. Maybe there is and I just havn't found it. As much as their is more written about the majors, I still find what is written there to be quite standard. What I really want from an accompanying book is to know why certain symbols and imagery is there, which in a lot of cases, this one doesn't do. I don't know if you saw the thread, but James Dean is used as The Hermit. I recognised him straight away as I have the photo that it was taken from in a James Dean biography. Looking at the 'Death' card the other day, I saw another simularity in the woman. Not her face, but the pose and also, what she was wearing. It struck me that I had, like with the James Dean image, seen that pose before at some time in my life. I firstly thought it was Marilyn Monroe in the film 'Gentlemen Prefer Blondes' (from the 'Diamonds Are A Girls Best Friend' number) and did a search. Aside from the long gloves, the dress is pretty much the same, regardless of different colouring. I then wondered if rather than it being Monroe, it was taken from a still from Madonna's 'Material Girl' video, which paid homage to the film. I know I have seen this pose before and will eventually find out where I have seen it. I wonder if it was a concious decision to use these people as 'models'. We discussed previously how Dean became a hermit after his mother died and that it affected him deeply. In that sense, could Madonna be the perfect example of the 'Death' card - a woman infamously known for being a chameleon - cutting away what has already been and evolving through her constant new images. Re-inventing herself like some kind of re-birth. When I illustrate my clothes for my portfolio, sometimes I will go through magazines, and as a starting point, if a model within one has a good pose, I occasionally, copy that pose, and alter the face, hair, clothes and colouring to suit my own illustration. Is that what Rohrig did, or is there a deeper significance to his choosing of his models??? Just a few thoughts. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	20 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tarot Galadriel One, thing, I noticed that all the plates of the cards in the book, are full colour borderless ones, with no yucky keywords.........I think they were indeed designed to have no border. Especailly when each card has the keyword and title within the art anyway. I noticed this last night too. There is no evidence of any borders or keywords at all. In fact, I have always condemned the book because it doesn't give much more information than the lwb, but on reflection, its quite nice. The size is ideal and if you want to study the cards without actually getting them out, the book is excellent as the size and colours and even the paper make it almost 'life-like' (especially now that mine have no borders too!) I'm about half way now and still cutting. I am having to take my time as I have sores (which may blister) on my fingers :( :)

Jewel-ry	20 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 I don't know if you saw the thread, but James Dean is used as The Hermit. I recognised him straight away as I have the photo that it was taken from in a James Dean biography. Looking at the 'Death' card the other day, I saw another simularity in the woman. Not her face, but the pose and also, what she was wearing. It struck me that I had, like with the James Dean image, seen that pose before at some time in my life. I firstly thought it was Marilyn Monroe in the film 'Gentlemen Prefer Blondes' (from the 'Diamonds Are A Girls Best Friend' number) and did a search. Aside from the long gloves, the dress is pretty much the same, regardless of different colouring. I then wondered if rather than it being Monroe, it was taken from a still from Madonna's 'Material Girl' video, which paid homage to the film. I know I have seen this pose before and will eventually find out where I have seen it. I wonder if it was a concious decision to use these people as 'models'. You know, I have often thought that The Empress looks like Kylie Minogue but I guess that's not likely since I think the deck is probably older that her fame :D :)

darwinia	20 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tarot Galadriel One, thing, I noticed that all the plates of the cards in the book, are full colour borderless ones, with no yucky keywords.........I think they were indeed designed to have no border. Especailly when each card has the keyword and title within the art anyway. Holy Smokin' Words of Rohrig! I never bought the book because the cards alone cost me about $48 with the tax. I am torn. I have to buy new scissors anyway, so I might buy two pair for doing this. I just can't decide. Oh and Yab, your notebook looked kind of familiar to me. The style was very much like a wizard I used to know who sent me a sample from his notebook and a drawing of an action hero card. Very similar, imagine that. I tried drawing a model from a magazine. I didn't do too badly although I missed capturing the twinkle from his eyes. When I tried to colour him in Photoshop, he looked like Boy George wearing make-up. I still have the sketch and intend to properly colour it in PS one day. He was a chartered accountant named Robert the Nerd who felt that molecules in the desk were trying to get him. I had a whole little story and fake web page for him. He was insane but cooked a good set of books. {rambles on...}

Little Baron	20 Aug 2004
As I said, I wouldn't advise anybody to go out of their way and buy this book. I only bought it because I found it relatively cheaply when I was out shopping in London. It was just there, so I picked it up and bought it along with a Thoth book. Quite a disappointment. As Jewel-ry said, the only good thing about it is that you can carry it with you, rather than the deck and in that sense, it is easy to refer to quickly. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	20 Aug 2004
I'm done!! I have sore fingers but the deck is absolutely beautiful now! Not only do the colours jump out at me but there now seem to be colours that weren't there before. I know, I know - that's impossible, but it appears that way to me. Some of the cards positively look 3D and the people who are head on now appear so much closer. Furthermore, they are now easier to shuffle. Thank you Yaboot for making the first cut!! I couldn't (or should I say wouldn't?) have done it without you. :)

Little Baron	20 Aug 2004
Hey Jewel-ry I am so so pleased you did this as well. I was so worried I would ruin them at first and hate the results, but I feel closer to them than ever now. Thanks for the kind words. However, even though I provoked you by making the first cut, it was Gardener that provoked me, so it is her that really deserves the acclaim. If she hadn't have said 'I'll do it if you do it", I probably would still be sitting here moaning about the keywords and doing nothing about it. It certainly is infectuous though; firstly, Gardener and I chopped. Then you and Tarot Galadriel chopped. Hedera says that she is probably going to chop, and Darwinia is off to buy some scissors. I spoke to Centaur about the Rohrig and he says he may buy it. If he does, he said he will chop as well. And Moonbow is thinking about it as well. I am just waiting for a newbie to come in and say 'I work with the Rohrig ... does anybody use that deck' and being greeted in the 'New Members' thread with a chorus of 'CHOP IT!'. Yaboot

Jewel-ry	20 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Thanks for the kind words. However, even though I provoked you by making the first cut, it was Gardener that provoked me, so it is her that really deserves the acclaim. If she hadn't have said 'I'll do it if you do it", I probably would still be sitting here moaning about the keywords and doing nothing about it ....... Thanks Gardener, it seems I have you to thank too for this little piece of inspiration. Can't thank-you enough. It feels like I have a completely new deck. :)

darwinia	20 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 I spoke to Centaur about the Rohrig and he says he may buy it. If he does, he said he will chop as well. 'Bout time he bought something other than crystals. Besides it's Thoth-based, he'd love it. Remember the Devo song "Whip It"?? Sure you do. (Modified slightly by Darwinia to fit the currenbt theme) Crack that scissor Give the past the oar Trim a curve Break your nerve. When a keyword comes along You must chop it Before the border sits too long You must chop it When Prudence is going wrong You must chop it now chop it into shape shape it up get straight go forward move ahead try to trim it it's not too late to chop it chop it good When a good corner turns around You must chop it You will never live it down Unless you chop it No one gets their way Until they chop it I say chop it Chop it good

Ace	23 Aug 2004
You guys RULE! wow, such bravery! I may do that to mine too, eventually. I like the pix but the keywords are sooooo NEGATIVE. If this "livens up" the deck, I might try it!

Sulis	23 Aug 2004
Well thanks, you've made me want the Rhorig now. I've always quite liked this deck but I'm averse to decks with keywords and I don't really like white borders either. My favoriet decks - Morgan Greer, World Spirit and Glastonbury have either no borders or black ones. Yaboot - your cards look so good - I remember when Ravenswing did this with the Gill and Pollux raved about it. Hmmmmmmmmm - you guys ;) Love Sulis xx

Little Baron	23 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel-ry It feels like I have a completely new deck. :) I am so glad you are enjoying the cards and it really is like having a new deck! It just feels completely different and I am finding it hard to remember what it was like before. Sulis, I understand exactly how you feel about the keywords and the borders. They really didn't help me appreciate the deck. Ace, I also found some of those keywords to be so negative. When I look at the cards now, aside from a couple, I can't remember what any of the words for the cards were and now I can make my own associations. Thanks to you all. This has been such a great experience. Yaboot

Imagemaker	02 Sep 2004
Applause to all of you! I have cut off the borders from my New Palladini and liked it so much better afterward. I don't have the Rohrig, but now want to get one and trim it. The scans are stunning!

Jewel-ry	03 Sep 2004
I have to say Imagemaker, This is a completely different deck without the borders. Talking about it doesn't do it justice. You need to see it to appreciate it. Now ... when are you going to buy your deck? I shall be watching this thread for your progress ;)

Little Baron	03 Sep 2004
I can't believe what has happened since I started this thread; it's great that so many have trimmed the deck up and are happy with the results. Power to you all. Yaboot

Imagemaker	03 Sep 2004
Well, I've made my first steps . . . no deck yet (have to order it from Tarotgarden, will get the German one) BUT I bought the corner rounder! And I have some special super sharp titanium scissors. *pacing around, looking for things to trim* (What else can I use my corner rounder on?)

Imagemaker	03 Sep 2004
BTW, someone said they'd paid $48, but the German version is $25 at Tarotgarden and since I'm cutting the words off, that's great!

Jewel-ry	03 Sep 2004
You wont regret it! But please keep those sharp things covered in case you come across your Haindl, I hear some have trimmed that deck too!! ~

Tarot Galadriel	03 Sep 2004
I saw that too.....gets you thinking huh !? lol What have we done ! lol

Imagemaker	03 Sep 2004
Hmmm, the Haindl? Will ponder . . . What trimming does to the back design IS a factor. I've ordered my German Rohrig (Jeannette made sure I knew it had no English words), so will wait by the mailbox. Besides what trimming does for the art, I also always like that it makes the decks smaller. It's also a great exercise in c-a-r-e-f-u-l concentration.

shelikes2read	06 Sep 2004
I'm curious... maybe people here could send some scans of keywordless cards to the publisher, and asking THEM to print a keyword-free version of the deck? How about a group letter signed by multiple Tarot-philes who have a) trimmed their deck and LOVE the results, and/or b) have been put off from buying or using the deck specifically because of the keywords? If the people at the publisher care about Tarot Cards for the cards themselves, and the borderless/keywordless deck is considered to be a vast improvement, maybe they'll want to print a no-border, no-keyword edition. And if their main or only priority is selling card decks, then some feedback from Tarot afficionados and collectors, stating that the keywords are enough to steer them away from purchasing the deck, should make them want to produce the alternative version of the deck in order to appeal to more potential buyers. It's just a thought. :) P.S. Don't tell them if you have decided to get TWO decks, one to keep intact and one to trim on your own. That'll kind of remove the incentive for them to produce the no-keyword edition themselves. ;)

ferrous	17 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by darwinia Remember the Devo song "Whip It"?? Sure you do. (Modified slightly by Darwinia to fit the currenbt theme) Crack that scissor Give the past the oar Trim a curve Break your nerve. [.. snip ..] [.. or perhaps 'chop' would be more appropriate? :d ..] When a good corner turns around You must chop it You will never live it down Unless you chop it No one gets their way Until they chop it I say chop it Chop it good rotfl Darwinia!! Nice job. :D What a thread. It was great reading it from the beginning "Should I? Shouldn't I?" through to the exciting conclusion, even if I did already know the ending, since I found this link from another thread. *chuckle* Good one, people. :)

The Rohrig Keywords thread was originally posted on 17 Aug 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.