Burn Baby Burn
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Sep 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| WolfyJames |
27 Sep 2004 |
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Have you ever thought of taking one of your deck and burn it? Of course, I'm sure Umbrae's there and thinking: I'm well known for burning LWBs... But I'm not talking about LWB, I'm talking about a deck, be it tarot or oracle.
I've been wanting to burn one deck of mine, that I've had for many years. I forgot I had it actually but I rediscovered I had it when I came here. I was surprised to see it because I was sure I had burned it. The deck is question is a Tarot de Marseille, or so it says. You know how traumatized I was the first time I saw a tarot, a Tarot de Marseille to be more exact, and how long it kept me away from tarot. This deck didn't help me to like one bit Tarot de Marseille when I got it. When I discovered the deck survived my fury, I thought at least I could use it for study. So, bravely, I went in the Tarot de Marseille section with the desire to learn more in mind. I was so disapointed afterwards to discover that this deck is not even a real Tarot de Marseille. I can assure you Diana, this deck is all wrong, it's useless to feel pity for it. The table on Le Bateleur has three legs, right? Well, on this deck the table has four legs. I'm not going to mention the details that are just plain wrong on each cards, let's just say that the little compassion I felt for this deck disappeared like snow under the sun.
So after this, I decided to burn it. But unlike Umbrae, I have no experience into burning anything. Worse, I'm a keeper, I keep everything. That is the reason why the deck is still there after all these years. I've spent months trying to get rid of it, I thought I had to do so in a meaningful way. I finally found the best way to get rid of it: as a sacrifice to the Gods. Today is the deck's last day, I took it out of the box so that it can take some fresh air. It will be sacrified tonight to the Gods, it is the full moon tonight and it is monday today, the moon day. Perfect for the spell I'm working on. So it's useless to beg for its life, it's going down tonight.
In the meanwhile, I'll hold my beloved Fournier who is soothing my soul and healing the scars left by the Tarot de Marseille decks who traumatized me.
What about you? Have you ever burned a deck, or at least thought about it?
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| zorya |
27 Sep 2004 |
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :eek: :(
couldn't you maybe give it to someone?
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| closrapexa |
27 Sep 2004 |
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I dunno. I've never though of burning a deck. I mean, if I have one I don't want anymore I give it away, or trade it, or something else. But burning seems so... final. Some of my decks have become almost like friends to me, and when the time comes that I won't be able to use them anymore, I guess I'll put them out to retire. But then, I'm a keeper too...
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| Imagemaker |
27 Sep 2004 |
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As long as you're set on this burning, how about turning it into a meaningful ritual? Burn away a bad habit, an old grudge, an emotional burden with each card.
Declare to the tarot gods a valid purpose for each card's destruction, in alleviating something that is holding you back/down. Of course, you'll need 78 emotional/physical/spiritual blocks to get rid of . . . may take awhile . . .
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| lark |
27 Sep 2004 |
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Wolfy, as I read your post I remember well the day you first talked about your scare with the Marseille deck.
And I know you have been trying to make peace with it for at least a year now.
I think it will be a soul soothing experience for you to burn it in a beautiful spell ritual.
I myself have burned a deck and put the ashes in a little bag I tied to my big oak tree.
I let the universe reclaim it by wind and rain.
I sewed a little bell to the bag so it would make a little jiggle in the wind.
(Maybe it was to alert the Tarot Gods that the spirit of a deck was being sent out into the universe.)
Aren't I a silly girl? :D
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| WolfyJames |
27 Sep 2004 |
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You're not a silly girl lark, on the contrary. I never thought of what would happen after the ritual, what I would do with the remains of the deck, and I think you just gave me a good idea here. Thanks! :)
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| Flavio |
27 Sep 2004 |
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You have already made up your mind about burning the deck, the fact is you hate it, I understand is a bad Marseilles clone, why don't you use the poor deck to publish on the web something like "How to know when you are in front of a bad Marseilles deck clone" (that was a VERY cheap intent to beg for the life of the deck :( )
If the deck is going to burn anyway... to burn it with purpose in a ritual as you had been suggested seems the best to do.
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| HudsonGray |
27 Sep 2004 |
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Do it in a fire safe way, though--OUTDOORS and in a cooking pot to contain the flames. Don't use teflon. Put the pot on concrete, maybe add sand inside the pot to stick the cards into & protect the pot's surface a bit. Also have a cover nearby, you don't want burning bits of card being taken by the wind, causing fire hazard to the houses around you.
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| Umbrae |
27 Sep 2004 |
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Burning LWB (or decks) directions:
1) Use a wood-burning stove or fireplace (be sure to get a draft going first).
2) Use a bar-b-que or a habatchi (out doors).
3) Use no artificial ‘starter’ fluids (petroleum products, vodka, etc.) they can flair up and cause injury or death.
4) If you use a cook pot, most likely it will never be usable in the kitchen again. Cast Iron is recommended, it is designed for use on wood-burning stoves, so it can take direct high heat. Not all cookware can take high direct heat – and you may find yourself with an issue.
5) Look around – dry grass? Overhanging dry trees? Big no-no.
6) Enjoy the fire, bring weenies.
7) Are you really sure you want to destroy the deck? Make sure before you apply flame. Years from now you may wish you had it…
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| Myrrha |
27 Sep 2004 |
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Terrific idea WolfyJames
It sounds from the way you write about it as though this is a good step for you to take and you have considered well. Getting rid of things in a final and irrevocable way can be very liberating.
---Myrrha
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| OakDragon |
27 Sep 2004 |
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Hmm, sounds like it could be a good spiritually cleansing ritual! One other word of caution, though... I wouldn't stand too close while it's burning... who knows what sort of toxic fumes they could give off?
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| Ravenswing |
28 Sep 2004 |
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...and then scatter the ashes to the four winds.....
fry well
Raven
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| WolfyJames |
28 Sep 2004 |
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I want to thank you for all your advices on how to burn the deck without myself getting burned in the process. It forced me to be more prudent, and I assure you everything went fine. The ritual went fine too but the burning process was... exausting. Burning a deck is not as easy as it seems because decks don't burn, as I have just discovered. Well, mine was not burning, so it took me an hour and a half to manage to burn the whole deck. :( I thought it would take 15-20 minutes. I was so exausted that I didn't know why I was doing it anymore, then looking at the cards, the reason came to me each time and kept me going. I have put the ashes in a bag and I plan to scatter them to the four winds; I was too exausted yesterday to do it so I will do it tonight.
Originally posted by closrapexa
I dunno. I've never though of burning a deck. I mean, if I have one I don't want anymore I give it away, or trade it, or something else.
I did try to trade it, this is probably the first thing I did when I came here. I was rather ignorant about tarot when I showed up and I thought that this deck could be considered interesting by some. I decided afterwards to use it to study, as I mentionned earlier.
Originally posted by Umbrae
6) Enjoy the fire, bring weenies.
7) Are you really sure you want to destroy the deck? Make sure before you apply flame. Years from now you may wish you had it…
I want to thank you for all your advices, I know how much experience you have at burning LWBs. I didn't really enjoy the fire as much as I thought I would, as for the weenies, I have no idea what they are, would you care to explain? I know I'm not going to wish I had it in the future, I prefer having a real Tarot de Marseille, like my Fournier, and who knows, I might get another one in the future.
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| Umbrae |
28 Sep 2004 |
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Originally posted by WolfyJames
Well, mine was not burning, so it took me an hour and a half to manage to burn the whole deck. :( I thought it would take 15-20 minutes.
I didn't really enjoy the fire as much as I thought I would, as for the weenies, I have no idea what they are, would you care to explain? Someday in the future (which soon becomes the past – and which makes tense’s in language so silly) you will again want to burn something special.
I recommend investing in a small bar-b-que. A Weber ‘Smokey Joe’ does the trick. You can cook on it in the summer, it’s small enough to use on a balcony of an apartment – take it camping…
You get some briquettes going, and then add a few cards at a time (after the food is cooked).
Weenies is a colloquial noun for sausages cooked over a fire. A good quality bratwurst is a weenie. Most yanks would say ‘hot dogs’ (disgusting mixture of lips and snouts). A Kosher Polish Sausage…yum…
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| Jewel-ry |
28 Sep 2004 |
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I reckon you were really brave Wolfy, I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it. Three cheers for you
:CL:CL:CL
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| SongDeva |
28 Sep 2004 |
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Originally posted by Umbrae
Weenies is a colloquial noun for sausages cooked over a fire. A good quality bratwurst is a weenie. Most yanks would say ‘hot dogs’ (disgusting mixture of lips and snouts). A Kosher Polish Sausage…yum…
Weenies are hot dogs, ya NW Yank, you! I thought it was lips and anuses. Ani? Hmmmmmmm.
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| lark |
28 Sep 2004 |
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Well, Wolfy it might have been tiring.
But don't you feel a whole lot lighter? :D
Glad it turned out alright.
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| WolfyJames |
29 Sep 2004 |
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Originally posted by SongDeva
Weenies are hot dogs, ya NW Yank, you! I thought it was lips and anuses. Ani? Hmmmmmmm.
Well well well, I don't like hot dogs, never have. I'm feeling lucky knowing I never ate whatever is in there, described in the article. I'm not missing out much apparently. ;)
Originally posted by lark
Well, Wolfy it might have been tiring.
But don't you feel a whole lot lighter? :D
Glad it turned out alright.
My arms are indeed feeling better today. ;) And I'm feeling lighter, yes. ;) It was a great experience, and next time I will borrow my friend's barbecue. :D
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| Diana |
29 Sep 2004 |
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Well, that's one nasty deck that will no longer parade itself as a Tarot of Marseilles. Good riddance!
(I once bought a hot-dog in Central Park. One for me, one for my son. I was very ignorant about hot-dogs - I had always seen people eating hot-dogs in American movies and I thought they would be tasty. After taking a bite, we threw it in the bin. We were nauseous the whole day and the day after - after only one bite. I have never tasted anything so disgusting in my life.)
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| WolfyJames |
29 Sep 2004 |
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I was a bit worried Diana when I noticed that you didn't show up for my burning ritual. I was persuaded that you would come up later with an attack, or better, kick me in Umbrea's burning barbecue. :D
What disapoint me the most is that this deck was given as starter deck to learn Tarot de Marseille, when it was not even a real one. It's out of print in French, but apparently, it was translated and being published in English. I didn't even want to trade it anymore when I discovered that.
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| smokey |
30 Sep 2004 |
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Three cheers for Wolfy!
Hoorah! Hoorah! Hoorah!
Soo glad All went Well, & that you have some peace of mind now! All my Best...
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| jmd |
30 Sep 2004 |
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so... it's burned???
Had you also read my earlier comment about burning a Marseille :D ?!!?
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| WolfyJames |
30 Sep 2004 |
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No, sorry, I didn't know Pollux burned a Tarot de Marseille before me, and he burned a real Tarot de Marseille (I think).
Originally posted by jmd
As far as forgiving you, there is no need! For every deck burned or wilfully destroyed, a hundred Marseilles decks will flourish anew :) - but please don't go out and burn more because of this!!!
Thanks for the words of wisdom jmd! ;)
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| WolfSpirit |
01 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by WolfyJames
Burning a deck is not as easy as it seems because decks don't burn, as I have just discovered. Well, mine was not burning, so it took me an hour and a half to manage to burn the whole deck. :( I thought it would take 15-20 minutes. I was so exausted that I didn't know why I was doing it anymore, then looking at the cards, the reason came to me each time and kept me going.
Even burning a book is not really that easy unless you have a big fire going. I wanted to burn a book (well, two books) once and I tried to light the book as a whole with a match and that just did not work - I had to burn the pages one by one as I did not have a big fire where I could toss the whole book in, and I also got very tired of doing that. In the end I did not burn the second one but just cut it up.
They were very bad books on wicca, not explaining anything properly and giving wrong historical facts to boot. I tried to trade them first but had no takers - then I decided I did not want to trade books that would just be a disappointment.
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| lili |
05 May 2005 |
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Beside burning a deck i would suggest why no just to put it in the trash an avoid the danger of getting burn or just give it to someone who can't afford to buy a deck.:D
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| tarotbear |
06 May 2005 |
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This whole thread escapes me ... why burn a deck?
"Feirenheit 451" came to mind - the amount of heat you need to cause a book to burst into flames - also the title of a still-excellent movie.
A co-worker went through her 'I'm a born again idiot' phase and burned her daughter's Tarot deck - she asked me why the pictures on the cards didn't burn away. I thought to myself - what?- are we back into book burnings, next the tarot cards, today track down the heretics, tomorrow the Betty Crocker cookbooks?
The logical part of me says that a deck is an inanimate object - who cares if you burned it or shoved it down the toilet or ground it up in a garbage disposal?
The passionate being in me is appaled ...
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| Little Baron |
06 May 2005 |
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I can never imagine burning a deck myself, as personally, I couldn't imagine what would come out of the experience possiitively for me or the deck ... unless, it was one that had bad vibes and you just wanted to be rid of them once and for all - like all of that haunted deck stuff (if such a thing exists).
Out of interest, what was the deck? I have been trying to imagine the cards, and don't know of this bad Marseille copy.
I think that if I wanted to get rid of the deck that badly. I would take it with me to many places - on trains, for country walks, shopping, to libraries - leaving one card in a different place each time - waiting to be found by someone else - one pinned to a tree in a wood, for example; another slotted into a library book for someone to find; under the wind-screen wipers of cars, propped up in a train toilet, down the back of a sofa in a pub. The deck would move and expand through all of my travels, and in some cases would be rewarding to those who found it - maybe even opening their mind to the tarot. Years later, someone may find there way on here and in their introduction say something like 'I found this card on the plane to Sweden and it seemed so interesting that I read up about it ... I found it all so interesting that I came across this site and ordered my first deck today', lol.
I don't know ... whatever makes you happy. Glad that you are relieved it is gone, whatever way you disposed of it.
LB
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| Lillie |
06 May 2005 |
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I had one of then Jonathan Dee/Shirley Barker decks.
I stuck it in the wood burner in disgust.
It was ugly and it was lazy.
The artist had got bored after the wands and not bothered to illustrate any of the other suits in the way she did the first suit.
Give me another and I'll burn that too.
I hate that deck. On ebay, if there is a listing that just says 'Tarot deck' it's always that one. i have wasted a thousand clicks on it.
It bugs me.
It kept me warm for 10 minutes, so some good did come out of the horrible thing.
And anyway, it gave me some satisfaction.
I really do love burning things.
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| Little Baron |
06 May 2005 |
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I had that one, also, Lillie. I never burnt it but gave it to a friend. We havn't spoken in just under a year ... need I say more?
LB
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| Lillie |
06 May 2005 |
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:D
I should probably have given mine away too, but I was in one of those buring moods!
I met someone not long back, who showed me a 'wonderful, special, rare' deck that they had been given. It was that one!
I didn't say anything, just said it looked 'very interesting', and wasn't she lucky to have been given it.
So, someone likes it!
And she was so pleased with it, it would have been horrible and cruel of me to tell her what I really thought!
And of course, it's only my opinion. her liking it is as valid as me not liking it!
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| lark |
06 May 2005 |
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Coming from a very Catholic back ground (my mother grew up in a town that had an apparition of the Virgin Mary as part of it's history)
We were steeped in a kind of Catholic mysticism that maybe other Catholic families don't experience.
My mother often burned old used up prayer books and holy cards.
She would bury in the flower beds, the ashes of these little fires, rosaries with beads missing and once I came upon her digging a little hole to put a headless plastic St Joseph's statue in (the demise of said St. Joseph being traced to either the family dog or my baby brother who was teething at the time.)
When asked why she did these things she said it was so they would not fall into the wrong hands and be abused by someone.
It was out of respect to the sacred nature of the object and what it represented to her...her faith.
If one owns an object of spirituality one is obligated to dispose of it in a respectful manner.
Whether it is used up (as in my case) or in a cathartic way (as in WolfyJames case.)
My decks are my spiritual tools.
By burning a very used one I feel I am disposing of it in a natural respectful manner.
How many of us wonder what will become of our precious collections when we are gone?
And worry that they will fall into the wrong hands and not be as well loved and cared for as we would want to see them.
From what deep place does this feeling come?
We don't feel the same about the silverware in the drawer or the plastic garbage can.
They are just things...
But an object with a spiritual connection, a history, a gift from someone we love dearly, those are things that take on a nature and energy of the Divine.
Those are things worth cherishing and worth disposing of in a respectful manner when we are done with them.
I know there are some misguided people who burn things in the name of purging the world of an evil (or in their eye's evil) thing.
I know that wasn't my intention in posting my experience in this thread.
Or my intention in burning a very loved but used beyond recognition deck.
I just wanted everyone to know that.
I would hate to see this thread take that turn in the road.
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| mike gorth |
06 May 2005 |
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No matter how much I hated a deck, I'm not sure I could ever burn it. I have 5 decks, I currently gave one away, you know who you are. I only really use my Hanson-Roberts. I also have the universal waite which I hate but it was my first so there is no way I'm giving it up. I have the quick and easy which was a mistake. The thoth I hate and the witches tarot which likes to summon bad energy so.... but I'm going to get the Sharman-Caselli and the Nigel Jackson soon and I love those.
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| Lillie |
06 May 2005 |
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Hi Lark.
What you said about your mother is very interesting, shesounds like a fascinating woman. And her method of dealing with things that had been 'used up' is both poignant and beautiful.
I will remenber your story, and in future I may employ your mothers method myself. I have always felt fire to be a very purifying thing.
The deck I burned was just a momment of fire lust and irritation at something I never liked.
However my first proper deck, my original Thoth, which I had used daily for over a decade has a rather different story.
It was a bad time in my life, and I was getting rid of literally every thing I had owned and everything I cared about.
The climactic momment of this whole period in my life was when I took the deck and ritually took each card and tore it in half, ending with the hexagram.
I then bundled the pieces up in the cloth I had always laid them out on and binned them. It would have been a lot better if I could have burned them, but the place I was living did not allow for that.
This was an immensley sad and significant momment in my life, and I will never forget it. (probably nor will the poor sod that had to witness it!)
There was a huge sense of ritual about the whole thing, and I think that a part of me died that day.
But that, really, was the point of the whole excercise.
It took me a long time to get back into Tarot again after that. In fact it took a long time for me to e 'normal' again. And maybe I am not, even now.
I got me another Thoth.
But it is not 'mine' in the sense that the old one was.
It was a a great, glorious and terrible momment in my life.
The destruction of any much loved, much used deck is a thing of great significance, and should not be taken lightly.
I had another deck at that time, but it did not really matter so I gave it away. But the thing with the Thoth was that it was such a part of me that even though I knew I would never use it again, no one else should either. It was too important to me for that, too much a part of me.
It would have been like someone sticking their fingers into my soul and pulling bits out.
On the other hand the burning of some bit of trash that never mattered, wether it is a tarot deck or anything else, is of no significance what so ever.
I don't know why I have just told you all about one of the darkest momments of my life, sometimes on the net it is easy to speak, being more or less faceless and nameless to you all.
And in a way I was inspired by the image of Lark's mother burying st Joseph in the flower bed, because the dog or the baby had chewed his head off.
Life, eh? strange thing isn't it?
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| bleuivy |
06 May 2005 |
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I am actually thinking of burning a deck at the moment, and was actually just about to post about it when I saw this thread. I haven't committed to the burning process, and am looking for other suggestions.
The deck I'm thinking of buring is my Thoth. :eek:
It used to be my favorite deck, and was one of my first. I loved it. Now, however, I cannot stand even to hold it, let alone read with it. It isn't the images themselves (I'm sure I'll get another Thoth some day, though I'm deffinately in no rush), it's the deck. Every time I touch it, chills run up and down my spine, I get nervous, clammy, the whole nine yards. I even tested myself by mixing the cards up with a few of my more loved decks, closing my eyes, and reaching for a card that felt "wrong." The Thoth came up every time, so I don't think it's psychological.
I've tried trading it, with no takers, and I'm thinking of taking it off the trading block. I wouldn't want to saddle anyone else with the deck unless they knew what they were getting into.
With so many bad feelings swarming around this deck, I'm honestly considering burning it. I want those feelings gone. Although I do like LB's suggestion of getting rid of the deck in other, less distructive ways.
Anyone know ways to clear decks of bad energy like this? Or should I just give up and reach for the matches?
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| Lillie |
06 May 2005 |
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Hi bleuivy
Was there anything that happened that started the bad feeling with this deck?
Did it happen fast or slow?
Have you tried the usual things? visualising white/gold light surrounding the deck and pushing out the bad?
Or using herbs/crystals/smudge sticks etc.?
Do other people feel it too?
Cos if they do it is probably the deck. If they don't it is probably your reaction to the deck. (if you see what I mean)
Other people have had similar experiences with the Thoth. Emily has one deck that gives her the creeps and one that doesn't. Both Thoths!
You usually hear about it with the 'green' one, but yours is small, and they were never green. (I don't think)
Suggestion. Sell it on ebay as a 'haunted' deck. Tell (or invent) a few minor creepy things that have happened, and which you attribute to the deck, mention Crowley's reputation, gloss over the goat, and watch the bids roll in!
I just looked at you profile. I did my degree in archaeology. (not a masters though, just the ordinary)
what period are you studying, or which do you prefer to study?
I always liked the neolithic best. Even better than the bronze age with all the stone circles.
Good luck with your Masters, I bet that's hard work!
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| MercyMe |
06 May 2005 |
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What IS it with Thoth and burning? In a totally different forum that really has nothing to do with tarot, I was talking about reading tarot and a few of the other members chimed in with their varied experiences with tarot and one member said she had once owned a Thoth deck but burned it because she was getting really awful experiences surrounding the deck. Has never happened with her with any other deck.
I've looked at the Thoth deck. I like the pictures. I haven't purchased one because I'm still a newbie tarot reader and I'm getting used to one style of deck before branching out to others, but I do intend to become familiar with Thoth one day. What is UP with that deck? I've heard it's "voice" can be harsh and bullying, no nonsense. But that can't be all there is?
Curious.
~Mercy
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| bleuivy |
07 May 2005 |
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Was there anything that happened that started the bad feeling with this deck?
Did it happen fast or slow?
Good questions! It happened slowly, very slowly. It started that I just stopped reaching for the deck as often (this during a period when I only had two decks). I started noticing that the deck was giving me the creeps, but then I was interrupted with a 7-month absense from anything having to do with tarot. I was spending 7 months living in Egypt, and my mother heard that cards of any type were illegal there (they're not) and so physically removed my decks from my luggage before I left. I of course couldn't buy new ones in Egypt, so I did without for 7 months. When I got back, the deck that had been giving me the creeps began truly terrifying me just to hold.
Before I left I had been going through a very difficult time, and then in Egypt, I went through a huge ordeal, so maybe all of the bad feelings in the deck are just manifestations of the difficult times in which I had it. What do you think? Sound plausable?
In which case, the deck could have become a talisman into which I put all of those bad feelings. I'm not sure I would want the deck cleansed, as then where would all that negative energy go?
Have you tried the usual things? visualising white/gold light surrounding the deck and pushing out the bad?
Or using herbs/crystals/smudge sticks etc.?
I've tried the usual visualising method, but it didn't work. I don't have crystals as they are relatively expensive and I am a poor student. What crystals would you reccomend for this sort of thing? And I'm allergic to incense, so I haven't used that. Imagine if I became allergic to my deck, as well as scared by it! :laugh:
Do other people feel it too?
Cos if they do it is probably the deck. If they don't it is probably your reaction to the deck. (if you see what I mean)
Haven't tested that one yet. I'm going to today. I think it might just be my reaction to the deck, but I'll know more after I accost a few of my friends and make them handle my decks and tell me which feels "bad" or "wrong." We'll see. If it is affecting others, I don't want to give it to other people, unelss they were willing to put the time into cleansing it, which I think can be done, but I don't think I'm the person to do it.
Other people have had similar experiences with the Thoth. Emily has one deck that gives her the creeps and one that doesn't. Both Thoths!
You usually hear about it with the 'green' one, but yours is small, and they were never green. (I don't think)
Interesting! I'm not surprised that it's the Thoth that is my "creepy" deck. A little sad, though, as it used to be my favorite deck, and now I can't even bear to hold it.
Suggestion. Sell it on ebay as a 'haunted' deck. Tell (or invent) a few minor creepy things that have happened, and which you attribute to the deck, mention Crowley's reputation, gloss over the goat, and watch the bids roll in!
Good suggestion! :laugh:
And, to answer your other question, my favorite time period is New Kingdom Egypt, which is why I went there, for studying. Now, though, I'm studying osteoarchaeology for my masters. In other words, I spend a large part of my day with people who've been dead for several centuries. I'm probably going to go on to the PhD level, but I haven't decided in what yet, Egyptology or bones. Hmmm...luckilly, I don't have to decide yet.
Yay for another archaeology person! :D
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| bleuivy |
07 May 2005 |
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What IS it with Thoth and burning? In a totally different forum that really has nothing to do with tarot, I was talking about reading tarot and a few of the other members chimed in with their varied experiences with tarot and one member said she had once owned a Thoth deck but burned it because she was getting really awful experiences surrounding the deck. Has never happened with her with any other deck.
Interesting! I know a few of my non-tarot-reading friends who were afraid of the Thoth. I think one of them was put off tarot forever after a reading I did for her with it. Oh well.
I've looked at the Thoth deck. I like the pictures. I haven't purchased one because I'm still a newbie tarot reader and I'm getting used to one style of deck before branching out to others, but I do intend to become familiar with Thoth one day. What is UP with that deck? I've heard it's "voice" can be harsh and bullying, no nonsense. But that can't be all there is?
Curious.
~Mercy
It's a good deck, I think. It was great for me as a beginner because it was the deck I was drawn to, and as we were discussing in a different thread, the best deck for a beginner is the one you're drawn to. That's what makes me so sad about my reaction to it now. I can't even really stand clone decks at the moment! If you decide to take up the Thoth, good luck. It is a great deck, and yes, I found it could be somewhat harsh, but it is also a very honest deck IMO.
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| Emily |
07 May 2005 |
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Hi Bleuivy,
Just noticed this thread :) - I do have a large green Thoth, bought second hand that I don't know the history of, and I did get the same feelings as you - the urge to wipe my hands after handling the deck, hairs rising on the back of my neck, sick nervous feeling, a feeling of dread - All of this from pieces of cardboard lol.
I used many methods of cleansing my deck - sunlight, moonlight, crystals, salt - nothing worked. Then I found one thing that did work, shuffling the deck - mind over matter - I grounded myself before taking this it out of the box, forced myself to shuffle and it did work.
I'm still not comfortable using the deck but most of the feelings have gone unless I dwell on them, it does still have an aura surrounding it but I keep the deck because I've never had anything give me feelings like this before, I'm usually level-headed so this came as a bit of a shock.
I bought 3 other Thoths after that of varying sizes and do love the artwork.
I think in your situation maybe you could ignore the feelings and just keep trying to use the deck, which was a favourite deck so the feelings might just go, or put it way for a while. If you don't want to hang on to it and can't trade it then try to sell, second-hand bookshops will take decks and the Thoth is a well known deck.
Hope this helps :)
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| bleuivy |
07 May 2005 |
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Good suggestions Emily. I was thinking of cutting the borders off of the cards and shuffling them like mad. The problem is to do that I'd have to hold them, and you described the feeling I get from the deck perfectly. It came on so gradually that I didn't even notice it at first.
I'll think about giving it to a used bookstore. But, I don't want anyone to have the same reaction as you when you bought your deck. I wouldn't want to foist the problem on anyone else.
I'm sort of glad (in a morbid sort of way) that others have had the same reaction to the deck as me. I was beginning to think I was crazy.
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| Emily |
07 May 2005 |
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Hi Bleuivy,
I laughed when I read your post about not wanting to foist it off onto some one else lol - because when I wrote the post earlier I was thinking that I wouldn't be buying another used Thoth from a second-hand bookshop :P
But nope you're not going crazy - When I read your post all the feelings came back, right down to the jittery stomach, and I've had to have my green Thoth out to make sure I can still handle it. I can but the feelings are still there but not as bad.
Maybe if you did cut the borders off it might make a difference. At least you don't have to put up with a sickly green colour looking back at you. :)
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| Lillie |
07 May 2005 |
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Oh Bleuivy,
You are so lucky having been to egypt! I am sorry you had an ordeal there, but it must have been wonderful seeing all the stuff, and all the places which I have only seen in books!
And so lucky to have been able to study it!
I could only study different british periods, I didn't have the choice to do egyptology, or I would have!
And I would have chosen either the pre dynastic era up to the pyramid age, or the new kingdom, specifically the armarna period.
I have had a long and abiding interest in Egypt, and that was why I did archaeology, although I never got the chance to study egypt itself. But getting drunk in a neolithic chambered tomb was a nice alternative!
Anyhow, back to the tarot!
Cleansing your deck.
I do not use crystals too much, but I believe that quartz can be used to absorb bad vibrations.
Get a quartz crystal and put it with the cards. Then, when it feels right that you should, wash the crystal in running water. Aspring is best, but to be honest a tap wwill do, or even pouring from a bottle of spring water. This washes all thenegativity off the crystal and down thedrain where it just gets absorbed into the fabric of the earth and 'rots down' and cleaned away by the earth itself.
it is the sort of spiritual equivalent to emptying a chamber pot on to the soil. very soon the earth and all the bugs and creatures and bacteria come along to do theirt thing and clean it all up in a natural way.
Then put the crystal back with the cards till they seem clean.
There are many other ways of cleaning crystals, and many other crystals you could use, but that is one way.
Quartz crystals are cheap, but I have a few small one knocking around, and if you want one I could send you one if you want.
They are not much, just little ones with points on one end. You are welcome to one if you want.
It is possible that the cards are so badly polluted they can never be cleaned, or that your antipathy to them is so strong that it will never be reversed.
Some might put this down to Crowley himself. These cards were the final product of a whole life lived with magic and the occult, some of which was most certainly black!
However, I am not sure wether I believe that the designer of cards can continuse to influence so many decks (cos if he influences one, why not them all?) so long after hisdeath.
But, as they say, 'there are more things in heaven and earth, Lillie, than are dreamed of in your most lunatic ramblings...'
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| caridwen |
08 May 2005 |
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I can't buy decks where I live and can't order stuff over the internet. If you have any unwanted decks rather than burning them, please pm me:)
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| bleuivy |
08 May 2005 |
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Hi, Lillie. Yay! Another Egyptophile! :D The Amarna Period is also my favorite Egyptian period. I just think it's fascinating. I did manage to go to Amarna while I was in Egypt, and I'd be happy to send you some photos (granted, I didn't get to take many as I was only there for 45 mins). PM me if you're interested.
Thank you for your wonderful advice on the crystals and cleansing the cards. I have some quartz at home which I had mostly for decoration. I'm thinking of having my parents send it to me.
On the other hand, last night I designed an "experiment" to test if it was just my reaction to the cards, or a more universal thing. I'm a scientist (granted an archaeological one) so designing experiments to test hypotheses is what I do. :laugh:
I laid out 4 decks, the LS Secret, the Gilded, the Universal Waite, and the Thoth, and had my boyfriend shuffle each a few times. I then asked him if he got any bad reactions from any of the decks. He immediately discounted the Secret and the Gilded, saying they felt "comfortable." Not surprising since they are my two favorite decks, and I just love them to death. He kept bouncing back and forth about the Thoth and UW, though, and said that they both made him uneasy, and that they "felt" wrong, but the UW more so because of the artwork, which he didn't like. I'm not surprised the UW got that reaction, as it's seen me through some tough times, but I still love it and read with it often.
So I guess my reaction to the Thoth 's kind of personal to me, but would probably not be as noticable to someone else, and might be easilly cleansed. I'm still not sure I would want to put that sort of time into doing it at this stage. It used to be my favorite deck, but at the same time, I'd rather see the deck with someone who'd truly appreciate it, rather than have it stick with me and my aversion to it.
Caridwen, your offer is a good one, and a reminder that some people are not as fortunate as I am with the easy ability to order new decks from the internet. Now that my boyfriend didn't run screaming into the night from picking up my Thoth, I'm much more willing to see it go to someone else. I just didn't want it to go somewhere where it would bring the bad feelings with it.
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| Lillie |
08 May 2005 |
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Oh yes, Armarna!
Isn't it great!
I think it was always the mystery of it. What really happened, why it happened and what happened at the end.
Did they kill him? did he get away, what?
Have you ever read Oedipus and Akhenaten, by Velikovsky?
Admittedly, he wrote some very strange books, but never the less he was an extremely erudite man, who is all too often dismissed with the lunatics and liars like Von Daniken.
Caridwen.
I understand what you are saying, and it does make sense.
I have only ever destroyed the two decks I mentioned. One for very deep and personal reasons, and the other because in my opinion no one would have wanted it. (though I do realise that that is not true, but it was how I thought of it at the time). Many other unwanted decks have been given away.
I do not generally destroy these things willy nilly, and if I ever get the urge to do so again I will remember your words.
But why can you not buy decks where you are? You are in the UK, and I live in what is really a very far flung and obscure corner of it. Yet I can still buy decks in a town not too far away.
Also I do not have a bank account or any way to do pay pal, but I still buy of the internet and off ebay.
I usually send postal orders, just like I did before the internet ever existed.
Most UK sellers on Ebay will accept that, some prefer it!
Also the same thing can usually be arranged with internet shops. Amazon will (and has) accepted postal orders from me. They are fine about it.
In fact, if I do order the HP book off them that is how I will be doing it.
It tends to cost a little more, cos I have to buy the postal orders, but it is not much, and it is worth it not to have the hassle of a bank account.
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| magpie9 |
08 May 2005 |
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I'm not sure I would want the deck cleansed, as then where would all that negative energy go?
If you clense the deck by burying it in earth, it will be cleansed and the negitive energy will be converted to positive. It's a very old way of "koshering" dishes that have been contaminated under Jewish law. And it works on anything. I would suggest useng sand if you can get it, since it lacks moisture and will not ruin the cards. It dosn't really have to be done outdoors, you can use a big flowerpot indoors, but you should scatter the earth afterwards.
Just bury them, and leave them for a period of time you considr significant (3 or 7 or thier multiples are good) Afterwards, you will probably want to leave them in sunlight for a few days , to re-charge them.
Hope this helps. It's hard when a beloved deck gets nasty. I think this is the root of why some people won't let others handle thier decks at all.
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| bleuivy |
08 May 2005 |
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Magpie - Thanks for the wonderful reccomendation for cleansing my deck. I can't believe a few days ago I was ready to give up on the deck and light the matches. I'm ready to try a few more things before I proclaim this deck a lost cause. The soil where I live is very wet, so I'll probably take some and bury the deck in a flowerpot in my room. Also, I think spreading the Earth around after I've used the deck would be a very cleansing experience.
I'm still looking into the crystals as well. There's a new-age-ish shop near where I live, and they might have some well-priced quartz that I can give a try.
Lillie - I've never heard of the book before, but just from the title I can tell it sounds very interesting. I'll look it up when next I'm in a bookshop (always a dangerous prospect for me :laugh:. )
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| caridwen |
08 May 2005 |
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Caridwen.
Hi:)
I understand what you are saying, and it does make sense.
Good:)
I have only ever destroyed the two decks I mentioned. One for very deep and personal reasons, and the other because in my opinion no one would have wanted it. (though I do realise that that is not true, but it was how I thought of it at the time). Many other unwanted decks have been given away.
I do not generally destroy these things willy nilly, and if I ever get the urge to do so again I will remember your words.
I can totally understand a 'cleansing' thing going on - and yes, your opinion may have been wrong for someone not wanting it. But you are free to do whatever you like with your property including, give stuff away. And goody, I'm glad you will remember my words:)
But why can you not buy decks where you are? You are in the UK, and I live in what is really a very far flung and obscure corner of it. Yet I can still buy decks in a town not too far away.
My location thing is where I come from. I am a British citizen but don't live there at the moment, where I live is in my Profile.
Also I do not have a bank account or any way to do pay pal, but I still buy of the internet and off ebay.
I usually send postal orders, just like I did before the internet ever existed.
Most UK sellers on Ebay will accept that, some prefer it!
Also the same thing can usually be arranged with internet shops. Amazon will (and has) accepted postal orders from me. They are fine about it.
In fact, if I do order the HP book off them that is how I will be doing it.
Thanks for alerting me to the various ways of paying for stuff but it's still no use. I can't get a visa here and if I did, it's only national. I can't do paypal or get Amazon to accept orders from me as I have no international credit card and a visa does not allow me to withdraw foreign currency. This country, as far as I am aware, does not sell decks.:)
Caridwen, your offer is a good one, and a reminder that some people are not as fortunate as I am with the easy ability to order new decks from the internet. Now that my boyfriend didn't run screaming into the night from picking up my Thoth, I'm much more willing to see it go to someone else. I just didn't want it to go somewhere where it would bring the bad feelings with it.
Not only can't some people order from the internet, they can't afford to. Decks can be expensive as can postage, some people have other commitments.
I don't believe in inanimate objects having their own feelings, you are feeling what you have projected onto and into the deck. As far as I am concerned, it's a tarot deck and I feel no fear or fear no bad vibes:D
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| Valkyriesong |
09 May 2005 |
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, I have no experience into burning anything.
Oh its easy ... here's a simple ritual
All you need is a designated fire pit, wood,starter fluid and ale
Take your desginated tarot deck to your designated fire pit
Take your pre gathered wood and place the tarot deck upon the the pile.
Pour some pre designated starter fuel or upon the pile THEN Invoke the presence of energies to channel the burning of your tarot ... this can be done by phoning your local fraternity brothers and saying the words "FREE BEER"
Join your assembly in the ritual burning by feasting on the ale and maybe order a pizza or two and as you all stand around the fire pit
Flick your match... and Oiala .. tarot ala flame.
All join together to chant and sing for the burning of your tarot deck Here's a simple encantation I wrote for you to help.
"The cards .. the cards the cards are on fire
the cards... the cards ... the cards are on FIRE
We don't need no tarot let the Mother F****ers burn
the cards .. the cards ... the cards are on FIRE"
Then you can also continue this ritual with throwing a Lynard Skynard CD in the stereo, sending someone out for another beer run and do some other ritual burnings like : That old sofa in the garage, maybe a broken box spring, the ex's photo album or even Barny the purple dinosaur , make it a cleansing night! You can even throw some T bones or burgurs on the old pit and make it a feast.
By morning you will have forgotten you ever owned that tarot deck or where it went !!!!
Ok I had my fun.
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This part DO Read into
On a SERIOUS note tho.. you should try cleansing the deck first like everyone else says to. Pack it in sea salt over night and the next day smudge it with sage or incense - OUTSIDE. Tarot cards do absorb other people's energy so even if someone who handled it is what I call a "Negative Nancy", at the factory or at the store ... it can be sucked into your cards. If you still don't like the way your cards feel or the way they look, that deck just may not be for you.
To break them in just do the cleansing and shuffle em ... run em through the incnese again and just shuffle them. When you are watching TV just work at shuffling and saying to yourself "these cards are MINE" and just do it that way.
Also though ...
The artist who designs the cards can also have an impact on them... bcause of the energy the artist puts into his or her productions. Artwork is like someone's signature because its connected to the artist. I'd cleanse them and give them away but if you wrap them in white cloth and burn them maybe make them a little funeral pyre it would be symbolic like severing the relationship. Then go buy a new deck but maybe go to a source where you can actually touch the deck or at least the box its in if not study the artwork and see if you can connect with it. Thats why i like this site so much it gives you a sample of what to expect.
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| Lillie |
09 May 2005 |
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Sorry, Caridwen.
I rhought you lived in the UK.
I have no idea about getting decks where you are!
I have now looked at your profile. A writer! How wonderful.:)
Edit.
Did I come across as a bit patronising? Telling you how to do really obvious things?
It wasn't intended like that. And it's just that a lot of these places do not make it obvious that they will accept 'other' payment methods than paypal, credit card etc.
For a long time I didn't think I could buy off the net, until I found out.
It was cos I thought you were in the UK,
Sorry.
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| Junia |
24 May 2005 |
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Threw away a RW because I couldn't sleep with it in the house. Also couldn't sleep with the Golden Tarot around. I gave that one away.
As for burning, Mormons burn their underwear for the same reason one poster's mother buried sacred objects--so that they would not be defiled by someone who doesn't hold them sacred. Well except for the late Sonja Johnson who burned her temple garments in front of the Salt Lake Temple. The whole thing caused quite a stink--and I don't think the smell of burning had anything to do with it.
I did get creeped out about my Connolly for awhile. I just set it aside and ignored it until it felt right again. Sometimes those archetypal images stir things in our heads . . . something waiting or trying to surface from the unconcious. Had any strange dreams right after the feelings started? I heard one method of telling yourself that you wanted to understand what was bothering you before you went to sleep and then keeping a pad and pencil by your bed to write down the revelations from your dreams immediately upon awakening. It may take several tries, but I have found it effective. The answer or key is in your own mind--I am sure.
Best wishes! Most enlightening thread.
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The Burn Baby Burn thread was originally posted on 27 Sep 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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