Something Irking Me About Tarot Consultants...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Sep 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Frequency	13 Sep 2004
As members here already know... I follow the left hand path. Something I've been thinking about is doing tarot professionaly. Being someone that was in a hospital and knows people with drug problems etc I feel that I almost have a responsibility to help them because I'm not there anymore... I'm not sure how to properly explain this but I know TOO MANY (!) people that have gone on medication like my own family who really do not get the help they need and deserve. We've been totaly blinded by industries like the pharmaceuticals etc that we truly have no idea what we're doing most of the time. I've learned from personal experience that their so called "expertise" truly doesn't prove anything. Drug COMPANIES (!) make drugs, and they SELL them. They also seem to SELL mental illneses etc... what a large surprise that conclusion is... I have Asperger's Syndrome. I was placed on anti-depressants. My father was placed on them. My mother was placed on them. My sister wasn't placed on them. I'll tell you why... My sister wasn't home (!). My father had business troubles and my mother had problems dealing with my father. Fine. Now my mother has business problems and my father has no problems. My father is feeling better. He even got himself a motorcycle and he's actualy trying to support me. That's something my mother has NEVER done. My father never did it either but my father had a business. My mother often tells me she tries but when I ask her to listen to what I have to say she would never hear me out... So then I get onto the path of Satanism. Something is bothering me about that thread and I can't reply so I'll make a short comment here: Many of you don't seem to know what "goth" culture is. It's a style of music that really got an oomph kicked in it in the 90s which you don't see on the radio. Traditionaly goth culture has mixed with heavy metal since there's lots of great goth metal bands... Theater of Tragedy and bands like Type O Negative (haha, brilliant) come to my mind... I think the source of that word is something people should look at. "Goth" comes from "gothic". If you do not look gothic, YOU ARE NOT GOTHic. That's essentialy what that boils down to. Gothic: # Of or relating to the Middle Ages; medieval. # 1. Of or relating to an architectural style prevalent in western Europe from the 12th through the 15th century and characterized by pointed arches, rib vaulting, and a developing emphasis on verticality and the impression of height. 2. Of or relating to an architectural style derived from medieval Gothic. more importantly... Of or relating to a style of fiction that emphasizes the grotesque, mysterious, and desolate. So in a nutshell... The people that are attracted to this lifestyle are often unhappy people. They're people who cannot relate to their peers because they listen to imo much better music and have a much wider scope on the world around them. Something most people do not seem to understand about the whole goth thing is that you don't dress it. You either relate to that darkness out of life experiences or you just don't. More on that... You don't have to be depressed and angry to relate to this style... That's something most people fail to realize... Gothic culture is supposed to be something going back to a more romantic and more stylized era. It's a longing for something in the past. Imho you're really not doing that if you shop at the mall. I know some really intelligent people that are into this sort of thing and some of their clothes are a couple hundred years old. If they're not, they're designed to look that way. These are not clothes you buy AT THE MALL. In the heavy metal community... we call that MALLcore for a reason. You're not supposed to shop at the mall because there's really not much there. Mall shoppers tend to be really braindead since they're willing to spend $20 on a black shirt with nothing on it... Or a white shirt with Nike written on it for about $40. You see my point now? I think that's what disgusts goths the most... I can go to a mall and see NOTHING that I like there. There's just truly nothing of value inside. You walk around a nice designer clothing outlet and there's an immediate difference but it's too expensive and their ungoth parents can't afford it. I think the bottom line is that the people who are attracted to heavy metal, and goth culture, are simply more aware. If they're willing to spend that extra effort and find something they enjoy that their friends didn't tell them about I'd say that's pretty solid evidence that they're far more perceptive than others. Which brings me to the whole discussion I'd like to get into here... Young people pick up tarot and they really do not understand what it is they're doing. In the tarot community there are no explanations you just do it... but I think it's starting to get rediculous. Tarot is getting lots of attention now because the kids that got into it in the 80s and 90s have jobs and families now. I was born in '85 and I'm 19 now. I think people that come here sometimes forget that tarot is supposed to be something universal. It's not limited to Wicca or Paganism even. Decks like the Osho Zen tarot demonstrate that quite clearly. It actualy upsets me a lot that Satanism has been around for so long now (over 30yrs) and people STILL do not get it yet. I think that's pretty astounding. Anton LaVey always said he always wanted to get his word in edgewise, but nobody ever wanted to hear what the man had to say... They listened to his detractors etc instead of listening to the man himself... He started a CABAL (fun word), so he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. The Church of Satan raised their membership price again for the first time in a LONG time. People forget that organization tries to keep it down but our economy changes and they just can't keep it down forever. Personaly I can't afford it right now, but they NEVER solicited membership. You can go to the bookstore and buy the little devil for $11CDN and you're into it right away. They don't go around asking you to join. That's why I never understood the point of the Temple of Set... Why leave because Anton wanted to kick you guys out? Am I mistaken... isn't that what actualy happened? He started getting lots of weird people into it and he decided he had enough and stomped his foot down... The fact the Temple of Set has very different beliefs than the Church of Satan is proof of that... I also do not like the fact they call themselves Satanists... it's just not the same religion. Do your research... They're Setians... Essentialy. They believe in Set as an actual entity. That's never been what Satanism is all about. Satanism is quite vehemently against that. So anyway... I'm disgruntled because everytime I do tarot for people they expect me to tell their fortune and that's just not what I do. I'm a Satanist and it is spiritual but if you read the book you'd begin to see WHY it's so interesting... It gives you all the spirituality you need but it's designed in such a way that you make it yourself. I've even heard of Hindu/Satanists and members of the Vampire Temple getting into it and vice versa. * I have to ask... is there even a market for general tarot consultation or would I truly have to dress 'like one' to make any money at it? I'd like to start the business right now but I'm concerned about all these things... To summarize the whole thing... I know lots of people my age are getting into tarot and are enjoying it but they get spiritual about it... Which is fine it's their deck... but then they come up to me and tell me I'm not supposed to do this, I'm not supposed to do that... Where do people get this BS from? How can I distance my customers from it? How can I market myself in such a way that I attract the customers that I want without *gasp it's coming* the fluff? I want to do cold, hard, proffesional readings. Not the latest news from the man upstairs, not the news from the man downstairs, etc... because I am vehemently against the notion that 'it' cares. I'm not going to offend anyone here but I think I speak for all of us when I say it gets frustrating and depressing.

jmd	13 Sep 2004
Your posts contains many different points all joined together, which of course then makes it more difficult to address. Firstly, I suspect that many of us, irrespective of our particular spiritual views, prefer to shop and purchase items (whether they be clothing or other) which we personally like (whether these be furs and high heels or black T-shirts with advertising splashed across each side). Where these are available will probably attract customers to their location - and if locations are not particularly liked, such as shopping centres ('malls' are presume are these), then shops are likely to be setup somewhere else. Here, (in the food sector) bio-dynamic and organic foodshops are more likely to be located in non-major shopping centres, as an example. Personally I too find major shopping centres depleting and not to my taste. On the subject of satanism, and irrespective as to what LaVey may have written, the term and name precedes his writing about it. As a consequence, many take these other and broader meanings more seriously and importantly than his own version - and take it, by the way, to name and refer to a particular spiritual being which seeks to negatively interfere in normal human spiritual development. As such, of course many will not 'bother' to read his views, or, if read, will view his being mislead in his opinion. With regards to your specific usage of the cards, I remain unsure as to what you do with them - and either I missed it in your post, or it is there mentioned in a way too oblique for my distant way to recognise it. But importantly, let me specifically comment on one short point you make: that you 'want to do cold, hard, professional readings'. When doing readings, one of the important aspects, I would suggest, is to be empathetic to the state and needs of the other. This requires not coldness, but warmth. It does not mean that important issues are not addressed, but rather that they are addressed and discussed in ways appropriate for the state of the other. Some may require a more indirect approach than the bluntness used for others - but I would characterise neither of these as 'hard' - the 'hardness' is a reflection perhaps more of the reader, not the reading. A softness, a gentleness, living within the reader (not a 'put-on' voice for the occasion) allows also for, at times, greater sensitivity to the needs of the other. So here, in a nutshell, I would consider that warm and gentle readings, whilst still addressing sensitive and at times difficult issues, may perhaps lead to greater caring in readings.

Kath	13 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Frequency I have to ask... is there even a market for general tarot consultation or would I truly have to dress 'like one' to make any money at it? How do you think tarot consultants dress? If you’re thinking ‘gypsy’ style, then I’d say ‘no’. I’ve seen consultants dressed from the Madame Zenda get up, right down to jeans and t-shirt. Quote: I'd like to start the business right now but I'm concerned about all these things... To summarize the whole thing... I know lots of people my age are getting into tarot and are enjoying it but they get spiritual about it... Which is fine it's their deck... but then they come up to me and tell me I'm not supposed to do this, I'm not supposed to do that... Where do people get this BS from? Where do they get the BS? Everywhere! So many books state that you MUST do this, or MUST do that or dire consequences will follow. Even experienced readers have told me that I MUST wrap my deck in black silk, or give me ‘the look’ when I said I read for myself. Your friends will eventually realise that there is so much conflicting information regarding what you 'must' do, that they will see it’s up to each individual to do what they feel comfortable with. Quote: How can I distance my customers from it? How can I market myself in such a way that I attract the customers that I want without *gasp it's coming* the fluff? Peoples’ perceptions of tarot vary greatly. Unfortunately most of them think it’s fortune telling and fluffy. It will take time for you to market yourself as a serious reader who offers insight into peoples lives, as opposed to a fortune teller. Tell people you don’t do fortunes, but if they want insight into problems, if they want to use tarot to help see patterns in their life, and use it to get past obstacles and learn to break cycles, then you’re their reader! You will always get the ‘fluffy’ clients. You can explain your style of reading for them, and let them decide if that’s what they want. Quote: I want to do cold, hard, proffesional readings. Not the latest news from the man upstairs, not the news from the man downstairs, etc... because I am vehemently against the notion that 'it' cares. I'm not going to offend anyone here but I think I speak for all of us when I say it gets frustrating and depressing. You may be against the notion that [insert deity here] cares, but your clients may not be. Your clients may hold their faith dear and believe that their deity cares, and will offer guidance via the tarot. If you want to be a successful reader, you will have to be sensitive to your clients’ needs. If you truly cannot reconcile your opposition to a deity caring with your clients belief that s/he does, then it’s probably best to decline to read for them. Cold, hard professional readings can be achieved, even if your client believes that their deity is ‘speaking’ to them via you and your cards. I wish you luck with it all. Reading professionally can be very rewarding, but at times, I’m sure it can be very frustrating too.

HudsonGray	13 Sep 2004
The Midwest Goths have gotten away from the music side of things & mostly do parties with the full dress-up. In a lot of ways I think Goth has gone away from what was considered a 'fad' and turned mainstream, further confusing the issue. Two new primarily Goth stores have opened for business in small towns near me, which would have been unheard of even 5 years ago. I'm not sure if that means there'll be the sudden influx of wannabees in the world now, drawn from high school & college kids dissatisfied with life in general, or what, but once something goes mainstream, the 'pure' version generally melts away & only the hard core people in the movement are left. Dress the part for readings if you want to, but I wouldn't overdress. The Bastille Days celebration here had 12 readers, all in street clothes except for one who dressed like an overdone gypsy (she looked ridiculous!). The customers thought she was over the top too, all the other readers did better turnover with the clientelle that walked up. It might work at the Renaisance festivals where everyone is in costume, but the Spirit Fairs & other venues here all have the readers in regular street clothing.

Umbrae	13 Sep 2004
You need to move to Seattle. in fact, go to this site, and read "Robert's Rant." And Frequency...follow your path...

Ace	13 Sep 2004
There is a lot in this note, Frequency, that I can't address, not being very spiritually aware. But I can comment on reading for people. The tarot reflects the truth as it IS RIGHT NOW. If people don't like what is, the cards can help them see what assumptions they make that are wrong and maybe start them on a better path. You Quote: Originally posted by Frequency want to do cold, hard, proffesional readings. Not the latest news from the man upstairs, not the news from the man downstairs, etc... because I am vehemently against the notion that 'it' cares. and I agree and I too want to do cold, hard, professional readings. So when I read, I try very hard not to judge people on the information the cards give me. When I see something bad (a man asked me at a party last Christmas season about his unborn child--who probably wasn't going to live to be born.) I tell them about it. But I think it can be said in a way that is gentle and makes it possible to discuss it. To say to this guy, "your child is dying, there is nothing you can do about it, now get lost." is lacking in compassion-the ability to realize that he is in pain and facing a difficult time. And I would miss out on an opportunity to give him extra information that might help him or the child. But I would NOT, nor did I tell him, his kid is fine, everything will be all right. Instead, I started slow, asking if he know that things were not well for this child, he did. We then tried to see what was coming, what he could do or expect, and finally I asked the cards what I could tell him that was comforting or helpful. They told me to tell him to tell his wife that it wasn't anything she had done to cause this situation. (this was actually going on, the doctors had been torturing her with questions about what she might have done earlier in her pregnancy.) If I had been brutally honest as I describe earlier, how could he have listened to what I had to say? So, Frequency, when you read, slow down. Let go of your own opinions, they don't matter here. You don't want people to put down Goths or Santanists, don't you think "mundanes" and preppies deserve the same consideration? Look only at the truth as the cards say it. Speak carefully, so what you say can get heard--that is your responsibility to make sure the querent understands what you are saying. Truth I have heard it said, is a sword that points as well as cuts. Point their way, Frequency, don't cut. As for dress, when I first started doing this I worked as a librarian. I was asked (after a psychic fair) one day, do I dress in a scarf and earrings, etc? This was at a friend's house, at a post-SCA meeting gathering. No, I said, I dress like this (I was still in the skirt and blouse I had worn that day to the fair.) My friend didn't get it, "like how?" "Like this," I insisted. Another friend ,and a fellow librarian, walked in. "she means she dresses like a librarian." That cleared things up fine. As you well know, people respond to us based on how we dress, make up, etc. It isn't "fair" or "nice" but it is sound human psychology. I dressed like a professional woman to gain respectability and to make people think I knew what I was doing. (sitting at a psychic fair is like a beauty contest: people pick you by appearance, or what you put on your flyer. Unless they have a recommendation, but I was new then). Now, ironically, I do dress as "Madame Zandra" in a gypsy fortuneteller outfit designed and made for me by a SCA friend. I do it to attract party business, but for private readings, I leave it in the closet. I am still a real reader, and even at parties I give real readings as best I can. But I never consciously "fake" a reading. People sometimes ask to give me information to feed back to the guest of honor or a particular friend, and I refuse to take it. It is lame to start with, secondly it is not honest. I hold to my integrity. I dislike Astrology, and don't believe in it (let's not go into it here) but if I wanted more business, doing Astrology would get it. What do I do? I don't do Astrology! I hope I helped you see the way some, Frequency. you are right in wanting to give solid, true readings. And you may have to educate people in what you have to offer before you will get business. I do very few private readings. Partly, because I won't promise results or the answer they want... only the truth that is there. But those that are read, say it worked for them, so I guess I am good, but how often do we really need a reading, if it shows the way the first time? So, stand your ground, but take the chip off your sholder first. Before I end this, I went to the kitchen to get a comic strip I have posted up on the frig. I worked the psychic fair with two ladies I liked a lot. One was a motherly woman who was a hereditary witch who followed a Gardenerian path and told me once that "Uncle Alastair [crowley]" was really a very nice man. (it may have been her MOM who knew Crowley, but you see where I am going with this.) BTW: she used the Hansen Roberts deck. The other was a girl who dressed in a way that i would classify as "Punk". She was creative and always finding new oracles or twisting old ones, like making Crayola crayons into a tarot deck, or practicing African bone oracles. (she made very cool Bone amulets for a while-I still have mine!) SHE used the Crowley Thoth deck. Anyway, someone gave me this cartoon showing a street corner. On one side of the corner a "witchy looking" woman sits with a crystal ball on her table. Around the corner sits a Skinny Punk-looking person also with a crystal ball on her table. the "witch" has a sign: "All of life's questions answered." So does the "punk": All of life's answers questioned." You want to be the second person, well, so do I-but the only thing punk about me is my hair is ofter very short! But remember the truth is a sword that points, don't always slash and burn!

Shade	15 Sep 2004
Well my Marketing 101 answer would be to find out what your target market wants and then forumlate a strategy to meet that. You expressed an interest in a type of clientele that feels a certain way about spirituality and tarot. You should find out what it is they're after; guessing and making assumptions about what people expect will be a lot more challenging and time consuming. No product or service is going to be used by everyone out there so your service (your readings) should be styled to fit what your ideal clients want and you shouldn't worry about the others. One method might be to ask people you've given readings to what it was they liked best or helped them the most. You also should find out about local laws about charging people. This usually either means getting a business license or becoming clergy. This could be a two birds one stone kind of thing for you since you mentioned a desire to officially join the church of Satan. I thought the book Professional Tarot had a lot f helpful info about starting up the business. There's a chapter which outlines different tarot styles people have: the teacher, the healer, the advisor, the mystic, and the alchemist. Now I did have a brief spell where I was very close to the goth scene for a while although it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. During that period of time I dressed the part with dark clothing, vinyl, silver jewelry, and inch long nails. I naturally got some stares and comments from people but I didn't let it get to me and neither did my goth friends. It's unfair that people judge one another by something like their clothing the way people judge you for looking goth or the way you judge people who spend too much money for clothing because of its brand but that's how it works right now. I can relate to frustrations with people misunderstanding your spirituality. Being Wiccan I have encounters with people who think I'm either insane, depraved, or both. But I have to remember that I also make judgements about people based on their religion. Baptists for example... I have very strong (angry) feelings about Baptists. But about two years ago I dated a Baptist and it turns out, by and large, he was a very nice guy. And there were days that I thought he was nuts but I had to remind myself I was leaving bread and honey in the trees for nature spirits, casting spells with candles and incense and all manner of other pagan activities that strike people as being the most outlandih quackery. And most folks are actually pretty supportive. There are even internal rifts within satanism which will be a challenge for you. When the Temple of Set broke free from the Church of Satan because they felt that Anton had lost the faith the left hand path got a whole lot wider. There are those within the Temple of Set who consider the Church of Satan to be a hedonistic exercise in ego worship. Lots of fingers pointing all around and almost as fighting internaly as there is externally (though I doubt they have nearly the number of squabbles wicca is experiencing as it grows). http://xeper.org/ has more info on that split.

closrapexa	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Frequency Which brings me to the whole discussion I'd like to get into here... Young people pick up tarot and they really do not understand what it is they're doing. In the tarot community there are no explanations you just do it... but I think it's starting to get rediculous. Tarot is getting lots of attention now because the kids that got into it in the 80s and 90s have jobs and families now. I was born in '85 and I'm 19 now. I think people that come here sometimes forget that tarot is supposed to be something universal. It's not limited to Wicca or Paganism even. Decks like the Osho Zen tarot demonstrate that quite clearly. It actualy upsets me a lot that Satanism has been around for so long now (over 30yrs) and people STILL do not get it yet. I think that's pretty astounding. Anton LaVey always said he always wanted to get his word in edgewise, but nobody ever wanted to hear what the man had to say... They listened to his detractors etc instead of listening to the man himself... True, I doubt anyone who picks up a deck for the first time knows what they are doing. Sadly, for many people Tarot has become something akin to witchcraft (no offence) or even worse, a sham, a farce. On the other hand, too much reverence can also be detrimental. If I "knew what I was doing" the first time I laid eyes on a deck, I wouldn't be practicing now. And I also need a certain clarification. You say Satanism has been aroun for a long time? Again, not wishing to trash anyone's belief, 30 years (as you say) isn't that long a time. Quote: Originally posted by Frequency So anyway... I'm disgruntled because everytime I do tarot for people they expect me to tell their fortune and that's just not what I do. Don't worry. You'll find your way sooner or later and people will come to you for th kind of readings that you do. * Quote: Originally posted by Frequency I want to do cold, hard, proffesional readings. Not the latest news from the man upstairs, not the news from the man downstairs, etc... because I am vehemently against the notion that 'it' cares. I'm not going to offend anyone here but I think I speak for all of us when I say it gets frustrating and depressing. I doubt there are such things, and if somebody told me how to do cold, hard proffessional readings I would stop reading right then and there. Its all about exchanging energy and channelling it through you from the other person. Why fight it? Why decide its wrong?

Macavity	15 Sep 2004
I don't think it's necessarily about "Cold and Hard" - perhaps you just want to seperate Tarot reading from the religious (or spiritual) aspects? Why not just be (shock horror) an atheist reader? Base it all on the "psychological" approach as many do. I'm sure some would disagree with me, but by faith (or lack of it) has little to do with Tarot - Or rather I feel *I* would be presumptuous to state I had "hotline to god" too. But then I hedge my bets, by claiming to be agnostic... My personal question about Tarot and spirituality is just that, if the whole moral and religious needs of humanity can be summed up in 78 images, why the heck did ol' mainstream religion spend all those years writing enormous religious books? I suspect I know the answer to that one (don't tell me here!) but suspect it is still a matter of personal faith... ;) But, in the hope that I will not offend anyone (It's opinion and mostly tongue in cheek) I think I can offer a clue to how long the Devil has been around... http://guns-n-roses.lyrics-songs.com/lyrics/17138/ Please allow me to introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste I've been around for a long, long year <<---- Stole many a man's soul and faith N.B. Some might claim even before the time of Guns 'n' Roses... way back to The Rolling Stones... and, let's face it, you don't get MUCH older than that! :D

ninja_vixen	15 Sep 2004
- If I "knew what I was doing" the first time I laid eyes on a deck, I wouldn't be practicing now. - Hi Closrapexa, this has made me very curious. What do you mean exactly. Thanks

closrapexa	16 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ninja_vixen - If I "knew what I was doing" the first time I laid eyes on a deck, I wouldn't be practicing now. - Hi Closrapexa, this has made me very curious. What do you mean exactly. Thanks Tarot is a big part of my life, no question about it. With its help I've developed and grown and I've learnt so much from it. However, if the first time I saw a deck I was awed and reverent I probably wouldn't keep going all these years. Why be afraid to laugh at Tarot and at myself when I take it too seriously? I've been reading for over ten years and I still don't know what I'm doing. So?

Pagan X	16 Sep 2004
You have to be the reader you are. Right now, you are experiencing what I called in my own life, The Eye of the Dragon. You're rejecting oppressive bs like easy overmedication, hypocrisy, floofiness in general and seeking truth in all its "unmerciful" glory. In doing so, I wish for you that you find that covering up Truth is no mercy, and those who did so, made huge effing mistakes, but I digress... Anyway, I see no problem with you offering cold hard Goth readings for people who want/can handle cold hard Goth readings. There are certainly decks available to meet that desire, why not readers? I think the Tower is very Satanic.

Ace	17 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Pagan X In doing so, I wish for you that you find that covering up Truth is no mercy, and those who did so, made huge effing mistakes, but I digress... Very true, Pagan X! I remember years ago, at a meeting of a Parapsychology group, one woman who was fullfilling an obligation but was very down on psychics. Why? I asked. She told me this story: she and her husband had been to a reader and asked about her husband who was going in for surgery in a few weeks. The reader said that everything would be fine and he would come through just fine. The Man did not survive the surgery and this woman was a widow. "I don't mind so much that he died, but I am very angry that she lied and said it was all going to be alright." Right then I knew, I should never cover up a sad outcome. Better to know the truth, than find out the hard way.

Alissa	17 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Pagan X I think the Tower is very Satanic. I was hoping you might expand on this idea, Pagan X! I've never seen the Tower in a Satanic frame of reference, but definitely as "Revelation." Would you elaborate more?

HudsonGray	17 Sep 2004
"The reader said that everything would be fine and he would come through just fine. The Man did not survive the surgery and this woman was a widow." It's entirely possible that's what the reader saw, not necessarily misinterpreting the cards or anything. The future isn't set in stone, all it takes is one small mistake & the doctor no longer has a live patient. We'll never know what changed things, or if she gave a bad reading, or was lying, or just misinterpreted the outcome, or what actually happened. A person shouldn't rely 100% on a tarot reading just because they got one from someone.

rosyelf	19 Sep 2004
Dear Frequency, May I insert my humble opinion here. You have a lot of grievances. And maybe you are totally justified-I'm not suggesting otherwise. Life is hard. But I feel there's a hell of a lot of anger there right now. Is this the right time in your life to do tarot readings for other folk ? Of course you don't have to be fully enlightened-otherwise, no-one would do it !-and I'm not saying successful Tarot readers don't have their problems, because they do, but anger is not a good thing to have around in a reading (at least, not the consultant's anger) and it may be very offputting. Just a thought. best wishes, rosyelf

MeeWah	19 Sep 2004
Ace: Agree with HudsonGray. I know of a reading wherein the reader saw The Sun & other cards usually of the upbeat variety apparently contrary to what he knew to be the situation for a terminally ill client. Whilst the reader knew the client to not have long to live, the reader also saw the cards as I: as alluding to a "healing" upon departing the life--in effect, discarding the constant illness & pain. Perhaps the reading in question here was similar to the one my reader friend experienced.

shelikes2read	19 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah Ace: Agree with HudsonGray. I know of a reading wherein the reader saw The Sun & other cards usually of the upbeat variety apparently contrary to what he knew to be the situation for a terminally ill client. Whilst the reader knew the client to not have long to live, the reader also saw the cards as I: as alluding to a "healing" upon departing the life--in effect, discarding the constant illness & pain. Perhaps the reading in question here was similar to the one my reader friend experienced. I saw this post and felt the need to mention that in some cases, a person who's terminally ill and suffering terribly might WELCOME departing this life, if they've made their peace and are ready to move on. Every situation is different and every person's view of what death means to them is unique. I presume the widowed lady, and her husband who passed away during surgery, were looking for a literal physical healing and recovery, not the sort of healing brought about by his passing on. :( And I'm sorry to hear that they were disappointed on that score, with or without having had a card reading prior to his surgery that suggested the operation would be successful. But other patients in completely different situations -- especially situations where modern medicine's solutions have been exhausted and a cure is most likely not forthcoming -- might have a completely different perspective on what it means to depart this life. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Macavity	19 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Ace "I don't mind so much that he died , but I am very angry that she lied and said it was all going to be alright." Hmmm (wry humour warning) Nice to see someone with... priorities (Egads!) }) Macavity

Jeanette	19 Sep 2004
Macavity, you are wicked! That did put the comment into perspective! Frequency, I just don't know how to respond to any of your post, it almost seemed like a manifesto! Maybe you should have written who you aren't upset with.

TheLovers2	20 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity Hmmm (wry humour warning) Nice to see someone with... priorities (Egads!) }) Macavity Macavity: My sentiments exactly. It was interesting and a few other words I won't mention, to see how MUCH importance this woman placed on her Reading. I'm not saying that Readings shouldn't be considered to have validity (obviously) but, my goodness! ********************** Frequency: I AGREE WITH ROSYELF AND JEANETTE! As I was reading your post, I kept asking myself what all of this has to do with Tarot. Granted, it related a bit, but, IMHO, it seemed to be a discourse on your beliefs/opinions/feelings as they relate to medication, Goth, and Satanism, as well as, generally "putting down" the choices that others have every right to make. The very thing that you don't want anyone doing to you. Having said that, my hat's off to the AT members who have responded, IMO, to your post with consideration, thoughtfulness and sensitivity. We all need a little help sometimes in finding our way and sorting things out. TL2 :TLOVE

Ace	20 Sep 2004
Since my post about the woman whose husband died has drawn a lot of comments, I will start a new thread about it! Thanks for your comments, sorry to have "hijacked" your thread, Frequency!

Frequency	26 Sep 2004
I've been through a lot of pain and when I wrote this I was still feeling an enormous amount of insecurity. I've been given a chance though to really go somewhere tangible and not up in the air so far that I can't even see it... There's a lot of anger in my post because I was reading the Satanism thread and few people had the willpower to go to Chapters or Barnes & Noble or whatever store they can find it in and just sit down with a tea or coffee, and READ IT. It's EXTREMELY short. Each chapter takes very quick jabs at our false sense of mass social morality. It's clear to anyone that once they read "Wanted: God Dead or Alive" that the man knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote it, and it is carefuly worded. In every case I have seen where people disgaree with something, I can easily tell them they're wrong and quote a passage in it to prove it. I saw it over and over again in that thread and if I'm not mistaken Kiama was probably the only person offering any insight. As I've said... I know of other religions since I studied them in school, and I have ofcourse looked into the Temple of Set and the Vampire Temple... I won't discuss the Vampire Temple because they're a secret society not an above ground religion. You can't go to Chapters and read the Vampire Bible. You can only order it through the website. Talking about something like that would be pointless and a waste of energy anyway since in order to make sense of it you just have to do it, and it's better to just get the book which most of you might never do.

TheLovers2	26 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Frequency I've been through a lot of pain and when I wrote this I was still feeling an enormous amount of insecurity. I've been given a chance though to really go somewhere tangible and not up in the air so far that I can't even see it... ________________________________________________ Frequency: Let me say that I'm sorry for your pain. I'm sorry for mine and everybody's, really. I mean that. Quote: ________________________________________________ Talking about something like that would be pointless and a waste of energy anyway since in order to make sense of it you just have to do it, and it's better to just get the book which most of you might never do. You might be right about that. But, then that's a choice people have the right to make. Hopefully, it wouldn't impact you so personally, that others choose differently from you. However, when it comes to how you work with the Tarot, I think people have given some good advice/suggestions in this Thread. :) TL2 :TLOVE

Alta	26 Sep 2004
Frequency, follow your path, it is the right one for you.

lunar_rabbit	26 Sep 2004
Frequency - You are obviously an intelligent person with a lot on your mind. It sounds like you are fed up with people judging and misunderstanding your choices in life -- Satanism, Goth culture, etc. It is a rite of passage for young men and women of every religion and culture. This is probably a good forum to bring up these topics because most of us here are pretty open-minded and open to learning about other people's choices. Remember to be open-minded to other people as well, and not to shut down the entire conversation based on a few comments you disagree with. No, not everyone will understand. But yes, you may find something interesting or useful any way. For the record, not all tarot enthusiasts or readers are wiccan or pagan. Not all of them dress like gypsies for readings. Those perhaps are the ones that get the most attention, and they "play the part" for parties or pyschic fairs because they have found that people who know nothing about tarot enjoy the quaintness of whole gypsy ambiance. But that is like saying that all Goths are evil, mean people who sacrifice the family cat for entertainment. Not true, it's a stereo type based on a few individuals who happen to get the attention of the mainstream. You don't have to do touchy-feely readings to be effective. But do be conscious to be respectful of other people's feelings. Being straightforward and concise is one thing, but being mean and cold-hearted is another. That said, you need to do what works for you. Being so opinionated and strong willed, this should be easy. If you try to pretend to be something you're not, then it probably make your readings less effective. Dress like yourself, act like yourself, use a deck you like, and start reading for friends -- perhaps for a barter or trade system instead of money if that works better. As you practice in a client-type setting you will find the groove that works for you. Ask your friends to spread the word for you that you are doing readings professionally. I'm curious about your opinion on this. People who are spiritual say that the message from the tarot cards comes from "God" or their interpretation of the what worship. People who are pyschological, say that the tarot speaks from the collective unconscious. I know very little about Satanists or Goths, so when you read tarot, where do you think the source of the message is? Good luck!

The Something Irking Me About Tarot Consultants... thread was originally posted on 13 Sep 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.