internet dalliance?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ELOstone	12 Oct 2004
Hi everyone!In the last 10 days, I have had (and seen) several queries (one on these forums) that pertained to suspected or known internet dalliance, ie: online affairs etc, and the one card in common in all of these has been the 7 of swords. I am relatively new (REALLY?) to Tarot. In all the posts on this forum, I dont see any correlation with this phenomena (sp) and this card. Does anyone have any thoughts &/or insights on this? I am sorry... I probably should have posted this on the "Talking Tarot" forum...I apologize to all (as i quietly and unobtrusively scoot away on my belly like a scolded puppy)

Kath	12 Oct 2004
Swords can relate to communication (the internet), and the 7 of swords is a card that can denote hidden betrayal or deception (dalliances). That doesn’t mean to say that every time this card comes up someone is having an affair (cyber or otherwise), but it can mean that someone is acting unethically, doing something behind the scenes or being deceptive.

Ace	13 Oct 2004
7 of swords is deceit, denial, and lies. So it may well come up in a reading on unfaithfulness.

MeeWah	13 Oct 2004
Have seen various Swords cards to pertain to the internet/cyber medium or to indicate a preoccupation with same. Ditto for the activities with those "adult phone lines". Thus, 7-Swords appropos in terms of "internet dalliance" or "surreptitious romance". In general readings at a distance for 2 different people where there was a concern about their relationship with another, 7-Swords & 5-Swords appeared respectively. Discovered after one of the readings that the man in the relationship was an internet predator of lonely women. The last memorable such occasion involving the internet occurred during an in-person general reading expressed as "What do I need to know?" where Ace-Swords appeared. I understood that to refer to truth & clarity; severance or cutting away. I knew the interest was in the viability of the relationship with a boyfriend, whom she reluctant to identify but knew/saw who he was anyway. Also saw him sitting at a computer, which spoke volumes. Intent on seeing the monitor though his body blocked my view, I was very started to suddenly see the monitor as if through him with a face on it. I described the general appearance of a younger woman. I was sure this meant they had exchanged pictures. Shortly thereafter in real life, I saw the boyfriend with the other woman--she matched the woman I saw on the monitor. In many respects, this a very small town.

ELOstone	13 Oct 2004
Thank you, MeeWah, Ace and Kath for your insights! I am amazed at all the different nuances each of the cards have, depending on the nature of the situation and question. MeeWah, I found your post fascinating...its incredible what the cards can show/tell us if only we're open to it. I'm feeling somewhat betrayed, because I've been trying to learn the meanings of the cards now for some time. The only study aid I've had until just recently was the companion handbook to my tarot deck, and it has,(as I'm finding out now) interpretations that have nothing to do with the cards. For example, it intreprets the 7 of swords as "Bad Luck", "Things not working as planned", "Unload baggage now" etc... nothing like what I've been learning here at AT. No wonder I havent been able to make sense out of the cards! Thank you all again for your thoughtful insights! I'm truly grateful for your clear and thoughtful guidance. Blessings to All elo

MeeWah	14 Oct 2004
ELO: Depending on circumstance, 7-Swords *can* mean: "Bad luck"; "Things not working as planned" (Swords can pertain to plans if associated with Air element--the mental realm & intellect); "Unload baggage"; others. Book meanings usually based on their author's associations or references & have their place; however, only through practice & hands-on readings that other meanings develop; also the depth. Thus, possible to not see the same meanings for a particular card each time but within the context of an inquiry/reading which provides a resulting "spin" on a card's significance. My own meanings derived from the reading process & developed over years of readings. I do not always "get" the meanings from the cards per se. They tend to act as a trigger for an interior process related to intuition & not always to the actual image on a card. Reading Tarot books can provide a wealth of possible meanings & thus a storehouse of reference to draw upon. Most LWBs accompanying decks are little more than a re-hash of the most rudimentary meanings; but they can serve as a beginning. I read very few Tarot books. Can only emphasize practice, practice, practice! The more readings one does, the greater the opportunity to acquire the experience with a myriad of different meanings.

Macavity	14 Oct 2004
I must admit I DO LIKE some of the "modern" meanings of cards, one sometimes sees in print. Though slightly off-topic: Eight of Wands as: swiftness... distant communication and ultimately the internet? Better still it's reversal as "Spam Email, Viruses etc." }) Perhaps one should watch out for this card, as reinforcing the more "traditional" ideas e.g. by spread proximity? All to be taken with a pinch of salt, but quite fun nevertheless? Maybe there are other internet associations folk can come up with? ;) Macavity

MeeWah	14 Oct 2004
Macavity: Interesting the mention of 8-Wands. On different occasions it has meant "Power on now!" & "You have mail!" The first time I saw the "Power on now!" was after last September's Hurricane Isabel knocked out power in virtually the entire state from the first day of its hit. (Afterwards, saw an aerial photo where the state appeared eerily blacked out as if it had disappeared.) At work the following Sunday, I pulled 8-Wands. I was excited as it meant our blackout would be ending. By late afternoon, a phone call from family confirmed the good news. Workplace had been running on a backup generator system & in an area where power restoration took longer. Though both Knight-Wands & Knight-Swords appeared upright, they struck me as "reversed" & to indicate "internet lotharios" in different readings. The Knight-Wands was married.

Alissa	14 Oct 2004
Sociologically, I find it fascinating that thus far everyone has associated the term "internet dalliance" with deceit, and shameful behaviors that need to be hidden. The association everyone jumped to was that these 2 people have something to hide by connecting to each other through the internet. Sure, that's sometimes the case. Break down the words... the term "dalliance" suggests a light-hearted romance, one that may not ask commitment of the romantic partners involved. The word internet is self-apparant. The word "affair," which has more baggage than "dalliance," is mentioned in the first post... but still does not explicitly tell us that there is reason for deceit. And isn't it interesting that cards like the Lovers, the Sun, or the World aren't being discussed - coming together, facing and making choices, having a new start, or re-entering life with wisdom and experience to guide you in a new relationship...? Buncha cynics ;) around here, aren't we? What about the Magician? What if internet user A longs to have someone in her life and uses the skills and tools (computer) around her to bring that person, internet user B, into manifestation? We are also assuming, I believe, that internet romances are doomed to fail... "Bad luck", "Things not working as planned." Are there no romantics out there??? })

MeeWah	14 Oct 2004
Alissa: I had forgotten The Magician. As ye may already know, I do associate The Magician with the internet also given its association with communications & creativity/manifestation. Internet associations need not necessarily imply a negative connotation. There may be other factors contributing. The examples I mentioned in previous posts are based on the particular readings experiences for folks who engaged in internet relationships that manifested in the physical. In all the cases, I was not told in advance of the origin of the relationship. At times, surrounding or other cards in a throw contributed. Such as The Moon supportive of possible deception in one reading; The High Priestess indicated secrets in another; The Lovers indicated the nature of the relationship in still another--in other words, Major factors influenced the takes. Btw: after failed relationships in real life & via internet (whose demise foreseen due to other elements) one client culminated a relationship begun via internet with marriage. They are very happy. Another woman has also married after an online relationship. Daresay the meaningful internet friendships/relationships are quite indeed possible & that is also based on the personal experience.

Emily	14 Oct 2004
I usually get the 7 Swords just before I get a virus on my pc. Its happened a couple of times now so if I get this card in my readings I wait to see what happens. But it does seem to be the perfect card to point towards sneaky and malicious behaviour.

MeeWah	14 Oct 2004
Emily: That makes sense as suggestive of skullduggery afoot or the clandestine. The following experience did not involve a Swords card, but still made a lasting impression regarding my computer. A couple of days before my old PC crashed, drew 16-The Tower. Although a technical dummy, I happened to look at my computer "tower" & immediately associated the card with it. As I had no knowledge of what else to do, waited. Even told family, who told me I was nuts & to not go looking for trouble. I was not consciously looking, but trouble came anyway. Took about a month before I got it back from a repair service.

RedMaple	14 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Alissa Sociologically, I find it fascinating that thus far everyone has associated the term "internet dalliance" with deceit, and shameful behaviors that need to be hidden. The association everyone jumped to was that these 2 people have something to hide by connecting to each other through the internet. }) I think one of the reasons "deceit" comes up is that it is so easy to hide behind a mask on the internet, to pretend to be what you are not. I know, I know, people do that in life, as well, but you have to admit it is pretty easy on the internet to invent an alternative self. And I don't mean to be sexist, but many men in particular seem to think that an "internet dalliance" isn't real, therefore isn't a betrayal...whereas, most women I know feel that intimacy is intimacy, physical or not.... RedMaple

Kath	14 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Alissa Sociologically, I find it fascinating that thus far everyone has associated the term "internet dalliance" with deceit, and shameful behaviors that need to be hidden. The association everyone jumped to was that these 2 people have something to hide by connecting to each other through the internet. I don't think internet dalliances are wrong or bad. However, when one (or both) of the internet dalliance-ers is already in a relationship with someone else, then it's deceitful. I think that's the kind of situation that spawned this discussion. I know several people who have met online and are now happily married, and several more who are looking for a partner using the net :)

The internet dalliance? thread was originally posted on 12 Oct 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.