Readers and 'Codes of Ethics'

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jmd	14 Oct 2004
Arising partly out of reflections and considerations in the UK article link thread, I thought it may be useful to ascertain current views of Aeclectic's contributing membership. Part of the beauty of a poll is its maintained anonymity - but of course a progressed discussion may also reveal some of the underlying reasons for particular views. I have time-limited the poll to automatically lock after 90 days (3 months).

maria42airam	14 Oct 2004
jmd, Having a "Code of Ethics" could mean a couple of different things and I want to make sure which you are asking before I vote. :) Did you mean that the reader has a Code of Ethics as, for example, a psychiatrist or lawyer would have where they do not reveal information to anyone other than the querent that they garner from readings? For me, this is definitely a Yes, the reader needs a Code of Ethics. Or do you mean that the reader has a set of values they live by and their responses to the querent will be within those guidelines, thus imposes the reader's Code of Ethics on the querent. For example, you would expect that a minister, priest or rabbi would give advice that has the recipient following a course of action that is acceptable within their religion, creed or "way of life' according to the beliefs of the person giving the advice. For me, this is definitely a No, the reader needs to say what they see and not pass judgement prior to providing the information. Of course, this is easier said than done since we are human. After re-reading, it occurs to me that this code also mean that the reader "displays" their beliefs and political inclinations so that a querent can pick a reader that matches their philosophy. hmm...

Mimers	14 Oct 2004
I voted that it is important to have a code of ethics. It is important that people know what they can expect from you.

shelikes2read	14 Oct 2004
I voted "yes", but I've been through sign-language interpreter training, during which we discussed in GREAT detail the Code of Ethics for Interpreters/Transliterators: http://rid.org/coe.html . While I don't think there could ever be ONE Code of Ethics for the entire community of Tarot readers, I *do* believe strongly that each individual reader should consider what their own code of ethics is. And if they read for strangers, they might consider making that code available in print for the prospective clients to look over. That's what I did -- I wrote my Code of Ethics out so that people who visit my website will know exactly what I stand for, and what I'm bringing to the table along with my deck of cards. And if you compare it to the RID (Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf) CoE, you'll notice some major similarities in the points being raised. I phrased these points differently in my own CoE, but items 1, 2, and 4 of the Interpreters CoE make an appearance in my own list of ethical considerations: they're the first three things I named on my own list, plus the Interpreters' item 4 ("Interpreters/transliterators shall accept assignments using discretion with regard to skill, setting, and the consumers involved.") is the basis for the parts of my own CoE where I describe the situations for which I will respectfully decline to perform a reading. I have a few online ads in places like Craigslist.org and USFreeads.com, and in those ads I *tell* people to "click here to read my Code of Ethics" (with a hyperlink to said page), "and THEN if you find my approach to Tarot reading agreeable..." and provide instructions for requesting a reading via the ad in question or via my website. In my site's stats, I've seen hits to my page that come directly from ads like that, and in most cases the person does NOT visit the CoE page first. But by heck, I MENTION it to them first and I give them the option of going directly there before they ever look at my actual website. My family and friends already know what I stand for, and why they can expect me to do my level best to give them a good reading. But I figured that a CoE was the best way to introduce myself to people who've never seen me before, who might also be interested in having a reading done. JMO and all that good stuff. :)

lark	14 Oct 2004
I voted No. I read tarot because of the freedom it allows me. If the State were ever to come in and regulate, rule, and code of ethics me to death..... I'd stop reading professionally. I have my own code of ethics that is kept in place by my personal integrity...and that has always been enough for any of the many clients I have read for.

mercenary30	14 Oct 2004
I think a code of ethics has some real potential. As for having some government defined code, I would have to say no. Maybe if a Tarot Association of some sort were to have such a thing for its members, that would be fine. If a reader didn't agreee with the code, then they just wouldn't become a part of the association. From a personal stand point, taking the time to actually write down your own code seems like a good exercise in self exploration. It could also be a good reference in the case that someone were to inquire about the nature of your reading at a professional level. Like getting a reading position at a metaphysical store or a faire or something. Just my two pence.

shelikes2read	14 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mercenary30 I think a code of ethics has some real potential. As for having some government defined code, I would have to say no. Maybe if a Tarot Association of some sort were to have such a thing for its members, that would be fine. If a reader didn't agreee with the code, then they just wouldn't become a part of the association. From a personal stand point, taking the time to actually write down your own code seems like a good exercise in self exploration. It could also be a good reference in the case that someone were to inquire about the nature of your reading at a professional level. Like getting a reading position at a metaphysical store or a faire or something. Just my two pence. I first decided to write out my Code of Ethics when I was going through different Tarot webrings (at webring.com) to find rings that I wanted to add my site to. There's one Webring whose premise I liked, called "Ethical Psychics, Astrologers, and Tarot Readers". In order to add your site to it, it must have an easily-accessible code of ethics page, either right on the main page or linked to it from there. In order to join that webring, I had to create a written version of my CoE. I decided it'd be a good idea to do that anyway, since it would help introduce me to people online who've never met me, and don't know what I stand for. I realize that any charlatan can pretend to have a code of ethics... they can express that code in print, and then ignore it completely. But hey -- *I* know that I mean every word of what I wrote. And anyone who interacts with me will find that out. That's the best any honest person can do.

contrascarpe	14 Oct 2004
I debated how to answer this one, based on how the question was worded. I finally decided on "yes" because it mentions "A" Code of Ethics. I firmly feel that every reader needs a code of ethics, whether a guideline from an Association or a common sense approach by the reader themselves. Dan

April	14 Oct 2004
I don't think the suggestion is a govt enforced Code of Ethics, correct me if I'm wrong. In that case, absolutely, positively, most definitely every reader should have a code of ethics. Not the same one, of course. If a potential querant wants to know how we operate we should have that information as handy as we would a business card. We need to provide all the tools we can to help people make informed decisions. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a code of ethics that governs everything I do. Why wouldn't I have one here? Peace, April

punchinella	14 Oct 2004
I don't know how to vote, because the question is unclear. Any reader should have an internalized code of ethics imo, & probably does if s/he has spent much time at all working personally with tarot :) But is this what the question is asking? An internal code is FAR DIFFERENT from a common, public, or even governmentally mandated code. What are we talking about? A personal internal code?? A published personal code? A code agreed upon generally by the tarot "community"? Or, at the farthest end of the spectrum from the personal internal code, a code imposed arbitrarily from the outside by non-practitioners in positions of authority? --Without further clarification, there's no way to vote on this.

Mesara	14 Oct 2004
I voted no. Ive never even heard of tarot readers applying a code of ethics to their practice until I came here. I have no such code established for myself, but does this mean I'm unethical? I think using common sense in the course of a reading makes a wriiten code of ethics unnecessary. It just seems.... like overkill. Why do people feel the need to write their ethics down and present them to querents? Do readers need to be reminded on what they consider ethical? Do querents need to be assured that their reader won't traumatize them? It just seems that everything gained by a *written* or established code of ethics is something that should already be internally ingrained in a person, whether they are the reader or the querent. I think one of the most common assumptions by tarot readers is that querents are blind- that they are helpless in the hands of their tarot readers and thus won't recognize when they are given unethical readings or advice. Of course there is always the exception, but for the most part I guess I just feel that querents would recognize unethical conduct if they saw it, and upon seeing it would take their business elsewhere.

Flavio	14 Oct 2004
I think a personal code of ethics as Tarot reader is not so different from the values we already have and guide our lives, this code is an essential part of the foundation of my Tarot activities and is as important as studying and practice. Althought I don't do readings as a professional I feel the need to have guidelines to what I'm willing to do, according to my value system and to the responsibility I feel as a reader.

Nevada	14 Oct 2004
We live in different cultures. Within my own small town there are different cultures. To say every Tarot reader everywhere should follow the same code of ethics is unworkable. Yes, I think readers need to think about their ethics, and that everyone should follow a personal code. But not a universal one. It would have to be so general, something like: Don't kill the querent. :D Seriously, ethics are an important consideration, and every reader should have their own idea of why they read and what they consider ethical or not in the conduct of their readings. But the reason I read isn't going to be the same reason people come to me for readings, and I can't expect it to be. It isn't going to be the same reason the next reader reads. Nevada

tmgrl2	14 Oct 2004
FIrst, I must know WHAT my ethics are...I don't believe that in a live reading I need to spew them all out. I must know what it is, however, that I believe regarding what I offer and confidentiality and how I handle "divinatory" information. Before a live reading, it is the sitter that determines either by asking me direct questions what, if anything, I will say. I do often say that I use the cards as a tool to help me give spiritual guidance. If one has a business and/or a website, other factors drive this choice. In this case, I believe, especially online, it is wise to have a stated code of ethics so that someone visiting your site has an idea of what to expect. Again, the most important code is that which lies within us. At any time, that should be so clear that we can address any questions and present our views and beliefs easily and readily. terri

Major Tom	15 Oct 2004
I have chosen to interpret the question as meaning whether or not an individual should have a personal, written Code of Ethics which can be presented to any potential client. Naturally, this personal code could be adopted from any organisation to which the individual might belong. I must vote no. Personal ethics are, well, personal and certainly aren't static but constantly evolving as an individual moves through life. Now, I have a Code of Ethics posted on my website. Pondering this question caused me review my code and I now realise that it's in serious need of an update! :eek: My bottom line is that ethics, important as they are, are a personal responsibility. One of my ethical considerations is to avoid trying to tell people what they must do. ;)

Sulis	15 Oct 2004
I voted 'No'. I think that ethics are very important but I wouldn't want anyone else telling me what my ethical considerations should be. A persons' ethical code should be their own responsibility. Love Sulis xx p.s. Quote: One of my ethical considerations is to avoid trying to tell people what they must do I'm with Major Tom on this one :)

DarkElectric	15 Oct 2004
I just think a code of ethics is important in tarot reading, as well as every other aspect of my life. So I voted yes. because it's important to me. I don't mention ethics to my clients, or anyone else, unless somebody asks me about it. People I deal with get treated fairly, respectfully, and honestly. This would be the only way they'd know anything like ethics might possibly be involved, because it's just how I live, it's no bigga deal. What other folks do, and how they see it is their business. Whatever works for them, cool. But for me, personally, I try to keep the code. It makes it hard on me sometimes, easier other times. But at least I know what I stand for, whether anybody else does or not. I keep my ethics to myself, I don't expect anyone but me to live by them. But I make sure that no matter what other people may do, or how they behave, I keep my ethics in place. I sleep better that way.

contrascarpe	15 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by DarkElectric I just think a code of ethics is important in tarot reading, as well as every other aspect of my life. So I voted yes. because it's important to me . I don't mention ethics to my clients, or anyone else, unless somebody asks me about it. People I deal with get treated fairly, respectfully, and honestly. First sentence - well put! I also don't mention ethics to my clients as well because in life, I EXPECT people to be ethical. I know it is naive, but I always give everyone a chance. Unfortunately, I have been burned, but after awhile you learn how different people act in different situations. I do carry a Code of Ethics in my Tarot bag in case it ever comes up. It is the one presented when you join the ATA and I think it gives a good starting point. One of these days when I am not so lazy I plan on altering it to include other things I believe strongly in. Dan

Majecot	16 Oct 2004
So far it is a split decision here! 50/50.. I voted yes because having a Code of Ethics is very important! I do not feel that having A Code of Ethics IMPOSED on a reader by a state or local government or other agency is neccessary or invited. I too expect people to be ethical, I know in reality it does not always happen that way, but I am an ethical person, and I expect treatment in kind. I do not feel it is neccessary to post it on the wall however, just to be it.

jmd	16 Oct 2004
Personally, I of course also not only expect people to be ethical, and to carefully consider the ethics of each situation as it arises. Hence I voted 'No'.

skytwig	16 Oct 2004
No. There is already an unwritten code of ethics in place that readers can abide by or ignore. We know there are charlatans wearing the guise of readers, simply to steal. That is on them..... Establishing a legal code of ethics will not deter such activity; it will only legalize it. Charlatan readers will find a way to abide by the 'rules' and 'read for profit' not for insight..... If anything, such legalization would enable them a kind of status that they do not now have.... Do we want to give charlatans such a 'hook'? Having worked in the recovery industry, I can tell you that rules and regulations, though they were created with the patient in mind, are incredibly restrictive and binding.... Rules, especially when dealing with the 'healing' industry, demand more and more rules. It becomes a mammoth amalgamation of 'fine points' that will inevitably constrict and bind the art of Tarot.... Imagine, for instance, decks having to be approved by a Board of Tarotists before they can be sold to the public or used by Tarotists!! That's what will happen..... We cannot control how people read or how they behave when they do. We can, however, be the best people we can be, carrying on the tradition of Tarot as we have been taught. We can exemplify the beauty of an art that should always be more spirit than 'law'...... :) skytwig

Moongold	17 Oct 2004
I voted NO. If we ever reach the stage where Governments start regulating Tarot we would be in deep trouble. My wild imagination immediately starts picturing "black market tarot decks" ! All you collectors can start salivating because your investments just skyrocketed. A thought just crossed my mind - the powers that be could turn the Tarot into a psychological test - like the Rorschach tests where you have to be a reistered psychologist to use it! That would be terrible. The other thing they could do would be to classify Tarot as entertainment. Uggh. Then I think of US Games as being the greatest publisher of Tarot deccks in the western world. Maybe we are already too late? I somehow think we are never going to be that important in the scheme of things, though. I guess it was only forty or so years ago that they stopped book censorship in Victoria, Australia however, so maybe it is not as out of the question as all that. They say we are becoming more conservative, after all. I'm beginning to think that as a baby boomer I was born in a benevolent window in time.

HOLMES	17 Oct 2004
well i think it is good for a reader to have great code of ethics i never talk about a person information,, just say it was good in live. and that you have to go and ask them if you want to know details. but if i was getting regulated, i am one of the people who usally say yes for code of agreements when i go to play a game,, for heck if i can't be myself then they will boot me out of there for sure. or in other words they are rules of agreement that you agree to act accordingly or get banned. i have never been banned from a game or got in heck except once when i went to a player server and accident said the bu tt word. so i can't be myself and get banned from reading professinally by the governement,, as if, i would be still reading somewhere in an blackmarket cafe.. saying no speako englisho (as if that is my only language eheh ). yet if they say that one has to be a psychologist to read the tarot,, well that would fall under standars, and certifications and formeral training,, it would have to be high on all three counts, and in that case i alwasy wanted to study psychology eheh. but like they say,, i can't see it coming to that,, one thing i worry about is psycyologists using tarot cards, for they can be seen as quacks. can't they ? so remember if you see me on tv saying i didn't know i couldn't do that as i get escorted to jail for ethical considerations,, it is true i didnt' know,, for i didn't care to know, :) i would say take away my liscence... what i don't have one,, doh eheh

Fulgour	12 Nov 2004
Code of Ethics for Members of the American Tarot Association

Osher	12 Nov 2004
I voted yes, but there are only 3 'formal' ethics I adhere to: 1.Confidentiality 2.Not reading for someone unless they give permission 3.Being honest (that doesn't mean I need to tell everything, or not to use ambiguous phrasing)

WalesWoman	13 Nov 2004
I'm still in my Lover's year and can't seem to make up my mind on anything, including whether I think a code of ethics is something I need or should have or not. I have a sense of what I feel is right or wrong and try to be true to myself, following another code from nursing, "do no harm" That's about as far as I can determine at this point. Ask me again next year when I'm behind the wheels of the Chariot. So I'm in that low number of undecided in this poll.

jmd	13 Nov 2004
Fulgour (or other members of the ATA who have accepted this codification practice), I wonder if you would yourself in fact agree that the code truly reflects your own views in all cases without any exceptions... (which I of course do not think is the case, hence also why I have personally argued in other threads against codification per se). Let me give to each of these some quick counter-examples (highlighting the segment of the clause appropriate for my questioning: Quote: 1. I will serve the best interests of my clients, conducting my professional activities without causing or intending to cause harm. One may indeed have no intent on causing harm, but is it in fact the 'best interest' of one's 'clients' to tell the reading as one sees it, and if not, than is there dishonesty in the reading? Is it possible for harm to actually be caused, without even knowing that this is indeed what is the consequence? If to either of these one may respond in the affirmative, than clause one has been broken - simply showing not that the reader is at fault, but rather that the code (as all codes are wont to be) is inadequate. Quote: 2. I will treat all my clients with equal respect, regardless of their origin, race, religion, gender, age, or sexual preference . Don't know about others, but I personally do have differing respect for those whose sexual preferences are in some explicitly acted-out domains - such as bestiality, brutal rape, and paedophilia. Quote: 3. I will represent honestly my Tarot qualifications , including educational credentials and levels of certification . Is there not here a huge assumption that there even is such a warranted area? I also wonder whether there is an unstated assumption that only those levels of certification deemed acceptable to the ATA are those which are referred to in a circularly defined manner? Quote: 4. I will keep confidential the names of clients and all information shared or discussed during readings, unless otherwise requested by the client or required by a court of law. Though I indeed encourage confidentiality, I do not see it as necessary to keep 'all information shared' as confidential - I may indeed use a past actual reading to illustrate how certain sequences of cards may show certain meanings in a specific reading. Here, I would certainly have not kept 'all information shared' as confidential. Again, the code breaks down as code. Quote: 5. I will recommend clients consult a licensed professional for advice of a legal, financial, medical, or psychological nature that I am not qualified to provide. If trained in one of these areas, I will clearly differentiate between the Tarot reading and my professional advice additionally provided. If a person comes to me for a reading which indeed involves, for example, their relationship, or the purchasing of a new car, or an overseas holiday - each of these have legal, financial, at times medical, and often psychological aspects. I would certainly not necessarily say to them: on this, consult your lawyer, and on that, your financial advisor. Likewise, if I was a practising psychologist, why would I want to differentiate between my practice as psychologist and my practice as tarot reader in cases I strive to integrate these??? Quote: 6. I will respect my clients' right to refuse or terminate their reading at any time, regardless of prior consent. If my reading shows something they do not want to hear and they walk out (for example), stating that they wish to close the reading immediately, of course I cannot read for them any longer - as to whether the reading is hereby terminated, or whether I sense that I need to allow the reading (even if without the other person there) to unfold a little more, is subject to the situation at hand - not to a clause written in a 'code' by either myself or another. Quote: 7. I recognize that all ATA members have the same rights and obligations, and I will always respect and honor my co-members. Really??? Irrespective of any and all other considerations?

firemaiden	13 Nov 2004
Well, jmd, you see all the shades of grey here... it is much like how I only see shades of grey with respect to the meyers briggs stereo-typing... except... I think if you don't go trying to read too much into these ethical points, they make more sense. "Sexual preference" for example, is basically code for "gay, bi or straight". The other stuff you mentioned would go under the differently coined phase : "sexual deviance". You could write twenty volumes on each rule, doing an exegesis of what each word means, (what "is" is...). That's what lawyers (and biblical scholars) do... (and French literature students). But just because laws are liable to interpretation, doesn't mean we should do away with all laws. So too, here, I think it isn't enormously farfetched to imagine tarot readers could agree on a minimum code of ethics, such as privacy and non-discrimination based on race or "gay-bi-or-straightness". I also think that Tarot Readers should not offer legal or medical advice, especially if that advice were to substitute for a trip to the doctor or to the laywer, and a life may be at stake. Perhaps whether or not a person believes his readings can have the weight of medical or legal accuracy depends on the degree to which a reader trusts the cards to render some kind of objective truth. This is another discussion (read: argument) we've hashed out at length. My own personal view, is that the Tarot is excellent as a stimulus for creativity, a trigger for new thoughts and free-associations, and sometimes interesting insights can emerge. Punkt.

jmd	13 Nov 2004
Of course I agree with you on that last point you made (ie, 'My own personal view, is that the Tarot is excellent as a stimulus for creativity, a trigger for new thoughts and free-associations, and sometimes interesting insights can emerge'). My point was not to show that one could not interpret the 'codes' in a way which we would generally agree with (and of course each of us can find numerous instances), but rather that ethical considerations cannot, by their nature, be codified - despite this, the wording of the poll I wrote allows for individuals to determine their own 'code' if they so wish. The question is specifically, by the way, whether a person should abide or not by a so-called 'code of ethics' - as the poll asks: Quote: Should Tarot readers abide by a 'Code of Ethics' and in that, wording does become important, and my point was to show that no code can in all circumstances be adhered to, unless one becomes creative in one's interpretation.

firemaiden	13 Nov 2004
hmmmmmmmm, jmd, hmmmmmmmm, and getting hmmmer. I do understand where you are going, really, I do... still -- how is a code of "ethics" different from a code of laws? - Should society abide by no laws at all, simply because words cannot be one hundred percent pinned down?

April	13 Nov 2004
jmd wrote: The question is specifically, by the way, whether a person should abide or not by a so-called 'code of ethics' - as the poll asks:and in that, wording does become important, and my point was to show that no code can in all circumstances be adhered to, unless one becomes creative in one's interpretation. The poll asks if readers should abide by "a code of ethics" not "a standard code of ethics" or "the same code of ethics". If the code is well thought, and if it's a code I believe in, it absolutely can be adhered to in every circumstance. Part of having a code is being able to explain it when it is unclear. Of course it can be interpreted differently but the only valid interpretor for MY code of ethics is ME. It seems that this poll has instilled a fear in some of us that the govt is going to confiscate our cards if we don't abide by arbitrary rules that they made up and we don't agree with. The way I interpreted the question was should we have a set of guidelines in our ownreadings, a place where we can draw the line. I think most of us do this anyway. One major one that at least I hope we all agree with, is to be honest and not just tell the querent what they want to hear. Nobody's saying we have to write it down and make them read it before we start shuffling, but a set of rules for ourselves can clear up confusion when the querent doesn't understand why I won't answer a particular question. Also, nobody's saying that you can't change your code if something is no longer working. We do this in other areas of our lives even if we don't call it a code. Why can't we do it here? I might have interpereted the question wrong (I suppose it does happen :)), but I'm taking it very loosely. I don't think there's anything to be afraid of. Peace, April

shelikes2read	13 Nov 2004
One of the reasons I sat down and actually wrote out a CoE was that I wanted to join a particular webring that requires one. But since I spent several years studying to be a sign language interpreter, and the professional organization for interpreters does have a Code of Ethics, the concept of having a set CoE to follow was already familiar to me. Besides... my entire reason for creating a website in the first place was to try and turn pro. People who know me face-to-face are already aware that I set high standards for myself regarding honesty and accuracy. They know I won't tell them just what they want to hear, they know I won't try to lie and extort extra money by predicting doom and gloom unless they fork over payment for additional rituals to remove their bad luck, and so on. But the people whose first introduction to who I am and what I stand for is their visit to my website won't know that. So I felt that it would be a good idea to tell them just where I stand on various issues. And if they see my stance and decide that this is the kind of mindset they'd like to have in a person who's providing them with a reading, so much the better. Sure, there are probably plenty of people who write codes of ethics and then do just the opposite, because they didn't really mean a word of it. But *I* mean it. The best I can do is state it and then live up to it.

WhiteRaven	13 Nov 2004
I voted no. Simply based on individuality of not only the person but the situation, environment, question etc. How can one set a code of ethics to fit EVERYONE...we'd all be clones.. Each client is a unique individual with unique needs and situations...thus setting a code of ethics does not allow the flexibility that the client would need and want AND expect. If you are a reader that reads for other people you should put THEM FIRST...and what their needs are...otherwise you are working for yourself only and that's redundant...why go professional if you are not going to allow flexibility to meet the needs of ones client.

jmd	13 Nov 2004
I of course personally agree with WhiteRaven, and suspect that perhaps we are all generally far more in agreement than may seem to be the case. Firstly, I agree that ethical considerations are important - and trust that this has been clear all along. The issue is whether or not ethical considerations can in fact be codified. Next is the issue of an organisation's drawn-up 'code of ethics' as a generalised list of rules for others to abide by - this was, in essence, option two in the poll. And thirdly is the sense that numerous specific situations have quite difficult shades which may mask their full ethical aspects. For some, applying a stated code helps here, for others, it takes away. With regards to societal rules and regulations (laws), whether or not more are actually written than are needed for a healthy society probably depends on which community we are looking at, the sense of responsibility and care each of its members take, and thte general disparity and similarity amongst its various community groups. But to return to the issue - I generally agree that we each need to consider a reading's ethical aspects, and that, further, we will often be guided by general principles (confidentiality, equity, etc). These latter, however, need to be looked at in the situation presenting itself, rather than codified. One may indeed codify (in differing ways in differing communities) which side of the road one drives on, or whether a red street-light refers to 'stop' or 'go'... but these are sets of amoral agreements, not ethical considerations. Codes, when they refer to communal agreements, are often healthy for a community. Ethical determinations, however, are healthy when they reflect the situation at hand - hence also for my counter-examples.

tmgrl2	13 Nov 2004
So, then, jmd....it's almost as if you are saying "CODE of ETHICS" is an oxymoron? terri

jmd	13 Nov 2004
An oxymoron that unfortunately may at times mask ethical considerations by looking at the code, rather than the situation at hand.

WhiteRaven	13 Nov 2004
jmd wrote: An oxymoron that unfortunately may at times mask ethical considerations by looking at the code, rather than the situation at hand. Amen! Says the lady on the Justice card

eastarot	14 Nov 2004
I voted yes. I have downloaded the Code of Ethics of the World Tarot Network and framed it on my wall for all clients to see. Not only does it define boundaries clearly I feel it lends credibility to a reader. http://www.worldtarotnetwork.com/codeofethics.htm

Diana	14 Nov 2004
Obviously, a Tarot reader has some kind of Code of Ethics - it can be very wide, or very narrow, depending on the person. To take the extreme and HIGHLY unlikely example of someone coming to ask a reader how best to kill their wife or husband, I cannot imagine any reader giving advice on whether strangling them or knifing them would be a better solution. (One could imagine this in a novel or a movie, though.) But personally, I would never accept to abide by someone else's Code of Ethics - whether it be some Fancy-Schmancy Tarot Association with a fine-sounding name, or a little Group of readers from a country that no-one has ever heard of. Reading the Tarot is an individual thing. The Tarot speaks to each of us in different ways - in as many different ways as there are Tarot Students, and therefore our code of ethics is individual too. On top of it.... why should anything remain static? We are all entitled to change our "ethics" according to the situation at hand. We are not robots. I have three things in my "code" of ethics (although I certainly didn't call it a "code", just plain "ethics") on my web-site. 1) I assure people that the readings are confidential, 2) I "reserve the right to refuse a reading which goes against my personal values and ethics", 3) And I need parental permission for kids under 18. I said "personal" values and ethics. That is really what is important for me. I don't care about my neighbour's ethics. Those are his baby. Point 3 (about reading for minors), I only added until one day I consult a Swiss lawyer to see if I need to put it in. As I'm not sure about Swiss law concerning this point, I decided to put it in. I will definitely remove it if the law allows me to. Bah! Abiding by someone else's code of ethics is like blindly following a doctrine of a religion or a political party's directives. The very idea makes me shudder. Where is the Free Will that the Tarot teaches us? The Freedom to be ourselves? The Freedom to change and to evolve and to adapt? Why would anyone want to put themselves DELIBERATELY into a box? As to "credibility" for the client.... it's my readings that make me credible. Not a piece of pretty paper stuck on my wall. Only suckers believe in pretty pieces of paper. All medical doctors have their diplomas stuck on their walls. There are some medical doctors I would run away from as fast as I could before I would let them even touch me. It's not because they've managed to pass their university exams that make them a doctor or not. *Big big big sigh*

tmgrl2	14 Nov 2004
Well said, Diana! As I prepared my flyer that I now hand out as I go along and head into retirement and more "live" readings, I gathered ideas from AT, took some of what I saw on some of the websites of AT members, and some of what Diana has included in her "ethics" statement (as per her OK). I may change my flyer to say: Statement of Ethics....not Code of Ethics...I'm thinking about that one. I do say that readings are confidential...by that I mean the same as I do in my own profession...no names mentioned and what I said for a particular sitter go to anyone else. However, there is nothing to prevent me from (in my own profession, either) using examples of events or outcomes from a "case" a "client" from the past. I can be vague enough so as to not breach confidentiality. I do say that while I don't use the Tarot to "divine" or "predict" the future, the knowledge gained from the Tarot reading may act as a guide to empower life changes. (Diana, I think I got that from you...that and using the Tarot in a positive way as a tool for self-knowledge and spiritual guidance). I don't read for anyone under age eighteen. I reserve right to refuse reading which may go against my personal values and ethics. And finally, since I live in New York...Tarot is for entertainment since "fortune telling" is deemed an illegal activity. After speaking to my nephew, who is a NYState Supreme Court Judge...he said I could say: My readings are for your entertainment, enchantment and enlightenment. Enjoy the journey. This softens the harshness of having to say "for entertainment purposes only." I keep changing things in the flyer as I go along.... Anyone else think "Statement of Ethics" fits the package better than "Code of Ethics?" This is an important and good discussion. Depending upon where we live and how we earn the money for our readings, I think we each tailor our cards and flyers to suit our purposes. terri

shelikes2read	14 Nov 2004
tmgrl2 wrote: I may change my flyer to say: Statement of Ethics....not Code of Ethics...I'm thinking about that one. I like that tweak. Both titles would get the point across that there are certain ways that clients can expect the reader to respond to certain situations, but the connotations of each one are slightly different. A reader that doesn't find one of those titles suitable might decide that the other choice works for them instead. tmgrl2 wrote: I do say that readings are confidential...by that I mean the same as I do in my own profession...no names mentioned and what I said for a particular sitter go to anyone else. However, there is nothing to prevent me from (in my own profession, either) using examples of events or outcomes from a "case" a "client" from the past. I can be vague enough so as to not breach confidentiality. The Interpreters' Code of Ethics allows for this as well. As long as one is communicating about a particular interpreting situation in a way that can't possibly ID the deaf or hearing consumers, it's all right to share information about some of the situations one has encountered with other interpreting professionals. tmgrl2 wrote: I don't read for anyone under age eighteen. Anyone who's interested in doing professional readings might do well to track down what, if any, fortune-telling laws are in place where they live. In Pennsylvania, reading for a minor would be illegal. tmgrl2 wrote: And finally, since I live in New York...Tarot is for entertainment since "fortune telling" is deemed an illegal activity. After speaking to my nephew, who is a NYState Supreme Court Judge...he said I could say: My readings are for your entertainment, enchantment and enlightenment. Enjoy the journey. This softens the harshness of having to say "for entertainment purposes only." PA requires a "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer, also. I wonder if a rephrased version of that, like the one you're using, would be acceptable here? I certainly like it better. :) IMO, even a reader who doesn't want to create a formal CoE might benefit from sitting down and actually thinking about what things they would want to list in a CoE, if they were to write one up. It's never a bad thing to ponder the issue of "What things, exactly, DO I stand for?" on occasion, even if the only person who sees the list is the reader him/herself. And thanks to this discussion thread, I've realized that the items listed in a CoE should be reviewed occasionally and revised as needed. Tarot results aren't the only things that are not engraved in stone. :)

tmgrl2	14 Nov 2004
Thanks for your in-depth response, shelikes! I have already changed my wording to Statement of Ethics... jmd's discussion of the words "code" and "ethics" set me thinking. So far, my "legal" advice says I can expand my "entertainment" disclaimer to read the way I did. When I see "For entertainment purposes only," it really grinds at my sense of what we do when we read Tarot. terri

Diana	14 Nov 2004
tmgrl2 wrote: When I see "For entertainment purposes only," it really grinds at my sense of what we do when we read Tarot. Could those who have to use this stupid phrase because of dumb legal reasons (excuse my simplistic adjectives, but this makes me really want to to shake the lawmakers so hard that their teeth rattle and their brains - if they have brains - fall out of their ears), not put: "(Dumb) legal constraints require me to add the phrase "for entertainment purposes only". That would make things pretty clear for the querent.

tmgrl2	14 Nov 2004
Diana...that would probably work as well! I liked the idea of couching the words with enchantment and enlightenment. Any way I look at it, I'm annoyed it has to be there. terri

jmd	14 Nov 2004
How about, instead of 'Statement of Ethics' (which has similar difficulties), something like: General Guidelines by which I work and within which I feel comfortable After all (as an example), there is nothing unethical about reading for an 18 year old per se (irrespective as to whether the local laws specify that the age of adulthood is 18 or 21), but I personally and generally prefer not to. Also, and although I too am critical of the terms 'for entertainment purposes only', there is its etymological aspect to consider, and in that specific sense the clause says exactly what most of us would agree with: the reading is given for you serious consideration - ie, for you to entertain carefully. Hence, though it gives the appearance of being 'for performance purposes of your pleasure only', the words actually carry more weight than this. And for that, in localities in which those words are required, we perhaps need to also be grateful.

tmgrl2	14 Nov 2004
Hmmmm...will run that past my legal advisor, jmd. The "entertainment" statement. I like the other as well...a bit long as a heading, but perhaps in bold as a "header" statement with a : I think we're getting there... terri

tmgrl2	14 Nov 2004
I did another version of my flyer with the suggested phrase for "ethics" that jmd just posted. Since I have "Tarot Readings by Terri" in blue font on page one with a "blue" signature, I used the blue font on the flip side and in place of "Statement of Ethics," I put the phrase "Guidelines by ...." also in blue. I'll run off several copies of each..and get some feedback from my colleagues at work. I definitely am replacing "Code." I don't think it applies here and have never been comfortable with it. I do have about 50 flyers with it. I'll use them as I go and see what happens. terri

jmd	14 Nov 2004
I wasn't suggesting replacing the term 'For entertainment only' - rather was merely pointing out that the term isn't as difficult as it may seem if one is obliged to incorporate it. Certainly for myself, that would be the only way I would personally consider it - I am not a stand-up comedian (though perhaps many think I am, especially when I'm serious ;)), but rather provide readings as a sacred art. In whatever each of us does, of course, we each need to be comfortable with it, and truthfully reflect as clearly as possible where each stands. I personally prefer to not have any general statement, others do.

tmgrl2	14 Nov 2004
I agree with you, jmd, about Tarot as a "sacred art." That's why I am searching for a very "legal" way to incorporate the concept that I am not offering "fortune telling" which is not legal here. I don't take this to apply to my use of the phrase I chose. I simply find I cannot, under any circumstances use the phrase I most often see here: "For entertainment purposes only." I found "enchantment, enlightenment and entertainment" a more euphemistic way of offering the disclaimer. This one needs work... I feel as though I will use NO flyer at all before I put "For Entertainment Purposes Only" in mine. terri

TheLovers2	15 Nov 2004
April wrote: I don't know about everyone else, but I have a code of ethics that governs everything I do. Why wouldn't I have one here? Peace, April DITTO! Really, this is what I was saying to whiteraven in another Thread, where she mentioned a Code of Ethics. So, while I'm an ethical person, I voted "No" because it states: "No - ethical considerations are important," which I agree with, " . . . "but, it is up to the individual Reader to have or not have a stated Code." I agree with the importance, but, believe in the freedom of the Reader to do it how they see fit. They are going to do that anyway, unless, it is somehow regulated and I wouldn't want that. I don't want anyone deciding what my Code of Ethics should or shouldn't be. No way. Now, what might be good is if the Querent asks the Reader about that if it is a concern. I realize that this might be a stretch because a Querent may not be thinking about that when seeking information. I'm kind of thinking though, that having a sense of the Reader, being comfortable, having some sort of rapport would be beneficial to the Querent -- Similar to choosing a doctor or dentist, etc. You'd want to have a sense of trust. Someone did a Reading for me once and based on a certain level of discomfort (afterwards) I will be more careful about who I allow to Read for me in the future. For sure. :) TL2 :TLOVE

WhiteRaven	15 Nov 2004
Just to let everyone know that this topic has carried itself over to another thread...if anyone would like to join it..it's not hard to find.

Diana	15 Nov 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: Just to let everyone know that this topic has carried itself over to another thread...if anyone would like to join it..it's not hard to find. Could you please give us a link, or at least the title of the thread and the specific board it is in? (Copy/paste the url if you want to give us the direct link). There are so many threads and posts written each day - it's impossible to visit each and every one of them. Thank you. :)

jmd	15 Nov 2004
[center]Readings for People Who Aren't There...[/center]

smleite	15 Nov 2004
I voted for "Yes - a 'Code of Ethics' guides the reader, enables the querent to see what the reader stands for, and clarifies what may otherwise possibly be difficult scenarios", but want to make clear that I am only considering the professional readers.

raeanne	15 Nov 2004
Hi all, I was just wondering; how is it possible to live in a society without a 'code of ethics'? We all have boundaries and foundations that define what we do and what we don't do. Someone without any ethics would be such a sociopath they would probably be in a mental institution or prison. I was puzzled by the choices in this poll. The 'No' vote actually reverses itself in the fine print and states that ethics are important. I voted 'yes' because I don't see how anyone can do anything in life without ethics being involved.

tmgrl2	15 Nov 2004
raeanne wrote: Hi all, I was just wondering; how is it possible to live in a society without a 'code of ethics'? We all have boundaries and foundations that define what we do and what we don't do. Someone without any ethics would be such a sociopath they would probably be in a mental institution or prison. Hi raeanne...As one goes through this thread, it seems as though no one is in disagreement about Codes of Ethics as they apply in other situations. I certainly have a long one for my profession. That one is appropriate and necessary to protect my clients and to protect me. It's the use of one for reading The Tarot. I think I like the latter part of the discussion wherein jmd talks about Guidelines, that I began to be more comfortable. I have a flyer that I use and now I have replaced "Code of Ethics" with "Statement of Ethics" and another with the "Guideline statement jmd sugggested. Personally, if am I am going to take money for my readings, I want this flyer to talk a bit about how I use the Tarot and then on the opposite side, set some "guidelines" within which I work. terri

jema	15 Nov 2004
I think it is important to think about ethics but also to be flexible enough to change them over time as you evolve and your view of the world evolves. I also think it is very important not to impose your ethics on someone else, that is telling another reader they lack ethics just because they do things a different way, or come down hard on querents wanting to know things your personal code of ethics prevent your from disclosing. So, yeah, have a code of ethics but don't go around flaunting it as the ONLY or the BEST there is, allow some space for others and realise that not everyone sees the world as you do. For some it might be wrong or even illegal to do readings to minors, that doesn't mean it is for everyone. Some readers would never give advice on medical questions but for some that is what they do best. Some readers would never ever charge - that doesn't mean it is wrong for all readers to charge for the readings. As for the debate to use the word code of ethics or guidelines, I just don't care about what words are used, they are all in english and chances are I won't be using either. For me they are the same.

tmgrl2	15 Nov 2004
jema...hope you didn't think my posts were meant to apply to anyone else's mode of operating. My decisions to do what I am doing are mine for my own reasons. I respect all opinions and choices of all readers around the world. terri

jema	15 Nov 2004
tmgrl2 wrote: jema...hope you didn't think my posts were meant to apply to anyone else's mode of operating. My decisions to do what I am doing are mine for my own reasons. I respect all opinions and choices of all readers around the world. terri Huh? I haven't actually read the whole thread yet so my comment was not directed to or critizising anyone. I read jmd's question and a few passages here and there. I'll read your comments now though.

The Readers and 'Codes of Ethics' thread was originally posted on 14 Oct 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.