About ready to SHOOT the cards out the window!!!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

WhiteRaven	23 Nov 2004
Oh I am SO frustrated right now. I've been sitting here for at least 3 hours, trying to figure out this relationship spread that I was directed to and for the life of me I can NOT figure it out...I can NOT read the cards and they aren't talking to me at all!!!!!! I can't read for myself at all...it's a total waste of time...yet I keep banging my head against the wall everytime I try...sucker for punishment I guess.... Why do some of us have such a block when trying to read about our own issues? Why can't we just detach...so we can do a proper reading for ourselves? ok...I'm off the soapbox called Frustration... but I'm still pouting over here and VERY frustrated with this spread I'm trying to interpret...UGH :(:(:(

HudsonGray	24 Nov 2004
Can you try one card spreads? That might jumpstart things. But I know your frustration, I had a period of about 4 years that ALL I ever got on readings for myself were doom & gloom ones. Sometimes you just have to wait it out. If nothing works, start trading readings with someone else, they get to read you and you read them.

watchman291273	24 Nov 2004
Why don't you try another general spread like the Celtic Cross or Horse shoe? It may point you to the right direction. And btw, do you cover your cards for additional insight?

lunalafey	24 Nov 2004
oh- White Raven- I so feel for ya' I have been there myself. Frustration alone is one of my worst downfalls. It's a wirlwind of trouble- duck! things are flying! What I do...I put the cards down and don't try to read. In times like these I figure it's one of two things keeping me from understanding the cards....I have read the issue to death...or...It's something I must figure out on my own, without help.

Ravenswing	24 Nov 2004
White Raven-- Sometimes it happens this way-- the cards are silient. Or worse. I take this to mean that we have the answer there within us-- perhaps an answer that we do not wish to listen to. For me, silence is Tarot's way of insisting we look within. fly well Raven

Keslynn	24 Nov 2004
Perhaps you could try some detachment techniques such as pretending the spread is for someone else. Lay out the cards and read them like you would for another person, even talk out loud if that helps or write it down in an e-mail. Or you could meditate on your favorite court from the Swords family. They might be able to give you some insight. Also, don't sit there for for a long time if nothing's coming to you. Walk away, do something to clear your head and then come back. :) Kes

raeanne	24 Nov 2004
Hi WhiteRaven, Here’s an idea to help you get over the blockage of reading for yourself. Write your question down on a piece of paper and put it in an envelope. You don't need to seal the envelope, just tuck the flap in so your piece of paper won't fall out. Then write a second question down about some current event or a friend’s question and put it in a second envelope. Mix the envelopes up so you really don’t know which is which. Pick an envelope and put it in front of you. While you are shuffling the cards, focus on the envelope and then do your spread. Now, you might be doing a reading for your question or you might be doing the reading for the other question. You don’t know which it is so your only option is to read the cards as you see them. Once you have finished with the reading you can open the envelope and see if you answered your question or the other one. If you answered the other question, you can write a new ‘second question’ and repeat the process. Eventually you will get an honest answer your question. It may take several tries to get to your question but you will get some extra practice and you will know that you aren't seeing only what you want to see.

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Lot's of good suggestions here...Thanks! :) I've had a time with my Hanson Roberts deck for the past month or so. The deck has blank cards, it's a misprint...I'm SURE! LOL :laugh: BUT This is one of the biggest reasons why I turned back to my RWS. I've never had problems with this deck. Yesterday it was a complete JOKE. Couldn't get anything out of them either..I could have sworn that I was using the HR deck! Even a simple spread about my Mother's health just didn't make any sense to me whatsoever. As to the spread for myself....it's not so much that I didn't understand the cards. It's the spread I'm trying to understand and how to weave the cards together. For those that have been here for awhile I'm sure you are familar with "Umbrae’s Relationship Spread". I really want to understand this spread. It seems to be a spread that works deep and digs and allows one to see from 3 different angles. It seems to be a GREAT spread. But for the life of me I just can't "get it"! Like Luna's Astrological Twist thread, another one that I'm banging my head on a cement wall with. It's the spreads that I am having a hard time understanding. If I post my spread in the "Your Readings", there will be a lot of people that will have the same problem understanding the deepth of the spread....and for the most part. When I usually post in there, I don't get a reply. Maybe it's because I'm not a newbie and I have more "posts" than the normal person that posts in there. I don't know. I've posted three times in there. One reply to the first one..the health issue was a good one and I thank MeeWah and the others for helping me understand the cards there...but the last one I got 0 replies. So if one is looking for help in a reading...I really don't know where to go anymore. This, too, upsets me because for the most part, I do try and contribute to the forum as best as I can. Blah blah...yada yada... Anyways, I thank you all for the suggestions. I do walk away from them for the most part. (Especially with my Hanson Roberts). Yesterday, I was really trying to learn the spread. I still haven't figured it out yet. I'm not going to try another one because I want to learn this one. Maybe we should have a study group on different spreads. The ones that are a tad more complexed. If that already exists...somebody let me know please. If not, I just may start one up myself. note: I like the idea of the envelops too! :) Thank you everyone :)

Flavio	24 Nov 2004
Instead of reading like "this is my environment", "these are my hopes and fears" read as "this is WhiteRaven's environment", "these are WhiteRaven's hopes and fears", you can change "WhiteRaven" for your name. I hope it helps :)

Keslynn	24 Nov 2004
If it's particular spreads that aren't working for you, then maybe try to modify them so they make sense to you? I use a lot of pre-made spreads, but if a variation makes more sense to me, then I do that instead. I've also made up spreads to custom fit a question when none of the pre-fab ones did it for me. Another way to have the spread make more sense is to look at its structure analytically. What is the purpose of each position? How do they naturally relate to one another? As an example, take the Celtic Cross. There's a position for how you're seeing things and another for how they're seeing you. Are the cards in those positions opposite? Similar? What events can you see from the other cards that would explain that? Good luck to you! :) Kes

DarkElectric	24 Nov 2004
Hi White Raven. If you post your spread in the "Your Readings" section, I'd be glad to take a look at it and see if I could offer any insights which might help you out. It's real hard to read for yourself sometimes. I know that there are those moments when the cards seem to be speaking a different language altogether. But I've noticed that when this happens, and a reading doesn't make sense right away, it usually ends up making sense later, when all the facts come in. Especially with relationship spreads. The cards gave me the news about my newly insignificant other long before my common sense did. And it was a question of timing. So maybe that's what this is. Or, your guides may be trying to apprise you of a different issue that may need attention at this time, and those cards came out in the relationship spread. In any event, making up your own spread, with positions assigned by you, tailor made to suit your needs is always a good idea. I recommend this approach. It works for me!

Moongold	24 Nov 2004
I think Dark Electric's suggestion is a excellent. Sometimes we cannot be detached about our own issues and sometimes we over read for ourselves. Another suggestion. Try reading for someone else. That directs the energy outwards in a creative and giving way. Guaranteed to restore balance, hone your skills and give pleasure and meaning to someone else :).

lunalafey	24 Nov 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: Like Luna's Astrological Twist thread, another one that I'm banging my head on a cement wall with. It's the spreads that I am having a hard time understanding. my astro-twist is a tough one so stop banging your head over that one. If you like- post your cards in the 'tech' thread....and we can go from there. I might be able to help, but even with my throw: my notes are a goopy mess only I can understand because of the complexity of the messages within the 12 cards & their positions. I am overwhelmed by that spread a bit myself. This years spread is only the second one I have done in full. If anything we can bang our heads together :D

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Hi As you can see from my previous post, I'm not too successful when posting my own spreads in the "Your Readings" section and I'm a tad bit disenchanted with that area right now. This post was originally posted in that section and MeeWah moved it in here. When I originally finished posting this in "your readings" I noticed that Tarotlova had just posted a spread. So I went in and did an interp. So I did go and try even though I was probably totally off in the interp. I haven't consulted the cards for this particular subject for awhile now...so I don't think it's the cards...it's the reader that is poor at this. But I can relate when the guides are giving you a strong message....this has happened before. It's not only this spread either. I tried to read a spread for my mother's health and saw absolutely nothing either...so it's me...what can I say...I think I was rather on the frustrated side anyways for personal reasons yesterday. So trying to read in that mood doesn't help either...I feel like I'm trying to justify my lack of ability here. sigh Thanks for the suggestions...

Fulgour	24 Nov 2004
Just yesterday, I got feedback from a reading I'd sent out and among the questions to which I wrote a brief response was one about reading for oneself, and difficulty sorting the messages. This is from the short letter I sent, and was my sincere reply: There is often a feeling that the cards we draw for ourselves are actually meant for others, or that because of something we did or didn't do, the cards are confused and unclear... I don't know exactly why that is, but here is one way to have your cards and readings 'belong' to you more understandably. When you work with the cards, ask them what they have to say to you ~ allow them to show you what they have for you. The cards you draw when consciously asking only for guidance will then have complete freedom to provide you with answers, on any important issues ~ or even in the playful way they have. After this I also provided links, including one for Aeclectic Tarot :) My best advice was certainly to come "here" and learn from friends!

DarkElectric	24 Nov 2004
Oh, WhiteRaven, Everybody gets blocks sometimes. And it can be really frustrating, because it feels as if something one loves to do, and finds so interesting, is as elusive as trying to catch the morning mist rising off of a pond, in a jar, to bring home. But blocks don't mean one is a lousy reader, or will never get to be a great one either. This happens to everyone.(At least, every reader I've ever talked to about this problem.) I've been reading for 10 years now. And when I get blocks, wow. I see the cards in front of me, and they might as well be a dinner setting. Knives are swords, plates are pentacles, teacups are cups, and wands are the napkins all rolled up in their napkin rings. I have no idea what they mean, they seem like foreign objects. I'm just lucky this hasn't happened with any paying clients yet, although I'm so sure, the more I read for people in fair/festival/shop situations, this will indeed happen. So, my advice would be to hang in there, be kind to yourself, especially as concerns your reading skills, and when that block loosens up, WooHoo!

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Fulgour wrote: Just yesterday, I got feedback from a reading I'd sent out and among the questions to which I wrote a brief response was one about reading for oneself, and difficulty sorting the messages. This is from the short letter I sent, and was my sincere reply: There is often a feeling that the cards we draw for ourselves are actually meant for others, or that because of something we did or didn't do, the cards are confused and unclear... I don't know exactly why that is, but here is one way to have your cards and readings 'belong' to you more understandably. When you work with the cards, ask them what they have to say to you ~ allow them to show you what they have for you. The cards you draw when consciously asking only for guidance will then have complete freedom to provide you with answers, on any important issues ~ or even in the playful way they have. After this I also provided links, including one for Aeclectic Tarot :) My best advice was certainly to come "here" and learn from friends! This is good advice. Thank you Fulgour...I will keep this in mind and try this very soon. :)

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
DarkElectric wrote: and they might as well be a dinner setting. Knives are swords, plates are pentacles, teacups are cups, and wands are the napkins all rolled up in their napkin rings. I have no idea what they mean, they seem like foreign objects. This is HILARIOUS...THIS made me laugh and I don't feel like laughing today! :laugh::laugh::laugh: I can totally relate....I do hope this will pass. In the beginning of the week I did once card reading for Lark and Starsongs in the Blooming Circle and I swear the cards kept talking and talking...I had to stop myself at one point. They turned out to be good readings. But that was with a deck that I've started a study group with...very controversial deck I may add and not many have it for just that reason. I don't understand my "block"...and my lack of comprehension when it comes to trying new spreads. It is really frustrating! I hope it blows over soon and the light shines again! Thanks for finding a way for me to laugh today. I needed that and sometimes that is better than anything else....as they say...laughter is the best medicine,,,, Thank you :)

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Moongold wrote: I think Dark Electric's suggestion is a excellent. Sometimes we cannot be detached about our own issues and sometimes we over read for ourselves. Another suggestion. Try reading for someone else. That directs the energy outwards in a creative and giving way. Guaranteed to restore balance, hone your skills and give pleasure and meaning to someone else :). I've been reading for someone else all week...it's the spread that is driving me NUTS! :(

Moongold	24 Nov 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: I've been reading for someone else all week...it's the spread that is driving me NUTS! :( The spread is part of the reading :). In fact the art of reading includes the choice of spread (or no spread), and how you make the connections between the cards in the spread. It can include the patterns you see, sometimes of colour, or something else like a suit. I am not sure that I understand what you are saying. :( Having said that, Umbrae's relationships spread is an excellent spread but not one for beginners. You may not be a beginner so I'm sorry if I'm suggesting something that is wrong. Umbrae himself has given some good instructions on how to use his spread and they can be found via a search. You could PM him to ask. He is very generous in teaching. Many blessings :)

DarkElectric	24 Nov 2004
EEEEEEEEEEK! It has to be that 9 of plates! I'm forever getting stuck on that! (Please pass the guacamole... Thank you... :) )

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Moongold wrote: Having said that, Umbrae's relationships spread is an excellent spread but not one for beginners. You may not be a beginner so I'm sorry if I'm suggesting something that is wrong. No, I quite agree. The spread is way over my head and I should stick to something easier for the level I am at.

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
DarkElectric wrote: EEEEEEEEEEK! It has to be that 9 of plates! I'm forever getting stuck on that! (Please pass the guacamole... Thank you... :) ) Hey..I'm getting stuck on the whole damn table cloth!

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
lunalafey wrote: my astro-twist is a tough one so stop banging your head over that one. If you like- post your cards in the 'tech' thread....and we can go from there. I might be able to help, but even with my throw: my notes are a goopy mess only I can understand because of the complexity of the messages within the 12 cards & their positions. I am overwhelmed by that spread a bit myself. This years spread is only the second one I have done in full. If anything we can bang our heads together :D Thanks for the offer but as MoonGold pointed out, these spreads are not for beginners and I'm not at a level that I can understand the more complicated spreads so I shall stick with the simple ones instead. Thanks again for the offer Luna... Blessing to you and yours, (I'll ship you some Tylenol if you wish... :))

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
HudsonGray wrote: Can you try one card spreads? . Yep...that's where I'm headed. Thanks for the advice. :)

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Ravenswing wrote: White Raven-- Sometimes it happens this way-- the cards are silient. Or worse. I take this to mean that we have the answer there within us-- perhaps an answer that we do not wish to listen to. For me, silence is Tarot's way of insisting we look within. fly well Raven I thank you for your post....I'd like to add that I was following yours just recently and I feel for you in regards to your missing card...I am happy that you've found a solution though...wouldn't it be funny if once you received the new deck that the card show up...? Just a thought. Thanks for posting...and yes..I agree with you as with Fulgour that you have to look within for the answers sometimes...

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
watchman291273 wrote: Why don't you try another general spread like the Celtic Cross or Horse shoe? It may point you to the right direction. And btw, do you cover your cards for additional insight? At this point watchman...I think even the CC would be too complicated. No...I don't cover my cards. Thanks for the input

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
Keslynn wrote: If it's particular spreads that aren't working for you, then maybe try to modify them so they make sense to you? I use a lot of pre-made spreads, but if a variation makes more sense to me, then I do that instead. I've also made up spreads to custom fit a question when none of the pre-fab ones did it for me. Another way to have the spread make more sense is to look at its structure analytically. What is the purpose of each position? How do they naturally relate to one another? As an example, take the Celtic Cross. There's a position for how you're seeing things and another for how they're seeing you. Are the cards in those positions opposite? Similar? What events can you see from the other cards that would explain that? Good luck to you! :) Kes This particular spread that I'm referring to is for advanced readers. Unfortunately, I do not fall in that catagory. I will go back to it in the future though because from what I CAN understand of it, it's an excellent spread and I really do want to learn it. I'm just not ready now. ;)

WhiteRaven	24 Nov 2004
raeanne wrote: Hi WhiteRaven, Here’s an idea to help you get over the blockage of reading for yourself. Write your question down on a piece of paper and put it in an envelope. You don't need to seal the envelope, just tuck the flap in so your piece of paper won't fall out. Then write a second question down about some current event or a friend’s question and put it in a second envelope. Mix the envelopes up so you really don’t know which is which. Pick an envelope and put it in front of you. While you are shuffling the cards, focus on the envelope and then do your spread. Now, you might be doing a reading for your question or you might be doing the reading for the other question. You don’t know which it is so your only option is to read the cards as you see them. Once you have finished with the reading you can open the envelope and see if you answered your question or the other one. If you answered the other question, you can write a new ‘second question’ and repeat the process. Eventually you will get an honest answer your question. It may take several tries to get to your question but you will get some extra practice and you will know that you aren't seeing only what you want to see. Did I tell you I like this? I like this!!! Thanks :)

Emily	25 Nov 2004
Hi WhiteRaven, The 3 card mind, body, spirit spread is one that I usually have good results with - I do these now instead of a one card daily. Although sometimes the results can be a little brutal - lol - I wasn't very well last week and my cards were - Mind - Death, Body - 4 Swords, Spirit - The Hanged man - I went back to bed :)

The About ready to SHOOT the cards out the window!!! thread was originally posted on 23 Nov 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.