Question to all male readers (Ladies suggestions accepted )

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Flavio	16 Nov 2004
I've been in a Tarot course for almost 3 months by now, before the course I was able to do simple 3 card readings, sometimes using the books, sometimes don't, many ladies at the course were completely new to Tarot, last night we did readings during the class (for some course mates it was the 1st reading ever) to my big surprise many ladies got accurate readings using mostly intuition as they "have not finished the book" (BTW we use 78 degrees of wisdom as text book) I realized why most Tarot readers are female, they are connected with intuition from birth... for a moment I felt a little bit hopeless as a male then understood I have to make a little extra effort, so here I'm asking: [center]How other male readers connected with its intuitive side and developed it?[/center] Thank you very much for your comments.

jmd	16 Nov 2004
One suggestion in the little time I have right now... Developing the imaginative faculty can help. For example, take a rosehip in your hands, open it, and holding a seed, visualise how this single seed will germinate, sprout, have various leaves, and flowers, and rosehips. Penetrate the ground with its roots, absorb the light of the sun with its leaves, sense the flow of the sap along its fibres, sense into the density of the flower bud, the flower's parts (not just petals - have a look at a botany book to also learn a little more about it, and incorporate it into the active imaginative metamorphosis), the semi-gelitanous chemical compounds within its petals (which we smell), the tender stamen, and the dead-ness of the thorn... Now take one card, and enter it in imagination as though it were merely a photo from a travelling experience you have encountered, re-entering in living vitality the scene and times during which the static image sliced time into a mere caption...

OakDragon	16 Nov 2004
I can think of a few things offhand that helped. One is learning to recognize that you have intuition already in those "feelings" you get about something. I'm sure everyone gets them, but some may not realize it. Learn to trust the gut feelings you have, especially the first ones. The first ones can be hard to recognize, though, because they come and go so quickly. I have alot of trouble sometimes because I try to rationalize them away, thinking "That can't be right. It's not logical." I've learned the hard way that that's often not true. I think this way of thinking is more common in men and may be one of the blocks men have more often in developing their intuition. Another good idea is to use a deck that has illustrated pips (like the RWS, for example). Once you have a basic idea of what each card is "supposed to mean", even if it's just a rough idea, stop using the book (at least as far as looking up meanings goes). Just look at the picture on the card and think about what it looks like to you is happening in it and how it makes you feel. As you progress with your intuition, you'll find that you are getting more "psychic" feelings than before. By that I mean, your intuitions will seem to come out of nowhere more often, as opposed to ones that are more obviously stimulated by the pictures on the cards. As you'll find though, that doesn't mean they are less likely to be accurate. You'll simply be tapping into your intuition at a deeper level. I think the most rapid progress I made with tarot was when I decided to stop focusing on memorizing keywords or "book meanings". They are only meant to be a guide. The feelings you get and the thoughts that arise from what you see in the cards are far more important. I found that when I did this both my tarot skills and my intuition (as well as learning to trust my intuition) developed exponentially. Hope this helps you some.

noby	16 Nov 2004
You know, I can't help but wonder how much of the "women are more intuitive" thing is just a matter of hype and conditioning. It seems to me that it's simply more acceptable in our culture for women to talk about how something makes them feel, or having a hunch about something. Men are expected to be rational and authoritative, to back up impressions and statements with scientific evidence and tradition. (Seems I see a lot of this dynamic here - a lot more women here will say, "Just see what the card says to you, how it makes you feel," while a lot of men say, "No, this set of cards was designed by a person with a specific intent, and it's important to understand that intent and how it applies to the symbolism." Of course, I'm not saying this is true for all men or women here, but I definitely see a gender discrepancy in who tends to go one way or the other.) As a female, I haven't always been in clear touch with my intuition. I've always been more of a rationalist. I tend to want logical theory, cross-references, evidence from tradition, scientific evidence. In order to hone my intuition, I first had to read up on others' ideas of what intuition is and how one experiences it, and think about it a bit, then apply what conclusions I made. Only then could I begin to experience and understand my intuition on its own terms. I realized that being intuitive means connecting to what our brain tells us nonverbally. This can be done by paying attention to dreams, and recurrent visions. For example, this past year, I've noticed myself having lots of visions of horses galloping. So I've asked myself not to analyze this logically, but just asked myself how these images make me feel. I try to let the image and the feeling it evokes guide me, rather than the interpretations. For example, if in a moment of happiness, I recall a certain memory, I focus on how that memory makes me feel, rather than the specifics of it or interpreting it via conceptual ideas. I often understand better the wisdom of the moment if I don't try to force it into language. I think intuition also can be evoked through making connections rather than focusing on specifics. For example, it's helped me get away from "canned meanings" for tarot cards in books to study overarching patterns and connections between cards in a spread. For example, I may note that many cards depict images of giving, or note the presence or absence of elemental energies in a spread, then look back to the specific cards in light of what the overarching pattern is communicating. Intuition is basically a subtler level of perception. As such, to access it, we have to override our minds' tendencies towards the verbal and conceptual. Just as Zen teachers often note, we can have a perfect understanding of something, but drift a million miles away from it the moment we try to put it into words. So let yourself linger with the images and feelings you experience before trying to convert them into conceptual thoughts. And focus on connections you make between cards when reading a spread - these connections may help you see overarching patterns and subtle elements which escape the ability to be communicated in language.

Satori	16 Nov 2004
Hi Flavio, what a story! My first impulse was to say wear high heels...but you deserve much more than that. I think that for me, and from what I know about women, that women talk about the cards sometimes from a feeling perspective. If you listen sometimes to what a woman reader says she might say rather often "I feel like the tree is sad because..." Try to feel your way through the cards. The emotional response to the cards is powerful. Secondly, I think men run their responses thru a much different set of filters than women do. Perhaps you rationalize what you see, feel and think while you look at the cards. I suggest you get a deck that you have never seen before. A deck you are drawn to of course, and you work through it card by card and write down the first thing that pops into your head. Don't analyze it. Don't look up the meanings. Just sit and allow yourself a few seconds of looking and begin to record. And no matter what comes up you must promise yourself ahead of time that no matter what you write you will accept it, and not ridicule yourself for writing it. Don't edit yourself either as you write. A woman isn't thinking, "Holy $%!*! I must be out of my mind to think that the Magician looks vulnerable!" Allow yourself to use emotional language, use descriptive words and think outside of your gender, and outside of your masculinity..... Remember being a good reader isn't about masculinity or femininity, it's about opening a channel. Just that sometimes the channel may get clogged if you are worried about sounding girly or too sensitive or even, quite simply, wrong. I've met many people who hate to be wrong. Many of them are men. And, to tell you the truth, the fear of being wrong clogged me up for a long time too. I hope this helps. Hopefully this response isn't found sexist. I'm writing from my experience, not a mouthpiece for all women. I hope you keep us informed. Oh and Flavio. You might ask the women in the class how they do it.

noby	16 Nov 2004
I just had another thought. One difficulty in learning how to access one's intuition is a matter of expectations. In learning anything, one has to expect to make lots and lots of mistakes before one can get it right on a consistent basis. Start playing games with your intuition, such as trying to predict outcomes of things or what chain of events may result from a certain action. Don't be afraid of getting it wrong. Screwing up is key in the learning process. Just keep playing with it - make it fun, instead of some big, heavy project. Laugh at yourself when you guess wrong. The point is just getting familiar with making non-rational leaps. The more you do it, the more you get a subtle feel for what goes into a correct guess and what goes into an incorrect one. Over time, what started as guessing will transform into intuitional navigation. Of course, one can never expect to get it right all the time, or one would be seeing psychics on the news a lot more often... And I'm not claiming to be any sort of expert on intuition. But I have gotten much more in touch with mine over the past year or two. And my recent interest in the tarot has helped a lot. It gives me a structured forum for navigating my subconscious and what I'm picking up around me on a nonconceptual basis. It's clarified my understanding of a lot of things in my life by pointing me towards the underlying energies present in a situation.

noby	16 Nov 2004
elf wrote: Don't edit yourself either as you write... I've met many people who hate to be wrong. Many of them are men. And, to tell you the truth, the fear of being wrong clogged me up for a long time too. Yes, yes, this is key, what I was trying to get at in the last thing I posted here, but you say it more clearly and succinctly. Logic can act as a guardrail, such that the swerves of our mind send us flying off the cliff of accuracy less often. Intuition has no such guardrail - you're just gonna have to learn how to steer, and that's gonna involve a lot of crumpled cars at the bottom of the cliff in the beginning.

Eco74	17 Nov 2004
Female here... Just adding a theory to the gender-battle. ;) Men as a rule tend to be more "structured" mindwise while women have been "allowed" to think out of the box from the start. Just look at any daycare. When the boys are playing with cars, games and toys that require rules, the girls are making up imaginary worlds with their dolls and drawings. This lays more of a "free-spirit-foundation" for us and unfortunately puts men in general in a rather disadvantagous position when it comes to intuition and other such related bits in life. Try to let go of the facts and just 'react' to the card or image. Try it on other things too, and not just tarot cards. The way the leaves have fallen off a tree, the pattern raindrops make on the window, the shape of the branches in the tree, the patterns found in cobblestreets and cracked concrete and whatever else you get your eyes on. Occationally setting your mind to seeing everything as some sort of rochart-test makes imagination flow more freely. One can never be wrong in a rochart-test since there is no definite answer and it's the same with tarot. Any card can have any meaning at any time even if it does have certain links to specific meanings that tend to follow it along.

smleite	17 Nov 2004
See how many females answering? We just love to talk… eh eh. I think you really have a lot to gain in developing intuition (I am not going to discuss if woman have it naturally more developed than man or not). But I also think there is surely something you have more developed, that can help you to read as well as intuition would. I once observed a male reader – a professional one – that made tremendously accurate three-card readings, and was always able to say what he had to say in no more that three or four sentences. His readings were done in a couple of minutes. The quarent wanted to ask for more, because people always want to see their questions thoroughly discussed, but there was nothing left to ask about… all answered and done with, and let’s move on. But he always stuck to the most “bookish” meaning of the cards, that is, the Sun is always a great signal, the Devil always means a hidden intention, or something like that. Never saw him using his intuition. His system worked fine anyway (and paid well, too). Again, I don’t pretend to say a female reader wouldn’t read like that too. I just believe there is always a personal capacity that can help us filling the gaps, be it intuition, hard work and dedication, the power of synthesis, or whatever.

watchman291273	17 Nov 2004
I hear you... It's hard for me to stop being analytical while reading, but oddly enough it sometimes ends up creating some kind of brainstorm and then my inner voice picks up one of the options. I'd suggest you start with much bigger spreads than 3 cards. At least 10. Then focus on the whole picture, see the story they tell you. Then it's easier to be inspired by single cards.

Keslynn	17 Nov 2004
I'm a woman but I didn't start out horribly intuitive. For what it's worth, I think all of us are born with a great intuition which gets quashed or nurtured according to our upbringing. Mine was quashed. I tend to think about things very logically. To open up my intuition more, I made my tarot reading less structured. For one, I stopped using reversals, expecting intuition to tell me when it is a more negative expression of the card. In personal readings, I also stopped using specific spreads. I would lay out 5 cards and just read. Or I would create my own spread. I've been doing this for a while, and it's been working pretty well for me. :) Kes

WhiteRaven	17 Nov 2004
Woman here First off we all carry a masculine and feminine side. I would suppose that a male would have to try and attune to his feminine side more. Whether you like it or not guys...you DO have feminine side to you. I just started a study group with the Daughters of the Moon Tarot and I would be curious as to how many men would be able to attune themselves to such a feministic approach to Tarot. That would be quite the test I would believe. It sure would make one work on their "feminine" side and thus zero in on intuition as opposed to "the set meaning of the card thus..." Ego has a lot to do with it...the "male ego" ...as a Reiki practioner we have a saying..."when ego goes, Reiki flows".... well..maybe if we apply that to this topic... "when male ego goes, intuition flows..." and NO...I am not a feminist...so get that out of your heads! :)

Dstar	17 Nov 2004
Kes, I usually do the same. I stopped using reversed cards and set spreads, as a rule, a long time ago, and I found that everything suddenly became more accurate. Occasionally I will still use a set spread but not so much. I find that the language of tarot is sometimes constricted by set spreads...I read the spread in sections...these are not defined...it just becomes apparent when a new section is entered. The original post on here was some time ago...but, Flavio, if you are still looking for advice, I'm a man...and this method worked for me. D.

Flavio	17 Nov 2004
elf wrote: Hi Flavio, what a story! My first impulse was to say wear high heels...but you deserve much more than that. Hehehe :D I'm not that desperate.... after doing that you would see me posting in Crystals & Herbs asking: "My feet are in pain! what herbs are good for me?"

noby	17 Nov 2004
Keslynn wrote: For one, I stopped using reversals, expecting intuition to tell me when it is a more negative expression of the card. YES! A very good suggestion. I've been doing this for a while now too, and it really encourages more of a fluid response to the cards. Intuition is about picking up on energies, and so picking up on whether an energy is blocked or freely flowing, present in abundance or diminished, is a very good way to work with it. Keslynn wrote: In personal readings, I also stopped using specific spreads. I would lay out 5 cards and just read. Or I would create my own spread. Yeah, another good one. I started out with this just the other day. Laid out some cards and let myself figure out their pattern of relation. Creating one's own spreads gets one looking at geometry and connections, the kind of subtle things which intuition is attuned to. It can get you looking at and focused on the "space between" cards as well as just the cards themselves.

Flavio	17 Nov 2004
Thank you all for the answers so far, they're very interesting here is the list of tips and ideas to develope intutition, they are a summary, for more detail and background please refer to the posts. Use your imagination with objects around your and then use it also to enter into the cards. Realize we all have a certain degree of intuition, let it flow avoiding be so rational. Forget about LWB or book meanings for the cards, they're only a guide. Being intuitive means connecting to what our brain tells us nonverbally Intuition is basically a subtler level of perception. As such, to access it, we have to override our minds' tendencies towards the verbal and conceptual. Exercise writing your feelings for each card of a new deck, do`'t analyze the writing just let it flow. Being a good reader isn't about masculinity or femininity, it's about opening a channel. Start playing games with your intuition, such as trying to predict outcomes of things or what chain of events may result from a certain action. Don't be afraid of getting it wrong. Screwing up is key in the learning process. Just keep playing with it - make it fun, instead of some big, heavy project. Laugh at yourself when you guess wrong. The point is just getting familiar with making non-rational leaps. Try to let go of the facts and just 'react' to the card or image. Try it on other things too, and not just tarot cards. The way the leaves have fallen off a tree, the pattern raindrops make on the window, the shape of the branches in the tree, the patterns found in cobblestreets and cracked concrete and whatever else you get your eyes on. Start with much bigger spreads than 3 cards. At least 10. Then focus on the whole picture, see the story they tell you. Then it's easier to be inspired by single cards. If you feel some practice limits you like using reversals or pre designed spreads, avoid it (or them). When male ego goes, intuition flows... BUT if you feel intuition just doesn't come, don't worry there is always a personal capacity that can help us filling the gaps, be it intuition, hard work and dedication, the power of synthesis, or whatever. If new ideas keep coming (I hope :)) I'll add them to the list

Satori	17 Nov 2004
By George, I think he's got it! Nice list Flavio. You'll be writing a book on intuition, and those are the chapters.... :)

jmd	17 Nov 2004
Great analytical list there Flavio... is that the post which proves the point ? :D

RedMaple	17 Nov 2004
Female here. Great thread, with terrific advice. I do want to say that while I think we all are born with intuition, there may be biological reasons that men have a harder time with it. As I'm sure you all know, our brain is actually two brains, the left and right. The two brains communicate to each other through somthing called the corpus callosum, which is much more highly developed in females than males. There was a male comedian who did a skit on this, I'm sorry I can't remember his name. But the jist of it was, if you ask a woman how she feels about something, she can talk off the cuff, for an hour or more, without even thinking about it. Or rather, the talking and thinking are occurring together. But ask a man the same question, "How are you feeling?" and he has to pack up the horse, ride it to the other side of the brain, and look around. If nothing's on fire, he figures everything's OK. :) The good news is the more we use a pathway in the brain, the stronger it gets. Pretty soon the horse knows his own way, and gallops at that. :)

Shmuffle	17 Nov 2004
Who says you need intuition? :P *hides* No, really.

Imagemaker	18 Nov 2004
Quote: But ask a man the same question, "How are you feeling?" and he has to pack up the horse, ride it to the other side of the brain, and look around. If nothing's on fire, he figures everything's OK. This is hilarious, and so true!! And as Shmuffle asks (great name!), many men and some women have absolutely no understanding about why they'd need intuition. They operate only on facts and evidence. However, there's a great book called The Gift of Fear by a security expert, Gavin de Becker, who explains that intuition is a highly valuable tool for avoiding violent attack. Many victims "felt" things weren't ok, but dismissed the feeling because their left brain had no evidence. He says, listen to those feelings and act on them! Read the book and you'll want to develop your intuition!

Flavio	18 Nov 2004
jmd wrote: Great analytical list there Flavio... is that the post which proves the point ? :D I think so heheheheh :D

lawguy51	22 Nov 2004
Guy here.... For me it's not a question of whether men have more or less intuition than women, it's a matter of trust and belief. When I do a reading, I just trust that I've 'got it'. Whether I do or I don't. I am convinced I am intuitive therefore I am. Because we all are. For men, it's just stereotyping and conditioning that gets in the way. Given that men are so predominantly visual, Tarot should be a natural way of tapping into our intuition. Lawguy51

NightWing	29 Nov 2004
I think the experience of OakDragon and myself are similar. It can take seemingly forever to learn to trust those "gut feelings" we get about various things at different times. I used to pride myself on being rational and logical at all times. But I learn and relate concepts visually...which I think was an enormous benefit in developing both imagination and intuition. The cards of tarot itself are a good tool for further developing precisely the talent we need to use tarot to its fullest!

Original Destiny	29 Nov 2004
Hi Flavio, Studies have shown that the male and female brains are basically different. We men are more pragmatic/spatial thinkers, women are more social/emotional thinkers. If you go to the following site you can find out what sex your brain is http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/index_surveys.shtml it appears that my brain has an equal balance of both male/female so thats why i am more aware of emotions/feelings than most men. I found that whilst training to be a counsellor and therapist I did at times have some difficulty with my peers (all Female). At times they found me unemotional and cold and as the counselling training was emotional/feeling based I did have to work hard to make myself understood. there is no short cut to developing your feminine side because you have to listen to your feelings and if they are over-ridden by pragmatism and logic they can be difficult to find. Most men access information first.... not feelings...with practice you can learn to do both.... but it takes practice my friend

Moongold	30 Nov 2004
lawguy51 wrote: Guy here.... For me it's not a question of whether men have more or less intuition than women, it's a matter of trust and belief. When I do a reading, I just trust that I've 'got it'. Whether I do or I don't. I am convinced I am intuitive therefore I am. Because we all are. For men, it's just stereotyping and conditioning that gets in the way. Given that men are so predominantly visual, Tarot should be a natural way of tapping into our intuition. I support this wholeheartedly now. :) If men want to be intuitive, if they want to read Tarot or do other like things they could. I see poetry as another hugely creative and intuitive art. Many much loved poets are men. Sometimes I think men simply do some things differently. They are often just *with* people in different ways. A fellow here, Stefan G. has just done a Ph.D. thesis on this very issue. And yeah ..... I look at history and the current world and that old fashioned word *patriarchy* comes to mind. I wonder whether things will ever be different for many men but that is their journey. The capacity to *see* is within reach of all of us. Sometimes we have to be lucky to find it.

Diana	30 Nov 2004
Shmuffle wrote: Who says you need intuition? :P *hides* No, really. Did anyone go and look for Shmuffle who seems to still be hiding? Good point, Shmuffle (although I suppose Flavio wants to develop his intuition seeing as he made the thread). Smleite made an interesting post about a good reader who didn't seem to use his intuition at all and seems to make successful readings. I agree with Shmuffle that I don't think intuition is essential for doing accurate readings. The readings done with "intuition" are just DIFFERENT to those done without "intuition". I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. In fact, the intuition could sometimes even lead to biased readings if one is not careful. (I suspect that we should start out by defining what Intuition is, because I would put my hand in the fire that not everyone is talking about the same thing when they use this term - as so frequently occurs when people talk to each other. We should have a dictionary at the top of each forum.) I personally would hate to see masculine readings become like feminine readings, and feminine readings becoming like masculine readings. It would make things so uniform. (I edited this sentence, because I had written at first: "women's readings" and "men's readings", but reckoned I would have people accusing me of sexism or something, or even much worse ... political incorrectness .... and who knows where such a discussion would lead us to.) I do believe that most women are more intuitive than men, and I believe it has nothing to do with social conditioning. (For those who tend to skim through posts quickly before replying , I repeat that I said "most" women are more intuititive than men, and not "all" women are more intuititive than men.)

NightWing	30 Nov 2004
In my experience, some women are less intuitive than others. Some men are more intuitive than others. So is there a natural "spectrum" of intuitiveness whereon perhaps more women than men are at the "Extremely Intuitive" end, and more men than women are at the "Extremely Non-intuitive" end? This would imply that most of us fall on the spectrum line somewhere in between. It would also imply that some women are less intuitive than some men, and that some men are more intuitive than some women. Does this make intuition a natural faculty like hearing or eyesight, with individual differences, and (perhaps) culturally determined differences (due to "practice"), but no real differences that are determined by gender? Or am I being overly simplistic here?

MystiqueMoonlight	02 Dec 2004
Men are no less intuitive than they are paternal. I believe men in western society have been conditioned (mostly by the plastic world we live in) to be the provider yet not be the provider. To be the husband yet not. To be authoritive, yet not have control. Look inside yourself. Feel the being that is you and forget about the "moral" socialogical conditioning of your sexuality. The simple fact is men are men and women are women, at least physically anyway. Our soul or "self" are a more realistic being. :)

Satori	04 Dec 2004
The funny thing about the conversation is that it is like a dog chasing it's tail. It doesn't matter what sex the dog is....it still chases it's tail. Some dogs do, chase their tail that is, and some dogs don't. Why do they do it? Because no matter what thread I've read about intuition it comes back to the same conversation about intuition. And while I agree with Diana that a definition of terms would help, there is another mad dash around the infinity symbol...because no one agrees about the definition either. I think ultimately we know that men and women are indeed different. Some of us have more intuitive "muscle", others either find a way to develop it or they find ways to get a similar result using other methods. The path is different but the destination, yes, the destination is pretty much the same. That isn't to say the readings we would do would be the same. They wouldn't and smleite came up with the best answer to why that is that I've ever read over on our new Marseilles sub-forum on the reading exchange. it is so good a post that I think it should be a sticky, but that is me. And sorry to say I can't remember which thread it is hidden away inside of. But it's worth finding.....

Moongold	04 Dec 2004
Why not put a link to Schleite's post here, elf? Sorry, I just looked back and saw that you didn't remember where it was. I wonder at the point of the discussion, after thinking about it some more. What does it really matter? Not denigrating the original post at all, just wondering where the question leads anyone. People can develop their intuition if they wish, and their are various levels of intuition. And intuitive souls know that intuition fluctuates often for different reasons. Tarot is not the only medium through people can demonstrate or practice intuition. :) Edited: I noticed after writing this post that Flavio was asking HOW male readers actually connected with their intuition, not commenting on whether intuition was more common in females or males. I was addressing the latter question in my post. Lost sight of the original question !

Thirteen	04 Dec 2004
Are you ready for the single most ironic thing about this whole discussion? You said you're using 78-Degrees of Wisdom by Rachel Pollock as your textbook, yes? Heh. Rachel was born a man. I forget exactly when he became a she, but she lived for quite a while in that man's body before having her operation. Which makes Elf's comment about wearing high heels a little too apt. I suppose Rachel would say that she was always as she, and therefore her female intuition was always there even while she was locked in a man's body. But it does make one wonder if she could have ever have been seen as an intuitive male instead. Gender...is a very interesting subject. Research shows that what we are, an inuitive male, a logical female, a man's-man or a woman's-woman, is often decided by chemicals in the womb. This means that we know from very, very early on which gender we really are, and which gender attracts us sexually. You may recall a boy with ambiguous genitals who, after an operation, was raised a girl--but spent his life insisting that he was a boy and eventually got things straightened out. We KNOW, and how we're raised, the society and culture, can only do so much to convince us otherwise. That's not to say that parents/society/culture have no influence on us. But in regards to sex and gender, what we are will out--and what we are has a lot of permutations. In short, I think any male who picks up a deck of tarot cards and wants to learn them already has plenty of intuition and knows how to connect to it. Why else would he be drawn to tarot cards instead of, say, fixing cars? Years of social-cultural constraints and being raised by non-intuitive males may have cuttered the path to that intuition, but it's always been there and still is.

northsea	05 Dec 2004
I don't know if anyone already brought this up, but there's the Myers-Briggs thinking versus feeling ...which basically men are assigned as thinkers and women as feelers, and then there is the sensing versus intuitive. The intuitive is about 1/3 of people, but not as lopsided toward the women. Men can be intuitive (and even feeling), too. I'm fairly intuitive, but not psychic in the sense of knowing who's gonna win the football game in advance, or when people are going to call me, or reading tea leaves. Then again, the MB intuitive involves being a thinker versus doer which doesn't necessarily involve the right brain. And wouldn't the sensing type be the right-brained one since they are observant of sensory data. Huhmmm...

Hermit 78	05 Dec 2004
Similarities and differences between the sexes are kind of a hot-button issue these days, and I certainly don't want to say anything offensive, but I think the reason why women usually give (and get) more accurate tarot tarot readings is because they are less bound (culturally? Biologically? Who knows?) to a linear mode of thought. I find that men tend to desperately search for 1:1 corelations between cards and events, and get caught up in and overly distracted by things like time signification (past, future, etc.) or upright vs. reversed cards. It has been my experience that women, while they usually take these factors into account, can arrive at an overall "impression" of the spread (thus deducing its axiom/theme/whatever) by intuition or nonlinear "mushroom" logic, while many men must perform a process much closer to hard calculation in order to arrive at the same conclusion. I would not necessarily say this puts men (or anyone else, as these tendencies are not strictly bound by any definition of gender or sex) at a disadvantage. Intuition is one of the most important aspects of "esoteric" or non-ordinary experience, but I would argue that hard work, dedication, and a disciplined and innovative system of quantifying and qualifying "reality" are just as important. I would even say that much of the reason New Ageism, Neo-Shamanism, esotericism, Jungian psychoanalysis, chemgnosis, the Tarot, and lots of beautiful and valid ideas are laughed at and scorned by a mouth-breathing academic majority is because of the tendency of the proponents of these ideas to rely on "intuitive" language, sloppy reasoning, faulty assumptions, and poor and lazy communication skills. I am not pointing at any person in particular, but anyone who has been reading cards for his/herself and/or others for a while will tell you that it is very easy to get an "accurate" reading if one has a good imagination and a loose definition of accuracy. As a man, you should try hard to get to know your feminine and intuitive side (if you find it meaningful to equate these things within your own subjective position). We are all wonderfully complex and unique beings, and each of us must find our own ways of drawing conclusions about our inner and outer worlds. You might find it useful to research the jungian concepts of "animus" and "anima," or to search your own tarot spreads for a clue as to how you might better develop your intuitive skills. Good luck, and sorry if I talked your ear off or if I sounded prescriptive and overblown. I sit around thinking about this stuff way too much.

mac22	05 Dec 2004
[quote=Flavio] [center]How other male readers connected with its intuitive side and developed it?[/center] well I have been seeing auras, fairies & such for as far back as I can remember. Been reading cards for 30+ yrs...:)

mzoltarp	06 Dec 2004
I find this to be a fascinating discussion. There is a lot of truth in the differences between men and women reading differently based on how boys and girls are raised and socialized differently. I think men in general are problem solvers. As a married man, one of my most difficult lessons to learn was when my wife would bring me a problem and would expect me to listen but not to jump in and solve it. She wants to express her feelings in that instance and nothing more. She is also a tarot reader. If I bring up a problem to her I expect her to weigh in and help me problem solve. When I read I try to figure out the mystery of the cards as they come up (ie to problem solve). It's like I need to find the key first in order to have any feeling about the reading. I think men are more likely to read from the specific to the general (problem/issue then to emotion) and women tend to read from the general to the specific. Both have merit and both sexes can learn from each other as we become more adept in our talents. I also find myself to be spatially oriented in that how the cards lay in relation to each other often draws my attention to a certain part of the celtic cross (for example) instead of starting at the significator.

Imagemaker	06 Dec 2004
Quote: When I read I try to figure out the mystery of the cards as they come up (ie to problem solve). It's like I need to find the key first in order to have any feeling about the reading. Welcome to AT! In this statement you've captured something I've noticed here by the people who emphasize definitions and systems in their tarot study. Men seem drawn to the structure and precedent to provide evidence for accuracy. "Prove your statement" has brought us far along a line of successful western scientific growth, and now perhaps we need to move into another realm of intuitive growth, which cannot always follow the same proof model. In this realm women seem more comfortable in allowing the validity of sudden intuitive knowing.

Flavio	06 Dec 2004
Thirteen wrote: Are you ready for the single most ironic thing about this whole discussion? I'm spechless... This thread has developed in a very interesting way, many helpful advice and enlighting comments, maybe as you said the only fact to be already into Tarot is a way to start my way into intuition development, probably pushing myself a lot at this stage but hopefully the information on this thread will help me adjust my expectations and become as much intuitive as I can be.

dadsnook2000	06 Dec 2004
I was surprised to see this thread still going on. OK. I'll add a story or two of my own even though I posted much earlier. When I was a very young adult I was deeply into chess, engineering, etc. At one job there was an older man who wore one of eight ties, day in and day out. Over the years he never threw one away or acquired another one. I started to guess each morning which tie he would be wearing that day. After awhile I was close to perfect in my guesses. Then I dropped chess as it had become an obsession -- I was into blindfold chess (could play and win up to 8 games at once). I took up astrology and my intuitive abilities exploded. Then, tarot. I was told by a physic with world-wide credentials, who had never met me before, to drop the tarot as I was to imaginative and wait until I matured some more. That was in the mid 1970's. Obviously I'm not waiting anymore. I've observed two primary types of tarot reading -- those who lay out a spread and go by the book, and those who just drop cards and say what comes to mind. Of course, there are shades of variation between these two types. 30 years of astrological study have shown me the value of a disciplined approach before cutting loose with intuition. I frame the querent's question, choose and explain the spread to be used, lay the cards and read the cards. Only after this do I generally let intuition loose. This hybrid approach has worked well for me. Dave.

Thirteen	06 Dec 2004
dadsnook2000 wrote: Then I dropped chess as it had become an obsession -- I was into blindfold chess (could play and win up to 8 games at once). I took up astrology and my intuitive abilities exploded. That's really fascinating. Looking back, do you see any relation at all between chess playing and astrology/tarot--or are they completely different sides of the brain (i.e., engineering vs. modern art, say)? What's of interest to me, as I mentioned back in my post, are the permutations of Gender. We accept certain societal norms--most of which are artifical, but some which are not. Artifical ones, for example, have included things like women not being able to do certain male jobs. True if we're talking upper body strength, but not if we're talking about, say, being a doctor. Valid differences include things like male reliance on a pecking order--which is why Male bosses usually maintain completely control, acting the part of alpha male. Women rely on groups, which means that a female boss is more likely to delagate. We also accept as the norm that women are more social than men and usually better at reading non-verbal signals (body language). But there are always those that break such "norms" and not often in the expected way. Tomboys and "sensitive" men are expected, if not accepted. But what about classic computer nerds? These are *not* sensitive or "feminine" men, yet they're far from being sterotypical men. But they're far from being female either. They're all male brain in how they work out problems, see and live in the world. And what about that percentage of people, more than we think, who are truely androgenous? Ambiguous not only in genitals, but down to their chromosomes? What is the norm for them in how they think? Autistic children, as well as those with Asperger's syndrome are predominately male--are these extreme males, at a complete loss when it comes to more "female" aspects like being social and reading body language? I don't have any answers. I just find it all very interesting. And I think that there are more varieties of "gender" than we think--and by that I mean gender as created in the womb. Society's job is to try to create a norm, but the more flexable that norm--and we are a good deal more flexable now than 50 years ago--the more varieties in gender become apparent.

dadsnook2000	06 Dec 2004
Interesting question about chess versus astrology/tarot. At first, chess was very much a logical "if I do this my opponent will do that, then I'll . . ." type of process. My chess ranking was relatively low during that phase. Then three things happend. First, I read a book (published in the Netherlands) that recounted the thoughts of Botvinik and Larsen (two grand masters at that time) who wore microphones during a match. This book showed that they did not think in the logical way that I did but followed another process. Second, I was co-director and organizer of the 1970 US Open in Boston and got to spend a lot of late hours with grand masters from all over the world. That showed me another view of chess playing. Third, I took private lessons from a local expert/master who rearranged my way of thinking -- within months I was winning against master-level players. These three steps all took me away from a logical approach to a more intuitive and underlying appreciation of other ways of seeing and making decisions. As for your interest in gender-related attributes I can tell you that my experience in astrology indicates that you cannot tell gender from a chart. Yes, there are books that say you can. There are Indian or Vedic systems that say you can (and I can't speak to them), and many postulated systems for prediciting when a baby will be born and what gender it will be based on complex rules and guidelines. I haven't ever seen any of them work to the degree that I would follow them and boldly make statements about gender and birth time. However, the chart and the system is what it is, not what we want it to be. We choose to be sensitive to some things in our charts and we ignore other things. The job of the astrologer is to determine what works, what doesn't, and then use what works for the benefit of the client. There are other influences than the astrological chart as anyone would appreciate if they have read materials such as the many Seth books by Jane Roberts or the Celestine Prophecy books by James Redfield or any of the very many other information sources out there. As tarot explorers, we see clues in every reading we do. So, I enjoy your thoughts and your questions, as I suspect the others on the list do. Good talking with you. Dave.

gareth.	07 Dec 2004
I did a reading for you and wasnt it fairly accurate especially about you.When I last checked I was still male.G

crazelion	11 Apr 2005
I have seen some men reading tarot cards at psychic fairs and they is very good. The New Earth Festival that I go to has male reader that is excellent. I think it's great that you is male reader.

tarotbear	11 Apr 2005
male here ~ Rachel Pollack is a transsexual? The problem is that I never could see how being intuitive has anything to do with your gentitalia. You are or you are not intuitive. Merely being a female does not give you qualities that another person being male does not have. Intuition is in your brain .. and your conditioning. You are victims of societal pressures that start in the delivery room - let's put pink knit hats on the girls and blue knit hats on the boys in the nursery. Do you know may people never think of a G.I. Joe action figure as a 'doll for boys'? Men are taught to analyse things from an early age. Tinker, tinker, take it apart and put it back together. The comment about little boys playing with their toy cars and making rules contrasting with the girls making imaginary worlds out of their dollies is very apt. "Math' does not use your imagination to get an answer ~ numbers are concrete things. So, what happened to poor Flavio? In his classes he is dealing with tarot exactly as he has been brought up all his life -- find the answer, find the right size this, turn the bolt that way ... etc. The fact that he took a class in Tarot says a lot about the fact that he is trying to think outside the box ... something men don't do. I have no idea what kind of background he came from, but I am sure he was astounded by the women in his class 'breezing' through doing the readings becasue they weren't being held back by conditioning. A long time ago, a teacher - and I think MeeWah - told me that I tended to 'overintellectualize' when I did a reading. It's hard for men to overcome that. But we were 'trained' to deal with everything that way ~ it didn't come with our voices deepening and facial hair sprouting.

muteswan	12 Apr 2005
In the stained glass studio, I heard a story about a student a few years back who was totally colour-blind. When he wanted to pick glass for a panel, he had to show them to someone to judge if they went together, as he only selected for shading and glass texture. He didn't let this stop him from working, and instead, focused on pattern and line. The result was dramatic, uniquely blending panels that only he could have created, albeit with some help. He was able to see the art totally differently because he had a "disability". A difficulty in any field can be made into a strength with the right attitude and dedication. You may not have their intuition, but instead you can focus on research and image-association while developing that intuition, and may end up the better for it. :) Whatever you do, don't give up!

Tsuzuki	12 Apr 2005
We men are naturally intuitive too, we just call them "hunches". It's basically the same thing.

Emeraldgirl	12 Apr 2005
2 of the 3 people who I feel most "connected" to are men and one of them blows me away all the time with his intuition. We often sit together and do readings when we are having difficulties in life and although he's never read a book on tarot and I am in the process of re-learning tarot we come up with very similar things. He has great intuition. The other person is my partner and he has a great danger senser he just knows when to look out for things. Like he'll say be careful the next few days and usually he's right (I also get these feelings but don't usually pay much attention I know big smacks for me) . He doesn't read cards but I'm sure if he did he'd be great if only he had the urge to try it.

Ahria	12 Apr 2005
The best tarot card reader I have ever been to was male - his name is Frank, and he changed or helped change my life in alot of ways. When ever I feel my life is in turmoil I still go to him.

Indigo Rose	12 Apr 2005
tarotbear wrote: male here ~ ... but I am sure he was astounded by the women in his class 'breezing' through doing the readings becasue they weren't being held back by conditioning. A long time ago, a teacher - and I think MeeWah - told me that I tended to 'overintellectualize' when I did a reading. It's hard for men to overcome that. But we were 'trained' to deal with everything that way ~ it didn't come with our voices deepening and facial hair sprouting. Female here~my son is just about to turn 18. I introduced him to Tarot in 2001 at the age of 14. He immediately took to it and was amazingly intuitive. He is sensitive by nature, artistic, and very emotional at times. However, he is the product of modern American culture and the pressure to "be a man". As he went through his teens he disconnected from the Tarot and was focused on friends, fitting in, and being "cool". However, he has started reading again and I am amazed at his intuitive abilities. He is a natural at Tarot reading. My husband doesn't read Tarot, but accepts my interest in it. There have been times I have engaged him in Tarot discussions and worked through some readings with him; he also prooved to be quite intuitive. I believe what has been said in this thread about conditioning and society are correct. Male or Female we all have the ability to be intuitive; some of us more naturally than others for a myriad of reasons(astrological placements, numerological factors, life experience, culture...etc..). I think we all have to learn to let go and feel our way through in order to reach the intuitive self. Blessings, Indigo Rose :)

Khatruman	12 Apr 2005
noby wrote: You know, I can't help but wonder how much of the "women are more intuitive" thing is just a matter of hype and conditioning. It seems to me that it's simply more acceptable in our culture for women to talk about how something makes them feel, or having a hunch about something. Men are expected to be rational and authoritative, to back up impressions and statements with scientific evidence and tradition. This is the crux of the matter in a nutshell: conditioning. Traditional roles have women as the more empathic, taking care of the needs of the family, so therefore they are taught to develop intuitive thinking. Men, traditionally, must be strong and in command. Developing intuition is a matter of hearing the correct "voice" in your head. It is the simple, non-judgmental voice that makes suggestions as to the meaning of things, as opposed to the ego voice that demands right and wrong. It is a matter of listening to it, and trusting it. If you haven't used it, it will be very weak, maybe just a whisper. That's because if the intuitive voice is not heeded, it simply fades away, as if saying, "OK, I've made my suggestion. If you do not wish to hear, I will simple fade off into a corner." The intuitive voice will not demand its correctness. It will not attempt to prove itself or convince you. It will make simple statements. You may choose to ignore its statements, and it will nod and fade away, but if you listen it will get stronger, louder. But you still must simply trust it, beyond logic, you must trust what it has to say. Doesn't that sound like tarot? I think the females in your group did well not only because they are more in tune with their intuition, but because they did not finish reading the book!!! Though Pollack is good, her ideas as set in as definitions in that book. To define is to place a limit. It takes out trust and intuition. Put down 78 Degrees of Wisdom and look at the cards before you, and listen to what comes into your head, what whispers through the back of your mind. Does that help?

Tarot Boy	12 Apr 2005
Alot of what has been told to me, is listen to your instinct before any description a book can give you. I too believe that set descriptions limit what the cards can tell you. This is what I might suggest - I did this for half the deck (and I still need to finish the other half). I pick up a card and look at it. I read the description in the book, and after that, I looked at the card and saw the images it was presenting. Think of the card as a question... What is your first idea or thought when you look at this card? What stands out? Why does this particular part or image on the card stand out to you? hat might this image symbolize and how does it relate to the rest of the card? When you get a train of thought going as to what the card means to YOU at this very point in time, then try to figure out what question the card is asking you. Essentially, every card is asking "What do *I* mean to *YOU* at this very second?" This is an exercise that I used to not only get aquainted with my deck and the images, but to find out what my inner workings were like. Keep asking yourself questions, until you have TRULY answered the CARD'S question... What answer is the card looking for, and what answer can you offer it? Only can your instincts answer, and by reaching the very depths of yourself, you must ask lots of questions to lead you there.

The Question to all male readers (Ladies suggestions accepted ) thread was originally posted on 16 Nov 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.