Readings for People Who Aren't There...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Tallyboo	13 Nov 2004
No. They aren't dead. But they could be someone you really like that you want to know how they feel about you. Can you do that? Is it recommended? Can the cards reveal someone else's true feelings or what you'd like their feelings to be? Or *your* feelings about them?

TheLovers2	14 Nov 2004
Tallyboo wrote: No. They aren't dead. But they could be someone you really like that you want to know how they feel about you. Can you do that? Is it recommended? Can the cards reveal someone else's true feelings or what you'd like their feelings to be? Or *your* feelings about them? You know, I can't say whether it is "recommended" but, it's something I do often. It seems that besides Reading for myself, I'm quite often picking up the cards to ask a question about how someone feels about me. (Usually a particular someone) and of course, if I meet someone new I may ask about that person. "Can the cards reveal a person's "true feelings?" Well . . . I'd expect revelation from the cards concerning this as I would any other question I pose. How true, may depend on one's perception, belief in what they feel the cards are pointing to, etc. I would prefer not to have the cards reveal to me just what I want to hear, however, nice that might be. :D Now, I think asking what my "deepest" feelings are, say, on a subconscious level concerning someone, might be a really good question. I may do that one tonight. There is someone I ask about from time to time -- I sort of check now and then to see if "anything" is changing whether for better or for worse. Sometimes, situations are delicate and one might not want to go directly to the source and say, "Ok. What exactly are you thinking/feeling today?" Sometimes, I guess even if a person does do that, they may be suspicious concerning the answer they're given. For example: If a person feels that their significant other is no longer responding the same, they may want to know if this person's feelings have changed. Well, they may ask the individual, but, if that person is cheating or just doesn't want to be honest, then the cards will come in quite handy. I said all of that to say a resounding, "YES! BY ALL MEANS." In my opinion, anyway. *********************** Oh, and I do wonder sometimes what the best method is for trying to get a handle on someone else's feelings about me. Sometimes, in trying to get an intimate, close Reading re: this, I'll have the person's picture nearby. I guess it gives me a feeling of connection for the Reading; although, I wouldn't think it would be necessary. I would be interested to know what others have to offer re: this. It is so different to me from having another person as "Querent." Also, I don't know if there is already a Thread addressing this, specifically. TL2 :TLOVE

WhiteRaven	15 Nov 2004
Well...I gotta tell you...there's another thread around here ALL about Ethics and there are quite a few that would disagree with you on this issue simply because if the other person does not know you are asking these questions about them...you are invading their personal privacy...their inner safe place and ask yourself this...would you like someone asking private questions about you without your knowledge? It's a question of the almighty "ethics" and what that means to you individually. Just remember that what you do to others can be also done to you...and think about whether you would like it. Just food for thought....

TheLovers2	15 Nov 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: Well...I gotta tell you...there's another thread around here ALL about Ethics and there are quite a few that would disagree with you on this issue simply because if the other person does not know you are asking these questions about them...you are invading their personal privacy...their inner safe place and ask yourself this...would you like someone asking private questions about you without your knowledge? It's a question of the almighty "ethics" and what that means to you individually. Just remember that what you do to others can be also done to you...and think about whether you would like it. Just food for thought.... Hmmm. There may be a Thread about Ethics, but, personally, I will go with my own sense of ethics. They have served me well. Now, of course, I don't desire to say what someone else should or shoudn't do concerning this. Also, I feel that psychics do this or something akin to it all the time. They get information about people that the Querent wants to know about and so do Readers. I see no ethical dilemma simply because I am the Querent. We are always asking questions about "people" and we do not have "their permission." Who checks with a boyfriend or their supervisor at work or anyone else for that matter before asking for a Reading pertaining to that person? I don't know of anyone who does that. It seems that we disagree and that is fine with me. I hope that it is fine with you, as well. :) It does not bother me in the least if someone "asks questions about me via a Reading." It's rather what Readings are for. As for "asking personal questions without my knowledge," well . . . I don't want to flatter myself that it's happening a lot, but, I'm sure it's happened. If someone wants to do a Reading, what is that to me? I am not in control of what others do -- only myself. Again, it is not an issue to me. TL2 :TLOVE

WhiteRaven	15 Nov 2004
Exactly...and just to let you know I voted "no". The point of my post was to allow someone to see someone elses point of view. Looking at it at an angle from someone that can't talk for themselves so to speak. Individually, we all have our OWN ethics...doesn't mean we fit under the same list. But you ARE aware that if a person does NOT want his/her privacy to be invaded that there are ways, if one is up on such things, to block people out and you or I or anyone else on this planet won't be able to get through that block...and yes...Christians are very capable of doing that as well...it's all about grounding oneself and visualization. Something all Tarot Readers should put into practice seeing that we are sponges to different energies around us. Some more food for thought. :)

closrapexa	15 Nov 2004
Well, I don't know about ethics exactly, since to me the question is not one of ethics but of the inherent capabilities of Tarot. I don't see it as a fail-safe oracle that can tell me everything there is to know. Usually when I find myself in a position where I am asked to read if somebody else fancies the querent or myself, the results don't read the mind of the other person. The center on what I should do to win their affections, or whether it is feasible or reccomended that I pursue them at all. About the ethics, well, rules were made to be broken. If I have the so-called "power" to gain knowledge, well, I'll do it. Its what we do with the knowledge that falls into the territory of right and wrong.

jmd	15 Nov 2004
There appears to be a number of related issues in this - the one being whether or not Tarot revelations can penetrate beyond the veil of acceptable privacy, and another on the very nature of ethics. On this second aspect, what quite a number of threads have made me realise over the past couple of years is that there certainly are apparent wide views as to what is considered ethical and what not. I personally do not agree that ethics are (or arises out of) 'rules' - so they are not there to be broken. Ethical considerations are about entering the realm at hand, and understanding its ethical dimensions. With regards to doing readings for others who are not necessarily present, I personally agree that the very nature of the question the querent brings (and why s/he has that question) forms part of the ethical merit. I personally do not have any concerns about a parent or friend doing a reading, for example, about someone who is otherwise out of contact due to wide and wild bushfires which have destroyed other means of contact in the area (the Sydney surrounding fires of a couple of years ago certainly made it virtually impossible to remain in contact with those working to control those fires for quite some time). ...but I will want to take the time to write a smallish discussion paper on this very issue, I think...

Moongold	15 Nov 2004
Perhaps it is naivety on my part but I do not believe that the Tarot would provide information about me or anyone else that would be harmful, or that could not, eventually be obtained in some other way. I don't see that it would automatically be ethically incorrect to do a reading about someone. It would depend on the intention. I personally believe that readings wihout good intention don't have integrity anyway. And a lot depends on what one does with the reading. A public reading about a public political figure is a little different from a public reading about a private member of Aeclectic, for example. I guess this is JMD's hypothesis that each situation carries its own ethical dimensions.

ribbitcat	15 Nov 2004
TheLovers2 wrote: We are always asking questions about "people" and we do not have "their permission." Who checks with a boyfriend or their supervisor at work or anyone else for that matter before asking for a Reading pertaining to that person? I don't know of anyone who does that. Hi TL2 - What questions are "we" always asking about people without their permission ? I have never done a reading about someone without their permission - if I wanted to know how somone felt about me , or whatever , I prefer a more direct approach - I ask them :-) To ask in a reading what they felt about me I think would be unethical - at least if I ask the person outright , they have a choice as to what information they give me . I also doubt whether anyone would read about me (I'm not that interesting LOL), but I certainly would feel uncomfortable thinking that someone might do this without having the manners and courtesy to ask me first - what I think/feel about someone/you is *my* business , not theirs/yours . And I believe that the same proverb as for eavesdropping might well apply ie. you never hear good of yourself . I also wonder about the motives behind asking questions about someone , without their knowledge . However , I think it is acceptable to ask , what do I need to know about X or , what effect will X have in my life ...as these questions are focussed on *me* . ribbitcat

lark	15 Nov 2004
humm very interesting thread. As I read for many people in a weeks time this comes up most everyday. 90% if the time during a reading information will come through about people not present at the reading. I always convey the information and go deeper into it if asked to do so. How do I know this is ethical for me? Because often the info. comes through without the client even asking a question. And contrary to being harmful it usually is a comfort to my client or a confirmation of something they already felt intuitively. I trust the cards and that is the bottom line. I have no hesitation in reading about someone not present in my professional or private readings. It has never to my knowledge harmed anyone and I know it has in many instances helped people greatly.

TheLovers2	15 Nov 2004
[quote=ribbitcat]Hi TL2 - What questions are "we" always asking about people without their permission ? I have never done a reading about someone without their permission - if I wanted to know how somone felt about me , or whatever , I prefer a more direct approach - I ask them :-) ************************* Well, rabbitcat, it's like I mentioned in my earlier post, it is not always convenient to get an answer directly about the person in question. Sometimes, the person is inaccessible. Sometimes, simply because they are human, they may choose not to be honest about a thing. You see in my opinion, if a person is having trouble with their supervisor at work and they want to know more about the situation, person, why the person is harassing them, etc., then in the Reading there may be things that come up about said supervisor. I am certainly not going to get on a phone and call that person up and ask their permission to be included in my Querent's Reading. Nor do I expect the Querent to do that. Come on, now. :) I am going to share what I get in the cards, period. I, too, like lark have found no harm in this; it has helped and often opened up more understanding for the Querent. Now, when it comes to me wanting to know about a new person in my life, you'd best believe I feel I have every right to "check them out" with my cards. Why wouldn't I use this very special tool that I have to help me with insight into this individual. There have been times when I have had a certain "feeling" about someone I've met, done a Reading about what type of person "they really are" (unfortunately, people are not all well-intentioned) and what they really want from me, only to find the cards confirmed my initial impression. I am learning to trust my Readings about this; especially, when it comes to possible relationships. ******************* Quote: To ask in a reading what they felt about me I think would be unethical - at least if I ask the person outright , they have a choice as to what information they give me . I also doubt whether anyone would read about me (I'm not that interesting LOL), but I certainly would feel uncomfortable thinking that someone might do this without having the manners and courtesy to ask me first - what I think/feel about someone/you is *my* business , not theirs/yours . And I believe that the same proverb as for eavesdropping might well apply ie. you never hear good of yourself . ******************* Again, a direct approach is not always best. I remember someone posting about whether a particular guy is interested in her. Perhaps, she did not feel comfortable just going up to him and saying, "Hi. I've got the hots for you. How do you feel about me?" Duh. People are shy and no one likes to be rejected. So, I think this person did a Reading or asked about a Reading about whether this guy might view her in that light or something to that effect. I don't see a thing wrong with that. I am respectful, I respect the cards -- I don't see the cards as an exact science and often, I find the cards to reveal much more meaningful information in a well-rounded way than one might first suspect based upon the question. That's my take on it. I don't want to be redundant and I think I've explained where I'm coming from. To each his own, though. I have no problem with your view. It is simply different from mine in this. :) **************************** Quote: I also wonder about the motives behind asking questions about someone , without their knowledge . ***************************** Motives? Information because of a concern of some sort. I am not here to judge every Querent's motivation, however. I think if a Reader feels something is strange or whatever, then there are ways according to your "individual ethics, principles, personality," etc. to address that. ****************************** Quote: However , I think it is acceptable to ask , what do I need to know about X or , what effect will X have in my life ...as these questions are focussed on *me* . ***************************** Exactly and that is often how the question is posed. Either way, to me, that is a question that is focused on BOTH people - the Querent, as well as the person they are asking about. Perhaps, this is a matter of how one might interpret the question. Again, if I ask "What do I need to know about xyz, potential love interest," then, in my opinion, even though the question is for my benefit, it is ultimately about them and how they will relate to me. I think this is a stimulating discussion and I'm glad it's on the Boards for people to ponder for themselves, especially, as there are always those of us new to Tarot, as well as old timers. :) TL2 :TLOVE

shelikes2read	15 Nov 2004
It's all about the intent. In the thread "Reading for the President", which I think is in the "Your Readings" forum, jmd and I discussed this with the example of looking into a neighbor's window. I used the example that reading for someone without their consent, with the intent of "spying" on them, is wrong, just as it would be wrong to look into a neighbor's window with the intention of disregarding their right to privacy. Jmd, correctly IMO, offered a different example: if one has an elderly neighbor who hasn't been seen nor answered their phone in a few days' time, it would NOT be wrong to look into that neighbor's window if the intent was to check on their well-being and see if there's any evidence that they need help. But to my mind, it all comes down to not only WHAT was being done, but WHY. Someone who deliberately tries to spy on another person by looking into their window has done something wrong, IMO, even if they saw nothing that violated the other person's privacy. Why? Because they MEANT to violate the other person's privacy when they looked in. On the other hand, someone whose intent was to check on their neighbor's well-being is NOT wronging their neighbor by looking in the window, even if they see something more personal than they'd expected in the process. I feel the same way about Tarot readings. If someone's just trying to "dig up dirt" on another person and doing a reading, then IMO even if their results are entirely incorrect, they still were abusing their ability to read Tarot because of WHY they did the reading. But if someone's doing a third-party reading with the intent of gaining HELPFUL insight, that they can use in a constructive manner when they interact with that person, I can't bring myself to call THAT an invasion of privacy. To me, that's what readings are supposed to provide -- constructive insight. JMO, your mileage may vary, and all that good stuff. :)

earthlady	17 Nov 2004
If you are the one shuffling the cards, aren't your vibrations, your expectations, your presumptions present in your spread? I don't believe that I can violate someone's privacy by any spread that my hands deal. When I first learned, I learned that if the question is about someone else, give that person the cards to shuffle. I had one person ask me about her daughter. The daughter was not present, but I got the feeling that the querent wanted to know about herself and her relationship with the daughter. When I finished, the person thanked me, and said that I'd been pretty accurate. I believe that I only told her what she already knew and the cards got the information directly from her. My readings don't always include the querent shuffling the cards, but certainly their presence (physical or psychic) and the question is what drives the spread. Besides, we all have free will. Whatever my spread indicates today could be gone tomorrow. Nothing is in stone-- E.

The Readings for People Who Aren't There... thread was originally posted on 13 Nov 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.