About the Tarot Gods....Again

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Phoenix	06 Dec 2004
The previous post from TemperanceAngel got me thinking about people's perceptions regarding tarot and the god(s). This is something that I've thought about for a while now, and was curious about other schools of thought on this. Who here believes that there is actually a god that rules over the tarot? Why? What led you to believe this? For me, I can't follow this notion. Don't ask me why, but I just can't. I don't believe that there is a god that rules over it, influencing each reading. I believe that there are gods who rule over prophecy and divination, but I don't think that there's one that rules over someting specific as tarot. I feel that a deity can speak through the cards, but consistantly guide each reading, over and over, for everyone in the world? Of course, on the other hand, I also read the runes, and practice Asatru. I have a close affinity to the Norse gods. Each rune is associated with a god. However, I am not sure if each of those gods influence a reading. So it seems kinda like a doube standard in a way. I personally call upon Odin for each rune cast, but that is more for guidance and clarity than anything else. But I don't see him as some "Rune God" although I do consider him the great rune master. Does anyone see where I am fgoing with this? As you can see, I am still pondering this. What are your thoughts?

emillkim	07 Dec 2004
Hi phoenix I'm of a different mind. I can't imagine that spiritual practices to have different and individual deities assigned to each of them. It reduces a sublime practice into something bureaucratic. Like there is a Shiva of car repair or a Loki of card tricks. Not that I don't think there are spiritual creatures who have certain responsibilities...I just don't think it's that stratified (one for each card, one for every aspect and turn). But I'm not sure (who can be really?) I'm of the mind that there is a spiritual realm that we are in touch with. We all have essence of the divine. When are minds are busy and anxious we are sealed away from this 'collective.' This collective is diverse and has 'power' of many sorts. (more of asian/jungian perspective). that's my two cents. -E

TemperanceAngel	07 Dec 2004
I believe in Gods/esses, but not Tarot Gods. I have my angels and guides working with me when I am reading, not Tarot gods.

Mesara	07 Dec 2004
I don't think Ive heard anyone make a reference to the Tarot Gods that was meant to be taken seriously, but Im sure they exist for some people. Some probably go as far to appoint their own chosen deity as God/Goddess/whatever of the Tarot, and believe that their readings are guided by such. I don't think of it that way, but I have been thinking about *entities* of the Tarot, and wondering about their existence (as in, if I believe they exist at all), and what influence they might have on readings. By entities I mean spiritual embodiements of each of the cards, brought to power by our own belief and usage of the cards. Entities like The Fool, The Magician, The Empress, and so forth. This was all brought on by a dream I had in which The High Priestess came to whisk me away in her Chariot. A very symbolic dream, I know, that can be rationally explained by living and breathing tarot such as we all do here. But I can't help but wonder if I met *The actual* High Priestess in that dream, and also encountered the essence of The Chariot. Which, in turn, made me wonder if each card does, in fact, symbolize an entity that materializes through our connection with the Tarot. These are just formulations going on in my mind right now, nothing that I firmly believe in or take a solid stance on. Just ramblings in my head I guess. If nothing else, it is an interesting thought to entertain, even if I don't necessarily believe in it myself.

emillkim	07 Dec 2004
Although it can be dry as 3 day old bread in some places, The previous post has inspired me recommend "Hero with a thousand faces" by Joseph Campbell. This book is rather academic in tone but it is really rich in ideas (unlike lots of my old college and post grad books). It deals with the idea that our metaphors are shared across cultures in stories and that certain symbols are integral parts of human consciousness (or maybe our hard wired biology) regardless of our differences. (He uses both freudian and jungian structure to deconstruct myth, stories, and ideas) These so called archetypes are displayed beautifully in the major arcana. It really is a great read for the secular Tarot reader and the spiritually bent with a curious mind Emill PS: If anything, it makes watching star wars a profound experience ;)

TemperanceAngel	07 Dec 2004
I love that book, love it :D :D :D Just wanted to add to my previous post, that I also work with deities: God/esses if you please when I read, but they are not Tarot Gods... Thanks for the thread Phoenix :)

closrapexa	07 Dec 2004
I've been looking for that book! In a book about about Star Wars it was quoted extensively... Anyway, to the point, no, I don't beleive that there is a God especially devoted to Tarot. But then, I don't veleive i the abundance of Gods either. Yes, I "feel" if you will, the presence of a higher being, but I have always doubted that Tarot was some sort of message from the Gods. To my mind, Tarot is all about picking up energies that flow around us.

Eco74	07 Dec 2004
I like this thread. :D I'm into the idea that the 'all-encompassing-energy' that flows around us is really just one gigantic source of spirituality/emotion/live etc. and that the individual gods/goddesses are aspects of this source that makes it more focused and more possible for "us mere mortals" to cope with the strength of the energyflow. Regardless of the name and title I choose, and wether I decide to call it 'guardian of the tarot', 'goddess of love' or 'god of thunder' it all goes back to the same source and the same energy. For me it works the same with the Tarot. The Tarot is a whole, made up of many paths and many aspects, and it would not be the same all-encompassing whole if the parts were not all there. This is somewhat illustrated in the book "Galactic pot healer" by Philip K Dick where we are taught that no whole is greater than its parts. But then, this is just the way I see it and this is yet another of these little parts that make up the whole that makes this community what it is... I do believe I will get my hands on "Hero with a thousand faces" aswell. Love that kind of thinking.. :)

WalesWoman	07 Dec 2004
oh me oh my, I think I'll just wait until one taps me on the shoulder and then form an opinion. Part of me believes there is something greater than we are, but whether it's interested in us beyond mere curiosity is another thing. Most of me feels like the way I do about my grown up children, I care about them, but what they do on a daily basis is their own problem and I've got my life to manage, so I'm not paying a huge amount of attention to what they are up to unless they get mine by calling or something like that. I don't think there are Gods or Goddesses just for the Tarot, I think it's a universal thing and Tarot is just another way of understanding what it's all about.

Seed Crystal	07 Dec 2004
I don't see Tarot as the voice of a god or gods, even though I see images of goddesses, gods, and spirits in it; it's kind of neutral ground, for me, no one claims it, it is shared and has its own independent voice. .. You mention Asatru; you are probably more familiar with the Norse pantheon than I am; tell me, did Odin consult runes? Or did any of the deities? If they did or did not - makes one think, doesn't it?

Phoenix Rising	07 Dec 2004
Yes I don't think there is a Tarot God as such. But I think that "We are God" My Superconscious is my God, but it's not "outside of me" Intuition is our God, that little inner voice is My God speaking. Depends what you believe to be your God. But for years now I and millions of others have been searching for God, and I realise now, that I didn't have far to look. So my Superconscious or Subconscious directs the tarot, and it's how my little yellow brain, that little bit of Neo Cortex that just loves to muddle things up, Interprets the images.

WolfSpirit	07 Dec 2004
Although I like reading stories about gods and goddesses, and they ring true to me, in the sense that they can teach me something, and are part of the cultural heritage of a people, I don't invoke or pray to gods or goddesses, I work with the one great divine natural force. So that makes the answer a no for me.

Fudugazi	07 Dec 2004
Phoenix wrote: The previous post from TemperanceAngel got me thinking about people's perceptions regarding tarot and the god(s). This is something that I've thought about for a while now, and was curious about other schools of thought on this. Who here believes that there is actually a god that rules over the tarot? Why? What led you to believe this? Apollo, of course, god of divination and clear sight. And he has a card - the Sun. Don't you smile and feel brighter when it comes up? Don't you suddenly "see" what it's all about? But then again, it could be Dionysos, the god of ecstasy and madness , because let's face it, tarot can make us both ecstatic and mad. Or it could be a more mysterious, uncanny, uncompromising - Hecate, Selene, the ancient ancient goddess adopted by the Greeks from Mesopotamia, the maiden, mother, crone, who sees all, suffers all, rejoices at all. Joyful and cruel, a lover, a seer, the soft moon and the hallucinogenic moon, who demands nothing less than our blood. She could rule tarot ;)

Nevada	07 Dec 2004
Specific and exclusive to Tarot? I don't think so. But I'm sure all the gods and goddesses smile on Tarot. :) I tend to think of Hecate as a guide between worlds, therefore somehow attuned to Tarot, but certainly not the only one I would look to when using the cards. And I'm not really a pagan. Not sure what I am, actually. Still searching, and enjoying the search too much to settle in one place. Is there a name for spiritual vagabonds? :D Nevada

Paradox	07 Dec 2004
[un]fortunately, I'm an atheist and think all prophecy is false or luck. I'll still use the Tarot though. Call me a hypocrite, but I make it work because I believe that the interpretation of the Tarot is the key. Ever notice how one day you'll read a card one way and completely differently the next, even in an identical situation. It shows how we are feeling at the moment, our desires, our fears, and it is in fact a roadmap into our brains.

Kiama	08 Dec 2004
Paradox wrote: [un] fortunately, I'm an atheist and think all prophecy is false or luck. I'll still use the Tarot though. Call me a hypocrite, but I make it work because I believe that the interpretation of the Tarot is the key. Ever notice how one day you'll read a card one way and completely differently the next, even in an identical situation. It shows how we are feeling at the moment, our desires, our fears, and it is in fact a roadmap into our brains. I'm a Pagan, though I don't believe in any supernatural deities - I see deities as anthropomorphizations of different aspects of our psyche - and I agree wholeheartedly with what Paradox said above. As far as I'm concerned, the cards could be completely random, but the key is that we somehow make a meaningful link between the cards before us, and the querent's life. However, to add to this, I heard a beautiful and very true (to me at least) saying the other day: [b]"The Goddess is found in our humanity, not outside us in the universe."[b] I'm paraphrasing a bit, but it gets across the message. The Gods are found in our humanity - in our helping of the querent, in our reading for them. So in a way, you could say that this is where the Gods of Tarot lie. Blessings, Kiama

Kit	08 Dec 2004
Tarot Gods? Well, I have been known to make up my own gods and goddess as I go along. If the notion of a Tarot God/dess helps you, then why not?! It doesn't quite sit right with me though. To me, tarot is intergrated into life, not a seperate aspect of it, so, for me, it does not need it's own God. If anything, to me the characters of the major arcana are the true tarot gods. After all, they are universally recognised spiritual characters. Nevada wrote: I'm not really a pagan. Not sure what I am, actually. Still searching, and enjoying the search too much to settle in one place. Is there a name for spiritual vagabonds? "Another Seeker!" (pointing to Nevada's Title) Seeking is beautiful and exciting! So is there a name for us Seekers? Spiritual vagabonds? Sounds like an equally fitting title to me! Raeven

Shade	09 Dec 2004
I usually dedicate any new deck to the Goddess (as in non-specific creatrix, divine source,life death and rebirth Starhawk) though when I began working with the Gay Tarot I deidcated it to Khonsu instead which I felt was more appropriate. I don't think there is a God/dess to rule over the tarot in the same way that Odin rules over the runes since he is credited with acquiring those and teaching them to humans. If I were to petition a deity to be a guide for tarot work I would probably work with either Thoth of Hermes, but even more likely their united version Hermes Trismegistus (Emerald Tablet). If I wanted somone more feminine I'd choose Promethea (from the Alan Moore comic series, I thik there are some fans of hers on this site) as she is connected with Thrice Great Hermes. But I would be working with her strictly as an archetype.

emillkim	09 Dec 2004
Hi I'm a spiritual vagrant like so many. My leanings are more towards an Eastern sensibility of understanding the world. I'm of the mind that God, the universe, Life force, collective unconscious, or whatever...permeates everything not just the Tarot. But the tarot is a focal point of this intangible energy. Just like incantations, intent, prayer, dreams, or curses. I think what is most important is having a strong faith and true joy in your respective beliefs and practice... A practice of love, not impending cosmic "smack-downs" It reminds me of two things Rumi (a Sufi poet) once wrote: I have a thirsty fish in me that can never find enough of what it’s thirsty for! Just because you can’t drink all that falls doesn’t mean you give up taking sips of rainwater. If the nut of the mystery can’t be held, at least let me touch the shell. -the tarot is the shell in my case- Just my two cents Emill

The About the Tarot Gods....Again thread was originally posted on 06 Dec 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.