Celtic Cross Confusion
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| mzoltarp |
11 Dec 2004 |
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I have a confusion about two cards in the Celtic Cross. The "past" and "future" cards on either side of the crossing are in which order? Some books show the left card as the past and others it is the future. What gives? Help!
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| HudsonGray |
11 Dec 2004 |
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Most of the time things move from left to right - past to future - like you're reading a book. I know there are a lot of variants on the CC, but I'd use the left as the past, and the right as the future in the card placement.
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| Nina* |
11 Dec 2004 |
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I've always learned that the left is 'behind' you and the right is 'in front of' you. It is also the right side of you that is the 'acting' side...
That's the way it works best for me, but I have also noticed, as you said, that it can differ from book to book.
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| magpie9 |
12 Dec 2004 |
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I think the important thing to remember with the celtic cross is that there are about 100 different versions of it out there. You can decide which is more comfortable (past/left, future/right or ?) and feels most natural to YOU when you're reading, and do it that way. The cards will cooperate if you are clear in your mind about what each position is.
You can even get reeeal frisky and change the positions up the side to ones that you feel will give you more useful information. })
Have fun, it's your deck, your layout, your reading and all of it is your choice. :D
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| tatsi |
12 Dec 2004 |
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I've always learned that the left is 'behind' you and the right is 'in front of' you. It is also the right side of you that is the 'acting' side...
That's the way it works best for me, but I have also noticed, as you said, that it can differ from book to book.
This is how I learned it. To me it makes sense that the left is 'behind' you and the right is 'in front of' you, but you need to do whatever makes sense and feels right to you.
Most of the time things move from left to right - past to future - like you're reading a book. I know there are a lot of variants on the CC, but I'd use the left as the past, and the right as the future in the card placement.
I never thought about the book analogy, but it makes perfect sense to me.
tatsi
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| contradiction |
12 Dec 2004 |
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i am going to post my variation of the cc, this i developed from personal experience and from a variation i was taught by the friend who got me started. and of course sometimes i read it as a story, without actually having any positional names, (even though i have been told this is not smart).
then if i need more clarification, or more info, or if it just feels right i will reshuffle, the remaining cards, and add a 3,5,or 7 card pull underneath, which is definately read as a story.
3 7
* 8
6**1*2**5 9
* 10
4
1. problem at hand
2. obstacles to solving problem
3.personal (inside) influences
4.outside influences
5.things you have no control over
6.things you do have control over
7.past
8.present
9.immediate future
10. long term future
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| mzoltarp |
12 Dec 2004 |
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I appreciate all of the clarification. I HAD been reading let to right, past to future and was motoring along nicely until I read the Llewellyn book on the court cards and it was presented in reverse. The I rechecked in my other books--many from Llewellyn--and found that there was no consistency but the left to right, past to future seemed to be dominant. Believe me I do understand the need to make tarot one's own and to feel comfotable as a reader, though as someone who has been into tarot for a year while balancing teaching full time, going to college full time, teaching a college class on the side, and raising a delightful little girl with my wife, let's just say my growth with tarot has been in fits. I enjoy this forum and I doubly enjoy how kind and helpful everyone has been. My new word for 2005: namaste!
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| tmgrl2 |
12 Dec 2004 |
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I agree with Maria in terms of link she offered you.
While I am not a fan of learning "keywords" ala Joan Bunning or others...(and it can be helpful to do so at first and for some aspects)...
I do like the way she offers a range of options for each position in the CC...she spends about 20 pages in her book on overall interpretation with wide range for each position.
I have used this most often in my CC study.
terri
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| Alta |
12 Dec 2004 |
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To me it has always seemed natural to do first card, cross card, under, behind, over and in front. Since then I have discovered that those cards get laid in almost every variation of that (except the first two of course) I also find it counter-intuitive to put the future to the left and the the past to the right. But I saw that recently in a book.
I think the trick is, pick one, and do it that way every time you use the CC. Don't do it one way one time and another way another time. Confusion for certain.
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| gargoyle_guarded |
13 Dec 2004 |
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I've also discovered the Celtic Cross has a couple of variations that initially confused me. I picked the one that made the most sense to me and that is the one I stick with. It goes like this....Card 1 and 2 are the heart of the matter, Card 3 is below the heart of the matter and is the past. Card 4 is to the left of the heart of the matter and represents past influences. Card 5 is above the heart of the matter and represents the near future. Card 6 is to the right of the heart of the matter and represents future influences.
Something I've noticed is that the layout of the above spread forms a circle and it is my belief that things always come full circle so this works for me.
Alternate layouts of the CC would seem as if the cards are laid in the form of a blessing...in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. And that makes sense too but hey, I'm not Catholic.
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| MeeWah |
13 Dec 2004 |
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Gargoyle_Guarded's reference to the Catholic blessing resonates, particularly due to the "Cross" design of the spread.
I usually read upward = conscious (Card 3), downward = unconscious; foundation or far past (Card 4), left = immediate past (Card 5), right = future; new situation developing (Card 6) because it makes sense as a natural progression.
The exceptions are when a card or more than one card draws my attention or appears prominent despite the order of appearance.
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| Rosedust |
14 Dec 2004 |
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I've learned the way the significator is looking towards is the future, what lies behind is the way they are looking away from.. :)
but its just a tchnicality, the cards will be placed right when you know wich spread you will use... ;)
Best wishes,
Rosedust
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| RedMaple |
14 Dec 2004 |
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I use the Significator, which is randomly drawn, as the self as you are now. Then the 1 & 2 as what covers and crosses you, the heart of the matter. Then I do the Root (deep past, subconscious, or root of the matter); then What is Behind you (recent past); The Sky or Crown (this can be the general atmostphere, the conscious intent, or a possible future; then to the right, What is Before You - the near future.
I like what happens when you look at the cards from Root to Sky, or from Behind to Before, all of these pass through the Heart.
I also like the idea of using right and left as active and passive - I haven't used that, but I could see it as what's manifested, what's potential, for example.
The right hand pillar for me is How I See Myself in Regard to the question; Home/Environment; Hopes and Fears; Outcome.
In the Outcome position, if there is not a Major Arcana, I pull up to three more cards til one comes up. If no Major comes up, I put those cards back. If a Major comes up, then I see those cards as a progress toward that Major.
I'm not sure how I ended up with this particular spread, I know I took influences from a number of places, and it evolved into this form. I think that's the best way to go -- as the cards and you learn each other, your spreads will reflect what works best for communication.
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| Lillie |
15 Dec 2004 |
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I can agree with just about every thing I have read in this thread.
I also have found many variations on the 'past' and 'future' cards in the Celtic cross. For a while I was confusedby this, but in the end I did what came naturally.
Once I have done the centre cards I do the four that surround them, in this order.
Below. These are the influences that you are moving out of, the influences of the past. Why things have happened and how you felt.
Left. The past itself. What has happened.
Above. The influences you are moving toward. The influences of the future, why things will happen and jow you will feel.
Right. The future. What will happen.
This just seems natural to me, and it suits me.
However, I think the most important thing is to pick the one that feels right and then stick to it.
If you keep chopping and changing it effects your subconcious and effects your reading because you are unsure.
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| mzoltarp |
16 Dec 2004 |
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Lillie,
I pretty much read as you described. I'm learning tarot both intuitively and academically, the latter by reading. It was a series of Llewellyn publications that did a ping pong on the past/future positions so I thought I would leave it up to discussion. My wife reads left/past right/future and the lady at the local metaphysical store reads the opposite way. I definitely plan to stick with left/past right/future. It's more sensical that way.
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The Celtic Cross Confusion thread was originally posted on 11 Dec 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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