Christian and Tarot Reader??? Need Advice

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

souljourney	03 Dec 2004
I guess I'm a bit confused by some things, but let me give background before asking the questions. My husband, (very, very, Christian, well now he's Mormon actually) sees Tarot, Astrology, etc as divination and what is refered to in the bible as "chaldeans" (sp?). He thinks Tarot cards invoke spirits and won't allow a set of cards in the house. (he works out of town, so...) I know...you are thinking "so, why are with this guy?". Another long story (let's just say my religion, etc, etc has shifted dramatically in the last couple years to what I was as a teenager... Pagan/new ageish) Ok, so how do those of you who are Christian, yet read tarot justify being both? Do you use it only for self-growth and not actually ask questions? Do you read for others? I am looking for something to present to said husband so he doesn't see them as bad and evil. I have him ok with Astrology...basically saying is more about looking at what was at the time of birth... and seeing personality traits from it. If any of the follow will help, he's a Libra and his soul number/card is 7 The Chariot. Mine sign is Gemini and soul number/card is 4 The Emperor. Thanks in advance for any advice, etc. SJ

le pendu	03 Dec 2004
Please don't take this in the wrong way, but the Mormons and the use of magic and divination is a topic that I am particularly interested in... You might remind your husband that Joseph Smith, before he wrote the Book of Mormon, was known as a "treasure-seeker". Smith used his seerer stones to locate treasures that were supposedly buried in the hills in upstate New York. In fact, it is well documented that the process he used to "translate the golden tablets" was to take his seer stone(s) and place them in a hat, he would then peer into the hat and the letters of the Book of Mormon would appear, with the translation, and he would read them out loud to David Whitmer. You can read about it here: http://www.irr.org/mit/divination.html There is a wonderful (but difficult to read) book by D. Micheal Quinn, an ex-professor of history at BYU. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1560850892/ref=nosim/aeclectic/ that explores this very subject. Apparently, magic and divination were VERY important aspects to the foundation of the Mormon church. After his death, a medal of the Seal of Solomon was found on Smith's body, and many of the oldest artifacts of the church are inscribed with magical symbols. As far as being Christian and reading tarot, there are many threads here full of thoughtful responses to this question, just do a search for "Christian" and you will easily find hundreds of thoughts on this question. best, robert

April	03 Dec 2004
As a Christian, I agree with your husband to an extent. I believe we do channel a spirit(s) while reading the cards. But I also believe that that spirit IS God. Le Pendu, that was great info and should definately come in handy. What was Joseph Smith doing if not communicating with the "spirit" of God. All of the prophets did it, and people still do today. Some of us just use tools to help us along. I would like to ask your husband a question, but I'm not there, so you ask for me :). Has he ever gone through a rough period in his life and just sat down and randomly opened the Bible. And was the passage that he turned to helpful in any way. Tarot works exactly the same way. Explain to him that it's not like what he's seen in the movies, we're not conjuring up souls or demons to do our bidding. Most people, not only Christians, have no idea what it's all about. There are a few Christian oriented decks out there. Master Tarot and the Jesus Deck come to mind. They might help ease him into the idea. Of course the other possibility is that you could talk until you're blue in the face and he still won't come around. Some people just refuse to be convinced, and your energies might be better spent elsewhere. In that case, keeping it in the closet while he's away isn't going to hurt anyone. Peace, April P.S. Does the Emporor drive the Chariot? :D

HudsonGray	03 Dec 2004
Going with a Christian themed deck may be the best way to smooth things in. There are a lot of angel decks out there, and ones with Christian themes. How can something be bad if it's got angels on it, hey? The Old Testament of the Bible is full of people doing divination that weren't also prophets, so the average person did have access to dreams, tossing 'things', etc. tarot cards developed way afterwards so the bible can't directly say 'cards' anywhere in it (historians can place the cards in the 1400's but they acknowledge that they were around before that, nothing survived of those really old ones though). The cards are what you make of them...whether a connection to something higher than yourself, or a deep connection inside yourself. If they're used for good then they can't be bad.

Umbrae	03 Dec 2004
I think you may want to read this thread..

bodhran	03 Dec 2004
Author Joan Bunning describes the tarot as a tool, just like Dumbo's (Disney's flying elephant) black feather. The feather didn't make him fly, it just gave him the confidence he needed to find his gift within himself. The tarot helps me stop relying on self (ego), and rely more on Self (Spirit - that divine spark we each have within). It is a mirror that allows me to see what is going on in my life, both the good and the bad. There is nothing evil or magic about the cards; they are just tools. Bodhran

Dark Inquisitor	03 Dec 2004
There are plenty of threads around on the subject of Christians & tarot. In your case, you have changed or returned to your previous pagan/ new age orientation and are now hoping you can perhaps change another person. Which may not be possible. If your husband is very committed to his view of his faith , he may not believe any "proofs" you may find. Hopefully he will trust & know that you are a good person and see the good that you do with your cards. Of course, if he won't even allow them in the house that will not be easy. I guess it comes down to either you are in charge of your own faith or he is. Either he is solely in charge of what stays in the house or it is a partnership. A very thorny situation , and tarot is just the tip of that iceburg. You seem to have made your own decisions about it really , and he is not yet caught up. I hope it works out for you. PS- Does he have any inkling he is not really in charge of what is in the house? Lol !! ;)

HearthCricket	03 Dec 2004
Well, I am Christian and I read tarot. I have been reading it for almost as long as I have been alive. It is a part of me. Yes, you could say the two clash, but to me turning my back on something that attracts me and doesn't do me any harm, nor weakens my Christian faith, would be like tossing away a gift that God gave me. I strongly believe that there are many paths to the Divine, to God; be it Hindu, Buddhism, Paganism, Judaism, Christianity, etc., they all lead to the same place. To me tarot is just another path, another way to tap into the Divine. There are so many people, cultures, tribes, creeds, and a blending of all things-this seems very natural to me. Like others have said, try particular decks. Something simple, like Old English, or something like Golden, with all the holy pictures, though he may turn it around and take offense at it. Try the Bohemian Baroque Cats-it is so cute and classy, at the same time. Maybe Gilded-absolutely gorgeous, or possibly one of the Italian decks, like Tarot of the Ren. You could also ask him why he fears tarot so much. Does he believe in it? If he does, why does he think it is evil? If he doesn't, what is he afraid of? What harm can come of it? Just some things to ponder.

Jeanette	03 Dec 2004
Souljourney, I hoped you followed Umbrae's link to a great thread and read all the posts. I know I don't like deceiving people, especially the ones I love, and prefer to be open and honest about what I'm doing in my life. Just as I hope they are being up-front with me. So I don't really recommend hiding your tarot activities. But that doesn't mean you have to bring your decks out whenever you are together if it upsets him; maybe you can both agree to disagree? Marriages are full of compromises, and I think the better the marriage the more flexible and tolerant you have to be of your spouse's differences. After all, this is a person who means a great deal to you and hopefully vice versa. I feel a very deep connection with God working through tarot, and maybe your husband will come to view it as a spiritual path, also.

rota	03 Dec 2004
Dark Inquisitor wrote: ... can perhaps change another person. Which may not be possible. If your husband is very committed to his view of his faith , he may not believe any "proofs" you may find. +++++ I think D.I. may have the right idea here. We humans are awfully good at ignoring logic, reason, and evidence that might be right in front of our faces when we want to hold onto some viewpoint. I think it's more than likely that a difference of opinion over tarot is going to be only one of many differences of opinion that will eventually surface between the two of you. Jeannette points out that a marriage will often carry a set of compromises that the two people eventually arrive at. I'll certainly second that. In this case there doesn't seem to be a right side and a wrong side. It's just going to be a question of how and whether accommodations can be made. Perhaps it will be as simple as pointing out angelic figures in the cards, or finding a deck that's acceptable to both. (The Connolly deck, for one, has really soft-pedalled the Death and Devil cards.) Will you let us know how things go?

MarkMcElroy	04 Dec 2004
I'm a Christian living in the Bible-Belt south, where once someone almost -- almost, but not quite, mind you -- *spat* on me while I was signing books! After years of working with deeply religious people here, my impression is that very few folks who are convinced that Tarot is evil are willing to accept any evidence to the contrary. Faith-based beliefs cannot easily be countered by logical arguments ("How can 78 pieces of mass-produced, laminated cardboard be evil?"). To be fair, though, your husband may be the exeception that proves the rule. In addition to the good information already offered by those who note Joseph Smith's work with divination (both as a treasure seeker and as the scribe of the Book of Mormon), you might point to scriptures which indicate divination clearly played a role in the lives of the people of God: 1) In Levicitus 16, priests cast lots (a form of divination) to select goats for offerings. 2) In Joshua 18, priests cast lots to divide the land among the tribes of Israel. 3) In Nehemiah 10, lots are cast to determine when families were to bring offerings to the house of God. 4) In Acts 1:26, the remaining disciples cast lots to determine who would replace Judas. Especially in the Old Testament, even when *people other than the Israelites* cast lots, it's clear that God was believed to be in charge of the results. God manipulates the outcome of the King of Babylon's divination attempts (Exekiel 21:21) and the sailors who cast lots to determine whether or not Jonah should be tossed overboard (Jonah 1:7). Based purely on scriptural evidence, then: - It was just fine for the Israelites and New Testament Christians to cast lots, as long as they understood the practice of divination was governed by God - Divination as practiced by the "heathen" neighbors of the Israelites was frowned upon or forbidden ... but even when they did it, God controlled the results. I hope this information helps! Be aware, though, that his opposition to your work with Tarot may have other dimensions not really related to whether or not God approves. Using a deck of Tarot cards as a tool for guidance and decision-making is a bold move, and these bold moves threaten those who posess (or who imagine they possess) authority over us. In a strongly patriarchial religious environment -- like the Latter Day Saints church -- a woman bold enough to practice divination for herself (without a dependence on the priesthood) may never be viewed with approval. You're in my thoughts today.

le pendu	04 Dec 2004
souljourney, It's been bugging me since I posted my first reply that I didn't ask you about your knowledge of the Mormon church, or how deeply your husband has come to believe that faith. I'm assuming that he has converted to it, as he probably would not have married you had you not been a member of the church. (Again, I'm assuming you are not a practicing member). There are likely to be issues greater than tarot cards that may develop because of his faith. One has to understand the very basis of the church to see how everything is connected in their faith. In case you are unaware, or others on the board are curious here is a very brief summary: You may have heard the phrase "Our Heavenly Father's Plan"? The Mormons have a unique cosmology. They take very literally that "Man was created in God's image", and that "We are God's *children*". Mormons believe in "Eternal Progression". This means that God continues to grow and develop, just like we do. They believe we are literally the children of our Heavenly Father and (the not very often mentioned) Heavenly Mother. We were all created as "Spirit Children" before coming to this planet in the flesh. They believe that Our Heavenly Father and Mother had their OWN heavenly parents. God the Father, has a God the Father, has a God the Father going back for all eternity. So we have Godly ancestors... and one day, we too, because we are God's children and made in his image, have the *potential* to become gods and create our own spirit children who will one day have their own planet and we will be their God the Father or Heavenly Mother. Our purpose on this planet is choose the right path, meaning following the sacraments and rituals of the church, so that when we die, we will achieve godhood. As you can imagine, one of the requirements for achieving godhood is to be "Sealed in the Temple", a form of a marriage ceremony where a couple is joined "For time and all eternity". Only after performing this ceremony (among others) is it possible to achieve godhood. Only Mormons in good standing are allowed to have the ceremony. So if your husband is a member of the church, and a true believer, it means that he *HAS* to be married in the temple to achieve godhood. He will believe that unless you have married him in the temple your marriage is good *only* until "Death do us part". After death, your marriage will be nulled and he will be free to choose another wife with whom he will be sealed and they will produce spirit children and someday have their own spirit children take fleshly bodies, and they will be "like god". I mention all of this because when being introduced to Mormon docterine, it is spoonfed to you, and often family members who are not mormon have no idea what Mormons really believe. I also mention this because the stronger he believes in the church, the more I think there may be issues that arise greater than your use of tarot cards. As for the rest of us non-Mormons, we will go to a lower level of Heaven, the best we can hope for is to achieve a level similar to angels where we can be the servents of the Gods. The good news is that as long as we have been "good" people, and not rejected the Mormon faith while we are alive, we all will have the chance to learn of "Our Heavenly Father's Plan" after we have died, and still achieve godhood. Please PM me if you have any questions. I sincerely wish you all the best, and hope that you and your husband work past this issue in happiness. robert

contradiction	04 Dec 2004
mark, i could not agree more with your response. i am christian, and consider myself to be fairly strong in my faith, and i could list several pages of references to God's people using divination, dream interpertation, visions, etc...,. my son, and i recently had the same conservation when he asked if the tarot was not originally "evil". my response was to remind him of some of the references in the Bible, and to explain that if i depended on the cards to "magically" tell me something then possiably they could be. but, since i only used them as a tool to focus the gift God gave me, then i did not feel they were. and i agree, some people just will not accept some things they feel are wrong, even if Jesus himself appeared and said it was ok. but, i wish you the best of luck. contradiction

souljourney	04 Dec 2004
Wow everyone, thanks for the responses. Let me address a couple of things...when we met, got married, etc...he was Christian (not any particular denomination). Since I was in my "trying to be Christian" phase this was good. He wanted to find a church we all liked. Had a friend who was Mormon and we tried the church. I did massive research on the net. I liked some of the aspects... not immediate judgement; really, really difficult to go to hell (outer darkness); belief in the spirit exisiting previously; that everyone gets a second chance to learn "the truth"; belief that we all are (at least a little bit) gods; that sacred contracts can be made here; etc. I didn't buy into all of it, and neither did he really. He tends to take what he wants from a religion (denomination)...such as he believes in speaking in tongues and does...but that isn't something the Mormon church does any longer. The verses in the bible he quotes are these ones refering to the Chaldeans (?sp), doing divination, etc. So thank you Mark for specific references I can point out. I guess he is under the assumption (somehow gained in the Bible) that God isn't directing the cards...so if not God, it is therefore some evil/bad spirit. He says God doesn't let us see into our future unless we ask Him or something like that. You all have been reallllly helpful. Thank you so much. Le Pendu... we haven't been sealed and obviously now that won't happen. I actually have not taken my name off the church role yet...but I will soon enough, and yes I guess I did know that stuff going in, but I don't think I was secure enough in ME to say...ok, I don't buy it. I think I was wanting to be like everyone else...be Christian...and try to appease my hubby. Well...I've done a bunch of changing in the last couple years... SJ

Thirteen	04 Dec 2004
I'm not a Christian--but I will repeat some advice that's already been said: don't keep your readings a secret. Tarot Cards can be a game, or they can be a learning experience, one that offers the reader new ways for spiritual growth and insights, no matter their faith or belief system. If this is going to be, or likely to be, anything more than just an amusement to you, then you have to be upfront with your husband. Because it's going to change you more than you think. In fact, from what you've been saying, it would seem that tarot cards are just the lastest step on a new and important spiritual journey for you. This new spirital journey of yours would be difficult for your husband to handle under any circumstances, even if that path was leading you to become more Mormon or a different sect of Christian than he. It's a scary and disquieting thing to see any loved one start to travel a different spiritual path than your own. And when people feel that loved ones are either leaving them, or rocking the boat, or likely to cause them great embarrassment, well, they become understandably stubborn, angry and defensive. The important thing for you to remember, however, is that spiritual journies and spiritual discoveries and developments are difficult enough when you're on your own. They can be next to impossible, muddled and derailed if a family member, out of fear, ignorance or embarrassment, keeps trying to sabotague them. It's not a matter of converting the other person--it's simply a matter of making sure the way is clear for you before setting off on that path. So, before you start seriously reading those cards and possibly going through more spiritual changes, make sure your way is clear. Be honest. Get your husband's blessings or at least his acceptance--or face head-on the fact that you are two very different people. Because once you start down that road, you aren't going to want to deal with any real-world detours. Please do let us know how it all turns out. And the very best of luck!

HearthCricket	04 Dec 2004
You might also want to point out to him, kindly, that tarot cards did not exist during the Biblical times, but did exist long before the Mormon faith! God could not condone tarot, because it did not exist. If he is referring to Biblical references (I would love to know which ones, exactly) that say divining is evil, I guess I would question why he accepts astrology but not tarot. Like you said about his faith, he is picking and choosing what he wants and doesn't want to believe in. Also, Biblically speaking "witches" in the Bible were actually "Wizards" or better worded, "Conjourers", who "fooled the fool." They played tricks, for money, and trapped people into believing things other than the Jewish, and later, Christian faith. Like so many said, you need to be open and be you, and he needs to be him. Marriage is all about compromise and respect!

Thirteen	04 Dec 2004
HearthCricket wrote: Also, Biblically speaking "witches" in the Bible were actually "Wizards" or better worded, "Conjourers", who "fooled the fool." Actually, Biblically speaking, "witches" as in "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" are "poisoners." That was the actual Hebrew word. But king James was paranoid about witches and so when he created his English version of the Bible he insisted that "poisoner" be defined as "witch," and that's the word that has appeared in translations ever since. There is another quote in the old testament against fortune tellers--essentially what the bible is saying in that context is that no one gets to play fortune teller except the priests, most especially not outsiders, folk of other religions and tribes. Not, mind you, that no one period gets to play fortune teller, because clearly the Bible is all in favor of certain folk, Like Joseph the dream interpeter, predicting the future, as he does for Pharoah. I won't debate about who wrote the Bible, but I will say that often, such rules seem double edged. On the one hand, they are likely there to protect tribal members from false prophets and tricksters, from handing over money, etc. to devious foreigners claiming to be able to tell the future. On the other hand, they are likely also there to keep power in the hands of the elite. Jesus, himself, found fault with priestly power, and argued with priests from the persepective of the ordinary man. In the end, it may be wise to warn someone about fooling with fortune telling, but it's hubris, I think, to claim to know which forms of divination the divine will speak though--or who the divine might speak though. A modern day Joseph might well be using tarot cards rather than dreams to tell the future.

mzoltarp	09 Dec 2004
People who fold their arms, stamp their feet and say that tarot is evil--in my opinion--are not open to considering other prespectives. Tarot--like many things--can be used as a tool of evil. Some paint all tarot readers with this brush. Many Christians cannot allow for the possibility of multiple paths of spirituality to God. Heck many Christians cannot agree that they are playing on the same team. As a practicing Catholic, I've been told that I'm not Christian because I'm not born again. Oy vey! As a Catholic, I believe in angels and the intercession of saints and those who have died before us. Could this be communing with spirits? I'd say so. How is that different than tarot? I see precious little difference. I approach tarot not as my life's guide, but as a parallel tool of spirituality. Spirituality is my guide not any one manifestation of it in particular. Absolute adherence to any one belief system has its problems and the exploration of other belief systems has its benefits. I really do not read tarot to tell fortunes but rather as a psychological snapshot of the querent. In short I use tarot for the good of the person and that is the essence of spirituality to do good for others. I wish you luck in convincing your husband, but he may not be open to the notion.

ihcoyc	09 Dec 2004
I'm a Christian and I have no issues with the Tarot. A specifically Christian themed deck, or a traditional Marseilles style with obvious medieval Christian imagery, might be easier to swallow. The Bible is full of people who were drawing lots in order to help them make decisions or to get a feel for God's will. The sailors drew lots to find out that Jonah was shirking his prophet duties. The Apostles drew lots to find out who should replace Judas Iscariot. The Urim and Thummim --- I don't know a great deal about specifically Mormon lore, but I know that these artifacts played a part in the Book of Mormon story --- were in fact used as sacred lots through which God spoke. Reading the Tarot is just a slightly more elaborate method of drawing lots. The images are traditional European Christian images. I have no problems with it.

tarobones	09 Dec 2004
I am a Catholic priest and I also use the Tarot. I know that seems weird, but I enjoy immensely Mark McElroy's website, Rachel Pollack's Shining Tribe Tarot and 78 degrees of wisdom. I know that some people, when using Tarot, use invocations before they do their Tarot work. I can't say to whom they address their invocations, but I know I ask the Holy Spirit to guide us as we use the Tarot to help us focus. Divination is a "conversation with the Divine" as I see it, and we can do Tarot prayerfully--connected to Spirit--or not, as we choose. Regarding the Devil card, I would remind Christians that the Devil appears throughout the bible, many manytimes, but just once in the Tarot. And evil is a reality in this world that we all need to contend with..........there's enough injustice and violence in the world without sincere Christians condemning an entire group of people out of fear and ignorance. I have always found my use of Tarot for meditation to be of enormous help in my spiritual life, as well as an incredibly useful tool for creative writing and thinking. Peace to all............Michael

NightWing	30 Dec 2004
To tarobones- Thanks for speaking out, Father. I'm sure that Catholics and others here found your words reassuring, as well as (perhaps) unexpected. Pity that tarot and other tools have had to be relatively secret in the church, even though so many have found them a useful adjunct to their spiritual lives. Pax Vobiscum.

tarobones	30 Dec 2004
A very deep, very "Catholic", and very long book called "Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermeticism" has the endorsement of Cardinal Hans Urs von Balthasar a noted Catholic theologian and Cardinal of the CHurch. The book also has numerous reviews by well known Catholic priests all praising the work, one has said "it's the last word on wisdom." And another says, "It is without a doubt the most extraordinary work I have ever read. It has tremendous spiritual depth and insight." Now, this book might not be your "cup of tea," but it certainly has "Catholic endorsement." One cannot say, that for Catholic Christians, the Tarot is forbidden. Peace and all good.............Michael

Fudugazi	31 Dec 2004
tarobones wrote: A very deep, very "Catholic", and very long book called "Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermeticism" has the endorsement of Cardinal Hans Urs von Balthasar a noted Catholic theologian and Cardinal of the CHurch. The book also has numerous reviews by well known Catholic priests all praising the work, one has said "it's the last word on wisdom." And another says, "It is without a doubt the most extraordinary work I have ever read. It has tremendous spiritual depth and insight." Now, this book might not be your "cup of tea," but it certainly has "Catholic endorsement." One cannot say, that for Catholic Christians, the Tarot is forbidden. Peace and all good.............Michael I am not a Catholic (or even a Christian), but I was brought up in Catholic schools and I know and love much of what I know of the Church (at least, the modern Church!). One of the nuns who taught me had a Tarot de Marseille. She did not use it to predict, but for meditation, for "connection with our past" (she was quite romantic and loved medieval literature) and for sorting out daily problems. I would never think of questioning either her faith or her good faith! What I notice, is that fundamentalists of all religions (not only Christians) will reject anything that is not strictly in the line of their own interpretation of religion; just as they will reject other religions. For them, God speaks one language, in one single accent, and nothing else is allowed. Fear and intolerance drives them: not God. Fortunately, the vast majority of deep-thinking religious people use their faith to open to the world and to different ways in which God can speak to us. As I said, I am not a Christian, but I find a deep peace in contemplating V-Le Pape's blessing fingers or the 4 evangelists around the World card, just as I find a great spiritual challenge in looking at the XV-Devil card. These are universal word-images of great spiritual value, and I truly believe God speaks through them. Tarotbones, I am glad you spoke out - it is a marvellous thing to think this humble instrument that is the Tarot can link so many different people.

Tsuzuki	12 Mar 2005
Um, wow. Okay, seeing as how I'm technically a Mormon, I think I have a few things to say. First off, if you haven't left yet, don't do it over something as silly as this. Mormonism at its core is about the most open-minded organized religion in the world. I was raised with the stuff, I should know. In fact, we're pretty much allowed to hold any views we want as long as we don't use them to misrepresent official church doctrine. In the words of Brigham Young, "If you can find a truth in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine. We believe it; it is ours; we claim it." That sounds pretty eclectic if you ask me. In fact, that one statement a long time ago inspired me to study astrology, the tarot, and magick. Secondly, like what's already been said, there are already connections to all these various traditions in Mormonism if one bothers to look. As to whether Joseph Smith was personally influenced by the occult ideas floating around at the time, I don't particularly care. All I know is that I find them both to be true, and they mesh. So, Yay! If you're interested, here's a link to a site dedicated to Mormon mysticism. I must admit it's rather amusing to see a devout Mormon praising Crowley's Thoth deck. :P http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/mormonmystic.htm And finally, my brother married a Lutheran, and I'm engaged to a devout Catholic, and my family has no problem with this. But, then again, we're from California. And yeah, tell your husband to do his homework. :P

Alpha-Omega	23 Mar 2005
I am Greek Orthodox and i read tarot mostly for others. The only thing i do for myself is little stuff, basically "what will tommorow bring, or today" Most people think that the tarot has supernatrual powers. But i think otherwise. The Tarot cards is just paper with pictures on it. Tarot is just a tool. Like eye-glasses or your eyes and a heraing-aid for your ears. The Tarot helps us with our "Phychic" aspect of our mind. Tarot is away that our subconsious is able to talks to us. I think that every person is connected to god in someway. God holds all truths and wisdom. So being connected to him he shares the wisdom to us. The tarot is an interpriter between God and man. God and man don't speak the same language, like every person does not speak the same language. The tarot just tells us what god is saying in a way we can understand. The cards is only that, Man has the power, the connection to god. The tarot is just a tool. But it should not be abused like many things man abuses and look what happend to them, We abused the earth and now look at it! Well thats my view.

rabidwolfie	23 Mar 2005
April wrote: In that case, keeping it in the closet while he's away isn't going to hurt anyone. I'm afraid this I have to disagree with. Especially when it comes to any form of christianity. You can tell the truth all your life & you tell one lie & people will lose faith in you. When you're married, it can be even worse. If it is your husband's wish that nothing of the occult be in the house, it's not a good idea to sneak things in anyway. Not only is it disrespectful of his wishes but it can also lead to trouble farther down the road. Now it may be possible that he will refuse to budge on tarot no matter what, or he may eventually come around, but at the very least, make it clear that you wish to continue but will not bring the cards out while he is around. But also, no one really likes lies, but it's especially bad with christians. It is considered a sin by many of them. Should you lie about having tarot cards, not only are you disrespecting him but also his beliefs, regardless of whether or not you share them. Marriage is supposed to be an institution, a compromise where each of you love & respect one another. Despite what they show on tv (which tends to annoy me) neither of you SHOULD be in charge. It SHOULD be an equal partnership. However, my beliefs do not recognise government sanctioned marriages as they are a christian-based ritual, so who am I to talk. LMAO

Junia	24 Mar 2005
I would say that you are faced with a HUGE problem. The LDS Church is AGAINST THE TAROT--no two ways about it. AAs children, we were not allowed to own a deck of playing cards (which the Tarot descended from). I asked a Mormon friend of mine who is 70+ years old recently if that was still the rule and she said, "It must be because my son, who is 50, got very angry at his mother for playing gin rummy with her/his grandkids." My SO and I have searched The Book of Mormon (which to Mormons is more important to and out-Trumps the Bible every time), The Doctrine & Covenants and other church documents for doctrinal references but have so far not been able to find any that directly mention the Tarot. However, in The Bishop's Handbook which you will never see a copy of unless you are a) an LDS Bishop or b) steal one is dead set against The Tarot, Ouija Boards and has a list of organizations and practices that you may not belong to or participate in to keep your membership. No, I didn't steal one, but my SO was the Bishop's clerk in a Ward for several years. You may ask your Bishop in your Ward (which I wouldn't recommend since your husband, "is the priesthood holder and head of the house" and he will have to have a little talk w/him about what you are doing) about whether or not you may read the Tarot. Or you could search the main LDS website or archives at BYU for information. Yes, Mormons out of state are more liberal. I can tell you that I married in the Episcopal Church here and one member of my family said, "I guess she is ashamed to invite us since she joined that 'icky old Episcopal Church'". I would never advise anyone to get a divorce, but that is the LDS Church's stance if your mate (male or female) goes against church ruling. You are advised to leave them and protect your children against their evil. I grew up LDS (my family lineage from the original pioneers who crossed the plains here because of their faith). My SO grew up in Oklahoma and graduated from BYU, served an LDS Mission, etc. etc. All of the advice is good here except to tell you all that nothing that The Bible says will help. Mormons are a whole kettle of different fish unto themselves. Mormons believe that The Bible is believable only to the extent that it has been correctly translated. The Book of Mormon is their main book and I had my Bishop tell me not to bother reading the Bible because The Book of Mormon was more important. By the way, they don't care a fig what other Christians believe. Their way is the only way and they do not even accept anyone else's baptism. If you have been baptised in another church, you must be baptised in the Mormon Church because the other is invalid. My former Bishop served two missions and has worked far up in the government here in appointed position which Mormons also do here in Utah. We live under a "theocracy". There are constant quarrels about state legislators writing laws based on their religious (Mormon) beliefs. It is very different living in the Mecca or Rome of the LDS Church for Mormons than outside of the state, and some Bishops are reasonable (until you get a different one); but the rule against Tarot reading usually still stands. I have a Connolly Deck (among others). The workbook discusses Christian Prayers) which will go with any Rider-Waite Deck published. I am sorry to sound so hard lined, but this is the way it is. If you decide to leave the LDS Church they will try first to re-fellowship you. If that doesn't work and you still want to leave, this is the procedure: a) they call a "Bishop's Court" which you and your husband may attend; b) at this Court they ask your reasons for leaving and ask you to reconsider, then if you still want to go through with it; c) you will likely receive a letter (complete with a picture of Jesus Christ on it) from the Church Office Building in Utah asking you to change your mind, repent and come back; d) you will be excommunicated for apostacy which to Mormons means having your baptism revoked and your name supposedly removed from the records (which for genealogical purposes never really happens). Your birth dates, join date, baptismal date, marriage information, children's information, etc. stays in the archives. That is the way it is I've gone through this many times w/many people. This process is very damaging and hurtful. As for keeping this secret from your husband, I would never advise that. At any time, he can talk to the Bishop about this (and then depending on your Bishop) and the above process is started w/out your request to leave. The above process and procedure is the same for adulterers, fornicators, apostates or anyone who does not follow the prescribed rules. It is also all written up in a neat little handbook and follows a rigid form. You never HAVE TO attend and I would advise against it if you decide to leave. It is at best embarrassing and in its ugliest form is cruelty beyond belief. I have a cousin who literally was mentally tortured a number of years ago and still suffers from what they did to her when they excommuicated her and numerous others. The guilt gets us. What can we say and a burning hell is much preferable to being cast into "outer darkness" for time and all eternity. Old lonely and dark. It is basically solitary confinement w/the Devil in Charge. You'll obviously have to work it out with your husband. That is the most important thing. But, Mormons will never openly (with the exception of a few [who then face censure and possible excommunication]) support your Tarot reading despite what you may hereafter get in response to this. The larger problem--and I am afraid to ask-- is do you have children with this man? I know that this may create a malestorm of discussion, please don't kill the messenger (me). I didn't make up their rules and I no longer am involved with the Church although I TRY to be respectful of their beliefs. You are in a very difficult position here. If you can get outside counseling (not from a Mormon Therapist), that is what you really need. In marriages there are so many other issues battles for control, etc. that need to be addressed, that I would say this is symptomatic but not the whole problem. You both are different people now. All my prayers and love to you. Junia

Tsuzuki	24 Mar 2005
Junia wrote: Yes, Mormons out of state are more liberal. <> My experiences growing up have been nothing like some of the stories I hear coming out of Utah. I never liked Utah, though. I've always blamed the culture for everything wrong in the church. I've done enough study of the religion itself to find it faultless. And I already have enough knowledge to defend myself in case anyone tries to question my interests. <>

Junia	24 Mar 2005
Obviously the problem is the relationship w/her husband as I said. However, doctrine is doctrine and if your future husband or your brother's wife decide to join the LDS Church you will find that they will have to be rebaptized--no matter which state you make your residence. As I said, don't kill the messenger. P.S. I also was a Mormon in Idaho and Washington (Seattle area) and my SO grew up Mormon in Oklahoma the Doctrine is the same everywhere.

Tsuzuki	25 Mar 2005
Well, most don't seem to study the doctrine deep enough, leadership included (and that may be where the whole problem lies). I take solace in the doctrine of free agency and my ability to lead myself. These will trump anything anyone can throw at me. As long as I obey my conscience I have nothing to worry about. And as far my future wife is concerned, I kind of like her the way she is. I've actually toyed with the idea of enjoying a Catholic fellowship in addition to a Mormon one. Let's see how long I can pull that off. ;) I don't believe that professed religion in this life has anything to do with a reward in the next. I learned this from Mormonism.

rabidwolfie	25 Mar 2005
Forgive me for interjecting, but I feel the need to point out this conversation is heading in a dangerous direction. Religion & politics are very dangerous subjects in which perfectly rational people will suddenly become closed-minded & open mouthed with no real connection between the two. We need to bring this back around to tarot & farther away from the mormon religion itself.

Tsuzuki	25 Mar 2005
Agreed.

The Christian and Tarot Reader??? Need Advice thread was originally posted on 03 Dec 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.