Negativity with the Reader

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

WhiteRaven	22 Dec 2004
We all carry individual energies. We all have different Auras and they change as we change. If one carries negative energy, do you think that it would come out in their readings? For example, if I'm subconsciously blocked and don't realize that I carry a lot of anger within, would/could this affect the way I read and see and feel the cards? Has anyone felt that just maybe, after a series of what you perceive to be negative spreads for various different people, it's really you're own issues that are coming into your interps and you don't even realize it?

smokey	23 Dec 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: We all carry individual energies. We all have different Auras and they change as we change. If one carries negative energy, do you think that it would come out in their readings? Oh yes, without a doubt I believe they would, IMHO. I do recall a disgruntled client or two way -back when approaching me regarding something or other like this,and when I did some deep-down soul searching at that time;I did recall my 'dark side' (for lack of a better word?) present during the unfortunate souls' readings. I made this up to them, and from then on, asked for white light to banish any/all negativity beforehand;even if I Wasn't aware of any around at that time, Just to be on the safe side!

contrascarpe	23 Dec 2004
Yes, negative energy on the reader's part can be a real problem. Not just negative energy, but weak energy as well. A couple of months back I showed up at my gig and as the day progressed, it was becoming evident that I was not feeling very well (as it turned out I had an infection and I was getting a fever). Luckily I didn't have too many readings that day. My last reading was for a woman and apparently I hit on some things (maybe I was delirious and channelling, lol) but I remember thinking it wasn't my strongest reading and up to par with my standards. Now, on to the negativity - I was asked to come in a couple of weeks ago on a workday after my work had finished. I had a really, really, REALLY bad day at work and came in to the readings mad at the world. My first thought as I set up and went through my routine that this wasn't fair to the clients, so I sat and made a concentrated effort to ground myself. Something clicked and I had two of the best readings I have ever done. smokey's white light practice is a good one, as is meditation. I think in my case, I was helped by the fact that after I was grounded, I went downstairs to talk with the owners of the shop (who are my friends) and Gardener, and we had a few laughs. By the time the seekers came, my negativity was well gone. Now, negative energy on the part of the seeker is another issue altogether! Dan

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
contrascarpe wrote: Yes, negative energy on the reader's part can be a real problem. Not just negative energy, but weak energy as well. A couple of months back I showed up at my gig and as the day progressed, it was becoming evident that I was not feeling very well (as it turned out I had an infection and I was getting a fever). Luckily I didn't have too many readings that day. My last reading was for a woman and apparently I hit on some things (maybe I was delirious and channelling, lol) but I remember thinking it wasn't my strongest reading and up to par with my standards. Now, on to the negativity - I was asked to come in a couple of weeks ago on a workday after my work had finished. I had a really, really, REALLY bad day at work and came in to the readings mad at the world. My first thought as I set up and went through my routine that this wasn't fair to the clients, so I sat and made a concentrated effort to ground myself. Something clicked and I had two of the best readings I have ever done. smokey's white light practice is a good one, as is meditation. I think in my case, I was helped by the fact that after I was grounded, I went downstairs to talk with the owners of the shop (who are my friends) and Gardener, and we had a few laughs. By the time the seekers came, my negativity was well gone. Now, negative energy on the part of the seeker is another issue altogether! Dan Agreed about Querant...and also agree on the grounding...very much agreed!! BUT...(don't you love those "buts"...no pun intended)..what if you don't realize you are carrying "anger" within yourself. What if this is an emotional "block" that your conscious is ignoring, yet it's embedded in your subconscious...what if it comes out as a "passive agressive" ingredient into your readings and you don't realize it. Yet, it seems that you can't see anything positive in anyones readings...what if there is a "trigger" of some sort...someone comes in and asks about an issue that YOU had a similar incident and subconsciously you throw your anger/pain/sorrow into a spread when there are things that would mean otherwise in the querants spread...What if the Querant even said to you..."this doesn't make sense"...yet it did to YOU because of subconscious issues..that you're not seeing or admitting ...are you following me? I'm on my first coffee and those that know me, know I can get really confusing at this time of morning..LOL

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
smokey wrote: Oh yes, without a doubt I believe they would, IMHO. I do recall a disgruntled client or two way -back when approaching me regarding something or other like this,and when I did some deep-down soul searching at that time;I did recall my 'dark side' (for lack of a better word?) present during the unfortunate souls' readings. I made this up to them, and from then on, asked for white light to banish any/all negativity beforehand;even if I Wasn't aware of any around at that time, Just to be on the safe side! Because I am in a very intense healing process and am NOW aware that I carry much anger within, I do ground myself and envision a veil of white that surrounds me...however the veil is not too thick..it has to allow for the energies of the querant to come through...it just keeps me on track...but that's because I've went through an intensive spirtual healing and I am aware of my own issues. I've also dug and brought what was in the subconscious out to the forefront. But there are MANY that have not gone through that and don't realize the anger/pain and/or sorrow that they carry and it's those readers that I'm talking about. Even if you ground yourself...but don't realize what you carry in your subconscious...it could still come out in your readings. If you are aware, like Dan said, he knew he had had a bad day and was fearful of bringing that negative energy into the readings, then one can protect themselves and ground knowing it will work...but those that don't know..or are in full denial..then what?

contrascarpe	23 Dec 2004
WR - Thanks for reminding me that I need coffee (gasp, how could I forget?). I guess I never thought about repressed issues. Personally I believe that if one goes through the proper grounding process before the first reading, and then attempts to ground again between readings (especially if it was a difficult client), then the grounding should dissolve some of the repressed feelings. It can still come out, especially if the seeker brings up an issue which reminds you of something that hits close to home for you. I am still finding my path in regards to my readings. I still have a bad habit of absorbing the energy of the seeker, especially if I sense strong psychic attachment on their part. I try to bring a gentle, and often humorous, approach to my readings, mainly to calm them down and settle their spirit. Every once in awhile though I will get one who latches on to my spirit (I believe they are called "psychic vampires") and my nerves get shot. Proper grounding can prevent a lot of problems (nice little analogy to my regular job in the electrical field - proper grounding can save your life, hehe). Dan

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
contrascarpe wrote: I guess I never thought about repressed issues. Personally I believe that if one goes through the proper grounding process before the first reading, and then attempts to ground again between readings (especially if it was a difficult client), then the grounding should dissolve some of the repressed feelings. It can still come out, especially if the seeker brings up an issue which reminds you of something that hits close to home for you. I think grounding helps only those things that we are aware of...if it's a strong repression...and we are not aware of it...then I feel there could be still some problems when trying to read for anyone. Especially when the querant is saying.."No...this doesn't make sense" and the reader becomes down right stubborn about it and refuses to acknowledge anything the reader is saying just because they are so certain that they are right...yet the reader doesn't really know the issue or the people etc..in the querants life..and when it comes down to saying one thing about someone and the querant is saying no no no...I know the person better than that...I would think that the Reader is either on a HUGE ego trip or they are really in denial of their own personal issues and it's coming out towards their querants...and it's even worse when the Reader is going my intuition alone and not by the actual meanings of the cards.....this can really get hairy if the Reader is repressing emotional blockages.

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
It's also a hard task to be able to admit that you're off (as a reader) when the querant is quite sure you are off...The ego gets a real puncture and not many of us are willing to admit that they are wrong...I've seen that and have had the experience of that just recently.

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
One more question for thought On an average...how many readers become readers because an issue in their lives brought them to the tarot in the first place.....

Aoife	23 Dec 2004
Thank you for the thread, WhiteRaven - this touches on issues that have long caused me concern. Reading through threads in the Reading Exchange and Your Readings, in many if not most cases one can learn far more about the reader than the querent. There’s simply no escaping the ubiquitous question “Why do we read?” We spend much time here discussing cards and meanings and interpretations.... but far less on the Event and the Process of reading. And far too little time exploring the inherent responsibilities in the reader/querent relationship. Most people in mainstream personal-helping work are required to submit both Self and work to ongoing scrutiny... not just to aid the development of skill but also to ensure that personal issues are identified and their effects minimised. And still our ‘issues’ can slip through on occasion. It would be naive to assume that any of us are free from ‘issues’ that can influence and skew our understanding.... no matter how well utilised and developed our grounding practices. Used well, this process is tremendously supportive... albeit challenging. Personally, I would like to see something of this style happening more at AT. The support here is unquestioningly good but the extent of helpful challenging seems minimal. I entirely understand why..... it is undoubtedly risky for the challenger, who may fear that their comments are seen to be negative rather than a positive challenge to growth or new thinking. It is also very difficult to be on the receiving end of ‘criticism’, no matter how constructive. But we do ourselves no favours by ducking these issues... and duck them we undoubtedly do.

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
LOL...even when confronted with the very "high" possibility that the Reader is WRONG...they will deny it and come back even harder and it can get scary at times...as a Querant, after presenting the fact that they are WRONG and getting a back lash that the Reader is RIGHT...as Querant..you tend to back away and crawl into a shell afterwards and not even TRY to argue your point. This forum is for learning purposes and if a Querant honestly thinks the reading is right off the wall then I believe it's their responsiblity to say so. If the Reader is not prepared to accept that critisim then they should not even offer readings till their "egos" come back down to earth....and those that don't know that they have this problem and a Querant comes to them and says..."hey...this doesn't make any sense"..then I think that Reader should sit back and take a look at the pattern, or rather if there is a pattern of negative reactions or interps and try and find the root of their own issues and see how that is reflecting their readings and interps. It's a responsible attitude to have as a Reader. If you can't handle that responsibility then you shouldn't be reading for other people and should stick with reading for yourself..it's safer. Querants can be wounded deeply by words that Readers come out with...especially after telling the Reader they were wrong and the Reader comes back even more agressive... Querants also have to be prepared for the answers that they seek....this is another topic that I will possibly touch on in the New Year. This topic is about the Reader for now...simply because of some past experiences and this is really bothering me. I can not help to wonder why a Reader would be stubborn enough not to actually "listen" to what the Querant has to say. AFter all...the Querant knows a heck of a lot more about themselves and the people around them and the situation than the Reader does. I've come across many in this forum that don't want to know anything about the situation because they are afraid of being influenced...I sometimes disagree with this. I feel a Reader NEEDS to know some basic things because if we don't know ANYTHING..we could go anywhere with a spread of cards. Sometimes the issue at hand needs more details because of the complexity of the said issue that is being addressed. It's an ego trip with the Reader thinks they can see and know all without knowing anything. Sorry, I've had many reading done for me lately and the one's that don't want to know anything are the ones that are completely off the wall...and the one's that I have told what's going on..give me a much more acurate reading. Not knowing your own issues, not being able to accept critisism on your interps, getting even more stubborn when confronted with the reality that you were wrong in a reading...is not being a responsible reader nor a good reader IMHO. I'm one of the lucky ones because I have been through a Spiritual healing and I know where my foundation of my anger lies, and I work on that. With this knowledge of myself, I can catch myself and say wait a minute...this isn't really about the Querant...and I will pull back...but this is ONLY because I know what's inside of me.. one year ago I did not realize what I do about my blockages...and I'm sure my readings back then were quite off at times, simply because of anger that I had stuck way back in my subconscious and had not dealt with. Now, how many Readers in this forum have had that advantage and again...how many readers in this forum discovered Tarot through an issue of their own and never really dealt with the issues, yet read for others.... If you're a reader and you're not getting the feedback you want and you're not listening...you're not doing yourself any favors...time to take a look inside to see where all of it is coming from.

tzuki	23 Dec 2004
I decided to read 'professionally' because I had been to see too many very poor Tarot readers & knew I could provide a better service! Or does that sound arrogant? I'm sorry if it does, because that was my experience & came from a desire to give people a valid reading if they felt they wanted a Tarot reading. Or to be honest & say, I could not read for them, or to give them a full refund if they were not helped by their reading. At the moment, I am not reading at all, I'm in a dormant period, psychically. A bit like an injured athelete! I also knew a fellow reader whose cards insisted on telling him about himself, not his clients, 'til he realised it was time to give himself a much-needed holiday!

Aoife	23 Dec 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: LOL...even when confronted with the very "high" possibility that the Reader is WRONG...they will deny it and come back even harder and it can get scary at times...as a Querant, after presenting the fact that they are WRONG and getting a back lash that the Reader is RIGHT...as Querant..you tend to back away and crawl into a shell afterwards and not even TRY to argue your point. This forum is for learning purposes and if a Querant honestly thinks the reading is right off the wall then I believe it's their responsiblity to say so. If the Reader is not prepared to accept that critisim then they should not even offer readings till their "egos" come back down to earth....and those that don't know that they have this problem and a Querant comes to them and says..."hey...this doesn't make any sense"..then I think that Reader should sit back and take a look at the pattern, or rather if there is a pattern of negative reactions or interps and try and find the root of their own issues and see how that is reflecting their readings and interps. It's a responsible attitude to have as a Reader. If you can't handle that responsibility then you shouldn't be reading for other people and should stick with reading for yourself..it's safer. Querants can be wounded deeply by words that Readers come out with...especially after telling the Reader they were wrong and the Reader comes back even more agressive... Querants also have to be prepared for the answers that they seek....this is another topic that I will possibly touch on in the New Year. This topic is about the Reader for now...simply because of some past experiences and this is really bothering me. I can not help to wonder why a Reader would be stubborn enough not to actually "listen" to what the Querant has to say. AFter all...the Querant knows a heck of a lot more about themselves and the people around them and the situation than the Reader does. I've come across many in this forum that don't want to know anything about the situation because they are afraid of being influenced...I sometimes disagree with this. I feel a Reader NEEDS to know some basic things because if we don't know ANYTHING..we could go anywhere with a spread of cards. Sometimes the issue at hand needs more details because of the complexity of the said issue that is being addressed. It's an ego trip with the Reader thinks they can see and know all without knowing anything. Sorry, I've had many reading done for me lately and the one's that don't want to know anything are the ones that are completely off the wall...and the one's that I have told what's going on..give me a much more acurate reading. Not knowing your own issues, not being able to accept critisism on your interps, getting even more stubborn when confronted with the reality that you were wrong in a reading...is not being a responsible reader nor a good reader IMHO. I'm one of the lucky ones because I have been through a Spiritual healing and I know where my foundation of my anger lies, and I work on that. With this knowledge of myself, I can catch myself and say wait a minute...this isn't really about the Querant...and I will pull back...but this is ONLY because I know what's inside of me.. one year ago I did not realize what I do about my blockages...and I'm sure my readings back then were quite off at times, simply because of anger that I had stuck way back in my subconscious and had not dealt with. Now, how many Readers in this forum have had that advantage and again...how many readers in this forum discovered Tarot through an issue of their own and never really dealt with the issues, yet read for others.... If you're a reader and you're not getting the feedback you want and you're not listening...you're not doing yourself any favors...time to take a look inside to see where all of it is coming from. WhiteRaven, none of us are free from issues.... our personalities are dynamic, constantly assailed by influences from outside and within. The best that we can do is try to identify them... then integrate or minimise them. Querents sometimes are in denial about issues... which can seem glaringly obvious to others, with or without the aid of cards, lol. I do however believe that the better readers follow the querent's flow.... pointing up areas of interest or conflict or ambivalence. Ultimately the Querent is free to decide with what... and to what extent they want to engage. Unless readers are willing to explore the boundaries, there is a risk that readings can become facile and vague. Ultimately, I'm uncomfortable with 'shoulds' and 'oughts'. Who can truly say they hold any of the answers? I certainly can't, but I sure as hell have a lot of questions.

Aoife	23 Dec 2004
Hi tzuki! Welcome to AT and thank you for your refreshingly honest comments!

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
I'm speaking of patterns here..I'm not talking about the "odd" off the wall reading. There are obvious patterns when one is not cleared themselves of their own emotional issues. Of course things change...good grief..what would the world be like if there was no change..and yes, we do all have to deal with this on a daily basis...that's a reality that all reader have. I'm talking about when you, as a reader, are getting negative feedback a lot...and you're ignoring the problem and carry on as if there is nothing wrong with the way you are interping things...if you're off the wall ...there is obviously something wrong and it can't only be that ALL your Querants are ignoring "your" truth of the cards...or rather..."your" interps of the cards...I'm speaking about a Reader that gets bad feedback that will refuse to acknowledge that they are WRONG...and then you have to wonder why this Reader would think that they could or would be right ALL the time! I had someone this week describe my son to me with what they "thought" they saw in the spread. Now, I'm sorry, I know my son better than anyone else on this planet...and this person was WAY off. And no...I'm not a Mother that thinks her kids are all angels...etc. Now, I told this reader that they were wrong...they came back even more agressive and basically implied that I was lying about my son...that I didn't want to acknowledge this..I was blind to the fact...when I KNOW my son not to be like this at all...and I AM 100% sure on this for many reasons...yet the Reader was not interested in the reasons..the reader saw it in the cards..and the reader was not wrong... I don't buy that. There were other things in this spread that I pointed out and again...I felt such an agressiveness from the reader when they replied back to the feedback that I was at a loss of words. I haven't spoken to them since. I went to great detail as well...trying to explain in my feedback why it wasn't like that and it seemed to blow right over this person's head. I couldn't figure it out...seriously...then I got curious and I did some investigating...I saw that I wasn't the only one that this person has blatantly argued with about negative feedback they got. So then I felt that this person must have some issues...that or they are just plain stubborn and don't want to acknowledge they were WRONG... I've done it myself...I've sat there and got my nose out of joint because of a negative feedback and I went right back into the thread defending what I believed to be true......so it's happened with me and I'm honest enough to admit it...but I also see where I went wrong and I try very hard not to do that anymore.

smokey	23 Dec 2004
tzuki wrote: At the moment, I am not reading at all, I'm in a dormant period I also knew a fellow reader whose cards insisted on telling him about himself, not his clients, 'til he realised it was time to give himself a much-needed holiday! ((All apologies for veering a sec, but I just hadta' let Tzuki know how thankfull I am for realizing I'm not alone in this situation @ t/moment!)) Blessings...

WhiteRaven	23 Dec 2004
For the most part I'm not reading now either...just the odd one here and there that are SIMPLE and not having ANYTHING to do with relationships because I'm totally burnt out on that right now...Plus, there are things surfacing for myself with Christmas right around the corner and I'm not emotionally in the right state of mind to read someone else's emotional problems clearly and be able to give a proper reading...It's nice to know that there are others that admit to this and back off to clear themselves before trying to read. :)

April	23 Dec 2004
WhiteRaven, I think all you can say about a reader the one you described is that they are bad at it. A good reader HAS to listen and hear what the querant is saying. And they must accept that on occasion even a good reader will be wrong. I take comfort in the thought that a bad reader will either have to get with the program soon, or they will be out of business. You can't be bad at what you do forever, eventually it will catch up with you. Readers who are stubborn and egotistical will get what is coming to them. Word of mouth advertising works both ways, tell your friends he sucks. To answer your first question, yes, a reader can definately let their negativity affect the way they interperet the cards. We've all seen this happen in our lives without Tarot cards. Someone, maybe ourselves on occasion, take offence at a comment that was completely harmless when uttered. They were having a bad day, or they just spend much of their life being offended because they like it or they're conceited... I don't know why. Which brings me to the rant I really wanted to get to. You wanna know why a lot of querants don't correct their reader? It's because they are so afraid of offending someone they would rather sit quitely not getting to the bottom of they're problem than risk a fight. Eliminating the taking of offence is my new crusade. It is a worthless emotion and a waste of energy that smacks of pompous arragance. Most of the time offence was not intended and when it is intended it only comments on the person doing the offending. Querants, do your readers a favor and tell the friggin' truth! If they're interpretation makes no sense at all tell them! If they persist in ignoring you, walk away (and get your money back if you can.) Those who are easily offended or think they are to good to listen to you will eventually be weeded out. When enough people contradict them, they will either be forced to start listening, or they will be driven out of business. Those of us who can take it will only become better readers for having listened to you. We can't get better unless you tell us how. Peace, April P.S. Tzuki, I think that is a fantastic reason for going professional.

WhiteRaven	24 Dec 2004
April wrote: [snip] Which brings me to the rant I really wanted to get to. You wanna know why a lot of querants don't correct their reader? It's because they are so afraid of offending someone they would rather sit quitely not getting to the bottom of they're problem than risk a fight. Eliminating the taking of offence is my new crusade. [snip] If the Readers in this forum are not prepared to expect and accept bad feedback then perhaps they shouldn't try and read in this forum. AT is a group of people that are learning "together" and that entails receiving and giving "constructive" criticism. For the most part, in this forum, Readers are Querants and Querants are Readers. So one would expect the same from another..however, it doesn't seem to work like this with some. I know that I am here at AT to LEARN and to try and SHARE whatever I can to help others LEARN. The only way someone will LEARN is if someone else points out the weaknesses and NOT ALWAYS the strengths. Sure it's sometimes not easy to swallow...but I have to ask..would a reader prefer to go on their merry way totally clueless... Querants in this forum need to remember that they are readers too...and if YOU think that the member that is reading for you is WRONG..well...wouldn't YOU want to know you're wrong?....and if you wouldn't...then I believe you should really take a look at the reason why you would rather NOT know.

Aoife	24 Dec 2004
I think people learn best when they feel safe... safe in the knowledge that they can make mistakes... that those giving the feedback will be particularly careful to make it constructive... that there are no hidden agendas... that it is a teamwork rather than competitive process. WhiteRaven, I share some of your frustration, but the tone of your post feels angry, dictatorial and judgemental. And I think this works against what you are hoping can be achieved.

WhiteRaven	24 Dec 2004
This is what happens in a forum or anything else that has to do with being online and there is a lack of tone and expression involved. One has to try and imagine what the person is really trying to portray. Of course I am frustrated. Obviously, otherwise I don't think I would have started this thread in the first place. But that does not mean I'm bitter. Oh well...I think "most" people in this forum know who I am and what I am like..sorry if you think otherwise. If it's being judgemental to expect honesty from people in this forum then I am terribly sorry. Who's being "judgemental" now? :confused:

Aoife	24 Dec 2004
WhiteRaven, I was trying to demonstrate constructive criticism. As I said earlier, it's tough... and it takes an element of trust to listen and consider what's being said without presuming ulterior motives. If you want others to engage in the process you're advocating, you need to demonstrate that you're willing and able to do so too.

WhiteRaven	24 Dec 2004
Aoife wrote: WhiteRaven, I was trying to demonstrate constructive criticism. As I said earlier, it's tough... and it takes an element of trust to listen and consider what's being said without presuming ulterior motives. If you want others to engage in the process you're advocating, you need to demonstrate that you're willing and able to do so too. I don't think I quite follow you. I have given constructive criticism to many people in this forum. And I've openly admitted in this forum that I have already done what I, myself, am complaining about within this thread. So I don't understand what you are trying to imply here. Obviously, I'm not the only one that feels this way. There are others that have posted in this thread with much the same complaint. I still don't understand. I think I "demonstrate" and "participate" quite a bit in this forum. I have to agree with April on a lot of what she posted. I, as a querant that posted this thread, had no idea how to deal with the Reader that was ignoring my feedback. But that will not stop me from giving "bad" feedback (I'd rather call it "contructive criticism") to someone else and I expect quite the same from others. You've lost me.

Aoife	24 Dec 2004
Okay... I fedback to you that I felt your post [quoted below]felt angry, dictatorial and judgemental. Anger.... from the overall tone and the use of capital letters in certain words. Achieves an emphasis but taken as a whole, the underlying mood feels angry. Dictatorial.... You make a lot of definitive statements. e.g. Quote: The only way someone will LEARN is if someone else points out the weaknesses and NOT ALWAYS the strengths. and Quote: Querants in this forum need to remember that they are readers too...and if YOU think that the member that is reading for you is WRONG..well...wouldn't YOU want to know you're wrong?....and if you wouldn't...then I believe you should really take a look at the reason why you would rather NOT know. Judgemental.... Quote: If the Readers in this forum are not prepared to expect and accept bad feedback then perhaps they shouldn't try and read in this forum. The point I am making is.... I largely agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but your tone is not conducive to the feelings of safety that I talked about earlier, and which I believe are important in this type of learning.

WhiteRaven	24 Dec 2004
I'm not going to bite the bait...I'm sorry...this is Christmas Eve here and in some places it's Christmas Day... So have a very Merry Christmas everyone. And thank you for your participation in this thread. I realize now that I am NOT alone in the way I feel and the expressions within this thread are much appreciated. I shall now return to the regular scheduled program.....that is....to "learn". :)

Moongold	24 Dec 2004
Dear Jo ~ This is very interesting thread, raising issues that I've often wondered about being a restless soul myself and having experienced a challenging few years. I work in human services and know that Aoife is correct when she says that professionals in human services are often required to undergo professional supervision (usually a reflective examination of practice), personal therapy (to know the self) and professionald development. I do all of these things - bar the therapy but I have a kind of spiritual counselling which I use from time to time. We all have issues at times. I always pray prior to a reading - something like the prayer of St. Francis - and ask to be used as a channel. I try to remove myself from the reading as much as possible. By that I mean - being aware of my own issues and trying not to let them impact on the reading. Sometimes I've failed there. I usually leave a reading overnight to be reread before posting. That way I can clearly pick up any potential problems. I study the work of readers I respect and very experienced readers to see how they do it. One thing I have noticed is that they often write simply and to the point. I used to think this was too little and general but don't think so now. By so doing they leave room for people to move. Their readings or interpretations are often like the breeze - touch gently but cover the likely senstivities. One can respond as one wishes or needs. With regard to feedback, I think Aoife gave you feedback very directly but respectfully. She said she respects the spirit of what you said but not the way you said it. Very gently I would agree with her. She has been as direct with you as you are sometimes with others, and indeed, have been in this post about a reading you received from another member. I have sometimes been the same, Jo. It comes with being Sagittarian and a Chariot Soul. By saying the latter, I am simply laughing somewhat ruefully. Our sensitivity is both gift and curse. For myself, it's the cusp on which I grow. You're a sensitive, perceptive and sharp reader, and student of people and of Tarot, who will only get better. The challenge for you is to look at this feedback and ask what you can actually take away. I would like people to give me such direct and useful feedback. Holmes has done this for me in readings and a couple of others here have as well. The critical point is whether it should be public or not. I think we have all been saying lately that we would like the feedback in public readings to be more direct. I certainly would but the people do that is really important. There are lots of growing edges for us all here. Be well, and have a good Christmas your bright self :)

WhiteRaven	24 Dec 2004
I think so where the whole point of this thread got lost. I am in the process of sending a quick email out to someone and then I am out the door for Christmas Eve and Day at my mothers with my kids. I will say this very quickly...this isn't about "feedback"...this is about a reader that gets feedback from a querant and argues their point...not even taking into consideration what the querant is trying to say. This is my point. Not the feedback...the reactions to the feedback...and I will say this...I was not harsh with the person I gave as an example...and I tried, in great detail, to explain why I didn't see that this reading "fit" me. I even told them that I thought the cards were addressing an entirely different person...but when the reader comes back aggressive and stands their ground when you know that they are wrong and have been gentle...there's something wrong...and this is what I'm getting at. Yes, there is a way of giving feedback...this has nothing to do with what I've been trying to say in the thread. Somewhere...the topic itself has got lost. Merry Christmas everyone...I'm outta here to spend some long awaited time with all my kids at once. :):):) I even get to see my 21 yr old son!!!!!!!!! WOW :)

Moongold	24 Dec 2004
WhiteRaven wrote: ds. I will say this very quickly...this isn't about "feedback"...this is about a reader that gets feedback from a querant and argues their point...not even taking into consideration what the querant is trying to say. This is my point. Not the feedback...the reactions to the feedback... ... what I'm getting at. Yes, there is a way of giving feedback...this has nothing to do with what I've been trying to say in the thread. Somewhere...the topic itself has got lost. Hi WhiteRaven-Jo ~ Many of our threads wander but I think this thread is essentially about feedback which you seem to have acknowledged in the paragraph above. I should say that feedback should be a process. a dialogue. It rarely should be a one way street. We imply that it is a two way process when we say "Reading Exchange". I think it is a fairly significant topic actually. A relationship between Reader and Querent is required and defined in the Reading Exchange and implied in Your Readings. Feedback is a two way exchange and something seems to have gone astray in the example cited. Later the thread does become involved in discussing the expectations of both Readers and Querents and how they might be met. It is a very relevant issue and has implications not only for readings but for discussion and debate throughout the forums. Blessings ...

WhiteRaven	25 Dec 2004
Moongold wrote: Hi WhiteRaven-Jo ~ Many of our threads wander but I think this thread is essentially about feedback which you seem to have acknowledged in the paragraph above. I should say that feedback should be a process. a dialogue. It rarely should be a one way street. We imply that it is a two way process when we say "Reading Exchange". I think it is a fairly significant topic actually. A relationship between Reader and Querent is required and defined in the Reading Exchange and implied in Your Readings. Feedback is a two way exchange and something seems to have gone astray in the example cited. Later the thread does become involved in discussing the expectations of both Readers and Querents and how they might be met. It is a very relevant issue and has implications not only for readings but for discussion and debate throughout the forums. Blessings ... The point of this thread has been lost... Completely for that matter...so I've decided to leave it because it's totally off the topic at this point.

bladeraven	30 Dec 2004
One thing I've begun to do is I simply don't want to know what I'm reading for..my biggest rule...don't tell me the story before the reading..wait till I lay the cards out and read them, THEN tell me what's going on...had some interesting personal xp with getting mixed readings that way.

jmd	30 Dec 2004
So this was the thread referred to in another... I had not read it until just now. I tend to see how WhiteRaven says that originally this thread is not at all about any Quote: "feedback"...this is about a reader that gets feedback from a querant and argues their point...not even taking into consideration what the querant is trying to say' ... perhaps even more poignantly expressed in the opening post that also asks a variety of questions. Essentially, it seems to me that the opening questions have to do more with what possibly plays through the reader when giving a reading, how one may mitigate against this, and what happens when the reader is told, either directly or in other ways, that the reading just ain't right (and is possibly more a reflection of their own state or situation). Though I agree wholeheartedly that a reader, as a person, has their own personal situations playing in to their being, this does not necessitate that it comes to the fore in a reading. Similarly, if I talk to someone of their own situation, I may also reflect on my own (if appropriate), but am otherwise focussed on theirs. Of course, this calls to mind that one is mindful of one's own specific situation, and that there is a recognition that what plays in to the reading at hand is truly what is the reading at hand, rather than using (inadvertantly) the reading as a means to treat the readee (querant) as one's own personal psychologist as one reads the cards as though they were inkblots. I personally think that most of us are most of the time able to carry through readings without our own personal situations playing in... and that most also have the tenacity to recognise when our own states are such that reading for another may not be really feasible. Similarly, I would likewise claim that most of us are capable of undertaking our normal work/studies/personal lives... but there are times when one needs to retreat, when one needs to take a break, when one needs the solace of others.

Fudugazi	30 Dec 2004
Jean-Michel, I would quote the whole of your post - it is so pertinent. I think most people who read do take care to separate their own issues and fragilities from their readings - they learn to shield themselves and their querents. It is the same with all "advice" professions. I visited detainees and POWs for many years, I know how important it is to create that "creative detachment" as I called it - a space where one can engage with the other without judging him, focussed on him, and not briging one's own little problems into the relationship. It protects both parties. A good reader will do just that- for her own, as well as for her querent's sake. Nevertheless, I do think there are readers who are not as responsible as they should be. I have not expericened any on this forum, but on a few of occasions in the past 10 years I have been made uncomfortable or annoyed by readers bringing in their personal beliefs or troubles into a reading. Readers have a personal responsibility to be honest but not aggressive; to respect their querent's beliefs, and not push a personal belief system on them. Even if it feels right to say "your guardian angel is protecting you", for people who don't believe in guardian angels it will sound at best like tosh. It's a good rule of thumb to tread carefully there: I met a reader who would always enquire about that type of belief in her sitters before she would utter them herself as part of her reading. Readers also have a huge responsibility, when they are going through a bad patch themselves, or have unresolved issues, to learn that vital detachment and shielding. But I believe it is part of the learning process, and an experienced reader will not bring their own life into a reading, or will quickly recognise it when they do. I would say, also, when faced with a querent who just won't listen, I personally just let go and let it rest. People can only learn what they are capable of learning at any one time. There are some people who go for readings, over and over, hoping for a solution to their problems, hoping for another answer, a magic answer that will make it all right. A friend of mine went through such a period after her husband left her with their 3 children. She was so raw, she only wanted reassurance. When a reader would say- "he's not coming back, he's left for good, go and find a job" she would storm out and call me and say "don't go to such-and such - he's got big personal problems, he can't detach". If an intuitive reader meets one of those querents, the kindest thing to say is: I cannot read for you and tell you anything you don't know already - the solution is in yourself.

Moongold	30 Dec 2004
There is an interesting question about power here as well. How much power does the Reader have and how much does the Querent have? I guess in one way it could be argued that both have power but often people who seek readings are vulnerable. I work in a place which uses complementary therapies, Once a practitioner told a young, vulerable woman that there was something the matter with her aura. This had a really negative effect on the young woman who knew little about auras and was detoxing from various drugs. She was powerless to query the remark but fortunately asked someone else who followed it up. This kind of thing would rarely happen now. It is difficult to add much more to what has already been covered. One can only make an informed choice about Tarot readers if one knows a little or has good advisors. Otherwise do what you do if you experience someone else giving you advice in a way that is challenging. You can turn off or leave. Giving a response at the time is sometimes not possible for any number of reasons. It is a little difficult here because it is quite public, although the Reading Exchange is not open to non registered members. There are responsibilities for both parties although some are more aware of them than others and it often takes time for people to develop the confidence to challenge or query someone with apparent authority.

The Negativity with the Reader thread was originally posted on 22 Dec 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.